Hugging T Rex's page

Hello again all,

My group is looking to get Hook Mountain Massacre rolling after a long break following our completion of Skinsaw Murders. We've made it upriver to Turtleback Ferry, and after some roleplay to get the PCs and players attached to the townspeople, I anticipate hitting the Strange Firepelt encounter.

I have a question about the bear trap that Kibb is caught in. This is somewhat of a basic rules question, but I could not find what I was looking for under the Aid Another section nor with some Googling here and on Reddit. The trap is described as "a DC 28 Strength check (or a DC 20 Disable Device check) is enough to spring the trap and free the firepelt."

Knowing my players, the Fighter and the Barbarian are probably going to end up trying to pry open the trap while the Druid keeps Kibb calm. Intuitively, it makes sense to me that neither the Fighter at STR 19 (+4) nor the Barbarian at STR 20 (+5) can open the trap on their own; it is a bear trap and is designed specifically to prevent one person from opening it without tools or some other mechanical advantage. However, the two of them should be able to open it by working together. I could just hand-wave it and say they succeed with some effort and time, but I want them to feel the time pressure of Rukus and his hounds drawing near, and maybe force them to choose between readying for combat and freeing Kibb, so how do I translate this into a dice-rolling mechanic?

Aid another only gives a +2 advantage to the check, so they would not make it unless I also rule that a natural 20 rolled by the Barbarian (20+5+2) is an automatic success. Is there a better way to go about this, or something in the Rules as Written I am just not finding? If I let each of them roll and add their bonus, it becomes 2d20+9 to beat 28, and there's a decent chance they don't succeed on the first roll or two, setting up the arrival of the hounds.

Any advice? Thanks.

It's been a wee bit since I dropped in on this thread ... and it's been a bit since your posts T Rex, did your party survive Xanesha? Or did she notch her belt with another party? (She's got more than one belt full of notches...)

Hopefully your two players took losing at least one of their PC's well? (Yes, I had to go back and find the help you were referring to, and now remember your party composition of 2 PC's time 2 players for a party of 4!)

Hi Roonfizzle,

The party did indeed survive. They used the messenger ravens from the Sawmill to identify the tower's location in Underbridge, and after getting the flavor of the neighborhood and hearing increasingly disturbing rumors, they used Communal Spider Climb to scale the outside of the Clock.

This put them at full strength to go up against Xanesha, which may have been what tipped the scales in their favor, although there were also some lucky die rolls. The illusory demon caught them all off-guard, with the exception of the barbarian, who had enough time to yell "it's a trick!" before Xanesha spiked him good and hard, although he saved versus the nausea effect. The party all failed the save versus the Impaler's broader special ability and I thought I had a TPK brewing, but the party wizard was able to use his dispel magic to wipe out the effect in the next round.

Xanesha then focused her attacks on the barbarian, and was giving him the business while shifting by 5' increments. I rolled poorly for her tertiary attacks, but I was feeling nervous, as the fighter hadn't figured out how to maneuver to contact and was holding for the wizard to haste him, and I wasn't sure if the barbarian would stand up much longer if the hits started to all connect, and I had the faceless stalkers showing up in round 5.

Things shifted in the next round, however, as the barbarian chipped his way through the Mirror Images and the fighter rushed Xanesha (eating the attack of opportunity) and scored a crit. On top of that, the druid summoned an owlbear that significantly cut Xanesha's maneuvering space, although its attacks were ineffective.

After this, Xanesha tried to use the Medusa Mask on the fighter, but he made his save, and the wizard rolled really well and overcame her spell resistance with a lightning bolt. This, on top of the crit and the other damage from the barbarian and fighter, moved her from the "I should heal" range to the "Marines, we are leaving!" range of HP.

She bailed over the side of the Clock and used her feather fall, at which point the barbarian did a Peter Pan after her, but without the benefit of the spell. I did some quick math about when he would catch up to her in mid-air and grapple her, and the wizard threw down another spell (and high SR roll) that KO'ed Xanesha. Meanwhile, the druid *also* jumped over the side, but wild shaped herself into the largest eagle she could (much to the delight of her hawk animal companion) and saved the barbarian from becoming street pizza and recovered Xanesha's magically floating body.

In the aftermath, I decided that the stalkers had reached the top of the stairs while everyone was distracted with aerial drama, but upon not seeing Xanesha (and perhaps being released from her charm effect by her loss of consciousness), they decided they wanted nothing to do with the heavily armed fighter and the wizard. Upon regaining the top of the Clock, the barbarian summarily decapitated Xanesha, and the party then descended the tower, throwing her corpse down ahead of them.

The wizard, being the smartest of them, decided to use dimension door to reach the bottom of the tower with her treasure chests, at which point he was ambushed and nearly killed by the Scarecrow. He was saved by the barbarian making a nice high jump (with the aid of Aldern Foxglove's ring of jumping) and then the arrival of the druid and the fighter, who capped off his night of excellence by crit'ing the Scarecrow into the great beyond.

The party then got themselves organized while the druid wildshaped to a normal-sized bird and returned to the Kaijitsu townhouse, where she grabbed Ameiko (who has become a party friend and advisor re: Magnimar) and a cart, and returned to the Clock to load up both the Scarecrow and Xanesha's corpses (the druid had to use speak with animals and a lot of persuasion and apples to convince the horse).

They had a lot of nice roleplay with the Lord Mayor and some NPCs I had made earlier for Tsuto's trial (other judges from the tribunal that Ironbriar sat on), and they are now prepping for their journey to Turtleback Ferry. Overall, my players (my family) really enjoyed the fight as a set piece and said they were worried they would all be killed, so I think I got the balance right, even if the tide of battle turned quickly against Xanesha based on a couple of rolls. Let's see how they fare in the next book!

Only one mixed-up calculation there - Xanesha fights while size Large, decreasing her ranged attack accuracy by 1.

Also, I want to point out that with her superior mobility, high saves, high Touch AC, and SR, Xanesha has very little to fear from your typical spellcasters. Their most powerful option is to buff martial characters who can beat her AC - which they can't do if those martial characters are dead or petrified. Both on a tactical level (dealing with her primary threats) and gameplay level (frontliners are made to take damage), if Xanesha opens with a full-attack, I recommend she go for a front-line, d10 character, preferably one with a low Will.

Sounds like you've got a good understanding of her abilities though! Best of luck.

Thanks for the correction on her size, Askar. Since she is size Large due to length (the snake body) rather than height, she only takes up two 5' squares like a tiger, correct? As opposed to an ogre, whose base takes up four squares (two by two)?

I'm pumped for this fight!

You’ve calculated the spell touch attack correctly. It’s designed to miss rarely, since it’s limited uses per day and may provoke an AoO and be interrupted if someone gets close.

Yes, reach weapons and combat reflexes are a classic combo. Remember the “donut” problem though.

Should be an exciting battle! One of my favourite set-pieces of the whole AP.

Thanks for the feedback!

What is the "donut" problem? The 5' range ring?

A Query About Xanesha, Scorching Ray, and the Impaler of Thorns (Reach Weapon Rules and Tactics)

Greetings to all,

I posted here a while back asking for mid-level development guidance for some of my players’ characters. Thanks again to Askar Avari and Roonfizzle Garnackle for their advice. My campaign has reached the Shadow Clock, and depending on how they approach it (literally), my players may find themselves facing off against Xanesha in the next session.

My habit for the combat encounters is to make a cheat sheet/stat block page for each monster, whether from the Adventure Path (AP) or the various Bestiaries, with notes about their respective powersets and the suggested tactics from the book (the Anniversary Edition). In writing out Xanesha, I came across two areas where I was not sure how the rules worked and how that would affect her tactical choices.

First, regarding Scorching Ray. Xanesha can cast this up to seven times per day (six for this combat, assuming one spell at this level has already gone toward one casting of Invisibility). Reading the spell description, I see that at CL6 she gets one ray as a touch attack to do 4d6 damage to a target. This seems like a pretty good option if she feels the need to reach out and touch a PC who is hanging back out of melee range in order to cause trouble – most likely the Druid or the Wizard (assuming her survives her sneak attack, as I feel she is from the school of “Kill the magic user first”). My trouble is in calculating her to hit roll: her BAB is listed as +12 and her DEX bonus (for ability score 25) is +7. Am I correct in thinking that she gets a +19 to hit on the Scorching Ray attack roll? If so, she is going to hit everyone in the party on everything except a natural one, with the exception of the fighter, whom she will hit on three or higher (85% success). Am I calculating the ranged touch attack roll correctly (i.e., BAB+DEX Bonus+d20 roll)? A nearly automatic 4-24 damage is a lot for four 7th level PCs! I do not want to take away a significant ability from Xanesha, but I also don’t want to nuke my PCs. Any advice?

Secondly, I have a question regarding the Impaler of Thorns (as a reach weapon) and Xensha’s likely melee tactics. The AP tactics have Xanesha using Major Image to create the illusion of a demon as a distraction, and then use her Invisibility approach a PC (per the above, I have designated the Wizard as the literal stuckee) and make a sneak attack. Fine and good – she will make the attack at her full +17 bonus and jam the Impaler between the Wizard’s shoulder blades on anything except a natural one (and given her preparations and the importance of the fight, I would probably DM handwave the roll and just give her the hit). She will do her 1d8+8+1d6 damage (10-22 assuming no crit), pancake the Wizard, and we deal with the Impaler’s special ability – all PCs will save versus despair at 16 for what is very likely to be the whole combat, and the Wizard will make a second save at 16 to avoid being nauseated for a round. Xanesha will snarl something appropriately cinematic which I will make up, and then the fight is on.

Written tactics have her fighting in melee and saving the Medusa’s Mask petrify ability for one particularly troublesome foe. She has a very strong set of attacks for the full-round action (+17/+12/+7) and can certainly deal a lot of damage to either or both of the melee-oriented PCs (Fighter and Barbarian). My question comes when these two PCs, and probably one or more Nature’s Allies summoned by the Druid (Team Owlbear for the win!) attempt to close with Xanesha and turn her into Snake Surprise. If I have read her stat block and the rules correctly, after she will be able to (in any order) deal out her three attacks to opponents in the 10’ range ring and also take a five foot step to adjust or restore range. Every time a PC or summoned animal moves from the 10’ ring to the 5’ ring of squares (unless as a five-foot step), Xanesha will get an Attack of Opportunity (AoO) – thanks to Combat Reflexes, she has up to seven per round, and with a CMD of 35, no one is using Acrobatics to evade the AoO, not even the Barbarian with the maxed ranks and the Ring of Jumping, unless they roll a 20, which they would probably rather have as their attack roll.

Again, this seems very strong: unless she is either grappled (by an Owlbear, perhaps) or the PCs are able to box her in against the “sides” of Area E6 (which is only 5x6 or 6x7 squares, with the Angel statue supported from above per p. 123 and so not cutting off movement through the middle of the map), she will continue to shift by five feet, round after round, and deal out three attacks from the full attack plus (possibly) one AoO per opponent if they are doing any movement other than the five foot step to close from the 10’ ring to the 5’ ring to make their own full round attack. She wil not be able to attack an opponent who is in the 5’ ring and is thus inside her reach, but everyone else is fair game. Am I connecting the rule sets on AoO, reach weapons, and full attacks correctly? If so, I am concerned that action economy might not save my melee fighters, especially since they will have to chip through the mirror images to do reliable damage to Xanesha. Of course, a lucky critical hit could always turn the tide, but crits could also break her way, and she has cure serious wounds (9-30 points of healing) and can always slither for it if things go very badly.

All in all, I understand that as a CR9 encounter, she is meant to be very difficult to defeat, and I know that she was toned down significantly for the Anniversary Edition to reduce the TPK factor. I just want to make certain that I have set things up correctly so that I am a) following the rules and b) giving my players a fair shot at beating her as intended by the Paizo authors. Has anyone else gotten this far into the weeds on tactical movement for this encounter?

Thanks, Askar and Roonfizzle! These are great suggestions. I really appreciate the advice.

Regarding the content that enters in during Book 3 and 5, I think I can modify as needed to keep it age-appropriate (my son is 10 now). I recorded young adult versions of the Iliad and the Odyssey for him when he was an infant, and we've raised him on a steady diet of Norse myths and the Arthur mythos, so the violence is less a problem than the adult content.

We started Pathfinder about a year ago with the Beginner Box adventure (using the druid and the fighter), and kicked off Rise of the Runelords about 9 months ago, so I figure we have over a year at minimum until Book 5 begins. Plenty of time to modify.

Greetings to all,

Although this question is perhaps applicable to any of the Pathfinder First Edition Adventure Paths, I am posting this to the Rise of the Runelords forum as my group and I are in the midst of this AP currently. If there is another sub-forum where this could be cross-posted, please advise.

I am a first-time GM running the Anniversary Edition of ROTRL for two first-time players (my wife and son). They are each running two characters: a gnome Druid and a human Wizard (Evoker); and a half-Elf Fighter and a half-orc Invulnerable Rager Barbarian, respectively. We are having a great time with all the roleplay and I have added additional NPCs and interactions in Sandpoint to give it the feel of an Old West boomtown and really anchor the party’s attachment to the town and its people. The party has just hit level 6 and started the Misgivings last night (I prefer to have them level up between segments rather than during).

With the above said, I am somewhat out to see on how to guide the development of the caster characters (my wife’s). While I have played a lot of different RPGs over the years (homebrew AD&D, White Wolf, Chaosium, Shadowrun), I was always a player and never a GM, and I almost always played some type of fighter (duellist, paladin) or martial cleric and usually ended up being the party face based on personality and a willingness to grab onto or provide plot hooks. I never had to think (much) about spells per day, spell books, items to enhance casting abilities, etc.

I have what I think is a good handle on the Pathfinder 1E “feat tree” for the combat feats and rage powers, and I am comfortable suggesting new gear for the fighters, such as having the half-orc sacrifice three captured +1 weapons from Book One to Gorum to give his double axe three randomly rolled properties (+1 enhancement on each head plus keen). For my magic users, though, I am at a loss beyond suggesting preparation of potions or scrolls for single spells and the purchase (or now creation) of wands for favorite spells (a big thank you to all the folks on these boards who suggested making wands of cure light wounds available on the market in Sandpoint and Magnimar).

Now that the characters are hitting middle levels and their abilities are really blossoming, I want to make sure I don’t accidentally trap the casters with selections of feats, spells, and gear that will hurt their ability to contribute to the party and the story at higher levels in the later books. I have spoken with my wife about using her characters’ powers for battlefield control and buffs/de-buffs, so we are not just focused on fireballs and lightning bolts (although I have to admit those are fun), but any advice on specific progressions or gear would be greatly appreciated. I can read ahead in the AP and see when the party is set to acquire various loot or substantial cash, but if I don’t know what to tell her to look for in the market, her characters won’t be able to ask – an unknown unknown.

Thanks for reading this far and providing all the great resources already on these pages – I am making heavy use of several of the community created items for the Misgivings and I think they will be a big hit.

TL;DR: How does a first-time GM who never played a magic user guide a first-time player so her druid and wizard stay awesome through the whole AP?