Pathfinder Player Companion: Healer's Handbook (PFRPG)

The only evil healing options I can think of would be to drain life from one(or more) target(s) to heal another(others). Maybe one that grants fast healing or regeneration based on targets killed or dying, maybe feeding of necromantic energy.

The only evil healing options I can think of would be to drain life from one(or more) target(s) to heal another(others). Maybe one that grants fast healing or regeneration based on targets killed or dying, maybe feeding of necromantic energy.

Casting healing spells as an Evil Cleric actually does not require Evil acts. And most healing available to Good / Neutral casters does not require Good acts either.

Why should non-Cleric Evil healing be shackled so ?

A feat that would let you swap what energy you channel would be neat, or do we already have that?

Such a feat should be limited to those clerics who are neutral on the good-evil scale. IMO, of course, but I'm right. :-)

A feat that would let you swap what energy you channel would be neat, or do we already have that?

Flexible Channeler exists, and kind of limits how good a new similar feat would be.

Ah, hmm...

Then what about a universal healing ability that well, heals everything? Similar to how Fast Healing works

Ah, hmm...

Then what about a universal healing ability that well, heals everything? Similar to how Fast Healing works

I have been told that's called "time".

Rysky wrote:

A feat that would let you swap what energy you channel would be neat, or do we already have that?

Flexible Channeler exists, and kind of limits how good a new similar feat would be.

Not necessarily. Although in my opinion this should really just be a base option, and more in line with a Trait than a Feat, something that only Good or Evil, not Neutral Clerics could take that simply allows them to Channel either Positive or Negative Energy, (but not the other one) as they want, without regard for their Deity is very different than Flexible Channeler, which allows Neutral Only Clerics to do both.

Rysky wrote:

Ah, hmm...

Then what about a universal healing ability that well, heals everything? Similar to how Fast Healing works

I have been told that's called "time".

:3

I meant how Fast Healing works on both living and undead.

If I were writing an ability that allowed clerics of off-alignments to channel the other side's energy - which I'm not* - I would attach it only to certain deities, the way subdomains are. I don't think there's any circumstance in which clerics of Shelyn or Sarenrae should regularly have access to channel negative energy; the same is true of Urgathoa or Orcus and positive energy. That said, it doesn't seem utterly beyond the pale for "brutal" good deities (like Ragathiel) or "deceptive/tempting" evil deities (such as Norgorber or Pazuzu) to offer a path to the alternative.

I always did think that Lamashtans should have the ability to channel positive energy to a limited degree, given that in the fluff they and their goddess loathe undead and venerate new life and fertility.

Of course if you accept healing from one you probably get an arm like a troll's or your face now looks like a goblin's, but hey, you've been healed.

I always did think that Lamashtans should have the ability to channel positive energy to a limited degree, given that in the fluff they and their goddess loathe undead and venerate new life and fertility.

Of course if you accept healing from one you probably get an arm like a troll's or your face now looks like a goblin's, but hey, you've been healed.

Would I be an attractive goblin?

I always did think that Lamashtans should have the ability to channel positive energy to a limited degree, given that in the fluff they and their goddess loathe undead and venerate new life and fertility.

Of course if you accept healing from one you probably get an arm like a troll's or your face now looks like a goblin's, but hey, you've been healed.

Another good example. ^_^

If I were writing an ability that allowed clerics of off-alignments to channel the other side's energy - which I'm not* - I would attach it only to certain deities, the way subdomains are. I don't think there's any circumstance in which clerics of Shelyn or Sarenrae should regularly have access to channel negative energy; the same is true of Urgathoa or Orcus and positive energy. That said, it doesn't seem utterly beyond the pale for "brutal" good deities (like Ragathiel) or "deceptive/tempting" evil deities (such as Norgorber or Pazuzu) to offer a path to the alternative.

I don't see why not, honestly. I can see pretty much any follower of any deity having a reason to want to appear as a follower of another for possibly infiltration. Because neither Positive Energy or Negative Energy are either Good or Evil, it also really doesn't make any sense that Clerics (or other classes) would really be restricted to one or the other.

Could Iomedae or Sarenrae have followers that are more interested in blasting enemies than healing allies? Sure, why not. And does it make sense? Unquestionably.

Would the faithful of Urgathoa find a great deal of benefit from those that can tend the living members of the faith? Absolutely.

I'm having a very hard time thinking of a deity or follower of a deity that couldn't have a good reason for using the opposite type of energy.

Never understood why you had to choose one or the other but it has been that way for a long while now. I can see evil clerics using healing spells to make money, pretend to be good, or just to save their own lives.

Never understood why you had to choose one or the other but it has been that way for a long while now. I can see evil clerics using healing spells to make money, pretend to be good, or just to save their own lives.

Nothing is stopping them from doing that. They just have to prep those spells.

*still waiting on those paladin 'mercies'*

Maybe the angelfire apostle cleric only gets the healing domain.

W-w-wait. Faith Singer Bard? Bard? Faith? Divine? Divine Bard?!

*shaking intensifies*

Maybe. I hope I don't get anybody's hopes up if that's not what that is.

As long as the bard archetype keeps charisma as it's casting stat I will be fine.

I hope we get a few new magic items specialized for healers in here. At my last count from Ultimate Equipment there were only 2-3 items aside from expendables like wands and potions that really help at healing.

I hope we get a few new magic items specialized for healers in here. At my last count from Ultimate Equipment there were only 2-3 items aside from expendables like wands and potions that really help at healing.

Of which the Sapling Rod is my favorite. I'd love a Greater version of that with options like Cure Serious Wounds and Restoration.

A lot more non-one use healing/curative magic items would be nice.

Rysky wrote:

Ah, hmm...

Then what about a universal healing ability that well, heals everything? Similar to how Fast Healing works

I have been told that's called "time".

Also known as:

Signature Skill: Heal

(seriously worth the feat even for a cleric as it scales with level and you can literally cram 3 to 6 day's worth of healing after an hour of work per creature... eases the load / need for wands of lesser restoration...)

There are also ways to further boost Heal skill healing.

For example, the new Runeguard prestige class in Paths of the Righteous can use the rune of kindness once per day per class level to give double the normal effect of treat deadly wounds as a standard action. With no limit on how many times per day it can be applied to a single target.

The Battlefield Surgeon and Friendless traits could potentially allow someone to be an effective healer even in a no magic campaign... though the default pre-requisites are unfortunate.

The Faith Healing occult skill unlock and Psychic Healing feat add several useful Heal skill options.

Et cetera.

The only evil healing options I can think of would be to drain life from one(or more) target(s) to heal another(others). Maybe one that grants fast healing or regeneration based on targets killed or dying, maybe feeding of necromantic energy.

All depends on flavor. There was a 3.0 supplement called Book of VIle Darkness that posited an evil god of Healing, but didn't really give an example. So I took that as a challenge.

My next character was a CN cleric of a hero-god of "escaped consequences" that preached healing magic was a mortal's way around the normal cause and effect, checks and balances that the world put in place to "restrict freedom" (revel in chaos-murder-destruction, although my CN cleric didnt actually get up to more murdering and pillaging than your average adventurer).

So if you see healing as not a merciful gift of a benevolent deity, but a way for a cleric to say "your limited morality does not apply to me," evil healing can make sense.

IIRC, the other domain was liberation, but I've honestly lost my notes from that time. It was for a one-session appearance while I was visiting my cousins.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I hope we get a few new magic items specialized for healers in here. At my last count from Ultimate Equipment there were only 2-3 items aside from expendables like wands and potions that really help at healing.

Of which the Sapling Rod is my favorite. I'd love a Greater version of that with options like Cure Serious Wounds and Restoration.

Now that item is pretty good. What game book does it come from>

Gisher wrote:

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I hope we get a few new magic items specialized for healers in here. At my last count from Ultimate Equipment there were only 2-3 items aside from expendables like wands and potions that really help at healing.

Of which the Sapling Rod is my favorite. I'd love a Greater version of that with options like Cure Serious Wounds and Restoration.

Now that item is pretty good. What game book does it come from>

The sapling rod is from Ultimate Equipment.

So there will be 10 healing themed archetypes, we know there will be a bard one, a cleric one, a paladin one, and a wizard one. Anyone want to guess what the remaining 6 classes will be?

So there will be 10 healing themed archetypes, we know there will be a bard one, a cleric one, a paladin one, and a wizard one. Anyone want to guess what the remaining 6 classes will be?

Kineticist. Obviously. We already have a healing archetype for them, but we already had archetypes for the rest of these too. Or at least some of them.

Primarily wishful thinking, but: investigator, psychic, sorcerer, unchained monk, and unchained rogue. Investigator being able to apply inspiration to Heal checks and gaining some special abilities allowing them to remove various conditions, a more healing-oriented psychic (though this could also be a new discipline, since currently only Faith helps a little), sorcerer I would kind of like one that trades out bloodline powers for being able to do things like either channel positive energy (better than the empyreal bloodline) or gain a version of the paladin's lay on hands and mercies or something similar, unchained monk, though this could also just be some new ki powers, more stuff to let them heal via ki use, they do have some thanks to qinggong monk ki powers, but more would be neat, and unchained rogue for a medic that specializes in the skill unlock for heal, possibly being able to use the Heal skill to remove various conditions and such...though being able to inflict more conditions with their sneak attack would also be neat.

By default, alchemists and investigators can only heal themselves with their extracts at 1st level. They are obvious candidates to swap out one of their 1st level abilities for the infusion discovery at 1st level.

By default, alchemists and investigators can only heal themselves with their extracts at 1st level. They are obvious candidates to swap out one of their 1st level abilities for the infusion discovery at 1st level.

Though it's second level, this is exactly what the Chirurgeon from Ultimate Magic does, though I could see an Investigator analogue in this book.

Primarily wishful thinking, but: investigator, psychic, sorcerer, unchained monk, and unchained rogue. Investigator being able to apply inspiration to Heal checks and gaining some special abilities allowing them to remove various conditions, a more healing-oriented psychic (though this could also be a new discipline, since currently only Faith helps a little), sorcerer I would kind of like one that trades out bloodline powers for being able to do things like either channel positive energy (better than the empyreal bloodline) or gain a version of the paladin's lay on hands and mercies or something similar, unchained monk, though this could also just be some new ki powers, more stuff to let them heal via ki use, they do have some thanks to qinggong monk ki powers, but more would be neat, and unchained rogue for a medic that specializes in the skill unlock for heal, possibly being able to use the Heal skill to remove various conditions and such...though being able to inflict more conditions with their sneak attack would also be neat.

Yes to all of this, especially the monk and rogue options. I love the idea of a skillmonkey healer who manages to upgrade their use of the Heal skill (and some alchemical/herbal remedies) to be a viable non-spell/channeling based healer for a party. (Or improved Ki healing options, for the monk, allowing them a vastly improved version of Wholeness of Body that can be shared.)

A more 'Glenda the Good Witch' AT focused on improving options beyond cure light wounds and the healing hex could be neat, as well.

A healing themed summoner, able to summon a positive energy 'elemental' would be wonky.

Ah, the bad old days, before clerics, when the 'fantasy party' idea of a healer was Aragorn using herbs to treat injuries...

I would love a healing/positive energy based summoner. A healing focused druid would be interesting. Non-casting classes like monk, rogue, etc. could use a healing focused archetype as well.

I would really love a positive energy/healing based sorcerer bloodline.

I like the idea of a rogue healer with the battle medic tinge and the idea that they learn the body so well they can inflict devastating effects if given an opening. A lot of fun in that idea. The healing monk is cool too. I want to see anything that expands the idea of a healer beyond a magic caster. While some of those are fine, I want to see more variety in how healing is done rather than retreading spells and channeling. Also a better kineticist healing archetype would be nice.

I don't want a healer kineticist archetype, I want a healer based kineticist element.

I would rather have healing-based wild talents and feats that work with the chirugeon archetype as well as with existing elements and wild talents. We already badly need more wild talents for existing elements, not more elements that can't possibly have enough room in a single player's companion to allow much in the way of versatility.

How about increasing the DC for the Heal skill for accelerated healing?

"Hold on Bilbo! I'll just duct tape the ends together and we'll take care of the rest after the battle."

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I hope we get a few new magic items specialized for healers in here. At my last count from Ultimate Equipment there were only 2-3 items aside from expendables like wands and potions that really help at healing.

Of which the Sapling Rod is my favorite. I'd love a Greater version of that with options like Cure Serious Wounds and Restoration.

Now that item is pretty good. What game book does it come from>

The sapling rod is from Ultimate Equipment.

Thanks, Luthorne, you're a scholar and a gentleman.

And yikes but every time I think I've found every single cool thing in Ultimate Equipment, I find out how wrong I am.

I would rather have healing-based wild talents and feats that work with the chirugeon archetype as well as with existing elements and wild talents. We already badly need more wild talents for existing elements, not more elements that can't possibly have enough room in a single player's companion to allow much in the way of versatility.

I'm fine with that, or a healing focused element. Just better healer options for the class in some fashion.

It doesn't have to be in this book but I do want to see a positive energy based kineticist element one day. But I don't think we need another healing focused archetype for the kineticist. There are plenty of other classes that could use it more.

It doesn't have to be in this book but I do want to see a positive energy based kineticist element one day. But I don't think we need another healing focused archetype for the kineticist. There are plenty of other classes that could use it more.

Positive Energy Kineticist would be awesome.

Dragon78 wrote:

It doesn't have to be in this book but I do want to see a positive energy based kineticist element one day. But I don't think we need another healing focused archetype for the kineticist. There are plenty of other classes that could use it more.

Positive Energy Kineticist would be awesome.

If they do that, they should also do a negative energy element.

brad2411 wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

It doesn't have to be in this book but I do want to see a positive energy based kineticist element one day. But I don't think we need another healing focused archetype for the kineticist. There are plenty of other classes that could use it more.

Positive Energy Kineticist would be awesome.

If they do that, they should also do a negative energy element.

They have one technically, it is the void kinetisicit or chaokineticist.

I am surprised that the Paladin would be getting a healer oriented archetype as they have a nice one with the Hospitaler. But happy for more options!

Healing focused druid with an animal companion would be scary.

Then how about a healing focused druid with the healing domain and some other abilities instead of the animal companion. Maybe even a druid with channeling.

I don't think a healing-focused kineticist element is a good idea. Healing in Pathfinder is balanced around the idea that access to healing is something that's limited for characters. For the hydrokineticist / telekineticist, that limit is via the "putting burn on people" aspect of the kinetic healer utility talent. You'd be talking about an element that would inherently need to have all of its core powers limited to function.

If the conversation shifts to, "Well it would be a positive energy element that could blast people with positive energy," then that means the majority of enemies in the game would simply be immune to everything the element did, which wouldn't be good gameplay.

If the conversation then becomes, "Well make it like the solar outer dragon, who can burn people with positive energy," then we're not talking about a new element any more—we're talking about an archetype for pyrokineticists that manipulated the raw plasma of the stars and the positive energy that emits from them. And while THAT is a cool idea, it also isn't a new kineticist element.

In short, the design of, "What needs to be a new kineticist element and what needs to be an archetype," is an incredibly complicated question that needs to transcend perceived party roles. (It doesn't help that the kineticist is literally designed on a razor's edge, and it is incredibly easy to make an option that is either overpowered or terrible, with very little middle ground between those extremes.)

Rysky wrote:

Ah, hmm...

Then what about a universal healing ability that well, heals everything? Similar to how Fast Healing works

I have been told that's called "time".

I thought that was a spice

I remember thinking that one option that could be interesting would be to simply publish a wood/wood energy-based composite blast that could either be used for healing or act like life blast from Horror Adventures, given that they "channel the power of primordial life". Perhaps an additional utility wild talent could allow you to use it with draining infusion to make it more widely useful, but perhaps at the cost of increasing the amount of burn required for the blast (thus not reduced by infusion specialization) or by reducing the damage dealt to non-undead when you use draining infusion?

Edit: I do like the idea of a healing-based pyrokineticist, though, I've enjoyed the concept of someone who can use the power of fire to burn away curses, diseases, and other maladies for awhile. Fire does have that phoenix effect, but nothing else for the rejuvenating power of flame...