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I hope one of them is the Esoteric Order of the Palatine Eye.
They weren't on the list I was responding to, if it helps.
While I could take a stab at it, given the choice to work on the Esoteric Order in great depth (whether that was in this book or a future one)... I would choose not to.
This isn't because I don't favor the Esoteric Order, but because I know I don't have the background and depth of knowledge for such a topic. I'd rather see them in the capable hands of someone like Brandon Hodge, who wrote the original Carrion Crown article and is an expert on real-world occultism.
Sometimes it's important to know when one isn't the best fit for a given topic. ^_^
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Thank you for that insight Isabelle! :)
This looks like a great book!
I would love to see more info on the Knights of Ozem, Brotherhood of Bones, & the White Witches of Irrisen. I mean anything that has to do CoCT, RoW, & Iomedae makes me squee like a little girl.
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I can see why some including myself dislike the title. It is confusing imo. When I first saw the title I was expecting something along the lines of the APG. Unless oen reads the product description the title is imo misleading. I will still buy it but from now I'm on i'm carefully going to be reading the product descriptions from now on.
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I wish it was like the APG.
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Speaking as a subscriber who is very on the fence about this:
Since this is an experiment, please please please get numerous previews out as early as possible. Most of the time, we subs are getting our auth spawns about the time preview 1 goes out and if the machines don't rebel, we often have our orders in process before preview 2. As others have mentioned, this hasn't really been covered much (I had no idea it existed til I checked the pre-orders tab of RPG to see when B6 was dropping). For those of us who play in our own worlds for whatever reason, getting a good feel for whether this will be too much golarion peanut butter in our RPG chocolate early enough for our subscriber wallets to speak loudest is paramount.
Perhaps its all the short content blurb's fault, and the final product description will fix everything. But the blurb feels like products I have already. I would just hope you guys give us enough information up front that we can make an informed decision with our subscription purchase.
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I love where this is going. Will be buying this. I did have a question that I did not see answered. Will these prestige classes be new or will some be reprints i.e. For the hellknights will we be seeing the hellknight prc or hellknight signifier prc. Just wanted to know because out of the 11 groups named 10 have at least one PRC, a couple have more then one.
I can see why some including myself dislike the title. It is confusing imo. When I first saw the title I was expecting something along the lines of the APG....
I agree the title does seem confusing. most of the description talks more about the golarion aspect then rules for adventuring. But I am biased as I really like golarion.
It does sound more like 'Golarion Faction Member's Guide' rather than a generic 'Adventurer's Guide'...
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-"Adventurer's Guide of Golarion"
Limits this book's appeal to people.
-"Adventure Group Guide"
-"Adventure Guild Guide"
Still sounds generic, but includes the group aspect.
The title as it is now is so broad, that it appeals to a maximum number of people, which is understandable from a marketing pov, but sounds wrong somehow in context to the content.
Of course a character doesn't has to become a member of a group to pick up a feat, spell or item, but it has been developed by that group.
This should somehow be reflected in the title imo.
Otherwise the content could be anything with this title.
Nice to see that the Cypher Mages are getting some attention ;)
I think I"m going to like this book. I'm certainly not put off by the idea of including Golarion-specific material in the RPG product line. The title doesn't bother me, although "Adventurer's Guide to Organizations" might be a bit better.
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I agree the title does seem confusing. most of the description talks more about the golarion aspect then rules for adventuring. But I am biased as I really like golarion.
I don't mind the Golarion aspect. It just seems less like a adventurers guide and more a guide about Golarion organizations. It should be renamed imo though I doubt it will happen.
This looks like it will be an interesting book.
-"Adventurer's Guide of Golarion"
Limits this book's appeal to people.
-"Adventure Group Guide"
-"Adventure Guild Guide"Still sounds generic, but includes the group aspect.
The title as it is now is so broad, that it appeals to a maximum number of people, which is understandable from a marketing pov, but sounds wrong somehow in context to the content.
Of course a character doesn't has to become a member of a group to pick up a feat, spell or item, but it has been developed by that group.
This should somehow be reflected in the title imo.
Otherwise the content could be anything with this title.
Personally, I think Ultimate Organizations would be a fitting title.
Might be a little late to change it at this point, though. In general, I'm perfectly fine with this book and look forward to it. Since its primary focus seems to be on character options instead of fluff, the RPG line seems like the best place for it. Should be interesting.
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The answer is almost certainly one of those, KarlBob. ^_^
Creative Director
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I'm wondering whether this book will unify the older Faction Points/Prestige Points systems with the newer Organizational Influence system, or address one and ignore the others, or skip them all.
Nope; this isn't a book about joining a faction and gaining power in that faction.
Right, it's a book to guide adventurers.
I'm wondering whether this book will unify the older Faction Points/Prestige Points systems with the newer Organizational Influence system, or address one and ignore the others, or skip them all.Nope; this isn't a book about joining a faction and gaining power in that faction.
That is fine with me! I would hate for my Faction Guide to become irrelevant...love that book! Of course, if I played PFS, it would be obsolete, I believe. Sad.
Hmmmm more info on Mammoth Lords?! That will be welcome.
I am still hoping there will be details on the Twilight Talons in that Eagle Knight info...
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I moved my campaigns out of Golarion a couple of years ago but I'm still looking forward to this book.
Even if I was still using Golarion as my setting, it would be rare that every organization contained within this book would be implemented 100% as written. An oft-stated "best-practice" of GMing is that a gamemaster should adapt adventure modules to their characters and campaigns. I don't see adapting organizations as being any different. While I can appreciate a time-poor GM wanting to be able to "drag-and-drop" content straight from the book, in reality, most GMs are going to tweak here and there for their respective campaigns.
Additionally, Prestige Classes fall into a design space where the whole concept was for tailoring classes for organizations - at least that was the original intent. Much of the 3.x-era Prestige Classes tried to go the generic route either out of a desire for "broad appeal" or b/c 3PPs were restricted from creating organizations in WotC campaign settings.
Paizo has consistently stated from the beginning that when they approach Prestige Classes that they do so from the campaign-integration standpoint (aside from the ones in the CRB) and that archetypes were a better method of handling the setting-neutral customization options.
Finally, even if you don't want campaign setting material in your RPG-line books, these organizations should be able to provide inspiration and baseline examples of how a GM could build their own prestige classes for their campaign settings.
Bottom line, I see plenty of potential use & benefit to this book even if your individual campaigns aren't set in Golarion.
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I'm wondering whether this book will unify the older Faction Points/Prestige Points systems with the newer Organizational Influence system, or address one and ignore the others, or skip them all.Nope; this isn't a book about joining a faction and gaining power in that faction.
Oh, so it's not too early after all. Thank you.
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I don't think anyone is really saying that the book won't be useful. Just that the title is very misleading imo. Say I buy a book called the Complete Gardener. It turns out to be a book on how to include and cook garden vegetables into dishes. Well i'm not going to be happy. As the title has nothing to do with the material in the book. As Pluvia33 suggested a better name should be Ultimate Organizations.
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Since Mr. Jacobs was nice enough to weigh in, I feel able to address this more effectively (although I still can't say too much).
Calling the book "Ultimate Organizations" or "Factions of Golarion" (or any other "Faction Guide, but bigger" title) would be even more misleading than Adventurer's Guide. This isn't a book about joining factions. It's not a book about how to join and serve the Hellknights, or how to advance in the Hellknights' ranks, or the in-depth mechanical details of how the Hellknights function as a faction or organization. And if I'm buying a book called "Ultimate Organizations"... and it didn't include any of that... I would feel legitimately misled by the title.
I look forward to hearing peoples' thoughts once they see what's in the book. I'm certainly excited for it. ^_^
Which parts of this book's material are closest to the "correct content" for a book called Adventurer's Guide?
Which of this book's new rules, game content, and/or subsystems do you feel best reflect the proposed new title of "Ultimate Organizations"?
Please be as specific as possible, including names and page numbers where possible. Thank you.
It's a guide for adventurers. It has things they need/want to know about the world around them, as well as items, spells and the like. It seems like the title covers what the book is about. It's a guide. It's for adventurers.
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As for it being Golarion specific it makes sense. Just as 5E material is geared towards Forgotten Realms. It amkes sense for a rpg company to gear the new material towards their more popular campaign setting. Would it be nice for it to be setting neutral sure but it's not that big of a deal breaker for me at least
As for planet Bob
All Hail the Bobpods.
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Creative Director
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Folks; we're still way too early to start dropping significant information here on the book's contents beyond what we've revealed so far. I do understand that some folks feel that the title of the book isn't exactly what they'd like, but this isn't a democracy. The title of a book needs to serve many masters, especially for big releases like hardcovers. And high up on the list of those masters are the buyers and distributors of books who purchase them from us and sell them to retailers, be they Amazon, or a book store, or whatever... and if a book has a title with words that folks like this who are usually not gamers understand, that can result in them ordering fewer (or no) books, which means that fewer (or no) customers can purchase them.
So in a way... it might help to think of the contents of the book are for us gamers, while the titles are for those who allow the book to go from us to you.
In any event, as we get closer to the book's release next year, we'll certainly have more to say about the contents. I'm about 55% of the way through developing the book at this moment, and am hoping to finish that job by the time I head home for the holidays, which means I should get back to work!
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Folks; we're still way too early to start dropping significant information here on the book's contents beyond what we've revealed so far. I do understand that some folks feel that the title of the book isn't exactly what they'd like, but this isn't a democracy. The title of a book needs to serve many masters, especially for big releases like hardcovers. And high up on the list of those masters are the buyers and distributors of books who purchase them from us and sell them to retailers, be they Amazon, or a book store, or whatever... and if a book has a title with words that folks like this who are usually not gamers understand, that can result in them ordering fewer (or no) books, which means that fewer (or no) customers can purchase them.
So in a way... it might help to think of the contents of the book are for us gamers, while the titles are for those who allow the book to go from us to you.
Cheers, James. That's a useful perspective it's hard to remember when you just want the one copy. :)
So if there's at least one new prestige class per faction, Hellknights are one of the factions, and we already have two prestige classes for Hellknights (Hellknight and Hellknight Signifier) then what could we be getting? I'm thinking we might get a stealthy/roguish Hellknight PrC based on assassinating heretics and lawbreakers, and/or a psychic-magic focused spellcasting Hellknight.
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So my experience just for feed back purposes.
I ignored this thread the first 4 or 5 times I saw it. Based on the name of the book. However I was like ok hardback I'll give it a look. I clicked it and read the Description and It Immediately put me on the fence. I said to myself " hmm am i really gonna use a lot of Golarion specific content." This is from someone who owns all your guys hardback rpg line and a fair amount of your Campaign line.
However after reading Various posts about How a lot of the content will Not be as exclusive as the description had me believe It will probably be one I pick up as long as the options in the book are rumored as quality. I will say a line about how the options could be usable for people not of a faction could help people that don't read through the thread.
Kudos to Erik's posts that changed my mind about the book!