Pathfinder Battles—Darklands Rising

David knott 242 wrote:

So -- Has there been any announcement about when individual minis will go on sale? In the past I always got every single mini from a set in my case, but from this product thread I suspect that may be a thing of the past and most subscribers will have to decide between doing without certain minis and ordering them individually.

Wizkids last said February 3.

Is that up to Wizkids or Paizo? In the past I thought you (Paizo) had to open individual booster boxes to identify what was in them so that you could sell known individual minis. Has that changed?

I've bought 15 or so cases over the year of WizKids/Paizo minis.

...

3. The distribution is very different with these cases. I actually did not get one of the minis. Let me restate that, *I buy a whole case of minis. $475, and I didn't get one.*. I think that's a damn shame.

You’re about spot on expected result.

Wizkids aimed for completion rate was 92% on launch (and I haven’t heard that they’ve changed that). That works out at an expected 1.2 cases out of 15 being incomplete. Where a case is incomplete, they “should” only be missing one or two rares.

I don’t remember the details, but back when the product line launched one of the staff (probably Vic Wertz) went into detail about why it would be prohibitively costly to aim for 100%.

(Even with the goal of a 100% completion rate, there’s the risk of collation error but that doesn’t sound like what happened to you).

Is that up to Wizkids or Paizo? In the past I thought you (Paizo) had to open individual booster boxes to identify what was in them so that you could sell known individual minis. Has that changed?

I believe that's Wizkids' date. I contacted them about replacing what was broken in my case. They said this set would show up on the replacement request website a couple weeks after the release date in February, when they get individual stock for replacements.

I will try to glue together what I can, but I am very disappointed with the rate of breakage in this set, especially at this price point, and will be...

Wizkids has always been great with requests for replacements for me. You should definitely try that before writing off any miniatures that were broken.

We may not be discussing the same thing here.

If a miniature is broken, we contact Wizkids for a replacement on or after February 3rd. Got it. I haven't had to worry about that so far because one guy in my gaming group is really good at repairing broken minis.

But what if I simply don't get a mini that I want from the Darklands Rising set? There is no guarantee that a case will have at least one of every mini, so it is not up to Wizkids to fix thix "problem". It is my understanding that in that situation I should order that single mini from Paizo, as I do not recall seeing particular individual minis for sale from Wizkids -- Please correct me if I have this point wrong.

In other words, what I was trying to ask is when Paizo will be selling particular individual single minis. It is my understanding that they do not have to ask Wizkids for permission to determine when they will do that.

We may not be discussing the same thing here.

I understood what you were talking about. I mentioned my conversation with Wizkids only as some confirmation that they're considering individual minis available in early February. I'm guessing I'll be able to order the mini that wasn't in my case sometime in the next week, and I think I'll be able to order replacements sometime in mid-February.

Any idea when individual minis will go on sale? Just received by case and I'm missing 1 and a variant. First time I haven't gotten a complete set with a case in ... forever... I think I've always complete sets. It's not a big deal; they're commons/uncommons, but I DO want pick them up as soon as possible.

Well I love the direction the range takes with this set. The redistribution to include huge minis and 2 large in a booster is pure gold for me. I just hope this becomes the now norm AND they address the packing issues to prevent such a high rate of breakage.

It looks like the completion rate has taken a hit too. Thats unfortunate, imo.

Really glad dungeon setting is in its own line now.

All,

Our singles for this set (Darklands Rising) will go on sale on the release date of February 3rd, and that should be the same for all singles sellers. If a site lists them prior to this date, then that site is breaking the release date set by WizKids and you should let WizKids know.

And TomParker is correct. For those of you that have found broken minis in your case, please reach out to WizKids through their replacement request site for replacements.

Two problems that I saw with that site:

1) Darklands Rising cannot be selected for a replacement request, and it is after February 3rd.

2) Their description of the process for requesting replacements mentions a receipt selected from their database. Do they have a record of purchases made via Paizo?

Two problems that I saw with that site:

1) Darklands Rising cannot be selected for a replacement request, and it is after February 3rd.

2) Their description of the process for requesting replacements mentions a receipt selected from their database. Do they have a record of purchases made via Paizo?

As I said above, Wizkids told me they get the sets up on the replacement request page once they have replacements available, which will be a couple weeks after the release date.

The replacement policy says you need to upload an image of your proof of purchase. It also says you can only request one replacement per purchase but I've never had a problem with them providing replacements.

They've been great—I didn't assemble my Falling Star model for over a year after it came out and found a component missing. They mailed me the part with no questions asked.

David knott 242 wrote:

Two problems that I saw with that site:

1) Darklands Rising cannot be selected for a replacement request, and it is after February 3rd.

2) Their description of the process for requesting replacements mentions a receipt selected from their database. Do they have a record of purchases made via Paizo?

As I said above, Wizkids told me they get the sets up on the replacement request page once they have replacements available, which will be a couple weeks after the release date.

The replacement policy says you need to upload an image of your proof of purchase. It also says you can only request one replacement per purchase but I've never had a problem with them providing replacements.

They've been great—I didn't assemble my Falling Star model for over a year after it came out and found a component missing. They mailed me the part with no questions asked.

Darklands is listed on the replacement site now. My only issue now is that Wizkids expects me to mail them the miniatures.

if your replacement request includes one or more collectible components, you’re required to send them into us.

That's pretty unfortunate that I have to pay the shipping to send them their broken goods.

At least Amazon will pay the return postage. I'm out.

Every one of the Leng Spiders in my case was broken, all in the same way. I feel like there is either a design flaw with the mini or with the way its packed.

David knott 242 wrote:

Is that up to Wizkids or Paizo? In the past I thought you (Paizo) had to open individual booster boxes to identify what was in them so that you could sell known individual minis. Has that changed?

I believe that's Wizkids' date. I contacted them about replacing what was broken in my case. They said this set would show up on the replacement request website a couple weeks after the release date in February, when they get individual stock for replacements.

Yes, my experience with this set is wildly different than any other set previously.

-I also did not get a particular miniature.
-There were four uncommon miniatures that I only got one of each, whereas in the past I could always expect 2 to 3 of any particular uncommon.
-Instead of getting 2 to 3 of each uncommon I got 6 of some commons whereas I could usually expect 4 to 5 previously.

I've purchased every case since the line began and this is the first time I've not gotten every miniature in the release as part of my case.

Now, I will say that a few of the miniatures included are some of the best looking minis to date (The Stag Beetle and the Jabberwock, for example).

That said, I think the set was a missed opportunity. Instead of getting 4 Adamantine Golems, Arboreal Regents, and Leng Spiders, if those numbers had been halved and a larger selection of huge model variations included, this could have been a much more stellar release.
Also, perhaps, making the mammoth riders removable, their number could have been a fantastic move! Also allowing for the minis to fill two different roles and allowing a larger variety of huge minis to be included.

Both happy and disappointed at parts of the release, especially given the increased price point and lack of dungeon dressings.

I now wish that all the prior sets were on clear bases! That move was truly fantastic!!!!!!

TomParker wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

Two problems that I saw with that site:

1) Darklands Rising cannot be selected for a replacement request, and it is after February 3rd.

2) Their description of the process for requesting replacements mentions a receipt selected from their database. Do they have a record of purchases made via Paizo?

As I said above, Wizkids told me they get the sets up on the replacement request page once they have replacements available, which will be a couple weeks after the release date.

The replacement policy says you need to upload an image of your proof of purchase. It also says you can only request one replacement per purchase but I've never had a problem with them providing replacements.

They've been great—I didn't assemble my Falling Star model for over a year after it came out and found a component missing. They mailed me the part with no questions asked.

Darklands is listed on the replacement site now. My only issue now is that Wizkids expects me to mail them the miniatures.

https://wizkids.com/product-support/ wrote:

if your replacement request includes one or more collectible components, you’re required to send them into us.

That's pretty unfortunate that I have to pay the shipping to send them their broken goods.

At least Amazon will pay the return postage. I'm out.

Now, in the past, I've gotten replacements directly from Paizo after providing pictures of the broken models from past sets. Given the price we pay for these sets, that with proof of the damage, we should not have to pay out of our own pockets to ship them to Wizkids (who, by the way, do not guarantee replacement of the exact minis, but another of comparable value if out of stock of the broken mini in question).

Some sets I've had zero issues with, but a few have broken pieces. I only had 3 damaged/broken minis in this case.

But, again, I have yet to send back to Wizkids and have worked directly with Paizo instead.

I've had broken minis replaced that were singles and shipped by Paizo from Paizo previously. I've never tried to have mini's replaced from Case subs. This is the first time I've had sizeable damage though in a case.

I tend to repair my broken mini's or repurpose/base them as needed. I will do that with this case too. Have 2 leng spiders broken, a skaveling off its base and a second one that snapped the flight stand I've already repaired. There are some others too, but again I don't mind repurposing.

Gutted that there are so many stories of breakages for people on this set. Not Paizo's fault, at all. Just the first time I've seen people pointed back to Wizkids to get replacements as the standard.

Will add that this set is FANTASTIC. Breakage aside, it is a really dynamic set that has quite the spread of minis for war bands or pc's. Love it!

Now, what I AM trying to figure out still is why shipping for Mengkare alone is nearly as much as the entire case.

That I am seriously struggling with.

Package dimensions. Mengkare is a BIG boy.

It was surprising! (The Mengkare box is nearly as big as a standard PFBattles case).

My case arrived today and contained a complete set. Here is my case distribution:

All three leng spiders are broken, and each in a different way. Impressive. I realize the minis are based on the bestiary art, but whomever decided this was a good way to make a (very heavy) mini should think long and hard about their career choices.

A strider was broken, as was a skaveling. A bunch of others were bent, some almost 90 degrees (leucrotta and witchwyrd).

The shoggoth and jabberwock are outstanding. Mengkare is almost perfect, but unfortunately his tail dips lower than his base, which means his base doesn't lie flat.

I like the case, but the condition in which many arrived is quite unfortunate.

Going through the list I'm missing one uncommon, and have 4 broken Leng Spiders, as well as 1 broken drider and 2 skavelings. A number of badly bent ones as well, especially among the rares, which is unfortunate.

Also, the distribution of the uncommons is heavily weighted towards the large sized minis, making those uncommons more like rares (which makes having ones that have variants sort of a waste if you're only going to get 1 on it).

I think this may be the point where I stop picking these up.

Going through the list I'm missing one uncommon, and have 4 broken Leng Spiders, as well as 1 broken drider and 2 skavelings. A number of badly bent ones as well, especially among the rares, which is unfortunate.

Also, the distribution of the uncommons is heavily weighted towards the large sized minis, making those uncommons more like rares (which makes having ones that have variants sort of a waste if you're only going to get 1 on it).

I think this may be the point where I stop picking these up.

Thankfully a hairdryer will quick fix the badly bent ones.

Heat them up, then hold them in the correct position while they cool, which is pretty darn quick.

Just opened our full case. overall very disappointed.

out of the 132 minis in the box, 13 were broken.

the clear bases are horrible. virtually impossible to read the text. GO BACK TO BLACK BASES PLEASE.

We have bought full cases of every set so far, and have always gotten every mini in the set, this is the first time we have actually not gotten a full set.

Overall I give this set a 5/10.

Just received my case today. Had a total of 12 broken miniatures. That's a 10% failure rate. I have never had that. I can live with one or two, which I can usually fix. No big deal. This is the first time I was missing a miniature in the set. Not a fan of the clear bases. I want to be able to read the writing on the miniature.

Broken miniatures were:
-1 Leucrotta (got 4 so 3 were fine)
-1 Allevrah Azrinae(R)(only got 1)
-3 Skavelings (only got 3)
-4 Fleshwarp, Drow Abomination (only got 4)
-3 Leng Spiders (got 4 total and 1 was fine)

First time I was disappointed with a case of miniatures.

My breakage rate was similar to the ones others have mentioned:

3 leng spiders, 5 fleshwarp abominations, 1 skaveling. There were also two medium/small minis but I can’t read their names with faint white writing on a transparent base.

I’m sympathetic with the leng spider - I can imagine it looked pretty sturdy. But I’m surprised the fleshwarp abomination wasn’t made with the base designed to “slot in” to the figure -mwizkids do that pretty often with their D&D line and looking at how the mini is supposed to look, it seems obviously fragile (although hindsight and all that.

It’s a shame that on a set with such great sculpts, my overall impression is one of broken figures.

The faint labelling is terrible too, imo. I don’t care about clear/black bases but if the cost of clear is that I can’t read the labels, put me firmly in the black base camp.

Only two breakages in my case, although the leng spiders are VERY wobbly and may need to be glued.

I just realized I never posted my official results on this site. This is a copy & paste of my Darklands Rising case results post from a different website, originally posted a few weeks ago:

I finally opened my case. My results weren't as bad as many others. The following is a breakdown with as much information as possible. Also, in each brick, Box 1 starts at the far left and moves right. Box 5 starts behind Box 1 at the far left and moves right.

If there is no condition listed, then the mini arrived fine, with no irregularities.

Brick 1:
Box 1 (4.3 oz/122 g): Drow Abomination (base was not sitting in its protective plastic, but the miniature was not broken), Emperor Cobra, Drow Rogue, Vrykolakas. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 2 (14.8 oz./420 g): Adamantine Goelm, Lurker in Light, Hellspawn Monk, Urdefhan Warrior. {1 HU/1 SU/2 MC}
Box 3 (4.8 oz./136 g): Wood Giant, Leucrotta, Fungus Leshy, Hollowborn Rogue. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 4 (7.5 oz./213 g): Mammoth, Gnome Warrior, Leprechaun, Siora Quinndove, Pathfinder. {1 HU/1 SU/1 SC/1 MR}
Box 5 (10.4 oz/295 g): Leng Spider, Hellspawn Monk, Deep Gnome Warrior (bent nearly all the way back), Dig-Widget. {1 HU/2 MC/1 MU}
Box 6 (11.1 oz/315 g): Jabberwock, Blood Mist, Tengu Bard, Deep Gnome Scout. {1 HR/1 MU/1 MC/1 SC}
Box 7 (15.0 oz/426 g): Adamantine Golem, Peyton, Deep Gnome Scout, Fleshwarp Grothlut. {1 HU/1 MC/1 SC/1 MU}
Box 8 (4.8 oz/136 g): Arboreal Regent, Leprechaun, Attic Whisperer, Animate Dream. {1 HU/1 MC/1 SU/1 MR}

Brick 2:
Box 1 (6.3 oz/179 g): Skaveling (base was not sitting in its protective plastic, but the miniature was not broken), Giant Toad, Urdefhan Warrior, Grodair. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 2 (14.8 oz./420 g): Adamantine Goelm, Gnome Scout, Leprechaun, Hollowborn Rogue. {1 HU/2 MC/1 SU}
Box 3 (4.8 oz./136 g): Ghonatine, Giant Stag Beetle, Grodair, Giant Amoeba. {2 LU/1 MC/1 SC}
Box 4 (10.4 oz./295 g): Leng Spider (Broken on stem), Scarecrow, Deep Gnome Scout, Allevrah Azrinae (Bent almost all the way back). {1 HU/MU/SC/MR}
Box 5 (4.8 oz/136 g): Arboreal Regent, D'ziriak, Gnome Scout, Vrykolakas. {1 HU/1 MR/1 SU/1 MC}
Box 6 (4.8 oz/136 g): Cavern Troll, Quoppopak, Blood Mist, Fungus Leshy. {1 LR/1 LR/1 MU/1 MC}
Box 7 (4.9 oz/139 g): Wood Giant, Leucrotta, Tengu Bard, Drow Rogue (slightly bent). {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 8 (7.7 oz/219 g): Mammoth, Dig-Widget, Hellspawn Monk, Peryton. {1 HU/1 MU/2 MC}

Brick 3:
Box 1 (4.8 oz/136 g): Ghonatine, Giant Stag Beetle, Giant Amoeba, Vrykolakas. {2 LU/1 SU/1 MC}
Box 2 (5 oz./142 g): Arboreal Regent, Lurker in Light, Zon-Kuthon, Deep Gnome Warrior. {1 HU/1 SU/1 MR/1 SC}
Box 3 (5 oz./142 g): Wood Giant, Leucrotta, Hollowborn Rogue, Vrykolakas. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 4 (4.4 oz./125 g): Drow Abomination, Emperor Cobra, Hellspawn Monk, Urdefhan Warrior. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 5 (6.3 oz/179 g): Skaveling (broken off at base), Giant Toad, Grodair, Urdefhan Tormentor. {2 LU/1 MC/1 MR}
Box 6 (5.8 oz/165 g): Irnakurse, Norn, Fungus Leshy, Tengu Bard. (While all four minis turned out fine, all four miniatures were packed on top of each other. Not even the Irnakurse was properly in the tray. The strangest thing was it looked like this was done intentionally; with the Irnakurse placed in first, the Norn on top of it, etc. I can completely understand why some folks received a broken Irnakurse or Norn) {1 HR/1 LR/2 MC}
Box 7 (10.6 oz/301 g): Leng Spider, Grothlut, Drow Rogue, Hellspawn Monk. {1 HU/1 MU/2 MC}
Box 8 (8.2 oz/233 g): Mammoth Rider, 1 Deep Gnome Rockwarden, 1 Peryton, 1 Tengu Bard. {1 HU/1 SU/2 MC}

Brick 4:
Box 1 (4.4 oz/125 g): Drow Abomination, Emperor Cobra, Peryton, Deep Gnome Warrior. {2 LU/1 MC/1 SC}
Box 2 (15 oz./426 g): Adamantine Goelm, Attic Whisperer, Grodair, Urdefhan Warrior (bent back really bad). {1 HU/1 SU/2 MC}
Box 3 (6.3 oz./179 g): Skaveling, Giant Toad, Giant Amoeba, Witchwyrd (bent really bad). {2 LU/1 SC/1 MR}
Box 4 (9.6 oz./273 g): Shoggoth, Drow Warrior (crossbow), Deep Gnome Scout, Tengu Bard. {1 HR/1 MU/1 SC/1 MC}
Box 5 (4.3 oz/122 g): Drow Abomination, Emperor Cobra, Fungus Leshy, Drow Rogue. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 6 (4.8 oz/136 g): Ghonatine, Giant Stag Beetle, Leprechaun, Vrykolakas. {2 LU/2 MC}
Box 7 (4.8 oz/136 g): Arboreal Regent, Tengu Jinx Eater, Urdefhan Warrior, Gnome Warrior. {1 HU/1 MR/1 MC/1 SU}
Box 8 (8 oz/227 g): Mammoth Rider, Lurker in Light, Deep Gnome Scout, Hollowborn Rogue. {1 HU/1 SU/1 SC/1 MC}

Some thoughts:
Paint Jobs: Across the board, these paint jobs are excellent. Similar to the Lost Omens set from last summer, there isn't a miniature in this set that I think is painted poorly. Having said that, several of the Rares, while not terrible, aren't necessarily what I'd consider Rare-quality. Zon-Kuthon is a great example, with a face that could use a bit more work. So while the overall paint job is indeed great, I'd have liked to have seen a better job on a couple of the Rare pieces. But for those interested in any of the commons, you can buy with confidence that the paint jobs on these will be better than previous commons from both the Pathfinder Battles and Icons of the Realms line.

Missing Minis: I'm missing two miniatures from the set, both Uncommon mediums. I'm missing the Drow Priestess (#21) and the Drow Warrior (Rapier; #24a). More on this in a moment...

Low-Count Uncommon Minis: I also received only one Drow Warrior (crossbow; #24b). Deep Gnome Rockwarden (#17) and Scarecrow (#23). Aside from extreme disappointment that the case was two sculpts shy of a full set, the low count of these cases is also disappointing. Pathfinder finally gives us Drow, and many folks are going to end up with so few. I consider Pathfinder king of monster/npc "war bands" within a set release. So it's a shame that it's the Drow (and Svirfneblin) that take a hit, here.

Overall thoughts: Paizo and WizKids decided to try something new here, releasing so many unique sculpts--52, to be exact--and packaging two large miniatures together. They also supposedly chose this new allocation method so they could make massive Huge minis, like the Adamantine Golem. I can admire Paizo's willingness to try something new. Unfortunately, it has backfired tremendously. Maybe they believed the extra sculpts would simply take the place of the old Dungeon Dressing? I honestly don't know. As disappointed as I am, I'm giving both companies a free pass on this issue. There's something to be said for trying to be innovative and move the needle of normality. Had this turned out well, it could have changed sets going forward. However..

Paizo and WizKids can't make this same mistake again. I don't know what Paizo's next set count is, but they need to get together with WizKids and shave it back down to the 44- or 45-piece sets that we saw with Lost Omens and the last few Icons lines. There's no point in trying to reinvent the wheel when the spokes end up broken or missing. Paizo needs to make sure they go back to the One Large/Huge and 3 Smalls/Mediums style. Alternatively, if they insist on changing things up, they need to make it work. This will be my last Pathfinder Battles case if they can't get this fixed by the next Battles release.

One issue I can't give a free pass on is the breakage on these sets. While yes, my case contents turned out much better in this regard, I know many folks weren't as lucky as me. Booster boxes should be fun; folks shouldn't feel a sense of fear and dread just opening them. Most frustrating with this issue is that complaints about these generic, open plastic protectors is not new; they've been plaguing multiple sets these last couple years. And now prices have increased. While some of that is reflected in the paint jobs, there's no excuse for using faulty packaging materials. WizKids needs to fix this.

Strangely enough, the Adamantine Golem is very well packaged, even receiving an extra insert to keep it safe and secure. It really feels like they worried so much about this one miniature, and then said "to hell" with all the rest. A very strange move.

Oh, And One More Thing...: I'm watching Columbo while writing this, so pardon the reference. But lets talk about poor miniature design. Despite how lucky I was with two of my three Leng Spiders, it's pretty clear they're going to break. They're just too heavy; even taking them out of the package and sitting them upright on the table had me concerned. It's a shame, because this miniature is otherwise amazing. The same thing goes for both the Drow Abomination and the Skaveling. In these two cases, it's the skimpy peg on the former, and the terrible flight stand on the latter. The Skaveling flight stand and Drow Abomination peg both start with a solid base and then thin out the closer to the miniature it goes. It's absolutely absurd, and it's clearly the reason for most of the breakages with these two miniatures. At one point WizKids was using very thick flight stands. They did look goofy, but I remember thinking they weren't likely to break. Why on earth did they stop using them?

Now some final thoughts on this set, before I look to the future:

1. The decision to switch from black bases to clear bases was not a Paizo decision, but a WizKids decision. It was done to make the miniatures more "immersive" for all the folks using 3D Tiles like the WizKids Warlock tiles. And I guess maybe for those of us that use Flip-Tiles and battle maps of other kinds.

I'm not a fan of this move. I hate how they look both as standalone pieces and on my Flip-Mats and Flip-Tiles. I'm also not a fan of making such a move when it likely doesn't help half of us. I don't typically get bent out of shape over changing tradition, but this is one I just didn't feel needed to be touched. There's nothing wrong with revealing your disappointment here, so that the Paizo folks can feel your pain. But I'm not sure there is much they can do. Instead, I implore any of you that feel compelled to talk about it to head over to Minisgallery .com and share your thoughts in the Clear Bases vs. Black Bases thread. And if you absolutely love them and hope they never go back, then come share the why of that, too.

2. As frustrating as this set was with all the missing minis and oddball numbers on Uncommons in a case, it's something that can easily be fixed for the next set.

3. I can't recommend a case of Darklands Rising. I can't even recommend picking up a brick. Getting 32 unbroken pieces in a brick is a great feeling, but we've had numerous folks pulling five or six broken pieces. With those types of odds, I just can't recommend a case. However...

4. It's also important not to let the beauty of most of these miniatures get lost in all the frustration. If there are minis in this set that you have your eye on but are too concerned about pulling too many broken minis in a blind buy, I very much encourage you to pick them up on the singles market. Hunt around for the best price, as they vary wildly from site to site.

5. I'll be leaving a piece-by-piece review of the set in the product review section sometime within the next day. For anyone interested on my thoughts on each piece, feel free to check that out.

6. There were some interesting choices here. For example, the Adamantine Golem, while a beautiful sculpt and a remarkable paint job, is a Rare creature, per the Bestiary. It even calls out that crafting one takes plenty of time and effort, and takes enough Adamantine that mining exhibitions to other planets is usually required. It also states this amount is often worth more than many nations' treasuries. I'm not sure I'd ever use more than one, whether playing within the world of Golarion or a homebrew campaign. I received four, and I feel it would have made more sense to use up a Rare slot for one of these big things.

7. From a production standpoint, the breakage issues are pretty much all on WizKids. Even the poorly designed minis, like the Leng Spider and Skaveling Bat, should have been caught at some stage of the production process. And cementing breakage problems by the continued use of their poor packaging materials is unacceptable.

While this falls on WizKids from a practical matter, it doesn't let Paizo off the hook. Regardless of where the issues stem, it's still got Pathfinder Battles printed on the product. I don't create miniatures or any other product. But if I did, I certainly wouldn't want the name of my company associated with the mess of technical problems in this set. I've been reassured that there is an open line between the two companies; Let's hope they use it going forward.

I like these comments, but I'd also add the faint lettering on the bottom is a real pain-in-the-rear for collectors. PF Battles has always done this better than D&D figures (for some reason) but these were downright illegible in some cases.

It was exacerbated by the clear bases I suspect, but irrespective I think it's a separate issue - that bothers me more than the clear bases, if I'm honest.

I like these comments, but I'd also add the faint lettering on the bottom is a real pain-in-the-rear for collectors. PF Battles has always done this better than D&D figures (for some reason) but these were downright illegible in some cases.

It was exacerbated by the clear bases I suspect, but irrespective I think it's a separate issue - that bothers me more than the clear bases, if I'm honest.

I agree they're near impossible to read, and that's really frustrating. I also agree that the Battles line was always the gold standard for this. The clear bases definitely exacerbates the issue. Over on minisgallery .com Berk has shared pictures of his Darklands minis after painting the top and rim of the bases black, and you can clearly read the name underneath.

This entire move to the clear bases was made solely to benefit the 3D Tiles/Battle maps crowd. The labeling underneath as it is looks less white, including on Berk's minis. My point is whether or not it stands as a separate issue, the cause is the same. And just as WizKids isn't likely to switch back to the black, I can't imagine they'd do anything to make the labeling any clearer. To do that they'd need to make the print more visible, and ultimately that would work to undue what they feel they've achieved by making the bases clear in the first place.

I have been a subscriber since the Pathfinder Battles line began. I have finally found time to open the two Darklands Rising cases from my subscription and was disappointed enough to post about it.

First off, the clear bases are a horrible design choice for collectors. My eyes are burning after straining all day trying to read the text and numbers on the bottom. I was wearing readers, using a magnifying glass, and had to get the angle of the light just right for the small and medium minis.

As others have said, I did not get a complete set in either case. This is the second time I have ever failed to get a complete set (I once failed to get a medium black dragon in a set years ago.) I did not get a Drow Fighter with Crossbow (24B) in either case and only got one Lurker in Light (19) between the two. Of the small and medium uncommons, I only pulled two to four of each total.

I have one Leucrotta attached to its base by one leg, the pegs on the other three feet are broken.

Two of the Skavelings are broken near the top of their flight stands.

Of my eight Leng Spiders, six are broken. All six of these, the web is broken from the base. Two of the spiders are separated from the web. Four have a leg unattached, the same leg in each case, the one on the spider's right side, closest to the head.

I usually repair any damaged minis, but I have had good experience with Wizkids replacement program in the past, as there have been a few rare instances where a mini was missing a part. However as others have pointed out, you have to return the miniatures to Wizkids and you are not guaranteed the same miniature in return. Six Leng spiders seem pretty heavy to ship compared to the typical mini and given their design, I have doubts that Wizkids would have six intact ones to send me as replacements, and little confidence they could survive the trip. So I will attempt to repair them with an epoxy.

I have had every Pathfinder subcription since their respective inception, but I am currently questioning my future relationship with the Pathfinder Battles subscription service.

If you're still reading at this point, thanks for letting me vent.

Recently picked up a single Tengu Bard -- they were nearly bent horizontal at the ankle (looks like the legs weren't thick enough to hold the weight of the mini?) and trying to straighten them out.

I finally received my replacement miniatures from WizKids. I had two broken Leng Spiders and 3 broken Skavelings. I put in my replacement request a few days after Darklands Rising was made available for requesting replacements.

I ended up receiving:
1 Giant Stag Beetle
1 Fleshwarp, Ghonatine
1 Adamantine Golem
1 Skaveling
1 Leng Spider

The replacement Leng Spider was broken. This is more than a little frustrating, especially since they are presumably going require me to pay to ship the Leng Spider back and I have no guarantee that I'll get an unbroken Leng Spider as replacement.

The Leng Spider is one of the most poorly designed miniatures I've ever seen. Who thought it was a good idea to mount such a heavy mass of plastic on such flimsy anchor points?

This is definitely making me reconsider my Pathfinder Battles subscription.

So we put in our replacement request as soon as it was possible. we had 10 miniatures that needed replacement. only 2 of which they actually replaced with the correct mini. the others were replaced with "Miniatures from the same set of equal rarity".

we had 3 broken Leng Spiders, and none were replaced.

All in all, I am very disappointed in this set and Wizkids handling of the issue.

Wow, yeah, not impressed with Wizkids on this set after hearing other people's replacement experiences. Not replacing with the same mini is astounding to me.

And +1 on the clear bases being a clear (ha) misstep. I can't read the bases on my minis, and in general I feel like it looks worse.

Which is all really too bad, because the general designs and paint jobs are really awesome. Just too easy to break.

To my knowledge clear bases are not a clear misstep. Reactions are mixed, but as many people like them as do not. I see WizKids continuing this change unless market data shows otherwise.

I had a feeling with how many breaks were in this set, I had multiple, what would happen for people asking for replacements.

Sad to hear you don't get back what you sent in, that is abysmal. Glad I decided not to use that process. I glued the ones I could back together, had I shipped all my leng spiders in and gotten none, or broken ones, back I would have been extremely mad and vocal....

Going to rebase mine with sturdier connections.

As for the clear bases Aaron, I know that is what we keep being told. I personally don't mind the clear bases. I would PREFER the black bases, but I think that I see a LOT more people who have vocally expressed they are not picking up new mini's based on the clear bases than I have heard people starting to buy them because of it. In fact I haven't heard anyone be consistently vocal that they prefer clear. I don't doubt they are out there, but I do doubt that it is even remotely close to 50/50.

Once I got the bases in hand it didn't really make a difference putting them on the table with clear or black bases. What did make a difference is now I need a flash light or by some luck of the gods to put them at the exact right angle to be able to read the bottoms now though.

To my knowledge clear bases are not a clear misstep. Reactions are mixed, but as many people like them as do not. I see WizKids continuing this change unless market data shows otherwise.

I'm very surprised at that.

I've heard nobody express preference for the clear bases other than those involved in producing or selling them. I've heard people (like me) say they don't care but the comments that do express a preference seem heavily skewed towards the negative in my slice of the internet.

Although I'm ambivalent about the clear bases, the fact I can't read the labels has meant I've cancelled my PFBattles subscription so in that sense I think it's a mis-step. I guess it means the only way to send this message is to not buy the next case (?)

EDIT: Ha. I should have read Yoshua's comment first. Could have saved myself some typing and just clicked the favorite button really enthusiastically. :)

I guess it means the only way to send this message is to not buy the next case (?)

The free market in action! :-)

Steve Geddes wrote:

I guess it means the only way to send this message is to not buy the next case (?)

The free market in action! :-)

I find it a bit frustrating, if I'm honest.

In the RPG world I have previously provided feedback whilst still buying things I considered "near misses" and it's seemed small enough and connected enough to the customer base that such feedback still got through.

I guess it's the way of the corporatised world, but I still miss the days of direct engagement with those who make the decisions.

I've left a review, just in case that matters. Disappointing all round, I'm afraid - a weird feeling to take away from a set that has some of the best minis I've ever seen. :/

I prefer clear bases. When I base minis I've had printed or otherwise acquired I put them on clear bases. I've said as much in previous threads here. *shrug*

The names being hard to read is annoying, but after I've read it once I don't see it as a big deal as I just remember what it is. But then I inventory my minis when they arrive, so I know what names to expect on the minis.

Far more annoying to me are broken and bent minis. I had three broken leng spiders in my case, and each one was broken in a different way. I opted not to return them for replacements, and based on what I've read above I am glad I did so.

I prefer clear bases. When I base minis I've had printed or otherwise acquired I put them on clear bases. I've said as much in previous threads here. *shrug*

Cheers. You’re the first I’ve seen, but I didn’t mean to imply you didn’t exist. Sorry!

It just doesn’t seem 50/50 to me - granted people rarely pop onto a forum to say they like things as they are, so it’s a skewed way to gather info anyhow.

I think the problem could be fixed by changing how the name is printed to account for the clear base. I'm not a maker of minis, but I think there could be a way to have easy-to-read clear bases.
(TBH, I learned here that the name was on the base, I had NEVER looked there before.)

Ed Reppert wrote:

Steve Geddes wrote:

I guess it means the only way to send this message is to not buy the next case (?)

The free market in action! :-)

I find it a bit frustrating, if I'm honest.

In the RPG world I have previously provided feedback whilst still buying things I considered "near misses" and it's seemed small enough and connected enough to the customer base that such feedback still got through.

I guess it's the way of the corporatised world, but I still miss the days of direct engagement with those who make the decisions.

I've left a review, just in case that matters. Disappointing all round, I'm afraid - a weird feeling to take away from a set that has some of the best minis I've ever seen. :/

I appreciate your input, of course. I should clarify that the 50/50 perception is what WizKids has told me they see. I expect their sample size is huge. I have no direct data to review. I can communicate to them that we have anecdotal testimony from our forums that the black bases are preferred.

I'm grateful you all are here, but marketing is about data and metrics more than ever and less about customer feedback on forums. "The sample is skewed." "What people say they will buy and what people buy are two different things." But ultimately I think it is their product, their data, and their call. I share this, not to irritate you, but to set expectations.

No I appreciate that, thanks Aaron. I am disappointed in how this line has developed but appreciate I'm a drop in the ocean. I didnt mean to sound cross.

Wizkids must just be in a very different corner of the internet than me.

Steve Geddes wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

Steve Geddes wrote:

I guess it means the only way to send this message is to not buy the next case (?)

The free market in action! :-)

I find it a bit frustrating, if I'm honest.

In the RPG world I have previously provided feedback whilst still buying things I considered "near misses" and it's seemed small enough and connected enough to the customer base that such feedback still got through.

I guess it's the way of the corporatised world, but I still miss the days of direct engagement with those who make the decisions.

I've left a review, just in case that matters. Disappointing all round, I'm afraid - a weird feeling to take away from a set that has some of the best minis I've ever seen. :/

I appreciate your input, of course. I should clarify that the 50/50 perception is what WizKids has told me they see. I expect their sample size is huge. I have no direct data to review. I can communicate to them that we have anecdotal testimony from our forums that the black bases are preferred.

I'm grateful you all are here, but marketing is about data and metrics more than ever and less about customer feedback on forums. "The sample is skewed." "What people say they will buy and what people buy are two different things." But ultimately I think it is their product, their data, and their call. I share this, not to irritate you, but to set expectations.

Aaron,

First, let me say I greatly appreciate your honesty. While our individual voices might not mean as much as we'd all like them to, it's nice to know somebody is at least listening and cares to respond.

As for the metrics, sadly they'll always be skewed because we are all a captive customer, in a way. When my choice is between putting Pathfinder minis with clear bases down on my table for 2e play, or not putting any mini down, of course the data is going to show I favor the clear bases. I'd have purchased a Darklands Rising case with all black bases, but that wasn't even an option for me. WizKids will always follow their data (as expected) but it will always be skewed because there is no other choice, no other competition; It's an all or nothing game at this point. I'm not willing to NOT buy their products just to escape clear bases, because I'm not willing to not have Pathfinder miniature representation on my table. The only way that will ever change at this point is if Paizo options out their miniature license to other companies. But that's a discussion for another time, as it involves the future of miniature production (localized 3D printing) in general.

The reason I'm actually responding is due to the two big issues with the Darklands Rising set. I've never seen anything like the breakage issue that plagued the release; and I still haven't heard anything official from Paizo on the matter. All over the internet, instead of folks raving about how awesome most of the sculpts and paint jobs are (because that's true), folks are talking about how upset they've been with the breakage. Also, a greater number of folks had allocation issues, where they weren't able to receive an entire set with the purchase of a case. While that's never been a guarantee, the percentages certainly seem to be higher this time.

Now I understand most of that is on WizKids, because they're the ones making and packaging the product. But it's also the Paizo name that is printed on the cases. It would be nice if there was some sort of official recognition from the Paizo company of all the troubles. At this point, I'm not sure anyone needs a song and dance about what went wrong in the past (most of that is obvious, anyways). But what I'd personally like to see from Paizo is some sort of official recognition that there were some issues, that there has definitely been communication between Paizo and WIzKids about those issues, and that current and future Battles customers can expect the necessary steps have been taken so that the next set, July's Bestiary Unleashed, does not face the same fate.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. But at the moment it's hard to trust purchasing a case of Paizo Pathfinder Battles until I know there has been some sort of attempt to remedy the issues. The recent release of Icons of the Realms: Boneyard was encouraging, as that's also a WizKids product similar in style to the Battles line, and that one appears to have had very little breakage. And, anecdotally speaking, it appears even the miniatures were better packaged this time around. Encouraging or not, that isn't a Paizo product, and the fact remains it was a product with the Paizo company name on it that had the big issues.

Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from. And I hope you or another Paizo team member will be able to assure us, your customer base, that enough has been done to hopefully prevent another such issue this summer.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with Darklands or bases or anything else.. The second wave of the Pathfinder Battles Premium Miniatures--which currently appears slated for a July release--is showing up on retailer websites for pre-order. I haven't seen an official announcement on these boards from Paizo about this forthcoming wave, but given that folks can now order it, I thought you might want to know.

Perhaps you can get a blog posted before the weekend or sometime early next week, so more folks know they can be pre-ordered. Also, just as important, while we know the names of what is being released, we haven't actually seen any visual representation, even the renders. Assuming this second wave is pulling from the Unpainted Deep Cuts line like the first wave did, we can narrow down each mini to two possible choices (based on the contents of each name we know). However, I think most folks would really like to officially know which version they'll be receiving before placing a pre-order.

Here are the six miniatures from Wave 2:
--Male Half-Orc Druid
--Male Gnome Sorcerer
--Female Human Bard
--Female Elf Paladin
--Female Human Cleric
--Female Half-Elf Ranger

For anyone interested in knowing what the next Wave of Pathfinder Battles Premium Miniatures might look like, here is a link to another website with a post from the wonderful deadsmurf. He put in the time and effort to help narrow down the options of what Wave 2 will look like based on information announced back in February. There's no guarantee any of these are correct, as it's possible WizKids went with different sculpts based on unseen art. But if they follow the precedent of using unpainted miniatures from the Deep Cuts line, it's most likely that one of the two images for each miniature is what we can expect to see.

Go to POTENTIAL Wave 2 Premium Figures