Creative Director
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Q: p92, Lamia Matriarch: In stat block: Melee touch (2d4 Wisdom), but in the description: Wisdom Drain (Su) ...deals 1d6 Wisdom drain with a touch. Which should we use?
A: That's an annoying error! It should be 2d4 Wisdom drain on a touch
Q: There's a reference to downloadable content for the map of Magnimar in that section of Pathfinder 2. Has such downloadable content been posted as of yet?
A:Yes. The downloadable supplement map was a blog post for October 5th.
Q: The notes for Xanesha say that her stats include her pre-fight buffs, but I don't see any sign of that. In particular, mage armor and shield should raise her AC by an additional +7 to 33(!), to which haste will add an additional +1, along with an additional +1 to attack, +1 to her Reflex save and another longspear attack at a total of +21.
A: Yeah... the fly speed and additional armor bonuses didn't get added in to her stats, alas. Her AC with these effects would indeed give her a really HIGH Armor Class; touch attacks are the key here. Or perhaps a few dispel magics.
What is the consequences of burning down Foxglove Manor without first exorcising it (according to p.39)? Is the curse still broken, or is it just limited to the area underground?
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What is the consequences of burning down Foxglove Manor without first exorcising it (according to p.39)? Is the curse still broken, or is it just limited to the area underground?
I would say that the curse is not broken, it is still in full force underground.
Also in this topic there are some cool suggestions for the house burning given by Mr. Jacobs.|
Creative Director
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What is the consequences of burning down Foxglove Manor without first exorcising it (according to p.39)? Is the curse still broken, or is it just limited to the area underground?
As I talked about in the other thread... I'd actually advocate having Foxglove Manor resist burning. Or at the very least, make burning it down a more difficult task than exorcising the house by penetrating it to the fungusy depths and taking care of it at the root of the problem.
95% of the time, fire's a lazy solution to D&D adventrues.
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Creative Director
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Or, perhaps, put another way: what if the player's actions are so painstakingly difficult to peg down a "sin" of any kind, will this affect the AP towards the end game? So, essentially, "no matter what," I need to knuckle down, dig super deep, and find a sin appropriate for the characters as portrayed by my player in order to interact appropriately with a later event?
The magnitude of PC sin really only matters in Pathfinder 5, "Sins of the Saviors." And don't worry! If you have really good-guy characters who don't fall into sinner patterns, the adventure still works fine. In some ways, avoiding sin gives a party some definate advantages in "Sins of th Saviors," in fact. But being virtueous is a LOT tougher than being sinful. Therefore, the virtueous route through "Sins of the Saviors" is a harder path than the sinner route.
If you have to dig deep to find a sin to peg on a PC, chances are excellent that PC isn't sinful. And if that's the case, no problem! "Sins of the Saviors" will certianly accomidate sinners, saints, and everyone in between.
What is the consequences of burning down Foxglove Manor without first exorcising it (according to p.39)? Is the curse still broken, or is it just limited to the area underground?
As I talked about in the other thread... I'd actually advocate having Foxglove Manor resist burning. Or at the very least, make burning it down a more difficult task than exorcising the house by penetrating it to the fungusy depths and taking care of it at the root of the problem.
95% of the time, fire's a lazy solution to D&D adventures.
In my home game, I've established how damp the region is by repeatedly mentioning fogs, drizzling rain, and puddles of water. When goblins tried to set thatched roofs on fire, they had a hard time of it. Later, when a group of goblins tried to ambush the party on the road, one tried to set a grass fire, which sputtered and died immediately.
Because of that, they didn't even ask whether they could burn thistletop.
What is the consequences of burning down Foxglove Manor without first exorcising it (according to p.39)? Is the curse still broken, or is it just limited to the area underground?As I talked about in the other thread... I'd actually advocate having Foxglove Manor resist burning. Or at the very least, make burning it down a more difficult task than exorcising the house by penetrating it to the fungusy depths and taking care of it at the root of the problem.
95% of the time, fire's a lazy solution to D&D adventrues.
Well for my group it was not a lazy solution, they actually cleared the whole thing and everything in the tunnels. They just decide that the house was evil and needed to be destroyed, and due to not having a wrecking ball, fire seemed a reasonable alternative. They didn't exorcise Vorel, though they have figured out most of the history. Their religious member died as they were fighting in the dungeons and so they just don't have much choice on how to deal with it.
I think though, I will have burning it not work and if they try other more brutish methods the house will slowly repair itself. That way they can go research a way to destroy it permanently, while getting their companion raised.
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If you have to dig deep to find a sin to peg on a PC, chances are excellent that PC isn't sinful. And if that's the case, no problem! "Sins of the Saviors" will certianly accomidate sinners, saints, and everyone in between.
Actually I think that if a PC goes out of their way to be all pure and good, then "pride" would probably be their sin. I've seen quite a few overly proud paladins in my games over the years...
Or, perhaps, put another way: what if the player's actions are so painstakingly difficult to peg down a "sin" of any kind, will this affect the AP towards the end game? So, essentially, "no matter what," I need to knuckle down, dig super deep, and find a sin appropriate for the characters as portrayed by my player in order to interact appropriately with a later event?
Well, if the characters aren't helping you out with the sinning, you could always make the characters pay for the "sins of the player".
Did someone bogart the last of the pizza at one of the games? GLUTTONY!
Did somone show up late to a game with no excuse? Or just known for never cleaining their room or something? SLOTH!
Someone a bit cranky? WRATH!
Did someone buy some glow-in-the-dark dice that they just won't stop talking about? PRIDE!
It's kind of cheesy, but if the players are playing their characters like angels, you're going to have to come up with something eventually. Feel free to go as far back in the past as you need to. "Remember when you pulled my hair in the 3rd grade?" I've know some of the folks in my gaming group since I was 12. They still give me s@!! about the time I threw pudding at the wall.
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95% of the time, fire's a lazy solution to D&D adventrues.
That is so true. I still can't get over the DM who came on the boards and asked what he should do now that he had let his PCs burn Thistletop to the ground.
Seems like a waste of money to buy an adventure and then let the PCs torch dozens of encounters with a few flaming arrows.
It's just not cricket!
95% of the time, fire's a lazy solution to D&D adventrues.On the other hand, my player's PCs dealt with everything at Foxglove Manor (including a novel solution to Vorel) and *then* burned the place very carefully and thoroughly to the ground. I think that's actually a reasonable decision, and I had no problem with letting them do it. Trashed a lot of treasure, but that's their problem.
If they'd started with fire rather than ended with it, I'd have been inclined to gather all the monsters in the place and have them come streaming out by whatever exit was handy. It'd be a tough fight, but if the PCs can win that, more power to them.
Mary
I would advise upping the levels of most of the encounters not Xanesha. I ran four players and they blew right through most monsters. So with seven...
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Q: p92, Lamia Matriarch: In stat block: Melee touch (2d4 Wisdom), but in the description: Wisdom Drain (Su) ...deals 1d6 Wisdom drain with a touch. Which should we use?A: That's an annoying error! It should be 2d4 Wisdom drain on a touch
It's repeated again for Lucrecia in Hook Mountain, the attack says 2d4, but the special bilities: Wisdom Drain says 1d6
Let it be noted that on the map of the clocktower, the stairs mostly wrap all the way around the E2 floors, even though the actual map doesn't show that for every floor. One of the middle E2 Floors only has the stair case on one side, but this is a mistake. Source for this answer: James Jacobs
Also the construction details of the Impaler of Thorns is incorrect, it is made with Crushing Despair. Likewise, James Jacobs is the source.
These comments/questions were originally fielded in This thread
Well for my group it was not a lazy solution, they actually cleared the whole thing and everything in the tunnels. They just decide that the house was evil...
This brings up my question. Last night the party cleric cast detect evil just before they entered Foxglove Manor. Is the house evil? Are haunts evil?
Aldern's offense block and his special-abilities block disagree on whether it's his bite or his claws that cause disease (should be the bite).
Mary
Anyone notice that the two maps of Magnimar in the Magnimar section are clearly drawn to different scales, but the distance scale is the same length and representation? (IE 1in or however long it is is 640 feet on both maps)
I believe on the Blog they re-released the maps with corrected scales. You might have to go back a ways to find that. There is a link to a PDF with corrected and enhanced maps.
Well for my group it was not a lazy solution, they actually cleared the whole thing and everything in the tunnels. They just decide that the house was evil...This brings up my question. Last night the party cleric cast detect evil just before they entered Foxglove Manor. Is the house evil? Are haunts evil?
That's a good question, and my answer is obviously unoffical.
I would say that yes, the House is evil. Vorel's ascension to lichdom backfired and his soul used the House as a sort of surrogate phylactery. Ergo, the House pretty much has his alignment.
The Haunts are more debatable, and probably subject to a more nuanced answer. In my opinion, the Haunts are tormented spirits, but they weren't necessarily evil people in life. Traver took his own life out of shame and remorse, and the murder of his wife was while he was possessed. Cyralie tried to burn down the house to save her family. While these are evil acts, a true evil alignment seems to be a matter of choice to be evil. For example: a man who shoves another man in an argument, who then hits his head and dies, is not necessarily evil or becomes evil on the spot. Compared to Iesha, who until she rised as a vegence seeking Revanant, was just a tragic victim full stop.
The problem with nuancing them as 'not quite evil' is that you run the risk of confusing your players. Because those Haunts will hurt you! Just like a drowning person will pull you under without necessarily wishing you harm... and also these Haunts are here partially due to Vorel's powerful aura.
Vorel reminds me of the movie Poltergeist, where you have one bad spirit keeping the others in line.
Here's another place where I confused my players.. I allowed a high knowledge roll to explain to a character that the House was acting as a surrogate phylactery (which does makes sense to me), but that gave them the idea that they had to burn the house to exorcise Vorel, when the book actually calls for a different process down in his secret room where his fungus outline is located. I had to do some careful backpedalling, because it was me that had misled them down the wrong path.
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Something that came up in my first session of Skinsaw. The aftermath in the Sanitorium says that Habe takes Grayst back to Sandpoint to have Zantus cast a Remove Disease. There's a problem with this though, Zantus is only 4th level and not capable of casting Remove Disease. Should Zantus have levelled between Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw?
Something that came up in my first session of Skinsaw. The aftermath in the Sanitorium says that Habe takes Grayst back to Sandpoint to have Zantus cast a Remove Disease. There's a problem with this though, Zantus is only 4th level and not capable of casting Remove Disease. Should Zantus have levelled between Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw?
Zanthus is the leader of the biggest church in the region. I suppose He has access to almost any scroll or potion, He just has to ask his superior. Still, He might not like to spend precious church resources on a guy like Grayst.
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The Skinsaw murders continue at a rate of one every few days after the deaths of Vinder and Harker. In theory, the Skinsaw Man hangs out at the Misgivings for several days and then swims to Sandpoint, commits a murder, and returns. I'm trying to figure out how to describe this to an observer.
I'm guessing that he either leaves through the vent in the basement or else he walks down the path until he can just walk into the water without having to dive too far. Is either of these particularly more likely than the other?
This would be a good time to attack him, if they can get him outside of both the Misgivings and the water. He'd be without his support and the open space would make combat easier for a larger group (who could even use mounted combat). The interior of the manor wouldn't likely be that different, though it would lack the satisfying climax normally found in the basement.
Of course, if they clear out the manor in his absence that means that he has gone off and committed another murder.
The Skinsaw Man is a slightly unsatisfying climax to Misgivings anyway, in my group's opinion: he is as much a victim as a villain. So if the PCs have taken him out early, it's a stellar opportunity to develop an ending scene that actually deals with Vorel in a dramatic fashion. ("Come back with the needed scrolls and make him go away" was not our idea of a satisfying climax.)
I'm prejudiced, though. My game had Aldern as a continuing NPC throughout the entire campaign, and I've become excessively fond of him. I particularly liked the moment, late in the campaign, when he risked his life to save Jal (the object of his obsession) and blurted out while doing it "No! Nobody gets to kill Jal but me!" He's a sick, twisted puppy, but I love playing him. I think the PCs must agree, because their distress when he died in #3, and their efforts to get him back, were comparable to what they'd have done for a PC.
(I made him a ghoul, not a ghast. Ghasts seem to be "kill on sight" because you just can't have a conversation with something that smells that bad.)
Mary
I'm just going through the creatures for the PCGen data set I'm working on and I noticed a few minor mistakes:
Carrionstorm:
- Reflex Save should be +0 (Base 0, Dex 11)
- Distraction DC should be 11 (10 + half HD + CON with no CON value)
Revenant
- hp should be 66 (7d12+21): Unholy Fortitude grants CHA*HD = 3*7 hp
- Claw damage should be 1d6+7, not +10: the revenant has two claw attacks, so the claw is not its "sole natural weapon" and thus should not receive 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus
- In the same vein, Constrict damage should also be 1d6+7
- Question: is the Spell Resistance dependant on its HD? Maybe 5+HD?
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Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings
Chapter 2: The Skinsaw Murders
Chapter 3: The Hook Mountain Massacre
Chapter 4: Fortress of the Stone Giants
Chapter 5: Sins of the Saviors
Chapter 6: Spires of Xin-Shalast
Would you mind if I compiled your GM Reference threads into a pdf errata document and posted to the PathfinderWiki site?
-Alfred
Join us at the PathfinderWiki!
I'm looking for the connection between Foxglove's Magnimar townhouse and the Seven's Sawmill. In the hidden cache there are some clues, specifically that there is a sawmill but not which particular sawmill. Magnimar is a vast city and I don't see my PCs investigating every sawmill they come across. I don't really want to add an address to the thin black ledger because I just don't see Aldern being quite so sloppy. Anybody else run into this problem running Skinsaw?
The clue in the cache does refer to "The Seven's Sawmill", and that payments are dropped off there every Oathday at midnight.
The clue in the cache does refer to "The Seven's Sawmill", and that payments are dropped off there every Oathday at midnight.Right. But being that the Seven are a secret society they are not about to have a sign out front advertising that this is their meeting place. The description of the mill does not indicate the actual name of the business. Do they really have a sign out front that reads: "The Seven's Sawmill" ? Justice Ironbriar couldn't be that stupid (Int14/Wis14).
I just figured that the Seven society is so secret that the name "The Seven's Sawmill" would have no meaning for anyone else, anyway, so there is no risk to naming it that.
The Curse of the Crimsom Throne links have changed, so I'm updating these as well.
Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings
Chapter 2: The Skinsaw Murders
Chapter 3: The Hook Mountain Massacre
Chapter 4: Fortress of the Stone Giants
Chapter 5: Sins of the Saviors
Chapter 6: Spires of Xin-Shalast
ByPassing or downgrading Haunts.
The haunts are great flavour, but i am a bit confused ont he the CR/XP awards. are these to the individuals affected, to the party, or GM choice?
also, i am thinking of downgrading them since we will probably run a small side adventure (Return to Falcon's hollow w/The Crown of the Kobold King upgraded for 4th lvl characters. Orc King?)
any clarifications on how a haunt is defeated/encountered and who/whom the XP goes to would be welcome.
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Creative Director
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ByPassing or downgrading Haunts.
The haunts are great flavour, but i am a bit confused ont he the CR/XP awards. are these to the individuals affected, to the party, or GM choice?
also, i am thinking of downgrading them since we will probably run a small side adventure (Return to Falcon's hollow w/The Crown of the Kobold King upgraded for 4th lvl characters. Orc King?)
any clarifications on how a haunt is defeated/encountered and who/whom the XP goes to would be welcome.
Haunts are treated the same as traps or monsters as regards XP. The entire party gets the xp award, even if the haunt only really menaces one PC. In the same way, a fight against an ogre in which the ogre only ever attacks one character results in a group XP award.
To take it one step further... ALL CR XP awards should be split among the party, really, be they from traps or haunts or monsters or hazards or Ad-Hoc XP awards for achieving story goals.
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ByPassing or downgrading Haunts.
The haunts are great flavour, but i am a bit confused ont he the CR/XP awards. are these to the individuals affected, to the party, or GM choice?
also, i am thinking of downgrading them since we will probably run a small side adventure (Return to Falcon's hollow w/The Crown of the Kobold King upgraded for 4th lvl characters. Orc King?)
any clarifications on how a haunt is defeated/encountered and who/whom the XP goes to would be welcome.
Haunts are treated the same as traps or monsters as regards XP. The entire party gets the xp award, even if the haunt only really menaces one PC. In the same way, a fight against an ogre in which the ogre only ever attacks one character results in a group XP award.
To take it one step further... ALL CR XP awards should be split among the party, really, be they from traps or haunts or monsters or hazards or Ad-Hoc XP awards for achieving story goals.
or what you could do if you prefer it as an individual reward is just use the CR and divide it as normal then only award the divided amount to the player who was affected if he survived. Unless it was one in which the group was involved say, keeping the player from jumping out the window, then you could do a group reward.
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I wanted the crimes to have an impact from the get go so I made handout notes for the first two in Skinsaw Murders.
rustle
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Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings
Chapter 2: The Skinsaw Murders
Chapter 3: The Hook Mountain Massacre
Chapter 4: Fortress of the Stone Giants
Chapter 5: Sins of the Saviors
Chapter 6: Spires of Xin-Shalast
So I click the link for the Skinsaw Murders and it just takes me to the main page...help please!
The boards got rearranged and now the links don't work.
Go up about 5 posts for new links.
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If someone in the party is a tracker, what would that tracker find on the grounds around Foxglove Manor?
It was stated elsewhere that Aldern leaves via the pool in the Caverns. What about other ghouls? I would think that the ghouls are too lazy to climb up through the well (though the cover has them doing so...).
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Been thinking about that one myself recently, though my game probably won't get there until next year!
I think one thing they would definitely find is signs of the attacks that made Aldern's first ghouls. I think the ghouls found in the basement are a mix of local thugs, farmers brought back from the countryside (perhaps some of those who accompanied Grump to the Hambley Farm). I thought maybe I'd mix in a ruined and looted Varisian wagon off the side of the road, or perhaps a camp that's completely deserted and the wagons abandoned. Maybe Aldern's coach (assuming he had one)? Maybe part of the horse eaten or carried off by the ghoul bat? I'll definitely throw in the tracks of the other ghouls around the attack sites and around the manor.
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I think Luke has a good point Mactaka - I have visions of the ghouls dashing out into the night screaming - they won't be as careful as Aldern and I've always been a fan of the 'we're coming to get you' version of dungeons et all.
Rich
I suspect that any animals of any size who actually dared approach the grounds would get devours by undead avian swarms. Other than the well denizens, I don't think that there would be any tracks to speak of more recent than Aldern's last approach as a human.
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alright...seems the idea is to make entrance to the place vague, and make the heroes unsure. So I'll scatter tracks, mostly humanoid, but none of aldern's bare feet tracks (i suspect he takes the ocean route) into both the front and side doors. But they'll be old or muddied.
Well, I added a lot of tracks in and around the well (The huge bat is using it to exit and enter, after all...) and they found the hidden entrance using a Faerie Fire spell.
BUT... they chose to ignore it, fearing of losing some clues in the manor and, also, fearing the depth of the well (the first climber would be alone for a few moments, before the second could catch up with him)...
So, no need in hiding the PC something... they take all kind of decisions anyway.
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Well, I added a lot of tracks in and around the well (The huge bat is using it to exit and enter, after all...) and they found the hidden entrance using a Faerie Fire spell.
BUT... they chose to ignore it, fearing of losing some clues in the manor and, also, fearing the depth of the well (the first climber would be alone for a few moments, before the second could catch up with him)...
So, no need in hiding the PC something... they take all kind of decisions anyway.
My PCs did the opposite, thanks to the Warlock and his Spider Climb-at-will Invocation. They are about to stumble into Aldern with absolutely no clue about who he is and what is going on.
Reference: PF#2 Shadow Clock Tower map pg. 52
I'm a bit confused about the layout of E6. Is the map of E6 underneath the roof, or is it supposed to be on the roof? If it is underneath the roof, it is not clear to me where Xanesha's nest is.
Thanks for the help.
I was curious if anyone had made the the "Sihedron Sacrifice" scroll from Xanesha's treasure, and wanted to share. I'll be making one myself in the near future, unless another community member has whipped up a cool one.
Best.