Now its reached the Isle of Dread (and bringing up nostalgic memories of running that module 15 years ago!), I'm potentially interested in running the campaign.
Is anyone running it already? Hows it going? Encountered any problems or discrepancies? Are you having fun?
I'm also wondering what optional books to include. I'd definately like to include Rakasta as a potential PC race, any idea where I might find them?
Thx.
SJE
Judging from the posts on here, I'd say lots of people are running it. I am two sessions in, the PC's are currently trapped under Parrot Island. They just had a very tough battle with three ravenous zombies and have boarded themselves up in a room to rest. They leveled up, which should help with the rest.
The rakastas have never been updated to 3.5, so you'll probably have to do that yourself. I'm pretty sure there's a thread on here somewhere about it.
As far as books, the main one I would suggest is Stormwrack. It's got great rules for aquatic encounters, and some of the monsters in STAP are from that book. Of course they include their stats in the magazine, but the book has a lot of other stuff going for it too.
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Almost finished TINH.
They cleaned up the LD guild halls, at the notable exception of the ixitxs & the 3 rhagodessas...
They guess there is more to see (they have not explored the crucible !).
However, the 6 of them are now 3rd level PCs, so it won't be such a tough match (I'll see).
None of them has died as of yet (some were pretty close : I can remember at least 3 moments when there was 1 or 2 PCs at -4 or worse...).
We're playing what I hope is the last session (#7.5, roughly) of TINH, tonight.
They've entered the guildhall and taken down (so far) nine LDs, including a very tough fight last session against the six in the training room. They're making some noise about heading into Kellani Manor tonight, on the assumption that Rowyn bailed on the guildhall.
We've had do deaths, but PCs have dropped several times, mostly the dwarf rogue 1/fighter 1, who has had an amazing string of bad luck. (That player bought himself new dice for Christmas, so he's hoping that's behind him.)
My goal is to get us on track for BG by the end of the evening.
We're going to start this saturday... 5 Characters... 1 sorcerer, 1 dwarven battle sorcerer, 1 elf Wee Jas Cleric, 1 suel Psionic Warrior and 1 Focused Evoker!!
Where's the tank in this group?!?! We'll see how they work together
Nanmaniac
We're going to start this saturday... 5 Characters... 1 sorcerer, 1 dwarven battle sorcerer, 1 elf Wee Jas Cleric, 1 suel Psionic Warrior and 1 Focused Evoker!!
Where's the tank in this group?!?! We'll see how they work together
Nanmaniac
I would have to say the tank is the Psychic Warrior. :D
We're going to start this saturday... 5 Characters... 1 sorcerer, 1 dwarven battle sorcerer, 1 elf Wee Jas Cleric, 1 suel Psionic Warrior and 1 Focused Evoker!!
Where's the tank in this group?!?! We'll see how they work together
Nanmaniac
If the Psychic Warrior multi-classes and picks up two levels of fighter along the way he'll make a mighty fine tank. A little low on hp but there are a number of powers that can help with that by either raising his AC or giving him temporary hps to work with.
I've been running this AP with 5 PC's so far, and there have been some close calls. We're still running TINH after 3 sessions but we should finish up by the 4th.
After the Blue Nixie fight, and having no cleric in the party, the group wisely took my advice and purchased a wand of CLW. They have been using it like crazy and will probably have used up about 1/2 the charges by the end of this adventure.
I've been feening to run the other adventures that follow this one but I am really hoping to make the Rowyn fight memorable, so I've been watching the PC's tactics closely.
The group is having a blast though, they love it.
We are finishing up the Bully Wug Gambit hopefully on Thursday. TINH was the worst the first fight on the boat, very nearly TPKed them, but one finally got lucky and they survived, after that they got a bit more paranoid, Parrot Isle made them really dislike Vanthus, and after the Guild they wanted to hunt him down. They actually did something similar to what one of the other DM's mentioned a few months ago, they by pure chance (rolling dice as left or right etc) ended up going pretty much directly to Rowyn and after that fight high tailed out out, with only taking out about 8 Lotus Dragons.
So far they are still a major force in the town and will be reocurring thing based on some other things they have done. So not sure how that is going to play out.
The Cove, was pretty freaky to them, i think i played it up enough to get them creeped out, and now the no longer want to bring Vanthus to justice they all want to kill him.
The group has gotten pretty big, 2 Wizards, a Rogue/Swah, a Fighter, a Driud, a Warblade, and a Healer, all but 1 a PC.
I think they are enjoying it, so in that respects it is good.
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Tonight was the first night, and it went really really well. About half of it was stuff I'd written up to get everyone's feet wet (literally, they were on board a ship), and have an encounter with some sahuagin. Then they got on shore, spent some shore leave time, and met with Lavinia. They are going to have the Blue Nixie encounter next week. Looks to be a good time. :)
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will be holding my 2nd session of the sea wyvern's wake this sat, and i have to say this is a lot of fun to run.
highlights:
2 deaths...the cleric met his end at the point of multiple sneak attacking rogues the Lotus Dragon hideout
and the bard was decapitated by Drevoraz the 1/2 orc 1st mate.
the changeling rogue/psion is happy as a clam impersonating Rowyn (just gutted her on the Sea Wyvern after the party subdued her) and using the captain's cabin as the team's office/alchemical/arcane lab
the ranger w/ hidden talent (and 1 lvl of psion) is having a grand time lighting his enemies, allies, and boats on fire, and looking forward to those first levels of pyrokineticist
the dwarven monk just had his night on the town with 4 drunken masters (Gimli, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Samurai Jack, with different names)...he made quite a good showing of himself, and is quite thrilled.
the cleric (raised with some of Lavinia's money from the LD chests) just hit lvl 5 (barely) and is on a quest to find more undead to incinerate. can't wait till he meets the "honored ancestors" and the spiritual leaders on the isle of dread
the warmage is blasting the crap out of everything with her 9-hp damage cantrips, and i forsee will be the next to die. :)
and the bard has shifted off this mortal coil, being replaced with Torin, the human ranger from the iconic 4. since Liamae got her head smushed in by the bullywug chief, the Jade Ravens kind of lost it...
so,6 players, all insane, with a pyro, a zealot, a drug-addicted-poison-making-teleporter, a drunken grappling dwarf, a machine-gun-warmage, and a soon-to-be tempest, I have my hands full.
LOVE the adventures so far, and i can't wait to introduce them to the horrors that are the abyss and the isle of dread!
-the hamster
Players about to storm their way into the Vanderboren Manor in TBG.
All are having a great time, 7 grown men taking nearly every wed night to hang out and play D&D. My players are all really stoked.
TINH was fun- Parrot Isle dropped 2 pc's, and Rowan fast talked her way out of a fight and evacuated the guild hall while the players had a HUGE argument about joining her. The wizard and swashbuckler heard her out while the 1/2ling scout, ranger, and 1/2 orc barb and druid brothers made off with the flagged map.
Upon return to the Vanderboren estate, the map staling group accused the ones who parleyed with Rowan of being turn cloaks.
I just sat back and watched as they fought it out!!!
The BWG has been HACK-A-LISHOUS. They tried to FIGHT Harliss. !!
She dropped the 1/2 orc barb with one feint ans robbed the rest of them BLIND. The wizard's player was so bummed when she took his spellbook at sword point!!
Anyway this AP has been big fun!!
We're going to start this saturday... 5 Characters... 1 sorcerer, 1 dwarven battle sorcerer, 1 elf Wee Jas Cleric, 1 suel Psionic Warrior and 1 Focused Evoker!!
Where's the tank in this group?!?! We'll see how they work together
NanmaniacIf the Psychic Warrior multi-classes and picks up two levels of fighter along the way he'll make a mighty fine tank. A little low on hp but there are a number of powers that can help with that by either raising his AC or giving him temporary hps to work with.
Actually, he's getting the crimson blade evolution (psy warr/fighter). He got the idea from the Splintered Mind society.
Nanmaniac
Just started it Monday. There's a bunch of kids in the party, all playing pirate. It's like the Little Rascals, only more violent.
M human duskblade (age 15)
M human warlock (age 16)
M goblin wu jen (age 12)
M dwarf fighter (age 30)
M elan psionic rogue (age 3200-ish, looks 13)
They also saved a hell hound puppy from the burning hold of the Blue Nixie and don't know what to do with it.
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We are in TBG at the tail end of the Cove. Yeah my guys pretty much want to dice vanthus up into tiny little pieces and use him for bait. The group I have is really pretty methodical about how they go about adventuring. Most of us have played together for MANY MANY YEARS so we have a pretty good sence of how to work with eachother. I have to do a bit of extra work to hurry them along though but still it's fun. On the Blue Nixie for instance the sneaky long range PC's snuck in, climbed up the Aft end of the boat while the tanks boarded the Bow, not very stealthily I might add. This was on purpose though. It drew the DL's attention to the front of the ship so that when combat broke out the long range guys could pick the DL's off from behind. They took the boss down half HP before he even got close to the tanks. They didn't capture him though. He jumped ship before they could do that.
We have a monk that went streight for the hold of the ship though. I had to tweek the spidery thing encounter a bit as he got there just as the guy below heard the battle and was going to start the fires. I kept the big beasty in the cage while the monk and the DL were in combat. Once the Monk finished the DL off I told him that the big nasty spider had been violently slamming the cage and that it looked like it wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 more slams for it to be free. As luck would have it while this was going on the guys up top finished the battle and went down into the hold. The one spellcaster was able to cast mend on the cage and keep the spider (I say spider cause I can't remember how to spell the things name >8P ) at bay. The following day I had the dude from the Taxadermist guild show up with a couple of DL lackeys saying that Lavinia had sent him to take care of the pest problem. They were going to try and retrieve the spider and take it back to the DL hideout. I conveniently had one of the DL's get too close and get grappled by the spider. This started the spider's thrashing again and the cage kinda falls apart then forcing the group into combat with the spider as they would have been in the night before and finishing the encounter.
Anyways I finally had my first PC death this past weekend. We have a psion that kinda fell to his death. The group didn't want to try going down to the beach at the cove via the bridge. They felt it would be too dangerous. They tied a knotted rope to a good sturdy anchor and the group climbed down. The Psion didn't make his first climb check and fell the 40 feet to the bottom. Unfortunately he had also forgotten to heal up after the monkey battle.
All in all it's going very well and we are loving it. Sorry to be so long winded.
It's going "ok". It didn't start out as exciting as AoW, but my party hated that near the end of our campaign. The lotus Dragon's lair was the silliest dungeon for a group of rogues. When they prefer flanking and sneaking, why is there nothing but doors and 5' hallways? I boosted a lot of rogues to 2nd and even 3rd level and my group still marched right up to Rowyn's lair, knocked her out and marched back out. I added an exciting warehouse "shoot out" at the end to break up the dullness. Gambit is going better, despite 3 PC deaths slowing down the pace and making the story line a lot more fragile. I'm considering a bit of a boost in treasure just to lower the death toll a bit compared to AoW. My group is still level 3 going in to rescue Lavinia and there's multiple CR 5 and 6 encounters!.
Midway through Here There Be Monsters: Olangru just taunted the PCs openly on the cliffs.
Pretty good so far, the druid felt a little railroaded by some of the aspects of Journey's End in Sea Wyvern's wake, at least in regards to getting stuck there. Getting out wasn't an issue, because there were a few ways to do it.
Ice Troll Fighter, Human Sorc (Cold Specialization), Aventi Druid/Barbarian, Dwarven Cleric. Strong mix, especially the cold aspect. Druid is feeling a little left out of the melee, thinking of ditching the character for a bow focused Olman ranger.
So far, an excellent path, I just wish I could slow the group down as a whole, have more downtime and inter-party interaction. But thats my group, not the path.
Our group is in Tides of Dread. It is going great so far.
Observations so far: Druid rocks in this AP, particularly The Sea Wyvern's Wake, Here There Be Monsters and Tides of Dread in particular. My Druid player is really happy and has been the MVP for Tides of Dread.
Warning: If you are using the Spell Compendium, you might want to make changes to Ray of Stupidity. As written, it doesn't allow any saving throw and the intelligence damage doesn't have a minimum value it can't reduce intelligence below(like an int score of 1) which makes the spell a dinosaur killer (Zero Int = Unconcious). I had to modify the spell to rule it can't lower Int below 1.
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Warning: If you are using the Spell Compendium, you might want to make changes to Ray of Stupidity. As written, it doesn't allow any saving throw and the intelligence damage doesn't have a minimum value it can't reduce intelligence below(like an int score of 1) which makes the spell a dinosaur killer (Zero Int = Unconcious). I had to modify the spell to rule it can't lower Int below 1.
awww....that takes all the fun out of having the one good anti-stupid bashing-monster spell on hand.
a personal fav of mine, i might add, especially in a wand in the hands of a gnomish beguiler/mindbender....(int score + rays that do int damage = almost as good as having a hp-meter! :) )
-the hamster
>>>>awww....that takes all the fun out of having the one good anti-stupid bashing-monster spell on hand.<<<<
Ordinarily, I would agree. But given the potential number of dino and animal random encounters in HtBM and ToD and the certainty of a CR 11 dino encounter in ToD, the fact that a mere 2nd level spell is a certain "I WIN!" for those encounters makes it a problem for those two adventures.
The BWG has been HACK-A-LISHOUS. They tried to FIGHT Harliss. !!
She dropped the 1/2 orc barb with one feint ans robbed the rest of them BLIND. The wizard's player was so bummed when she took his spellbook at sword point!!Anyway this AP has been big fun!!
MWWAAAHHAAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!
Thanks for making my day. :-)
Man, what a session last night. The group finally got to Rowyn and after exchanging a few quips, refused her offer and began the grand melee.
Gut Tugger went first and flanked the PC Monk, Rowyn was next and scored a sneak attack for 17 damage on the poor monk, dropping him to -1. The LE warlock in the group then shouted "draw them out, fall back" but the group didn't listen and the druid healed the monk back to 3 hp. On the monk's turn, while still lying in a pool of his own blood, he reached into his belt pounch and smashed the elemental earth gem!
After that the battle belonged to the PC's. The earth elemental was squeezed into the room, so his attacks and AC were penalized, but he still ended up killing Rowyn in 2-3 rounds. But not before they took down the monk again :P
Unfortunately I didn't see the note about Rowyn surviving so she can be used later in the AP, so I'll have to do some extra DM work there to figure out what happens to her and how to replace her or re-use her.
[Quote/]Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
Unfortunately I didn't see the note about Rowyn surviving so she can be used later in the AP, so I'll have to do some extra DM work there to figure out what happens to her and how to replace her or re-use her
Don't sweat it. Rowyn not surviving is factored in and in the adventure The Sea Wyvern's Wake (her next appearance), there is number of suggestions of what could be done if she didn't survive the first adventure.
[Quote/]Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
Unfortunately I didn't see the note about Rowyn surviving so she can be used later in the AP, so I'll have to do some extra DM work there to figure out what happens to her and how to replace her or re-use her
IMC I also let the PCs kill Rowyn. I kept her around 1 round to many. One of my players was running a nephew to Mericanchi, and died in BWG. He wants to bring in a new character, so I'm using the res idea to bring his old character back as an NPC: a pissed off NPC who feels he was cheated out of his share of the Sea Wyvren. This will double the number of Meravanchis in SWW.
Long story short, the stowaway angle is too great to pass up. I am replacing Rowyn with Neiman Roblach the taxedermist. He went invisible when the PCs confronted him, and they literally held the door open for him to escape. He's going to be a Illusionist5/Rogue1 (from his time on the steet dodging leftover Lotus Dragons), unless I come up with something more cool.
We're a few sessions in, and it's going pretty well. We've had a few close calls, but no PC deaths yet. The PCs just roleplayed through the final banquet in "There Is No Honor", and we're starting "The Bullywug Gambit tonight.
Oh dear.
We're on a break while two of the players get pizza. They haven't even reached Kraken's Cove yet and three of the PCs have gotten Savage Fever from those damn monkeys. That leaves the party member with the highest intelligence...the fighter. A truly discomforting notion.
They had so much trouble with the monkeys, I'm expecting a TPK once they reach the heavy hitters later tonight. Or I suppose it's this morning by now. Oh well. I'll probably be posting on the Obituaries thread by this afternoon.
We are one session in SWW. Those vicious red caps in Fort Blackwell killed the barbarian so the PCs headed back to Sasserine to get her raised by Annah Teranaki. The players enjoyed the hours of roleplay but were shocked by the "sudden" death of Orba.
The first half of BG was a hard time for a group who lacked a magic weapon, a serious healer and with a beguiler being the only arcane spellcaster. But the encounter with Harliss with great! The group's wannabe casanova tried his luck with the fierce swordswoman to no avail.
TINH was also a nice adventure to introduce the PCs to Sasserine, a city I absolutely fell in love with. It is too sad that they won't experience any more adventures in this lovely city. Anyway the perhaps greatest time our group had was under parrot island. The fight with Rowyn was poor, too short and frustrating for the PCs with Lady Lotus escaping.
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Gut Tugger went first and flanked the PC Monk, Rowyn was next and scored a sneak attack for 17 damage on the poor monk, dropping him to -1. The LE warlock in the group then shouted "draw them out, fall back" but the group didn't listen and the druid healed the monk back to 3 hp. On the monk's turn, while still lying in a pool of his own blood, he reached into his belt pounch and smashed the elemental earth gem!
My group used the elemental against Rowyn as well. Good to see that others chose this tactic as well.
Another thing that has helped my group is the use of Mage Armour. They were able to use the wand that was found earlier in the adventure (where I don't remember right off the top of my head). It worked so well for them, particularly for the front liners, that they picked up another one with full charges in between adventures. It's gotten to the point that on a one to one basis I need Crits to hit most of the group. Now through the creative use of flanking and aiding in combat I've been able to slightly lessen the effectivness of the Mage Armour. They should be coming up to Harliss in the next game. I will be interested to see what they do with her.
Another thing that has helped my group is the use of Mage Armour. They were able to use the wand that was found earlier in the adventure (where I don't remember right off the top of my head). It worked so well for them, particularly for the front liners, that they picked up another one with full charges in between adventures. It's gotten to the point that on a one to one basis I need Crits to hit most of the group. Now through the creative use of flanking and aiding in combat I've been able to slightly lessen the effectivness of the Mage Armour. They should be coming up to Harliss in the next game. I will be interested to see what they do with her.
I hope you are aware that the AC-bonus from mage armor doesn't stack with any other armor bonus. So a fighter in full plate won't really profit from that spell, at least as far as I know.
Well just about wrapped up TINH for my group after an exhausting but fun 8 hour session. Overall my players liked the story so far, though there were a few complaints about cleaning out the L.D Thieves Guild. They weathered the Dead end ally ambush pretty well and no one ever failed their poison save. They managed to capture one of the thieves and actually with the help of a powerful contact from the Dawn Counsel (House Knowlorn) managed to get a map of the dungeon.
They were hesitant on the idea of bringing down a “Big City” Thieves Guild and did feel a little “Railroaded” but realized if they didn’t they’d have to continuously fight off attempts by the L.D to silence them. Although my own personal twist was making a 1/3 of L.Ds 2nd level and equipping them with Heavy Repeating Crossbows. If anyone is about to run their players through it Id advise you to tone down the ambush encounter at ( D25 )by lowering the number of attackers or giving them daggers if you have less then 6 P.Cs or have no healers. That single encounter can easily become a TPK.
I’m particularly proud of my players for actually listening to Rowyn’s attempt to hire them. They politely declined then demanded her to hand over Vanthus, which surprised her. “That it?” she said blinking confusedly, ”That’s all you want? Your NOT here to bring down my guild or bring me to justice?” When the P.Cs stated all they wanted was Vanthus and her word to leave Lavinia alone. Rowyn shrugged figuring it better to sell out her lover then potentially lose her life and /or the rest of her guild, and handed them Vanthus’ letter if the P.C would likewise leave her and the rest of guild alone.
Now final tally ended up with the P.C killing a little more than half the Lotus Dragons and Rowyn still alive and in charge. So I’m going to state that the L.Ds have been weakened to the point where they can no longer keep their hold on the Docks of the city and are no longer the top contender for controlling thieves’ guild. Other guilds sensing opportunity began to battle each other for control and all out inter guild war breaks out on the streets and back alleys of Sasserine.(think Chicago in the 30’s gang war).
I figure I can run a couple of side quests role play for an adventure or two then start The Bullywug Gambit.
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I hope you are aware that the AC-bonus from mage armor doesn't stack with any other armor bonus. So a fighter in full plate won't really profit from that spell, at least as far as I know.
Well Mage Armour gives a +4 Armour Bonus, much like Scale Male gives a +4 Armour Bonus and a Shield might give a +1 Armour Bonus. Armour Bonuses of the same type do stack. So how does Mage Armour not stack with Armour and Shield AC Bonuses, as they read as being the same type of Armour Bonus?
If Mage armour doesn't stack then the armour bonus from a shield and armour wouldn't stack either. There wouldn't be any point to using a shield combined with Armour and that just isn't the case.
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Well Mage Armour gives a +4 Armour Bonus, much like Scale Male gives a +4 Armour Bonus and a Shield might give a +1 Armour Bonus. Armour Bonuses of the same type do stack. So how does Mage Armour not stack with Armour and Shield AC Bonuses, as they read as being the same type of Armour Bonus?
If Mage armour doesn't stack then the armour bonus from a shield and armour wouldn't stack either. There wouldn't be any point to using a shield combined with Armour and that just isn't the case.
You see that's what happens when you get old and your trying to keep multiple RPG books/rules in your head. You tend to either read things incorrectly and or confuse the plethora of rules your trying to keep streight. Luckily with age also comes the increased ability to admit when you are wrong about a rule.
Now how to go back to my group, who have been playing as long as I have and should have known better as well, and break it to them that they are screwed 8)
Although if you think about it, as the text states that Mage Armour creates an intangible, invisible field around the target. One wonders why you wouldn't be able to use it in conjunction with armour? I mean it's a field that exists around the PC. They arn't wearing it. Seems that it should work. Oh well
...Although if you think about it, as the text states that Mage Armour creates an intangible, invisible field around the target. One wonders why you wouldn't be able to use it in conjunction with armour? I mean it's a field that exists around the PC. They arn't wearing it. Seems that it should work. Oh well
Perhaps my old 1st edition brain has been wrongly interpreting the 3.5 rule, but I believe it DOES stack. Metal/leather/hide Armor is an "armor bonus" but *Mage Armor* is a "deflection bonus."
((Ie. Deflection BonusA deflection bonus affects Armor Class and is granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other deflection bonuses. A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.))
So I have always treated *Mage Armor* as stackable with "regular" armor.
(And it's my Campaign and that's the way I'll keep seeing it!) :->
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...Although if you think about it, as the text states that Mage Armour creates an intangible, invisible field around the target. One wonders why you wouldn't be able to use it in conjunction with armour? I mean it's a field that exists around the PC. They arn't wearing it. Seems that it should work. Oh wellPerhaps my old 1st edition brain has been wrongly interpreting the 3.5 rule, but I believe it DOES stack. Metal/leather/hide Armor is an "armor bonus" but *Mage Armor* is a "deflection bonus."
((Ie. Deflection Bonus
A deflection bonus affects Armor Class and is granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other deflection bonuses. A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.))So I have always treated *Mage Armor* as stackable with "regular" armor.
(And it's my Campaign and that's the way I'll keep seeing it!) :->
Mage Armor grants an Armor bonus, which doesn't stack with other armour bonuses (but does stack with shield bonuses).
But as you say, its your campaign, you can play it the way you want to.
Of course every group or DM should decide which rules they incorporate into their campaign and which not. But a first level spell giving a +4 armor bonus to a warrior-type character already wearing a good armor is too much. Let's he wears an armor giving him +4 armor bonus to his AC, he wears a large shield and gets another +2 from dexterity this would make for a (in my eyes) mighty AC of 22 on first level. Hard to hit. Perhaps too hard for most of the CR 1 monsters. Sure from player's perspective they are not to hit anyway but behind m screen I don't think so!
Running a pair of parties through on the internet, one group has just left Lavinia's, and the others are just about to board the Nixie, once I have all their climb/swim/move silently checks.
The first party, the one just leaving Lavinia's, had some issues with a player, their mage. He's disappeared, so they're plodding on reguardless, and I'll introduce a new 'un during the battle for the Nixie.
The second party spend a lot of time planning. They have a 14 year old sorceress in the party, and were planning on using her at a distraction while the rest boarded, or having their dwarven rogue chase her down the pier to get the surprise on em. However, in the end they decided against it, after a long time planning. Funny, but their rogue is refusing to kill the pirates, so he got a sap. I just think it's funny.
Chris
I am not running Savage Tide, and I didn't run Age of Worms either.
RANT MODE ON
Majority of these adventure paths are (sorry for those who like them, that's my opinion) horribly boring crap, except few things like "Prince of Redhand" for AoW- a great original adventure ,even before reading the end of an installment you already know what the plot is, and most of the time "scenario" in paizo's adventure paths mean "stupidest monster collection ever, trapped in the usual boring dungeon , meant to allow you to reach next level"...
RANT MODE OFF
I never got excited about all of this and don't really know why dms/gamers are so into it. Could somebody explain me what's so great about this? What's so cool compared to true diamonds like the Marco Volo trilogy or the Temple of Elemental Evil (by the way the only dungeon I ever found appealing and interesting)
PS: Apart from that, I really enjoy reading Dungeon and Dragon, gave me lots of ideas, but it's definitely a "NO" from me for the adventure paths that are proposed.
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I am not running Savage Tide, and I didn't run Age of Worms either.
RANT MODE ON
Majority of these adventure paths are (sorry for those who like them, that's my opinion) horribly boring crap, except few things like "Prince of Redhand" for AoW- a great original adventure ,even before reading the end of an installment you already know what the plot is, and most of the time "scenario" in paizo's adventure paths mean "stupidest monster collection ever, trapped in the usual boring dungeon , meant to allow you to reach next level"...
RANT MODE OFF
I never got excited about all of this and don't really know why dms/gamers are so into it. Could somebody explain me what's so great about this? What's so cool compared to true diamonds like the Marco Volo trilogy or the Temple of Elemental Evil (by the way the only dungeon I ever found appealing and interesting)
I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your opinion is not wrong. *end disclaimer*
I have been playing in a Shackled City campaign....Love It! Great Roleplay possibilities, fun NPCs, challenging combat. I Love It!I have been reading and preparing to run a Savage Tide campaign.....Love It! A return to Isle of Dread, Pirates, Dinosaurs, Great NPCs, Wonderful Roleplay Opportunities, Challenging combat situations.
I don't understand how you came to the conclusions you have but I fear you are either jaded due to the level progression of 3.5, or are not reading the adventures thoroughly enough to see the true value they contain.
I have been gaming since 1979-80, not that that makes me an expert or makes my opinion better than some others, and I haven't seen adventures of this quality and value since the late 80's or early 90's. There are a few shining exceptions in between then and the last 3-4 years.
Everybody that I have gamed with since the Adventure Paths have came along has nothing but great opinions of these adventures and most have been gaming 15+ years. I have a newer group with a couple of relatively new gamers in it (1-2 years) and they have nothing but praise for the Paths.
I can't really explain to you why you don't like the Paths but I doubt it is the quality or "boring crap". I feel like you have an underlying reason to dislike these jewels that you haven't expressed or even know about yourself. The vast majority of people I know love to eat Snow Crab. If you don't like Snow Crab, I can't explain to you why, I can only tell you that my experiences are different and why.
That is what I did.
FH
Thanks for your post.
When I think about it, I think it comes from my defiance and disgust for dungeons, the "door-monster-treasure" syndrome that I absolutely dislike and that empty scenarios of all substance in favor of unrealistic monster gathering and bashing.
I think it's not better in any way with the APs. Wht the hell this stupid dinosaur is doing in the pirates hideout in Savage Tide. Why these stupid sick pirates are all hiding in several rooms ? Nonsense all the way...
They even succeed in transforming possibly interesting areas , like the isle - don't remember the name- in AoW into a giant open-air dungeon, with of course the big baaaadd monsters in the end to bash.... Such a complete lack of creativity and childish resolutions are laughable....I don't say that these scenes should be cut , they can be freekin cool like all good old scenes.
But writers should come up with interesting or at least twisted versions.
Take a giant , for example, and his cave. Well, Ad.Paths and 90% of D&D scenarios I red will tell you : "You enter, you kill the f$+@er and you loot his treasure".
Funny when you're a newbie, utterly boring when experienced.
Because a stupid giant and his cave could turn into the greatest RP/climax scene in all the world !!! Example : well, the giant is married and he has 7 nice daughters, and his wife lets the PC in because she has a good heart and she wants to hide them from his husband. While hiding, the PC will see the giant hugging his lovely daughters, and must get out/have to kill the giant because of a bounty from the human kingdom....Tensions, moral dilemnas, strange scenes where monsters get "fleshier" than the walking XP they are...
I want some juice in my D&D! You see my point?
Thanks for your post.
When I think about it, I think it comes from my defiance and disgust for dungeons, the "door-monster-treasure" syndrome that I absolutely dislike and that empty scenarios of all substance in favor of unrealistic monster gathering and bashing.
Dude, if you dont like the Adventure Path concept, why on earth are you posting to the Adventure Path forum? Why threadcrap all over the discussion of the people who are enjoying it and getting something out of it?
If you want to campaign against Adventure Paths in Dungeon, maybe you should write a letter to the editor or use the general Dungeon forums?
SJE
Because I'd like to know why everybody is so positive about it and because this concept could be really cool if done with more...creativity ?
It's like for example when I discuss about football (I admit I am a football lunatic) on the Buffalo Bills board. Everybody is crazy or hates Tom Brady there, but even if the Pats are in our division and so are enemies I can't help but say that this guy is the greatest QB I've seen playing in ages - since Montana in fact.And so come sometimes heated but interesting arguments.
I am not closed to arguments, I just would like to express my opinion, and my deception go to the authors, not the players who enjoy it.
Griselame, I'll be your huckleberry.
So, tell me of the published adventures out there, which you consider 'good'. That will tell the rest of us where you are coming from, namely, where you 'set the bar'. Then we can discuss.
I suspect you are of the 'storyteller' camp of gamers. You want a deep roleplaying (instead of roll playing) experience which means you want adventures with deep story lines, lots of intrigue and light on 'smashing' things. Yes?
To answer your question what others see in the APs that you do not, then I refer you to Robin Laws writings on the various 'styles' or types of gamers. You are probably principally a Storyteller, which like certain game elements. Other 'types' of gamers as defined by Robin Law like different elements than you do. Therefore, your expectation fo what makes a good game or good story will differ from another gamer type.
The various other gamers fall in the camps of Power Gamer, Character Player, Tactican, Weekend Warrior, Casual Gamer, and Specialist.
Someone did a quiz based on the various gamer archtypes. Quiz here here:
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=275080&first=yes
Take the quiz and post your results. Then we have a basis for further discussion.
By the way, my results from the quiz are:
You scored as Storyteller. The Storyteller is in it for the plot: the sense of mystery and the fun of participating in a narrative that has the satisfying arc of a good book or movie. He enjoys interacting with well-defined NPCs, even preferring antagonists who have genuine motivations and personality to mere monsters. To the Storyteller, the greatest reward of the game is participating in a compelling story with interesting and unpredictable plot threads, in which his actions and those of his fellow characters determine the resolution.
With apologies to Robin Laws
Storyteller 90%
Character Player 90%
Power Gamer 65%
Tactician 55%
Weekend Warrior 45%
Casual Gamer 15%
Specialist 5%
Strangely, while I am considered a Storyteller, I like the Adventure Paths which probably is a result of my scores in the other categories. It would be interesting to compare scores.
So, tell me of the published adventures out there, which you consider 'good'. That will tell the rest of us where you are coming from, namely, where you 'set the bar'. Then we can discuss.
Fortunatly, Griselame has already given us an indication of the type of modules he "prefers. In his first post, he talks about "classics" like the Marco Volo Trilogy!!!!!
I don't know if many of the posters here at the Pazio boards are Forgotten Realm fans, but the Marco Volo modules (Deparure, Journey and Arrival) are probably the low-point in FR publishing.
They are three modules with the firm 2E AD&D philosophy of "stuck two fingers up your players nostrils and yank them through the plot by the nose. Repeat until you've reached the end of the module."
The basis of these modules is that a group of unsuspecting players have to escort an anoying NPC bard across the length and width of the Realms, all the while keeping themselves from killing the troublesome git. All the while the party encounters enraged wizards with unrealistic spell selections, unreasoning (and unreasonable) paladins, and encounters that should kill them, bu instead simply force them further down an already unbelievable road.
While I could go on for some duration about the poor quality, railroad nature of these modules, I'll simply leave those memories to rest. If Griselame considers these modules to be "classics," I'll stick to the Adventure Paths that Paizo puts out any day of the week.
Storyteller
100%
Character Player
75%
Casual Gamer
60%
Weekend Warrior
50%
Tactician
45%
Power Gamer
35%
Specialist
15%
Hey hey this quizz was funny ! And the results don't surprise me that much after all.
About MArco Volo, I definitely push you to play this great trilogy, which was much funnier and lively that the usual "Cave of the Demon-orc with 1000 zombie guards from hell and beyond" we got served and continue to get served nowadays....
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Of course every group or DM should decide which rules they incorporate into their campaign and which not. But a first level spell giving a +4 armor bonus to a warrior-type character already wearing a good armor is too much. Let's he wears an armor giving him +4 armor bonus to his AC, he wears a large shield and gets another +2 from dexterity this would make for a (in my eyes) mighty AC of 22 on first level. Hard to hit. Perhaps too hard for most of the CR 1 monsters. Sure from player's perspective they are not to hit anyway but behind m screen I don't think so!
Well that's true an AC of 22 is hard for a CR1 monster to hit. I have pulled off some very lucky hits though. I changed the Croc in the LD's hideout to a more challenging Giant Crocadile. The group was getting a bit cocky and I needed to bring them down a bit. The paladin went first. He was searching etc. as he went along and I told him that he saw two yellow/green tiny glowing orbs sitting on top of the pool of water. The glowing orbs were the eyes of the crock reflecting torch light. Of course the Croc got a suprise round on wich I rolled a natural 20 wich then turned into an actual crit! Nearly bit the Paladin in half! I think he had an AC of about 24 at that point. With the zombies, thieves and pirates i've been flanking and aiding in battle wich has worked fairly well too. I havn't had but 1 PC death but I think that's mainly due to the players working together well, coming up with sound battle tactics, and the Cleric hanging to bless and heal as needed. I'm also using the variant rule for Instant death. We've had a couple of close calls on that one as well.
Griselame: Ok, it is clear from the quiz results you are a storyteller, which I expected. Therefore, I totally understand your choice of modules.
To a storyteller player, the story is the thing, even if other (like Halidan) may consider some of the choices railroad barons. If the plotline or story is engaging, that is what is important. Therefore, I understand why you like Prince of Redhand (it is good storyteller module) and why you would be bored of a hackfest.
What is important for everyone to understand is that everyone's choice of what is a good adventure will vary. A 'tactican' player or a 'casual gamer' player is not going to much enjoy Prince of Redhand because it lacks those elements that appeals to their play style. Likewise, a 'storyteller' player is not going to like a pure hackfest dungeon crawl type module because it lacks a meaningful story.
The APs were written to try to appeal across the spectrum of player types, which is why they try to balance across the amount of hack'n'slash to intrigue to story elements.
I also think the success of such is also in the presentation by the DM. The APs do have story elements but unless the DM emphasises those elements, a 'storyteller' player may be frustrated by the lack of a compelling story he can get into. I've seen posts by gamers who have tried to reduce the amount of combats in APs by allowing for other 'successful' outcomes and story awards and have done so successful. Once again, it comes down the the DM and his presentation and how rigidly he hold to the adventure has written.
So, bottom line - if the adventure paths are not your cup of tea, even after modifying them to better accomodate the type of players you have, then fine for you.
It is like judging art - there is no right way or wrong way, just opinion. Just don't insinuate that anyone who like the APs (or the Marco Volo modules for the other side of the coin) are somehow missing the point or are playing an inferior type of game.
Black Moria, I just want to commend you on one of the most thoughtful and polite responses I think I've ever seen on these boards. Well done, sir! Well done. You've set the precedent for further discussion with Griselame on his subtopic. There's a lot of us here that appreciate hearing mature non-confrontational/non-argumentative dialogue. Again, well done.