The mayor is "scheduled" to give them 6k apiece at the conclusion of the book. He could easily advance that money now. He could also fund some additional equipment. "Because once you guys deal with this Skinsaw Sihedron problem, I've got another situation that calls for people of your unique abilities..."
He could even spring for raise dead (perhaps your players don't want their race and abilities changed via reincarnate.) The city still doesn't know what or who Xanesha is (what did your pc's know before they got to the clock tower?) and speak with dead doesn't answer all questions, etc. 10k (for the raise dead spells) isn't that much money if it gets him motivated agents (vengeance angle for the pc's) to deal with someone who probably still plans on sacrificing him! And also gets him agents who will get people to stop whining to him about this Turtleback Ferry nonsense. My take on the Mayor is/was that he is self-centered and conniving - he cares very much about not being sacrificed but doesn't care at all about Turtleback Ferry. So in my run through, he was anxious to get the pc's out of town since they are a reminder of a major scandal in his government (Ironbriar) and to shut up all the people clamoring for him to deal with the reports about the Black Arrows. "See? I did something. Now, lets get back to planning next week's party."
Unasked for/unwanted advice: your group could use an NPC companion or cohort to get it some additional action economy. Xanesha is the point in the campaign where a lot of save or die (be knocked out of the fight) powers start to be a regular occurrence. If one pc fails a save, the other is in REAL trouble.
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Unasked for/unwanted advice: your group could use an NPC companion or cohort to get it some additional action economy. Xanesha is the point in the campaign where a lot of save or die (be knocked out of the fight) powers start to be a regular occurrence. If one pc fails a save, the other is in REAL trouble.
Lovely advice. Thank you very much :)
They have an animal companion, and a custom made monster thing that I gave them that is still a hatchling right now. They will have the monster when we next play. I have been going too slow with his growing up as I sorted out what stats I want him to have and such.
I just finished reading Sins of the Saviors, and I agree with the failing saves observation. I worry about that big time. I may need to attach an NPC from Turtleback or something.
Again, thank you for the advice. That helps a lot. I'll have the mayor pitch in more money with the understanding that they stop Xenesha and take care of his "other problem".
Question to see if this has happened to anyone else.
My party has cleansed Foxglove manner of it's haunt, and is currently level 7 in Mag. They found the deed to the Foxglove manner and decided to claim it as their own, along with the townhouse. I cannot find any reason, outside the Brotherhood of Seven, for them to not be able to maintain the property...provided they pay taxes and for upkeep.
There is nothing indicating that the haunt will come back once exorcised, and the players have thoroughly researched the houses history. Two of them have knowledge engineering, and they are willing to hire and care after (in the meta, with stat sheets) several npcs on the property.
The group is NG and CG, I cannot find anything they are doing to be wrong or out of alignment.
They actually have plans to expand on the house if they ever have down time, adding on some places to craft, a garden, and some small housing for servants and the like....and they already sold or burned all of the prior owners paintings since they all seemed to have bad mojo attached to it.
They also contracted the Sand point Glassworks for a large order to replace the old stained glass that was depicting nasty lich work.
So...has anyone else had something like this happen?
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So my PCs are likely going to find the Seven's Sawmill next session. They captured Nualia and, the fools that they are, brought her to Magnimar for trial. Where the judge assigned to the case just so happened to be Justice Ironbriar.
I'm planning to have her join Justice Ironbriar at the Sawmill, along with of all people Shayliss Vinder. One of my PCs took up with Shayliss and abandoned her somewhat callously. Shayliss ran away to Magnimar, having been, like Nualia, shamed by the residents of Sandpoint for her illicit love affair.
Off stage, Nualia takes Shayliss under her wing in Magnimar and brings her over to worship Lamashtu . The child Shayliss bears in her womb from the affair has become a monstrosity touched by Lamashtu. My campaign got a little soapy. It's been fun. Gonna be an interesting social encounter, if nothing else.
I'd like to level Nualia a bit but avoid turning the fight into a TPK. As written though, it honestly doesn't seem that difficult? Any suggestions as to how many levels to add, and any particular skills you'd add? I'm thinking a level, maybe two max. And I might give Shayliss a cleric level too..
Nualias goal is to become a full fledged demon, having her be a Succubus at this point (depending on how much game time has passed) would not be beyond reason or overbearing.
You could, instead, have Nuelia not be in the encounter and put in Shayliss in there instead, even having the meeting be about the birth of the demon spawned child. Having a group of PCs witness a demonic birthing ritual where they walk in as the child pops out would be one hell of a way to kick off a night!
In theory ownership of Foxglove Manor and the Townhouse should pass to Aldern's two sisters (who currently live in Korvosa.) It's up to you how much of a deal you want to make that. (I could very easily imagine them wishing to wash their hands of the manor completely.)
They plan on squatting at the least, except the one ranger, who would rather make lodgings in the nearby woods.
Well, if they're planning on keeping it, I imagine they're going to need some "proof" that Aldern sold it to them or otherwise legally passed on ownership to them. (I imagine Magnimar has some sort of laws on the books preventing someone from breaking into someone else's house, finding the deed and then claiming that that house is theirs.)
My first party did end up squatting in the Townhouse, but they took the time to forge a letter from Aldern stating that the party's noble-born fighter (and past acquaintance of Aldern's) had been put in charge of his affairs while he was out of town. (Remember, Ironbriar posted a couple of Faceless Stalkers in the Townhouse to keep up the charade that Aldern was still alive/not a ghoul. Why he did that AND had the house boarded up is one of those things that doesn't make a lot of sense in the AP. I've left out the "boarded up" part in both of my run-throughs.)
I ended up sending a group of Skinsaw Cultists backed up by the Scarecrow to try to murder them in their sleep (Ironbriar is keeping watch on the place and the AP mentions he had copies made of the keys.) However, they were smart/paranoid enough to set watches and detected the Cultists sneaking in and fought them off. (Also, a Flesh Golem is a pretty underwhelming foe against an alchemist.)
I plan on doing something very similar, we seem to be in the same mindset!
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My party is based in the Lost Coast area, but has so far only been in a homebrew adventure and the starting Beginner Box adventure. I've tried running Burnt Offerings multiple times, but the groups I tried it with never completed, so in the interest of moving on I want this new group to just jump into Skinsaw Murders from the start. With the understanding that my group has ties to Sandpoint but has otherwise not played through anything in Burnt Offerings, what other work do I need to do to set up the beginning of Skinsaw Murders while they're in this homebrew phase?
Nualia secured a greater blessing from Lamashtu and managed to free, then overpower, Malfeshnekor. Malfeshnekor was not killed, but he was weakened, and then when he tried to marshal the local goblin tribes some adventurers (a group I did a one-shot with) caught on and put him and the Seven Tooth Tribe down. Nualia, empowered by taking Malfeshnekor's soul energy, is some sort of unique half-fiend I haven't statted up yet, and probably won't be encountered until much later. Anyway, she's realized that the goblin tribes are too weakened by the repeated adventurer raids to be suitable foot soldiers for destroying Sandpoint, and she's starting to think about a bigger picture than a single town.
Meanwhile, the object of Aldern's infatuation has shifted from one of the departed adventurers to Nualia. I'm not sure if he knows of her new form and has helped her, or if he heard how she was behind some of the Late Unpleasantness and thinks she's tragically misunderstood. Either way, I need an alternative way to creep out the party since Aldern will probably not be going on a boar hunt with them. Maybe he could imitate someone they know, using the mask?
The rest of the remaining enemy NPCs, besides Grogmurt (who's possibly joined the Licktoad tribe after the dispersion of the Thistletops and the Seven Tooths), have all died at the hands of adventurers, Nualia, and Nualia's dogs. Many adventurers have also died, proving no match for the demon priestess in Thistletop.
Once Nualia freed Malfeshnekor, she left Thistletop. Several months after Malfeshnekor was slain, during which no travelers went missing and the goblin tribes seemed to calm themselves, Brodert got Shalelu and Ameiko to scope Thistletop out for him and has since started making regular trips to document the Thassilonian ruins. He's also been studying the still-operative runewell in the Catacombs of Wrath, which for some reason has not shut off despite repeated sinspawn raisings-and-slayings. In fact, the runewell seems stronger than ever, and Sheriff Hemlock and Father Zantus fear its effect on the people of Sandpoint is becoming dangerous. By the time the party gets back from their current adventure, Sandpoint will be suffering a plague of wrath that is not just emotional, but physical - several people in the town already have transformed into sinspawn, and many are partially converted. Along the lines of this old unused idea, but with the bonus that my new players haven't actually fought goblins to save Sandpoint yet, so it won't be repetitive.
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...what other work do I need to do to set up the beginning of Skinsaw Murders while they're in this homebrew phase?** spoiler omitted **...
- Introduce Aldern as soon as you can, in whatever positive way works with the group. This is important because it is where he establishes his obsession with a party member.
- Build up some level of attachment between the party and Sandpoint, or at least the farmers of the region. This really drives the initial engagement in the adventure - puts some emotional drive behind it.
Has anyone ever had a party with a ranger use the Residual Tracking spell on the Skinsaw man's footprints to see him and skip a bunch of the book?
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I would describe the skinsaw man rather than state that he's so-and-so. Have him dressed in sodden clothes the PC hadn't seen before. The combo of 1)the change to a ghoul and 2)the Your Lordship persona will have distorted facial features enough that a description rather than an early reveal is warranted.
I would describe the skinsaw man rather than state that he's so-and-so....
I back this advice 100%. You want the players to _realise_ who it is - don't tell them. The impact is much higher and increases emotional engagement.
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For all GMs preparing to run the Misgivings, contemplate on this:
The boss in the deepest part of the dungeon was once a powerful wizard who turned himself immortal by way of becoming undead moss.
Vorel Foxglove is a lichen.
It was so close. Last time I botched a spell that badly was when I accidentally cast limited fish.
Considering that a Lich's phylactery is a wondrous item, and that the manor is essentially a mostly failed (but still partially successful) attempt at that, I'd suggest that detect magic would return a weirdly persistent dim aura.
And, in case it comes up, I'd say detect undead and detect evil would reveal an aura consistent with the CR of the mold in the basement. And, in the case of detect thoughts, I'd go with a confusing "null" entry on intelligence score despite detecting a thinking mind, and the surface thoughts are creepy things like "murder" and "get out"
@World's Okayest DM:
I've had two groups run through the Skinsaw Murders so far.
The first group had an LN Monk and wanted to go meet the Mayor as soon as they got to Magnimar so he'd be okay with the authorities. Since the AP makes mention of rumors and various talk among the guards about the serial killings that have been going on for the past year or so (as opposed to the Cult's occasional death every now and then), I had the PCs arrive at the Mayor's office to find him arguing and yelling at Ironbriar for his incompetence. That resulted in the party being the goody-goodys and telling the Mayor who they were, why they were there, and everything they'd learned in Sandpoint and the Misgivings, hence what they planned to do next... It was such a surprise when they encountered Ironbriar later that night. :)
The second group arrived in Magnimar in ones and twos, having taken care of business in Sandpoint, so the investigation of the Foxglove Townhouse was a solo adventure for the Dwarven Barbarian (after making friends with a beggar, who watched, waited, and then came to get him when the guards weren't around). However, one of the players, the Rogue, knew all about Ironbriar and the Cult due to backstory and childhood, so getting the party pointed towards the Sawmill wasn't an issue for them.
For your group... You know that Ironbriar's one of the head judges and in charge of the Law, as it stands. He's got a secret network of cultists, but he could always have other helpers. I would not put it past him at all to have a few corrupt guards on his payroll.
And since he's the one who put the Faceless Stalkers at the house, he'd want to keep an eye on them in case things went wrong. If I were you, I'd put one or two guards from the Watchtower on Ironbriar's payroll, with the possibility of them taking the party's Cleric Watch friend for the next Oathsday ceremony (since by now, she knows quite a lot that she really shouldn't...). After all, I imagine the party would notice if she suddenly isn't around. :P
Hi everyone. I still have to start my campaign, but one of the players in my group has made a backstory for his character that he has an underground laboratory in Sandpoint where he does experiments on people. He's playing an Alchemist Chirurgeon.
It will take a while before we get to Habe's Sanatorium, but any ideas on if I can link that adventure and that NPC to his backstory somehow? Would be great if I can foreshadow it at the beginning of the campaign.
@Lawrencelot: Perhaps re-build Habe as an Alchemist Chirugeon himself and have Habe be, at your choice, either:
1. the PC's mentor
2. an escaped/survived victim of the PC with a warped interest in "protecting" people from the PC or doing his own research to become better than the PC
What do you think?
So my PCs party make up has changed greatly before they started book 2, and so far there are zero surviving PCs from the opening of book 1, which makes the Skinsaw Man's letters a lot...harder for me to put together? What are some suggestions on how to handle these notes left behind?
Also, opinions on replacing Grayst (the lead taken the the sanitorium) with Orik, since he was spared in their encounter and allowed to leave?
I have knee-jerk reactions to backstories that beg the question of why the character is only 1st level. An established lab does that for me. I'm making the assumption that the backstory includes the methods and structure the character has in place for keeping the lab a secret? My bias aside, Habe presents the world with a legal operation and as such, there's good reason to believe that your player's character would have heard of the sanitorium, simply by being a resident of Sandpoint, let alone having in similar interest.
Habe could be a supplier of subjects.
The character could be a supplier of alchemical items Habe uses to study/subdue his patients.
The character could be a supplier of alchemical items for Habe's "associate" (I forget his name).
They could be classmates from wherever they received training.
They could be relatives interested in the same subject.
They could be competitors for a supply that they both require, but is limited in supply, like equipment used to restrain patients.
The real question is why do you want the connection? If it's only to foreshadow the encounter, then the real connection could be to a shared supplier of some kind that gives information on other people in the area buying the same supplies. Whenever the PC needs something, and goes to that supplier, that's when the supplier reveals whatever complication that drops Habe's name.
Making a direct connection to Habe for the sake of foreshadowing carries some risks both for a premature encounter and for increased contact after. I'll tell you that the alchemist in my party took over Habe's sanitorium after they met him, and made it his new lab. It wasn't a strain on the campaign only because the player was cool enough to recognize that it was a side hustle, and left it's operation largely in the background of events (it became the thing he tended to when the group had any downtime, and nothing more).
@Lawrencelot: Perhaps re-build Habe as an Alchemist Chirugeon himself and have Habe be, at your choice, either:
1. the PC's mentor
2. an escaped/survived victim of the PC with a warped interest in "protecting" people from the PC or doing his own research to become better than the PCWhat do you think?
I like the idea of them being competitors, with Habe wanting to be better than the PC somehow.
I'm making the assumption that the backstory includes the methods and structure the character has in place for keeping the lab a secret?
Yeah, he supplies Pillbug with chemicals, and has a shop with simple herbs and medicines.
They could be competitors for a supply that they both require, but is limited in supply, like equipment used to restrain patients.
Really like this option. I'll have them be competitors as with the idea above. I think I will let Habe hate the player, and let the player figure out why only when they get to this part of the Skinsaw Murders.
Thanks for the ideas Fair Strides and mousmous!
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So my PCs party make up has changed greatly before they started book 2, and so far there are zero surviving PCs from the opening of book 1, which makes the Skinsaw Man's letters a lot...harder for me to put together? What are some suggestions on how to handle these notes left behind?
Also, opinions on replacing Grayst (the lead taken the the sanitorium) with Orik, since he was spared in their encounter and allowed to leave?
You could address the letters to an NPC they're close to. Or, do what I'm doing and find a way for them to meet Åldern during the Murders. I'm notably giving his mask the ability to hide the stench ability and allow him to assume his old form by looking at a painting of himself.
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So my PCs party make up has changed greatly before they started book 2, and so far there are zero surviving PCs from the opening of book 1, which makes the Skinsaw Man's letters a lot...harder for me to put together? What are some suggestions on how to handle these notes left behind?
Also, opinions on replacing Grayst (the lead taken the the sanitorium) with Orik, since he was spared in their encounter and allowed to leave?
My pc's met Aldern and survived to Book 2 but I didn't like the obsession with its sexual overtones so I had Aldern be angry with the leaders of the town for not helping him rebuild his house, sending workers that seduced his wife, etc. So his notes targeted the mayor and the leader of the carpenter guild, etc. This also made it more plausible for Hemlock to ask the pc's to investigate which makes him look weak or foolish if the pc's are directly implicated in the murders based on evidence at the scene. Even if it appears to be a frame.
Replacing Grayst with Orik sounds okay, pending the terms of his "release." My pc's also sent Orik on his way with a "don't let us ever see you again" - indicating he should leave the region entirely. It does strike me as entirely plausible that Orik would fall in with the thieves Grayst is with when attacked by the Skinsaw Man. Orik's singular ability seems to be: making bad choices.
One of my players immediately knew it was Aldern as soon as he saw the note with the players name he was obsessed with on it. We stopped right after they investigated the bodies in the sawmill. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on how I could throw him off the trail of Aldern a bit? I thought I had a decent number of red herrings. I had Titus Scarnetti and Caizarlu show up in book one so I thought that would help, but one of my players is just too smart I guess.
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One of my players immediately knew it was Aldern as soon as he saw the note with the players name he was obsessed with on it. We stopped right after they investigated the bodies in the sawmill. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on how I could throw him off the trail of Aldern a bit? I thought I had a decent number of red herrings. I had Titus Scarnetti and Caizarlu show up in book one so I thought that would help, but one of my players is just too smart I guess.
I don't think it is the end of the world if the player's figure it out. At most, they could decide to skip Habe's, and even that isn't guaranteed. After all, the last place Aldern said he would be is Magnimar and Habe's is on the way. If the party tries to use Knowledge: Local to figure out where else he could have gone or anything else about the Foxglove family, I'd probably share the info about the Misgivings, but Habe's is also on the way to there and the party would be wise to gather exhaust all sources of info rather than go in blind.
Either way, Maester Gump can still run into the party on the road to wherever they're going.
I mean, it doesn't really make a big difference- my players were put off by Habe's insistence that they not come in (they didn't try terribly hard), so I just sent them off on the Scarecrow mission, and then they found their way to the manor from their. If they figure it out quickly, it's far from the end of the world.
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An update on my game, like you guys said it wasn't the end of the world. Actually as things went on my players started doubting it was really Aldern committing the murders. When the reveal with the key to Foxglove manor happened my players were still surprised, one of my players even let out a pretty loud gasp, it was great. Overall it was one of our best sessions with this AP, I was worried for nothing
I am thinking about altering the penultimate climax of Skinsaw Murders to be an attempt on the Lord Mayor's life at the annual Seven Veils masquerade ball.
My thought for the setup would be as follows: the PCs raid the Seven's Sawmill but either the justice escapes or was not there. In my game Nualia survived and has become a succubus, so perhaps she could take the place of the cultist leader at the mill and succubi usually have an easy time escaping. The only hook they find is the cult leader's journal, and after a few days of translations they discover that there will be an attempt on the Lord Mayor's life at his annual Seven Veils ball, which is in a couple of days.
That's where I'm at so far. Has anyone altered Book 2 to have this sort of climax? Are there resources that anyone can point me to so I can design such an encounter? I'm thinking that perhaps there is a secret entrance between Defiant's Garden and either the House of Welcome or the Deverin estate.
Does it seem weird to anyone else that Foxglove Manor is described as perched on a cliff with its stained glass windows overlooking the Varisian Gulf, but the windows face East, which is back towards land?
I guess the spur of land the house sits on must jut East off of Foxglove Bluff back toward the mouth of the river, and thus overlook water that is technically part of the Varisian Gulf, but it seems like it would have made a lot more sense to just point the house West towards the ocean...
Hi all,
My players will soon start the Hambley's Farm section. I'm running the game online via Roll20/Video Chat and trying to figure out the best way to make this a fittingly scary and memorable scene.
Here are my concerns:
* I tried importing a map of the farmland around the house I found online but it's of massive scale and play in Roll20 would be awkward
* Separating out individual ghouls around the farm as the map in the book suggests could turn the scene into an xp-grab, since 4th/5th level characters would have no problem taking out individual ghouls.
Would you run this section (everything up until they arrive at the farmhouse itself) fully theatre-of-the-mind or on screen? Some have said to only use one (or zero) scarecrows and instead have the ghouls descend on the farm en masse and turn it into a Night of the Living Dead kind of scene. I'm not sold on anything I've read yet and just wanted to see if there are any more recent good ideas, especially suitable for remote sessions.
Thanks for any insights!
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I ran the start of this as-written - with the party moving around a large 'farm map' encountering 1-2 scarecrows at a time. While they were kind of freaked out by the first one that ripped itself free and sprinted at them, they quickly learned to simply surround and kill the ghouls who broke free. After that, they started shooting them from a distance - accidentally killing a still-living human in the process.
The screaming that murder caused drew the attention of the ghouls at the farmhouse, and here is where I split things off: the scarecrows all began breaking free, and as the party was met with a large host from the farmhouse, more and more trickled in every turn, attacking isolated party members and keeping up constant pressure.
I also, incidentally, ran the ghouls as Ghoul Unchained Rogue 1s, and the Ghast as like a Ghast Unchained Rogue 3? Making the ghouls more relevant threats does help make them feel like something to be feared after the first one drops easily...
I ran the start of this as-written - with the party moving around a large 'farm map' encountering 1-2 scarecrows at a time. While they were kind of freaked out by the first one that ripped itself free and sprinted at them, they quickly learned to simply surround and kill the ghouls who broke free. After that, they started shooting them from a distance - accidentally killing a still-living human in the process.
The screaming that murder caused drew the attention of the ghouls at the farmhouse, and here is where I split things off: the scarecrows all began breaking free, and as the party was met with a large host from the farmhouse, more and more trickled in every turn, attacking isolated party members and keeping up constant pressure.
I also, incidentally, ran the ghouls as Ghoul Unchained Rogue 1s, and the Ghast as like a Ghast Unchained Rogue 3? Making the ghouls more relevant threats does help make them feel like something to be feared after the first one drops easily...
These are all really good suggestions, thank you! I really like the convergence idea, where shooting one of the humans brings on an ever-increasing mob of the Ghouls rushing in from the cornfields.
Also I decided to check out a different VTT and it looks like Foundry can manage the large map with ease, much better than Roll20. So I'm going to give that a shot for this segment.
A Query About Xanesha, Scorching Ray, and the Impaler of Thorns (Reach Weapon Rules and Tactics)
Greetings to all,
I posted here a while back asking for mid-level development guidance for some of my players’ characters. Thanks again to Askar Avari and Roonfizzle Garnackle for their advice. My campaign has reached the Shadow Clock, and depending on how they approach it (literally), my players may find themselves facing off against Xanesha in the next session.
My habit for the combat encounters is to make a cheat sheet/stat block page for each monster, whether from the Adventure Path (AP) or the various Bestiaries, with notes about their respective powersets and the suggested tactics from the book (the Anniversary Edition). In writing out Xanesha, I came across two areas where I was not sure how the rules worked and how that would affect her tactical choices.
First, regarding Scorching Ray. Xanesha can cast this up to seven times per day (six for this combat, assuming one spell at this level has already gone toward one casting of Invisibility). Reading the spell description, I see that at CL6 she gets one ray as a touch attack to do 4d6 damage to a target. This seems like a pretty good option if she feels the need to reach out and touch a PC who is hanging back out of melee range in order to cause trouble – most likely the Druid or the Wizard (assuming her survives her sneak attack, as I feel she is from the school of “Kill the magic user first”). My trouble is in calculating her to hit roll: her BAB is listed as +12 and her DEX bonus (for ability score 25) is +7. Am I correct in thinking that she gets a +19 to hit on the Scorching Ray attack roll? If so, she is going to hit everyone in the party on everything except a natural one, with the exception of the fighter, whom she will hit on three or higher (85% success). Am I calculating the ranged touch attack roll correctly (i.e., BAB+DEX Bonus+d20 roll)? A nearly automatic 4-24 damage is a lot for four 7th level PCs! I do not want to take away a significant ability from Xanesha, but I also don’t want to nuke my PCs. Any advice?
Secondly, I have a question regarding the Impaler of Thorns (as a reach weapon) and Xensha’s likely melee tactics. The AP tactics have Xanesha using Major Image to create the illusion of a demon as a distraction, and then use her Invisibility approach a PC (per the above, I have designated the Wizard as the literal stuckee) and make a sneak attack. Fine and good – she will make the attack at her full +17 bonus and jam the Impaler between the Wizard’s shoulder blades on anything except a natural one (and given her preparations and the importance of the fight, I would probably DM handwave the roll and just give her the hit). She will do her 1d8+8+1d6 damage (10-22 assuming no crit), pancake the Wizard, and we deal with the Impaler’s special ability – all PCs will save versus despair at 16 for what is very likely to be the whole combat, and the Wizard will make a second save at 16 to avoid being nauseated for a round. Xanesha will snarl something appropriately cinematic which I will make up, and then the fight is on.
Written tactics have her fighting in melee and saving the Medusa’s Mask petrify ability for one particularly troublesome foe. She has a very strong set of attacks for the full-round action (+17/+12/+7) and can certainly deal a lot of damage to either or both of the melee-oriented PCs (Fighter and Barbarian). My question comes when these two PCs, and probably one or more Nature’s Allies summoned by the Druid (Team Owlbear for the win!) attempt to close with Xanesha and turn her into Snake Surprise. If I have read her stat block and the rules correctly, after she will be able to (in any order) deal out her three attacks to opponents in the 10’ range ring and also take a five foot step to adjust or restore range. Every time a PC or summoned animal moves from the 10’ ring to the 5’ ring of squares (unless as a five-foot step), Xanesha will get an Attack of Opportunity (AoO) – thanks to Combat Reflexes, she has up to seven per round, and with a CMD of 35, no one is using Acrobatics to evade the AoO, not even the Barbarian with the maxed ranks and the Ring of Jumping, unless they roll a 20, which they would probably rather have as their attack roll.
Again, this seems very strong: unless she is either grappled (by an Owlbear, perhaps) or the PCs are able to box her in against the “sides” of Area E6 (which is only 5x6 or 6x7 squares, with the Angel statue supported from above per p. 123 and so not cutting off movement through the middle of the map), she will continue to shift by five feet, round after round, and deal out three attacks from the full attack plus (possibly) one AoO per opponent if they are doing any movement other than the five foot step to close from the 10’ ring to the 5’ ring to make their own full round attack. She wil not be able to attack an opponent who is in the 5’ ring and is thus inside her reach, but everyone else is fair game. Am I connecting the rule sets on AoO, reach weapons, and full attacks correctly? If so, I am concerned that action economy might not save my melee fighters, especially since they will have to chip through the mirror images to do reliable damage to Xanesha. Of course, a lucky critical hit could always turn the tide, but crits could also break her way, and she has cure serious wounds (9-30 points of healing) and can always slither for it if things go very badly.
All in all, I understand that as a CR9 encounter, she is meant to be very difficult to defeat, and I know that she was toned down significantly for the Anniversary Edition to reduce the TPK factor. I just want to make certain that I have set things up correctly so that I am a) following the rules and b) giving my players a fair shot at beating her as intended by the Paizo authors. Has anyone else gotten this far into the weeds on tactical movement for this encounter?
You’ve calculated the spell touch attack correctly. It’s designed to miss rarely, since it’s limited uses per day and may provoke an AoO and be interrupted if someone gets close.
Yes, reach weapons and combat reflexes are a classic combo. Remember the “donut” problem though.
Should be an exciting battle! One of my favourite set-pieces of the whole AP.
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Only one mixed-up calculation there - Xanesha fights while size Large, decreasing her ranged attack accuracy by 1.
Also, I want to point out that with her superior mobility, high saves, high Touch AC, and SR, Xanesha has very little to fear from your typical spellcasters. Their most powerful option is to buff martial characters who can beat her AC - which they can't do if those martial characters are dead or petrified. Both on a tactical level (dealing with her primary threats) and gameplay level (frontliners are made to take damage), if Xanesha opens with a full-attack, I recommend she go for a front-line, d10 character, preferably one with a low Will.
Sounds like you've got a good understanding of her abilities though! Best of luck.
You’ve calculated the spell touch attack correctly. It’s designed to miss rarely, since it’s limited uses per day and may provoke an AoO and be interrupted if someone gets close.
Yes, reach weapons and combat reflexes are a classic combo. Remember the “donut” problem though.
Should be an exciting battle! One of my favourite set-pieces of the whole AP.
Thanks for the feedback!
What is the "donut" problem? The 5' range ring?
Only one mixed-up calculation there - Xanesha fights while size Large, decreasing her ranged attack accuracy by 1.
Also, I want to point out that with her superior mobility, high saves, high Touch AC, and SR, Xanesha has very little to fear from your typical spellcasters. Their most powerful option is to buff martial characters who can beat her AC - which they can't do if those martial characters are dead or petrified. Both on a tactical level (dealing with her primary threats) and gameplay level (frontliners are made to take damage), if Xanesha opens with a full-attack, I recommend she go for a front-line, d10 character, preferably one with a low Will.
Sounds like you've got a good understanding of her abilities though! Best of luck.
Thanks for the correction on her size, Askar. Since she is size Large due to length (the snake body) rather than height, she only takes up two 5' squares like a tiger, correct? As opposed to an ogre, whose base takes up four squares (two by two)?
I'm pumped for this fight!
It's been a wee bit since I dropped in on this thread ... and it's been a bit since your posts T Rex, did your party survive Xanesha? Or did she notch her belt with another party? (She's got more than one belt full of notches...)
Hopefully your two players took losing at least one of their PC's well? (Yes, I had to go back and find the help you were referring to, and now remember your party composition of 2 PC's time 2 players for a party of 4!)
It's been a wee bit since I dropped in on this thread ... and it's been a bit since your posts T Rex, did your party survive Xanesha? Or did she notch her belt with another party? (She's got more than one belt full of notches...)
Hopefully your two players took losing at least one of their PC's well? (Yes, I had to go back and find the help you were referring to, and now remember your party composition of 2 PC's time 2 players for a party of 4!)
Hi Roonfizzle,
The party did indeed survive. They used the messenger ravens from the Sawmill to identify the tower's location in Underbridge, and after getting the flavor of the neighborhood and hearing increasingly disturbing rumors, they used Communal Spider Climb to scale the outside of the Clock.
This put them at full strength to go up against Xanesha, which may have been what tipped the scales in their favor, although there were also some lucky die rolls. The illusory demon caught them all off-guard, with the exception of the barbarian, who had enough time to yell "it's a trick!" before Xanesha spiked him good and hard, although he saved versus the nausea effect. The party all failed the save versus the Impaler's broader special ability and I thought I had a TPK brewing, but the party wizard was able to use his dispel magic to wipe out the effect in the next round.
Xanesha then focused her attacks on the barbarian, and was giving him the business while shifting by 5' increments. I rolled poorly for her tertiary attacks, but I was feeling nervous, as the fighter hadn't figured out how to maneuver to contact and was holding for the wizard to haste him, and I wasn't sure if the barbarian would stand up much longer if the hits started to all connect, and I had the faceless stalkers showing up in round 5.
Things shifted in the next round, however, as the barbarian chipped his way through the Mirror Images and the fighter rushed Xanesha (eating the attack of opportunity) and scored a crit. On top of that, the druid summoned an owlbear that significantly cut Xanesha's maneuvering space, although its attacks were ineffective.
After this, Xanesha tried to use the Medusa Mask on the fighter, but he made his save, and the wizard rolled really well and overcame her spell resistance with a lightning bolt. This, on top of the crit and the other damage from the barbarian and fighter, moved her from the "I should heal" range to the "Marines, we are leaving!" range of HP.
She bailed over the side of the Clock and used her feather fall, at which point the barbarian did a Peter Pan after her, but without the benefit of the spell. I did some quick math about when he would catch up to her in mid-air and grapple her, and the wizard threw down another spell (and high SR roll) that KO'ed Xanesha. Meanwhile, the druid *also* jumped over the side, but wild shaped herself into the largest eagle she could (much to the delight of her hawk animal companion) and saved the barbarian from becoming street pizza and recovered Xanesha's magically floating body.
In the aftermath, I decided that the stalkers had reached the top of the stairs while everyone was distracted with aerial drama, but upon not seeing Xanesha (and perhaps being released from her charm effect by her loss of consciousness), they decided they wanted nothing to do with the heavily armed fighter and the wizard. Upon regaining the top of the Clock, the barbarian summarily decapitated Xanesha, and the party then descended the tower, throwing her corpse down ahead of them.
The wizard, being the smartest of them, decided to use dimension door to reach the bottom of the tower with her treasure chests, at which point he was ambushed and nearly killed by the Scarecrow. He was saved by the barbarian making a nice high jump (with the aid of Aldern Foxglove's ring of jumping) and then the arrival of the druid and the fighter, who capped off his night of excellence by crit'ing the Scarecrow into the great beyond.
The party then got themselves organized while the druid wildshaped to a normal-sized bird and returned to the Kaijitsu townhouse, where she grabbed Ameiko (who has become a party friend and advisor re: Magnimar) and a cart, and returned to the Clock to load up both the Scarecrow and Xanesha's corpses (the druid had to use speak with animals and a lot of persuasion and apples to convince the horse).
They had a lot of nice roleplay with the Lord Mayor and some NPCs I had made earlier for Tsuto's trial (other judges from the tribunal that Ironbriar sat on), and they are now prepping for their journey to Turtleback Ferry. Overall, my players (my family) really enjoyed the fight as a set piece and said they were worried they would all be killed, so I think I got the balance right, even if the tide of battle turned quickly against Xanesha based on a couple of rolls. Let's see how they fare in the next book!
That sounds like fairly Epic fight. Always amazing when a plan comes together that well. I'm also happy that your parties experience jumping off that tower was better than mine.... In brief, Gnome Sorceress base jumped off the top of the tower while invisible, fully intending to cast feather fall a round or two later. Instead? She was hit with a sleep spell. <splat>.