Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide

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Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide
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Ready to go beyond the basics? Expand the limits of what's possible with the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide! This 272-page Pathfinder Second Edition rulebook contains exciting new rules options for player characters, adding even more depth of choice to your Pathfinder game! Inside you will find brand new ancestries, heritages, and four new classes: the shrewd investigator, the mysterious oracle, the daring swashbuckler, and the hex-slinging witch! The must-have Advanced Player's Guide also includes exciting new options for all your favorite Core Rulebook classes and tons of new backgrounds, general feats, spells, items, and 40 flexible archetypes to customize your play experience even further!

The Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Four new classes: the investigator, oracle, swashbuckler, and witch!
  • Five new ancestries and five heritages for any ancestry: celestial aasimars, curious catfolk, hagspawned changelings, vampiric dhampirs, fate-touched duskwalkers, scaled kobolds, fierce orcs, fiendish tieflings, industrious ratfolk, and feathered tengu!
  • 40 new archetypes including multiclass archetypes for the four new classes, Pathfinder favorites like the cavalier, dragon disciple, shadowdancer, and vigilante, and brand-new archetypes like the familiar master and the shield-bearing iron wall!
  • New class options for all twelve classes from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook including champions of evil, genie and shadow sorcerers, zen archer monks, rogue masterminds, spellcasting rangers, and more!
  • Even more exciting new rules, from rare and unique backgrounds to investigative skill feats, from spells and rituals like reincarnate and create demiplane to new items including special wands with unusual effects and exciting potions worthy of a witch's cauldron.

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-257-0



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Player's Guide... but ADVANCED

5/5

It gave us four beloved classes (some being reworked as time of writing) with unique flavor and original mechanics, showing what insane feats (pun intended) the system is capable of reaching. Excellent resource for GMs and players alike.


Very good

5/5

Now more or less replaced by Player Core 1 and 2. Was very good though.


4/5


APG meets Expectations as it Concludes the Original Vision of PF2

5/5

The Advanced Player's Guide is the capstone piece to the original vision for Pathfinder Second Edition. The PF2 CRB was a whopping 640 pages and Paizo still had more content ready to go in it that they just could not release due to space issues. Everything that was left out was designated to be released over the next year in either the Lost Omens line of books or in the Advanced Players Guide. Things that were not quite fully fleshed out for the original release were then worked out. Four additional classes were put through a playtest and are featured in the APG; the Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler, and Witch. Five new ancestries are in the APG while three more were released in the Lost Omens Character Guide in 2019.

One of the new concepts in PF2 is that of Versatile Heritages. Instead of having separate ancestry categories for Aasimar, Tiefling, Changling, Dhampir, and Duskwalker, they are now what is called a versatile heritage. These modify the ancestry choice the player made for the character via the heritage selection. This is a very interesting concept as it provides many additional options for players. These five are just the first of multiple waves of versatile heritages which will be released over time by Paizo.

For those who have been desiring more options for characters, the APG delivers. The four new classes have their dedications for multiclassing along with 38 new archetypes. In addition, each of the 12 original classes gained some new options to choose from as did each of the original ancestries. Not all of the options are as viable as other options, but much of that will depend on the theme of a campaign and how GMs choose to allow players to select archetypes. I can envision some GMs designating some archetypes as free additional choices for players in that they can take one with no additional feat penalties because they give added depth to the campaign's theme such as the dandy or celebrity. Other GMs could emphasize select archetypes like the gladiator as a free archetype for their campaign's theme. The potential for some very interesting campaign themes definitely exists with these archetypes.

One of the things I was watching for in this book was the dreaded power creep. I do not see it present. None of the archetypes seems to overwhelm any of the original classes in terms of raw power while instead they augment them. This was a goal of Paizo from the beginning and it seems to have been met. The APG does what it was intended to do. It expands the options available to players at the initial creation of their characters and as those characters level up over time. Perhaps the best part of that is the APG continues to expand upon building characters as concepts and not as a collection of soulless numbers. While the numbers are important to determining how well a character can do something, the concept behind the character matters more. PF2 put the role back into roleplaying and the APG continues that vision.

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Can't-miss book for anyone at the table

5/5

Especially, and this is obvious, the Advanced Player's Guide is a terrific resource for players--but that doesn't mean GMs don't have a lot to gain from it!

Just on the strength of classes and ancestries, this book is about 150% the size of the core rulebook. Every existing class gets a major boost of options and feats and the same goes for existing ancestries. Adding in four new classes and five new ancestries on top of that is an amazing boon. True, some get more (or better) options than others, but I would say just on character creation alone, this book well beyond justifies its price point.

And that's just the base.

Add in universal heritages, which seem mechanically reasonable but almost unreasonably bursting with flavor, lore, or character development hooks. Add in the massive chunk of archetypes, which enables so many different nuances of character concepts without always landing on the somewhat clunky multiclassing rules. Add in a shot in the arm to spell lists, item lists, skill and general feat lists, and so on?

I just don't know that more needs to be said. This book is bursting with great content--and it's guaranteed to turn the heads of pretty much any player with at least a couple of its options!


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This is only tangentially related, but why are demon blooded tieflings called Pitborn? Hell is often referred to as The Pit, but I haven’t heard the Abyss being referred to as the Pit.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What stats do Kobolds have?


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Moximus wrote:
Spellslimes, despite the name, cast no spells, instead coming from spellcasting residue. But they've got more hit points, immune to criticals, heal when you refocus, and can sense magic nearby.

Must. Get. This. Book.


Verzen wrote:
What stats do Kobolds have?

+ Str, +Wis, -Int

… Okay, I'm kidding.

It's actually + Dex, +Cha, -Con based on what folks have said.


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QuidEst wrote:
Verzen wrote:
What stats do Kobolds have?

+ Str, +Wis, -Int

… Okay, I'm kidding.

It's actually + Dex, +Cha, -Con based on what folks have said.

Yep! Other stats:

Size: Small
HP: 6
Speed: 25 feet
Darkvision
And they also get something called a "Draconic Exemplar", which is a type of dragon you select, and it affects certain feats you can take. It's separate from the Heritages, and it includes both metallic and chromatic dragons.


How does Scroll Trickster work? Do you pick a list to make scrolls from?


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SoulknifeFan420 wrote:
How does Scroll Trickster work? Do you pick a list to make scrolls from?

Prerequisite is training in either Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occultism. You get Trick Magic Item and a +2 circumstance bonus to Trick Scrolls, and you treat critical failures as failures.

Basically, in any of the skills you're trained, you can make scrolls of the corresponding tradition. Only scrolls from the CRB, or any spells you've learned via Learn a Spell.

There's a Basic, Expert and Master Scroll Cache feat. Each one gives you a free scroll of a certain level during your daily prep. Basic is 1-2, Expert is 3-5, Master is 6-7. The scrolls are unstable, so they only last until the next daily prep. There's also the Skim Scroll feat, which is 1 Action to pull out a scroll and Trick Magic it.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

How many actions do the marshal feats cost to use per turn? Do any of their marshal abilities last more than 1 round or just 1 round each?


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Moximus wrote:
rainzax wrote:

What about additional Skill Feat support for those that are pretty bare-bone in CRB, for example:

-Arcana
-Nature
-Occultism
-Religion

Arcana remains pretty bare, with no new skill feats.

Nature, however, gets 2. Religion gets 2, and Occultism scores a whopping 4 new skill feats!

Nature
Express Rider (1)
Influence Nature (7)

Religion
Pilgrims Token (1)
Extort the Faithful (2)

Occultism
Deceptive Worship (1)
Root Magic (1)
Schooled in Secrets (1)
Disturbing Knowledge (7)

Arcana, Nature, Occultism, and Religion don't have these under their headers on the skill feats chart, but there are 2 skill feats that have a bearing on Nature, Occultism, and Religion, while only 1 of these 2 feats has some bearing on Arcana. These 2 feats are Assured Identification and Consult the Spirits, which are part of a new category of skill feats that come under the new header, "Varying Skill Feats". This category of new feats apply to multiple skills. I have already mentioned a couple of these new feats up-thread, but here are the five in this category:

Armor Assist - Lets you don armor more quickly (must be Trained in Athletics or Warfare Lore)
Seasoned - Grants a bonus to Craft food and drink, including potions. (must be Trained in Alcohol Lore, Cooking Lore, or Crafting)
Assured Identification - Avoid misidentifying magic item (must be an Expert in Arcana, Nature, Occultism, or Religion)
Discreet Inquiry - Gather Information without revealing your motive (must be an Expert in Deception or Diplomacy)
Consult the Spirits - Learn about your environment from resident spirits (must be a Master in Nature, Occultism, or Religion)

I really love the flavor of Consult the Spirits and will definitely be getting that feat for any character I can just for the flavor. This single feat can give a cool shamanistic vibe, a spooky seance atmosphere, or an exorcist/holy communion angle, depending on the skill you get it for. It does all this while being mechanically the same for each skill. The RP potential for this is really great, while giving the GM something really useful to seed story in at the same time. Depending on the result of your check, the GM can give you misleading information, too, which can be a neat 'mischievous spirits' mini-scenario.


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Verzen wrote:
How many actions do the marshal feats cost to use per turn? Do any of their marshal abilities last more than 1 round or just 1 round each?

Depends on the feat! When you take the dedication, you get a 10-foot emanation around you at all times that gives you and your allies a +1 bonus to saving throws against fear.

There's an Intimidation and a Diplomacy version of a stance that expands your aura to 20 feet and grants bonus effects. You roll your corresponding skill to a standard DC for your level. It's 1 Action to attempt to go into the stance.

The rest of the feats are 1 Action, 2 Actions, a 1-to-2 Action, and a couple of reactions. You also can pick up AoO as a feat as well. How long they last depends on the feat.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ezekieru wrote:
SoulknifeFan420 wrote:
How does Scroll Trickster work? Do you pick a list to make scrolls from?

Prerequisite is training in either Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Occultism. You get Trick Magic Item and a +2 circumstance bonus to Trick Scrolls, and you treat critical failures as failures.

Basically, in any of the skills you're trained, you can make scrolls of the corresponding tradition. Only scrolls from the CRB, or any spells you've learned via Learn a Spell.

There's a Basic, Expert and Master Scroll Cache feat. Each one gives you a free scroll of a certain level during your daily prep. Basic is 1-2, Expert is 3-5, Master is 6-7. The scrolls are unstable, so they only last until the next daily prep. There's also the Skim Scroll feat, which is 1 Action to pull out a scroll and Trick Magic it.

Yeah, I really like that feat. Honestly, they should have just called it Scrollslinger.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ezekieru wrote:
Verzen wrote:
How many actions do the marshal feats cost to use per turn? Do any of their marshal abilities last more than 1 round or just 1 round each?

Depends on the feat! When you take the dedication, you get a 10-foot emanation around you at all times that gives you and your allies a +1 bonus to saving throws against fear.

There's an Intimidation and a Diplomacy version of a stance that expands your aura to 20 feet and grants bonus effects. You roll your corresponding skill to a standard DC for your level. It's 1 Action to attempt to go into the stance.

The rest of the feats are 1 Action, 2 Actions, a 1-to-2 Action, and a couple of reactions. You also can pick up AoO as a feat as well. How long they last depends on the feat.

How about the feat that gives my party an additional action? What level is it? How many actions does it take from me?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Also the stances that do the intimidation and diplomacy. Is it a status bonus? Untyped? How much does it do?


What's your favourite new 'special' wand?


Could I get a quick rundown of the Occultism Skill Feats?


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Verzen wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:
Verzen wrote:
How many actions do the marshal feats cost to use per turn? Do any of their marshal abilities last more than 1 round or just 1 round each?

Depends on the feat! When you take the dedication, you get a 10-foot emanation around you at all times that gives you and your allies a +1 bonus to saving throws against fear.

There's an Intimidation and a Diplomacy version of a stance that expands your aura to 20 feet and grants bonus effects. You roll your corresponding skill to a standard DC for your level. It's 1 Action to attempt to go into the stance.

The rest of the feats are 1 Action, 2 Actions, a 1-to-2 Action, and a couple of reactions. You also can pick up AoO as a feat as well. How long they last depends on the feat.

How about the feat that gives my party an additional action? What level is it? How many actions does it take from me?

All I hear all day long is, Marshal, Marshal, Marshal!

Ahem... Sorry, had to get that out of my system...

You can only use it to Stride, but basically, if you choose to take the Marshal up on his use of that ability, you just gain an extra action this round, but lose an action next round. The reason is that you are quickened this round and slowed on the next.

Oh, I almost forgot. It is 6th level and it can only be used once per minute.


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Verzen wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:
Verzen wrote:
How many actions do the marshal feats cost to use per turn? Do any of their marshal abilities last more than 1 round or just 1 round each?

Depends on the feat! When you take the dedication, you get a 10-foot emanation around you at all times that gives you and your allies a +1 bonus to saving throws against fear.

There's an Intimidation and a Diplomacy version of a stance that expands your aura to 20 feet and grants bonus effects. You roll your corresponding skill to a standard DC for your level. It's 1 Action to attempt to go into the stance.

The rest of the feats are 1 Action, 2 Actions, a 1-to-2 Action, and a couple of reactions. You also can pick up AoO as a feat as well. How long they last depends on the feat.

How about the feat that gives my party an additional action? What level is it? How many actions does it take from me?

Cadence Call is 1 Action, you can do it once per minute, and it grants everyone an extra action to Stride. If they choose to use that extra action, they're slowed 1 on their next turn. There's a follow-up feat that lets you Stride or Strike with Cadence Call, and doesn't have your allies slowed if they use it.

Answering your other posts, too:

Intimidation stance is a status bonus to damage rolls equal to the highest number of damage die you have between the weapons you're wielding or unarmed attacks. If you or an ally in the aura critically hits an enemy, they become Frightened 1.

Diplomacy stance is a +1 status bonus to attack rolls and rolls against mental effects to you and your allies in the aura.

Critical success on the skill roll expands it to 20 feet. Success gives you the extra bonuses but keeps the aura at 10 feet. Failure, you fail to go into the stance. Critical failure same as failure, and you can't attempt again for 1 minute.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Selkor wrote:
Could I get a quick rundown of the Occultism Skill Feats?

Deceptive Worship - Pass yourself off as a member of a religion

Root Magic - Create a token that grants a bonus against a spell or haunt
Schooled in Secrets - Gather Information about secret societies and mystery cults
Disturbing Knowledge - Frighten foes with occult secrets (Basically, you can scare'em with your spooky, Cthulhu knowledge, but a crit lets you confuse them, too.)

All of these only require you to be trained in Occultism, with the exception of Disturbing Knowledge, which requires Mastery.


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Ashanderai wrote:
Selkor wrote:
Could I get a quick rundown of the Occultism Skill Feats?

Deceptive Worship - Pass yourself off as a member of a religion

Root Magic - Create a token that grants a bonus against a spell or haunt
Schooled in Secrets - Gather Information about secret societies and mystery cults
Disturbing Knowledge - Frighten foes with occult secrets (Basically, you can scare'em with your spooky, Cthulhu knowledge, but a crit lets you confuse them, too.)

All of these only require you to be trained in Occultism, with the exception of Disturbing Knowledge, which requires Mastery.

Oh man I want Disturbing Knowledge so bad, just ramble on about the things in the void and scare people.


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Vallarthis wrote:
What's your favourite new 'special' wand?

The special wands all have a spell with an additional effect. I'm digging the Wand of Crackling Lightning, which lets you cast Lightning Bolt with double the width, and any enemies that fail their saving throw are flat-footed for 1 round.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vallarthis wrote:
What's your favourite new 'special' wand?

Wand of Overflowing Life, I guess. I only see five wands:

Wand of...
...Crackling Lightning - casts lighting bolt, but the area is twice as wide
...Hopeless Night - casts darkness, but creatures left in that darkness become frightened
...the Snowfields - casts cone of cold and then creates difficult terrain
...the Spider - casts web, but the web strands are envenomed
...Overflowing Life - casts heal, but the caster gets excess heal magic used on them the next turn in the form of a single action heal. You get this benefit the following turn after every turn in which you cast heal on someone else from the wand, even if you cast heal more than once that round.

EDIT: I read the wand of overflowing life wrong, apparently, so I changed my answer.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What's the martial artist prereq and what does it give?


Verzen wrote:
What's the martial artist prereq and what does it give?

No prerequisites. And it basically gives you the monk's Powerful Fist feature. There's also a blurb about scaling proficiency, but since the errata made it so unarmed attacks scaled to simple weapon proficiency, it's a dead part of the dedication.

Also, it gives you access to a bunch of Monk stance feats, but no Flurry of Blows.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What's the benefit of going martial artist in your opinion?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Verzen wrote:
What's the martial artist prereq and what does it give?

There are no access requirements and no prerequisites to the dedication feat for Martial Artist. It grants you a long list of monk feats and three new ones (after the dedication) that are unique to Martial Artist. These feats are:

Martial Artist Dedication (2nd)
Follow-Up Strike (6th)
Grievous Blow (8th)
Path of Iron (14th)

The list of monk feats count as martial artist feats at different levels (typically two levels behind when the monk would get them, from what I remember about the monk, but I did not look them up to make sure). Those levels are 4th, 8th, and 16th. From what I can tell, these are mostly Stance feats.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I got sleepy brain now, so I'm gonna go hit the hay.

Grand Lodge

I have created an archer character, he is based on the fighter class. Do you know if the new APG Archer Archtype will bring some additional archer coolness for my guy or if the primary thrust of the archer archtype is to give other classes a taste of archer coolness?

Will it make sense for my fighter to take the Archer archtype or will it be redundant?

Thanks for the time.

Denge


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Denge Fevor wrote:

I have created an archer character, he is based on the fighter class. Do you know if the new APG Archer Archtype will bring some additional archer coolness for my guy or if the primary thrust of the archer archtype is to give other classes a taste of archer coolness?

Will it make sense for my fighter to take the Archer archtype or will it be redundant?

Thanks for the time.

Denge

For Fighter archers? There's 2 feats that'll be useful for you. Quick Shot is a 1-Action feat that lets you draw a reload 0 bow and Strike. The other is Archer's Aim. 2-Actions, but you get a +2 circumstance bonus to the attack, ignore the concealed condition of the target, and if they're hidden, you lower the flat check from 11 to 5.

There's also an Advanced Bow weapon proficiency feat to treat Advanced Bows as martial weapons for proficiency, but if you're a Fighter that'll be redundant. It's Level 6 though, so maybe it's something to pick up and then retrain out of later.

There's a final feat, but it's for crossbows.


How do witches relate to their patrons? Are the patrons directly giving the witches their powers, or are they more like teachers or allies?


The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
Long John wrote:
Be there anything that would help an ol' Gentleman of Fortune forge his path on the open seas?
Arr! The Pirate archetype be what yer looking for! Feats fer rope-swingin' and plank-walkin' abound, and any who swear themself to the pursuit o' plunder can learn the art o' the cutlass, whip, an' boardin' ax. (Or 'scimitars and rapiers', whips, and 'hatchets' as the landlubbers call them)

Do the Pirate options still consume Class feats or did they make the rather niche stuff use up Skill Feats?

Ashanderai wrote:

Deceptive Worship - Pass yourself off as a member of a religion

Schooled in Secrets - Gather Information about secret societies and mystery cults

Please tell me this just gives bonuses to those things rather than requiring the feat to attempt.


Might as well join in and ask about a summary of the nature feats if you could please.


At what level can the dragon,slime, and imp be taken?


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Cruel: Patrons are directly granting the power to their Witches, with the familiar acting as the conduit. You do still have Lessons, but they're all feats. The first level one that grants you which spell tradition you cast from is the Patron Theme.

Milo: There's one feat that's also a skill feat (Rope Runner). The dedication and the other 2 feats are regular archetype feats, so they'll take your class feats.

Deceptive Worship lets you use Occultism instead of Deception to pass off as a member of a religion (if you're trying to impersonate someone specific in a religion, you still use Deception).

Schooled in Secrets lets you use Occultism instead of Diplomacy to Gather Information about secret cults and organizations. If YOU belong to such a cult or organization, you automatically recognize a fellow member, unless they're intentionally trying to conceal themselves.

Soulknife: There's 2. Express Rider lets you Nature check your mount to try and get them to move faster during non-combat travel. The DC is either based on the mount's level or the difficulty of the terrain, whichever is more difficult. On a success, increase the travel speed by half.

Influence Nature lets you influence the behavior of animals in the area. You spend typically a day or two of downtime, and while you can't choose what to do, you can have hopes for what adjustments are done. Such as an easier time hunting, or signs that danger is coming. GM sets the DC. If you're legendary, it only takes 10 minutes.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
At what level can the dragon,slime, and imp be taken?

To get the special familiars, you have to able to give a familiar enough special abilities. The standard for familiars is only 2 abilities, with adding bonus abilites through feats like "Enhanced Familiar"

To get the Spellslime, you need to able to give 4 abilities, 6 for the Fairie dragon, and 8 for the Imp.

So a wizard, or someone taking the "Familiar Master" Archetype, could get the spellslime by level 2. With the archetype, dragon by level 6 and the Imp by level 10. There's likely other methods for adding abilites for familiars (I know witches get more abilities for their familiars, for example)


Witch familiars get an extra ability at 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th levels.


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Ezekieru wrote:


Milo: There's one feat that's also a skill feat (Rope Runner). The dedication and the other 2 feats are regular archetype feats, so they'll take your class feats.

Okay. I suppose that's an improvement.

Quote:

Deceptive Worship lets you use Occultism instead of Deception to pass off as a member of a religion (if you're trying to impersonate someone specific in a religion, you still use Deception).

Schooled in Secrets lets you use Occultism instead of Diplomacy to Gather Information about secret cults and organizations. If YOU belong to such a cult or organization, you automatically recognize a fellow member, unless they're intentionally trying to conceal themselves.

@_@ That should just be how the skill system works to begin with.


Moximus wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
At what level can the dragon,slime, and imp be taken?

To get the special familiars, you have to able to give a familiar enough special abilities. The standard for familiars is only 2 abilities, with adding bonus abilites through feats like "Enhanced Familiar"

To get the Spellslime, you need to able to give 4 abilities, 6 for the Fairie dragon, and 8 for the Imp.

So a wizard, or someone taking the "Familiar Master" Archetype, could get the spellslime by level 2. With the archetype, dragon by level 6 and the Imp by level 10. There's likely other methods for adding abilites for familiars (I know witches get more abilities for their familiars, for example)

Thank you. So really the only way to get them is to either take the FM class or wait a long while? Are there pictures of these familiars?


Milo v3 wrote:
@_@ That should just be how the skill system works to begin with.

Completely agree. Feats which step on the core skill system are inherently problematic (doubly so in PFS). :-(

Contributor

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
This is only tangentially related, but why are demon blooded tieflings called Pitborn? Hell is often referred to as The Pit, but I haven’t heard the Abyss being referred to as the Pit.

Abyss and pit are both words for holes in the ground.

Silver Crusade

bugleyman wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
@_@ That should just be how the skill system works to begin with.
Completely agree. Feats which step on the core skill system are inherently problematic (doubly so in PFS). :-(

These don’t though (there is a fine line between what should be open and what should require purchase I completely agree).

Occultism lets you know about Occult stuff.

The first feat lets you pretend to actually be a member of a cult instead of Deception, convincingly pretending to be a member goes beyond merely knowing about them.

The second let’s you use it in place of Diplomacy for gather information, not recall knowledge and auto identity people who belong to a secretive group you belong to.

Normally:

Occultism: I know about this cult.

Diplomacy: I know these specific people are part of this cult.


"I want to use my knowledge of this cult to dress and act in a way that will help me blend in" seems reasonable to me, and it feels like the way to reflect that in mechanics is the allow the use of the occultism skill instead of deception.

Admittedly that could just be down to my being more liberal in the application of skills that the core rules intend, because I can also imagine a socially awkward, bookish type failing to blend in despite exhaustive knowledge of the cult.

The existence of these feats may be a sign that I need to tighten up the permissiveness of my skill adjudication when running 2E (and especially PFS).

Contributor

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bugleyman wrote:

"I want to use my knowledge of this cult to dress and act in a way that will help me blend in" seems reasonable to me, and it feels like the way to reflect that in mechanics is the allow the use of the occultism skill instead of deception.

Admittedly that could just be down to my being more liberal in the application of skills that the core rules intend, because I can also imagine a socially awkward, bookish type failing to blend in despite exhaustive knowledge of the cult.

The existence of these feats may be a sign that I need to tighten up the permissiveness of my skill adjudication when running 2E (and especially PFS).

While I tend to be a bit more lax in my home games, I generally wouldn't allow it if we were playing as 'by the book' as PFS. The reason why there's a feat tax on using skills in different ways is because without it, there's not a lot of incentive for players to diversify their skills as long as they can find some justification for using the skill they want to use.

With feats like this, you have a choice - do you want to put everything into Occultism and get a little more flexibility in how you use it, or would you rather take another ability and put more of your skill boosts into Deception?

Liberty's Edge

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These feats are useful for players with GMs who are less open to innovative uses of a skill in place of another.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Or for GMs with players with less innovative ideas for uses of skills.


Are there any new Rituals that have been added in the APG?

Silver Crusade

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bugleyman wrote:

"I want to use my knowledge of this cult to dress and act in a way that will help me blend in" seems reasonable to me, and it feels like the way to reflect that in mechanics is the allow the use of the occultism skill instead of deception.

Admittedly that could just be down to my being more liberal in the application of skills that the core rules intend, because I can also imagine a socially awkward, bookish type failing to blend in despite exhaustive knowledge of the cult.

The existence of these feats may be a sign that I need to tighten up the permissiveness of my skill adjudication when running 2E (and especially PFS).

Another way to look at it is:

Knowing art history and about technique is one thing, actually painting something is a completely different set of skills.


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bugleyman wrote:

"I want to use my knowledge of this cult to dress and act in a way that will help me blend in" seems reasonable to me, and it feels like the way to reflect that in mechanics is the allow the use of the occultism skill instead of deception.

Admittedly that could just be down to my being more liberal in the application of skills that the core rules intend, because I can also imagine a socially awkward, bookish type failing to blend in despite exhaustive knowledge of the cult.

The existence of these feats may be a sign that I need to tighten up the permissiveness of my skill adjudication when running 2E (and especially PFS).

I also have a fairly liberal interpretation of the rules, but if someone wants to substitute a skill for another, I typically apply a penalty (usually between -2 for something that's pretty reasonable and applicable, such as rolling Occultism to use your knowledge of cults to make a convincing disguise for infiltrating a cult, to -5 for things where the substituted skill could have some help, but doesn't share much in terms of intended application as the other skill, such as using occultism to actually impersonate a cultist, since Occultism is fundamentally about magical theory, and not about interaction). Lore, for the most part, I allow to be used in almost all applications within its focus with little to no penalty since they are required to be narrow focused.

I've found that this house rule actually tends to encourage players to help each other out, but still keeps skill feats relevant. Most of my players wouldn't want to risk the -5 to impersonate a cultist, but still might if they had to, but they would almost always jump on using the -2 to roll Aid for the rogue's Impersonate by making sure their disguise is better. It also seems fairly in the spirit of the rules, since the book already says non lore/craft/perform skills an be used to earn income, though at a penalty, and the APs sometimes feature odd uses for skills.


Selkor wrote:
Are there any new Rituals that have been added in the APG?

New as in "never before in Pathfinder" new, or just Ritual spells in general for this book? 'Cause there's 13 ritual spells. I haven't played PF1E, so I couldn't tell you what is or isn't brand new.


I think I overhyped myself too much for this book. I was hoping it might fix some problems I have with the system, or at least get in some work arounds, but it doesn't so much. I personally can't bring myself to be excited over things with an uncommon tag - I want to be able to bring my character over into whatever game and play, not have to convince someone that it's cool (and forget pfs). I also feel that items are too important in 2e, and there's no fixes in here I can get behind. Weapon improvisor is very dependant on what's around you, which one has little control over most of the time. Scrounger is another one I was excited for but again, it's uncommon, and again isn't very reliable. If the gm feels like you can't get enough materials, you're out of luck.

Second edition puts too much power in the GM's hands, in my opinion. They already control the entire universe, give players more control over how they want to play. It's a shame because there's so much to like about the system, it's so close to perfect. That's probably why it bums me out so much that these little issues make such big problems, at least for me.

Silver Crusade

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In P1 the further you got outside of core you already had to get GMs to okay certain options (especially with things like Gunslingers and Summoners).

That's a very interesting suite of GMs and tables you've had access to if you had been doing that till P2, but in my experience and what I've observed "I want to be able to bring my character over into whatever game and play, not have to convince someone that it's cool" has never been thing, in Pathfinder or Dungeons and Dragons.

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