The Shining Hosts - Way of the Wicked Gameplay (Inactive)

Game Master Dennis Harry

Sad, but I understand. Momentum is hard to build up again once it gets lost.

I hear we're back!?

I hear we're back!?

We indeed are but I will be creating a whole new thread, feel free to post whatever you like here. In fact, this might be the best place for us to discuss getting everything up and running plot wise for the new thread.

Huh. But I wasn’t coming back for Way of the Wicked….!?!

Huh. But I wasn’t coming back for Way of the Wicked….!?!

That post was meant for Grumble :-)

I do indeed have OTHER news, I'll PM you in a few.

I only came here because the *thread* appeared in my Campaign Tab….

@Doomed: Care to play Eberron with me and whoever else Storyteller has gathered?

@Doomed: Care to play Eberron with me and whoever else Storyteller has gathered?

Hey DH, you're certainly welcome if you'd like to play. That thread won't be up for a few days. If you're interested, I'll PM you the link when it's ready.

I only came here because the *thread* appeared in my Campaign Tab….

Ah!

@Doomed: Care to play Eberron with me and whoever else Storyteller has gathered?

Sounds fun. What's the story?

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

@Doomed: Care to play Eberron with me and whoever else Storyteller has gathered?

Sounds fun. What's the story?

I have to go back to the last set of posts and see where I want to pick it up. Last time around I ran two tables one operating IN Sharn and one operating OUTSIDE of Sharn. I was planning on converging the two threads to run some of the old 3ED modules. The plan is still to run those modules. I just need to figure out where I left off.

I believe that you also had an old character in that game DH. I don't recall why you dropped off at the time but by the end you were not playing any longer. You can dust that character off or make a new one, up to you.

The one returning Character is a Warforged Magus (Mindblade) 5.

Which character was I playing? I'm drawing a blank.

Aerin

Based on the Discussion Thread, you withdrew on January 1, 2020 but I don't recall why.

EDIT: Found your PM!

I keep meaning to jump back into that game, but with so many players the posts pile up fast and I feel like I'm not able to reply fast enough to be engaged. Also, I'm just not thrilled with my character. I think it would probably be best if I dropped out of that game since I keep falling behind.

At the time I had combined the tables (was about to split the tables out once more) but with 10 or so PCs, I get why you were getting frustrated. This time around it's a 5 PC game so that should not be an issue. However, if you want to run a new PC, that's perfectly fine.

Huh. No idea. I remember liking that game.
I don't think I want to play Aerin again though. Life Shamans are hard to play in PBP games. There's a lot to keep track of, and constantly having to remind people of their healing and positioning is annoying. I'll figure out a new character.

For Way of the Wicked, Jack has zero magic items. I'm not sure how that happened, but by 7th level I should probably have a few. Want me to do normal WBL shopping, or handle it another way.

Huh. No idea. I remember liking that game.

I don't think I want to play Aerin again though. Life Shamans are hard to play in PBP games. There's a lot to keep track of, and constantly having to remind people of their healing and positioning is annoying. I'll figure out a new character.

For Way of the Wicked, Jack has zero magic items. I'm not sure how that happened, but by 7th level I should probably have a few. Want me to do normal WBL shopping, or handle it another way.

Pick the carcasses of the prior PCs! I believe they should have some items that Grumblejack would find useful. :)

You and Aurex recovering them was going to be part of the narrative bridging us from the old thread to the new thread anyway.

EDIT: Oh and see above the edit of my prior post with the rationale for why you exited the game the first time.

I remember now! That game was a flood. I was having a hard time checking Paizo every day because of how busy life was at the time, and I'd consistently end up 20-30 posts behind. It didn't mesh well with a character design that required a fair amount of micromanaging.

A smaller game with a more straightforward concept should work great.

BRB, Jack's going grave robbing!

I remember now! That game was a flood. I was having a hard time checking Paizo every day because of how busy life was at the time, and I'd consistently end up 20-30 posts behind. It didn't mesh well with a character design that required a fair amount of micromanaging.

A smaller game with a more straightforward concept should work great.

BRB, Jack's going grave robbing!

One caveat, Soren and Lord Havelyn are both still alive. Anyone else is fair game.

Here's the loot I can use from previous characters. Any vetos?

Cloak of Resistance +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2

Circlet of Disguise
Gloves of Recon
Sleeves of Many Garments
Aegis of Recovery

Bag of Holding
Traveler's Anytool
Wand of Infernal Healing
Swan Boat Feather Token
Frost Ward Gel
Fire Ward Gel
Soul Soap

There's also a bunch of alchemical stuff and minor potions.

I figure the rest could have been sold for upkeep and supplies for the Horn. Everyone else might be dead, but Jack is still working for the cause.

Grumble Jack wrote:

I remember now! That game was a flood. I was having a hard time checking Paizo every day because of how busy life was at the time, and I'd consistently end up 20-30 posts behind. It didn't mesh well with a character design that required a fair amount of micromanaging.

A smaller game with a more straightforward concept should work great.

BRB, Jack's going grave robbing!

One caveat, Soren and Lord Havelyn are both still alive. Anyone else is fair game.

Oh good, they were my favorite characters from the previous game.

Here's the loot I can use from previous characters. Any vetos?

Cloak of Resistance +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2

Circlet of Disguise
Gloves of Recon
Sleeves of Many Garments
Aegis of Recovery

Bag of Holding
Traveler's Anytool
Wand of Infernal Healing
Swan Boat Feather Token
Frost Ward Gel
Fire Ward Gel
Soul Soap

There's also a bunch of alchemical stuff and minor potions.

I figure the rest could have been sold for upkeep and supplies for the Horn. Everyone else might be dead, but Jack is still working for the cause.

\

No objection, but I presume that Circlet of Disguise is probably the same Iron Circlet you already possess allowing you to Masquerade as Sir Jack Balin.

There should also be some Loot available once the Horn has been conquered.

If I am not mistaken, there should also be a Dragonbane Greatsword that the PCs captured from Kumanda.

I stand corrected! The loot acquired from the Boggards.

Greatsword +3 - Bane vs. Dragons.
Amulet Natural Armor +2
Leather Armor +2.

Add that to your list. That Boggard was a big bastard so his armor would likely re-size for you.

I presume that Circlet of Disguise is probably the same Iron Circlet you already possess allowing you to Masquerade as Sir Jack Balin.

Nope! Sir Jack is my Social Guise from Vigilante. I killed him and stole his identity. I can pretend to be him with zero magical assistance. No idea how that actually works, the rules are unclear. I assume there's some minor shapeshifting going on. There's really no other way to explain it.

As a note, I found a Vigilante archetype called the Splintersoul that's exactly what we were discussing. It's specifically for multiclass vigilantes with alignment restrictions. We handled it exactly the way RAW does.

When being Sir Jack, he loses all Antipaladin abilities, so his saves are lower, and he's not nearly as scary. He also loses Fiendish Boon, so no Raaven, and he loses his immunity to disease effects, which I think means Sir Jack suffers the full effects of Cacodaemonia (the cacodaemon disease that lets Grumble communicate with Raaven telepathically).

I also removed Grumble's more monstrous physical traits when he's being Sir Jack, so I lose vestigial wings, prehensile tail, and bite attack.

The end result is that Sir Jack is quite a bit less powerful than Grumble, but I'm fine with that. I think he's still going to be plenty capable as Sir Jack, and it will make the transformations much more impressive and intense.

Grumble is a monster. He might be the most powerful melee character I've ever built. You should take a look at his sheet just so none of the bullshit I'm going to pull surprises you.

I stand corrected! The loot acquired from the Boggards.

Greatsword +3 - Bane vs. Dragons.
Amulet Natural Armor +2
Leather Armor +2.

Add that to your list. That Boggard was a big bastard so his armor would likely re-size for you.

I'll take the sword. It'll work for his Sir Jack guise.

Grumble's natural armor is +3 from Ogrekin. Dex isn't high enough to make Leather Armor +2 better than Full Plate.

the Shining Host wrote:

I presume that Circlet of Disguise is probably the same Iron Circlet you already possess allowing you to Masquerade as Sir Jack Balin.

Nope! Sir Jack is my Social Guise from Vigilante. I killed him and stole his identity. I can pretend to be him with zero magical assistance. No idea how that actually works, the rules are unclear. I assume there's some minor shapeshifting going on. There's really no other way to explain it.

As a note, I found a Vigilante archetype called the Splintersoul that's exactly what we were discussing. It's specifically for multiclass vigilantes with alignment restrictions. We handled it exactly the way RAW does.

When being Sir Jack, he loses all Antipaladin abilities, so his saves are lower, and he's not nearly as scary. He also loses Fiendish Boon, so no Raaven, and he loses his immunity to disease effects, which I think means Sir Jack suffers the full effects of Cacodaemonia (the cacodaemon disease that lets Grumble communicate with Raaven telepathically).

I also removed Grumble's more monstrous physical traits when he's being Sir Jack, so I lose vestigial wings, prehensile tail, and bite attack.

The end result is that Sir Jack is quite a bit less powerful than Grumble, but I'm fine with that. I think he's still going to be plenty capable as Sir Jack, and it will make the transformations much more impressive and intense.

Grumble is a monster. He might be the most powerful melee character I've ever built. You should take a look at his sheet just so none of the b&@+*@!# I'm going to pull surprises you.

Huh, maybe he didn't give you an Iron Circlet then because of your Vigilante abilities? Truthfully, its a minor point I don't feel like diving into the old thread to discover. Well, you have one now! See the Recruitment Thread as to how this item differs from the Hat of Disguise (it's better).

Oh I'm fine with Monsters. Nothing more fun than PCs tanking through shit, especially when they hit brick walls, you'll hit a few! I ran an Epic Level campaign to Level 37 in 3.5 and I did a second one to Level 25 in 3.5 so I'm no stranger to PCs building ridiculous Heroes, or in this case, Villains.

the Shining Host wrote:

I stand corrected! The loot acquired from the Boggards.

Greatsword +3 - Bane vs. Dragons.
Amulet Natural Armor +2
Leather Armor +2.

Add that to your list. That Boggard was a big bastard so his armor would likely re-size for you.

I'll take the sword. It'll work for his Sir Jack guise.

Grumble's natural armor is +3 from Ogrekin. Dex isn't high enough to make Leather Armor +2 better than Full Plate.

Makes sense.

I decided to lean into the transformation angle and picked up the Magical Child archetype for Vigilante. So now Jack's change into Grumble is explicitly magical complete with Sailor Moon transformation sequence.

The archetype also comes with a Familiar, which I kinda hate. It's stuck at first level, and I already have Raaven.

Would you allow me to take a feat to combine Fiendish Boon and Call Familiar? That would

I remember there's a similar feat for multiclass paladins to combine their mount and familiar abilities, and use the paladin's total hit dice for advancement, but I'm not seeing it for Antipaladins.

This would also allow Raaven to not be instantly banished when Grumble turns into Sir Jack.

I decided to lean into the transformation angle and picked up the Magical Child archetype for Vigilante. So now Jack's change into Grumble is explicitly magical complete with Sailor Moon transformation sequence.

The archetype also comes with a Familiar, which I kinda hate. It's stuck at first level, and I already have Raaven.

Would you allow me to take a feat to combine Fiendish Boon and Call Familiar? That would

I remember there's a similar feat for multiclass paladins to combine their mount and familiar abilities, and use the paladin's total hit dice for advancement, but I'm not seeing it for Antipaladins.

This would also allow Raaven to not be instantly banished when Grumble turns into Sir Jack.

You're taking Vigilante as your 7th Level Class selection correct (though I suppose taking that class at 6th level makes the build make a bit more sense but as you're starting at 7th it's no harm no foul exactly how you build)? How about swap out Cornugon Smash for Improved Familiar? The Cacodaemon Daemon is ON the improved familiar list RAW. That allows him to function as both your Fiendish Boon selectin AND your Familiar selection. Not sure if him being a Familiar as well as the Fiendishly Bonded creature creates any synergies, but it certainly resolves you dilemma without breaking character creation.

The drawback is that you need to wait till 9th Level to get Cornugon Smash. Though you may have had your eye on something else already at that level and the answer may be that this particular Feat shall just elude you.

Grumble Jack wrote:

I decided to lean into the transformation angle and picked up the Magical Child archetype for Vigilante. So now Jack's change into Grumble is explicitly magical complete with Sailor Moon transformation sequence.

The archetype also comes with a Familiar, which I kinda hate. It's stuck at first level, and I already have Raaven.

Would you allow me to take a feat to combine Fiendish Boon and Call Familiar? That would

I remember there's a similar feat for multiclass paladins to combine their mount and familiar abilities, and use the paladin's total hit dice for advancement, but I'm not seeing it for Antipaladins.

This would also allow Raaven to not be instantly banished when Grumble turns into Sir Jack.

You're taking Vigilante as your 7th Level Class selection correct (though I suppose taking that class at 6th level makes the build make a bit more sense but as you're starting at 7th it's no harm no foul exactly how you build)? How about swap out Cornugon Smash for Improved Familiar? The Cacodaemon Daemon is ON the improved familiar list RAW. That allows him to function as both your Fiendish Boon selectin AND your Familiar selection. Not sure if him being a Familiar as well as the Fiendishly Bonded creature creates any synergies, but it certainly resolves you dilemma without breaking character creation.

The drawback is that you need to wait till 9th Level to get Cornugon Smash. Though you may have had your eye on something else already at that level and the answer may be that this particular Feat shall just elude you.

I took Vigilante after killing Sir Balin at the end of Cardinal Thorn's training sequence. Pretty sure that was 3rd level. I could take my 1st level of vigilante and improved familar then. It would mean Raaven used to be some other kind of familiar, but with the way Fiendish Boon works, that makes total sense, He's a shapeshifter, and he's going to keep changing into new creatures every two levels from now on.

There's not really any synergies. It just makes him a slightly better, more adaptable Fiendish Boon than usual, and keeps him from being lower than the power curve due to multiclassing.

All done. The big change for Raaven is that now he can use Shield Other on Jack.

@Storyteller: Re: Eberron - to be honest, I’d be less up for picking up where I left off 9 years ago, and much more comfortable starting again from level 1. Even though I left early on…at level…1.

And from memory I think my reasons for leaving were the same as Doomed mentioned - too many posts, too many characters, but also for me, with a lot of jarring thematic dissimilarities between them. Though part of that could have been my Vigilante Warforged with an omnicidal psychopath as an alter ego he was at war with… ;)

Been reading and noticed that you restarted. The image of Grumblejack punishing in the name of the moon makes me giggle.

Been reading and noticed that you restarted. The image of Grumblejack punishing in the name of the moon makes me giggle.

I will be opening a new thread but certainly feel free to read this one as it's the "history" of the game so to speak.

@Storyteller: Re: Eberron - to be honest, I’d be less up for picking up where I left off 9 years ago, and much more comfortable starting again from level 1. Even though I left early on…at level…1.

And from memory I think my reasons for leaving were the same as Doomed mentioned - too many posts, too many characters, but also for me, with a lot of jarring thematic dissimilarities between them. Though part of that could have been my Vigilante Warforged with an omnicidal psychopath as an alter ego he was at war with… ;)

Up to you if you don't want to play, but I will be starting at 5th.

The reasons for you leaving last time won't be present, 1 thread and 5 players, that's it.

Huh, maybe he didn't give you an Iron Circlet then because of your Vigilante abilities? Truthfully, its a minor point I don't feel like diving into the old thread to discover. Well, you have one now! See the Recruitment Thread as to how this item differs from the Hat of Disguise (it's better).

I'm not finding the info about the circlet. Can't find it in recruitment, and none of the previous players wrote down anything about it other than "hat of disguise"

@DH: I think Storyteller describes the Iron Circlet in the current Recruitment thread HERE

@DH: I think Storyteller describes the Iron Circlet in the current Recruitment thread HERE

Thank you!

Hey Shadow, what's your ruling on how Aura of Cowardice interacts with Intimidate? By RAW there's zero synergy, but that seems like an oversight to me.

Hey Shadow, what's your ruling on how Aura of Cowardice interacts with Intimidate? By RAW there's zero synergy, but that seems like an oversight to me.

I'll have to think on it, never really considered it before as I've never played an Anti-Paladin.

I'll share my thoughts on it at some point in the next few days, I won't have the mental capacity to do so until tomorrow after my pup passes.

Take care of yourself.

Take care of yourself.

Let's RP Grumble back to Farholde, I'll bring you into the new thread from here.

I missed playing this big dumb a+@~~*@.

Agreed, it's a shame we couldn't at least get Nate and Aurex back but I don't think any of the old players are even ON the boards any longer based on my searching of their old profiles. However, fresh new blood will hopefully propel us to finish this damned thing.

Right now though, I'm headed to bed.

Some thoughts about introductions-

Jack has had plenty of time to establish his Vigilante guise in Farholde.

With the way the abilities work, Grumble should be a local legend at this point, treated like a cross between a cryptid and a serial killer.

It's also well known that Sir Balin is in town hunting him. If you'd like to include that info in the new group's initial Knowledge Local and Diplomacy roles as they head into town, feel free.

Feel free to make up names for the locals to call him. Sir Balin calls him the Devil of Branderscar, but Grumble isn't exactly good at PR, so the locals are going to call him whatever they want. I'm leaving towards the Fifth Horseman as a "superhero name."

Some thoughts about introductions-

Jack has had plenty of time to establish his Vigilante guise in Farholde.

With the way the abilities work, Grumble should be a local legend at this point, treated like a cross between a cryptid and a serial killer.

It's also well known that Sir Balin is in town hunting him. If you'd like to include that info in the new group's initial Knowledge Local and Diplomacy roles as they head into town, feel free.

Feel free to make up names for the locals to call him. Sir Balin calls him the Devil of Branderscar, but Grumble isn't exactly good at PR, so the locals are going to call him whatever they want. I'm leaving towards the Fifth Horseman as a "superhero name."

Agreed, I am going to have you IN Farhodle waiting for backup for at least 60 days.

I do sooo love the idea of your alter ego searching for your dual identity, I would love to do a campaign around just that, with a group playing the Heroes attempting to assist Sir Jack.

I'll push forward on the confrontation between Jack and Aurex this evening or tomorrow evening.

I'll push forward on the confrontation between Jack and Aurex this evening or tomorrow evening.

IF you manage to overcome Aurex, any interest in dipping into that Dragon Rider class that Nate had?

IF you lose, you'll need to defer to the Dragon, at least for a while.

Or you can just agree to disagree, we shall see.

IF you manage to overcome Aurex, any interest in dipping into that Dragon Rider class that Nate had?

I don't think I'm doing anymore class dips until after 9th level. Currently I'm planning on going into Hellknight.

I have a free Trait I haven't picked. I'm thinking I might take the one that lets my Cohort be 1 level behind me, and taking Vile Leadership. Aurex seems like he'd make a great Cohort. What do you think?

the Shining Host wrote:

IF you manage to overcome Aurex, any interest in dipping into that Dragon Rider class that Nate had?

I don't think I'm doing anymore class dips until after 9th level. Currently I'm planning on going into Hellknight.

I have a free Trait I haven't picked. I'm thinking I might take the one that lets my Cohort be 1 level behind me, and taking Vile Leadership. Aurex seems like he'd make a great Cohort. What do you think?

That certainly makes sense!

I do sooo love the idea of your alter ego searching for your dual identity, I would love to do a campaign around just that, with a group playing the Heroes attempting to assist Sir Jack.

If you're running the adventure path as written, I know that eventually we're going to have to defend the Horn from nosy adventuring groups.

It would be pretty fun to have a group contact Sir Balin to try to enlist his help, or something like that.

Grumble Jack wrote:

the Shining Host wrote:

IF you manage to overcome Aurex, any interest in dipping into that Dragon Rider class that Nate had?

I don't think I'm doing anymore class dips until after 9th level. Currently I'm planning on going into Hellknight.

I have a free Trait I haven't picked. I'm thinking I might take the one that lets my Cohort be 1 level behind me, and taking Vile Leadership. Aurex seems like he'd make a great Cohort. What do you think?

That certainly makes sense!

Alright, I shuffled things around. I dropped a couple of Sphere abilities to take the Leadership Sphere (cohort package), and the Advanced Cohorts talent (it's a Legendary talent, so it requires GM approval, but it does exactly what we're talking about so I figured you'd be fine with it).

Here's the gist-

Aurex becomes my Cohort (assuming I beat him). He'd be a 6 Hit Dice dragon that would always act on my initiative, and would gain a couple bonus feats and stat increases. I'm happy to re-stat him, but I'd kinda prefer to have you keep running him as an NPC. I like the way you do his personality, and I'm already juggling Grumble and Raaven.

6 HD Red Dragons are usually Small size, so we'd need to come up with some reason he's larger, but still so weak. Not sure how it was explained by his connection to Nate. Is he cursed? Did losing Nate weaken him?

Grumble now counts as having Leadership, but only has a Cohort. He won't get Followers unless I spend another Sphere talent in it. The upside is that I can switch out my Cohorts by spending 8 hours in a population center (or near Aurex's den) and Recruiting.

I don't know if it will come up often, but having a small stable of rotating Cohorts that I can draw on when Aurex isn't ideal to have around is pretty cool.

Stated up the new improved Aurex. Feel free to copy the stat block and tweak whatever you want.

I took a Wyrmling Red Dragon, reduced it by 1 HD down to 6, then increased it's size to Large.

The attribute bonuses from going from Small to Large were just about the same as the bonuses granted by the Leadership sphere, so I didn't add those. I also swapped out Improved Initiative for Flyby Attack (since as a cohort he'll always act on my initiative).

Making him Large makes him a bit more powerful than a 6 HD Cohort should be, but Jack has the Leadership trait that's supposed to add 1 level to my Cohort's max level. I think it roughly evens out. I don't think a Large 6 HD dragon is more powerful than a 6 HD character class levels.

He's supposed to get a couple of Sphere talents too, but I think I'll save that for after Jack's had some time to train him.