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Non-magical means of dealing with restoration-level maladies or no buy. Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.
Um...first there is the Heal skill. Does all of that.
Second if you are looking non-divine healing they are options. The bard gains some of it. I also play a Hedge Witch with the healing patron...and pretty much I am almost as good as a cleric.
But also the fact that healing is the divine niche....I like that about the game.
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Non-magical means of dealing with restoration-level maladies or no buy. Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.Um...first there is the Heal skill. Does all of that.
You can use the Heal Skill to dispel a permanent negative level? And restore all points permanently drained from a single ability score? Somehow I missed that.
Personally I think all classes should have archetypes and feats that grant healing/curative options of some kind.I would go for this, a fighter that is a field medic would be a cool idea.
That reminds me of Monte Cook's IRON HEROES game. Every character has Hit Points and Reserve Points. Reserve Points was a pool that a character could draw upon when they lost HP. RP was the same as Max HP and was a good substitute for magic healing. The limitation was that you couldn't insta heal and had to wait a few rounds to get yourself topped up unless you had a specific feat for faster healing.
As for the Heal skill, due to the time needed to actually heal HP, you are going to use it as an end of the adventuring day thing more often, since it takes 1 hour to heal 1/hp level
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You can use the Heal Skill to dispel a permanent negative level? And restore all points permanently drained from a single ability score? Somehow I missed that.Non-magical means of dealing with restoration-level maladies or no buy. Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.Um...first there is the Heal skill. Does all of that.
Sorry the person was whining about disease....
And why should mundane things do instant magical things? Kinda destroy the point of mundane non-magical things...
It would be nice to see feats that enhance healing spells, channeling, and lay on hands, and healing abilities.
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Doubt there is still time for changes, but if so... I'd like to see clarification of various healing effects which don't state what types of creatures they effect.
For example, Infernal Healing or Goodberry... some interpret these as healing living, undead, and constructs. Others as working for living creatures only. The text really doesn't say one way or another.
A 1st level object/construct repair spell (something between Mending & Make Whole) would also be a good add for construct PCs.
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Id like to see the Heal Skill boosted, but not by taking away from divine magic. Id actually rather see divine magic maybe boost the skill, or perhaps the opposite, where higher ranks in Heal amplify divine cure/remove spells.
Maybe something like for every 5 Ranks in Heal, you can cast healing spells from scrolls at +1 CL.
Or the skill to open up some for a few things Ive seen it used for just because it sort of fits the best, (psychology, torture/examining torture,etc)
Feats and spells that boost the effects of the heal skill would be interesting as well.
I would love to see Skills expanded. It was interesting in Unchained. Could always use more, IMO.
*will settle for more stuff on arcanist white mage but some other stuff mentioned is pretty cool too*
I want to see more healing related stuff then this book could possibly contain, can't to see what is actually in it though.
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The WotR adventure path really makes a mythic healer cleric very strong. (Ranged healing, swift spontaneous spell casting, the deathless spell...)
Wish list for regular games.
Cleric/full caster: ranged healing, swift heals and maybe a high level sanctuary spell (heightened sanctuary is awesome). I guess a d6 armorless variant would be nice but two arguably useless feats and -1 hp per level won't give much in return.
Druids...unicorn druids.
Oracles: pacifist curse
Perhaps a healing pool? When you really need to give 50 points of healing and don't want to depend on the RNG. Say, 10 points level? Or wands with a healing pool. CLW wand with say 200 points in it(Taking a flat 4 points average and multiplying by 50 charges) So you can use as much as needed without healing 2 points on a charge.
Unicorn druids?! Wouldn't that just make them my little pony?!
Also like I said, white arcanist exploits.
Unicorn Druids?! MLP?! awesome.
...you worry me some times Dragon.
Only sometimes?;)
Look I have other things on my mind other than you, so yes. only sometimes. :p :)
Like how about for this thread: Empathic healing for psychics?
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A healing monk, who transfers his Wholeness of Body to others, and refuels it by destabilizing the chi of enemies with a stunning fist-like attack, or a healing bard with a fast-healing song could be fun.
Just to mix things up. Although a healing rogue, who skips the niche uses of Disable Device and Perception from Trapfinding, for niche uses of the Heal skill, allowing non-magical and *viable* healing, could be super-cool. Chirurgeon or (with some weak alchemical support, although not to the degree that it will turn into something less cost-effective than just buying more wands of cure light wounds...) Apothecary, perhaps (the apothecary option might be a better Investigator AT).
Healing rogue? Why not just have it steal fast healing from some monster and give it to another player?
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Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.
This is true if you ignore bards, witches, alchemists (and investigators) and the occult classes
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A Heal Skill Unlock system, or some sort of active Heal Skill uses might cover a lot of those options.
What could be really cool is if Clerics got an option to add something like a Positive Energy Elemental to their Summon Monster Spells just like the Elementals, perhaps acting similarly to the Pillar of Life spell, and healing those around them for standing near, perhaps granting something like Fast Healing 1 or 2 to everything living that ends it's turn adjacent to the Posemental, and dealing that damage to Undead. Even better if it's not an Oracle option, to help allow the Cleric to do somethings that the Oracle (like Life Oracle) can't and play differently.
That would also do one of the things I've found irksome about a lot of PF "healers", allowing them to both heal and do other cool stuff at the same time.
What could be really cool is if Clerics got an option to add something like a Positive Energy Elemental to their Summon Monster Spells just like the Elementals, perhaps acting similarly to the Pillar of Life spell, and healing those around them for standing near, perhaps granting something like Fast Healing 1 or 2 to everything living that ends it's turn adjacent to the Posemental, and dealing that damage to Undead. Even better if it's not an Oracle option, to help allow the Cleric to do somethings that the Oracle (like Life Oracle) can't and play differently.
I don't think making clerics, "the summoning healers," is necesscarily interesting gameplay for them. While its a neat idea, as a class aren't built around summoning monsters, so it would feel out of place for them. Not to mention that summoning is already one of the most powerful playstyles in the game due to sheer action economy of the creatures you summon.
(Especially at high-level. My herald caller of Sarenrae has the Summon Good Creature feat, and even without this book he can "heal" using SMV by summoning a bunch of agathions who run around and spam lay on hands on his allies for a few rounds. When I get the ability to summon vulpinals, they heal for 3d6 per lay on hands, and can use lay on hands 6 times per day. Over 6 rounds, that's the equivalent of a 17th-level cleric using channel positive energy.)
That would also do one of the things I've found irksome about a lot of PF "healers", allowing them to both heal and do other cool stuff at the same time.
See the above for an example of a cleric who can already do other cool stuff instead of healing. Spontaneous healers are the only one who are really "locked" into healing, especially since as a good cleric I can just toss virtually any spell I want into a healing spell.
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Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.This is true if you ignore bards, witches, alchemists (and investigators) and the occult classes
Can those cast Restoration and Breath of Life ?
Because that is what true healing is all about
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I don't think making clerics, "the summoning healers," is necesscarily interesting gameplay for them. While its a neat idea, as a class aren't built around summoning monsters, so it would feel out of place for them. Not to mention that summoning is already one of the most powerful playstyles in the game due to sheer action economy of the creatures you summon.
(Especially at high-level. My herald caller of Sarenrae has the Summon Good Creature feat, and even without this book he can "heal" using SMV by summoning a bunch of agathions who run around and spam lay on hands on his allies for a few rounds. When I get the ability to summon vulpinals, they heal for 3d6 per lay on hands, and can use lay on hands 6 times per day. Over 6 rounds, that's the equivalent of a 17th-level cleric using channel positive energy.)
I disagree, and I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say, as it seems your example indicates the opposite of your initial point. Is there a Class that is built around Summon Monster? Even the Summoner really isn't "built around it", per se. Summoning is, I think often exaggerated in it's strength/effectiveness, but this is partially because it's power jumps around, because the Cleric Spell List itself is very variable. (For instance, if you are not playing a Battle Cleric or White Mage style Cleric, there just are not a great deal of options for CRB 4th Level Spells. Similarly with 7th and 8th level, there just are not a lot of options you couldn't already do or are that great). Some Spell Levels have a few really good options and others are pretty barren.
I would also argue that the Herald Summoner, A Cleric only Summon Monster focus archetype is hand's down the best Cleric, and possibly best Archetype in the game. Not because it's broken/overpowered/cheese/etc. . ., but because it fixes so many of the intrinsic issues with the Cleric to at least bring it more on par with things outside of the CRB, (4+Int Skill points for example). It's fun, is not limited by deity which is fantastic, and it's pretty well balanced.
I'd also argue that Clerics have lost a lot of ground as far as their intended roll in the game, with the Inquisitor, Oracle, Warpriest, and even Druid now, as well as other classes like the Alchemist and Witch stomping all over their toes. Clerics do not have a single Class Feature that is unique to them, and generally anything a Cleric can do as a focus or a build, at least one, but generally a few other classes can do better, or have options that even a Cleric that specializes in it just can't get close to. And yet, at the same time, being the "healer" is both very mechanically enforced in the class, and difficult to step away from. Only one Archetype I know of, off the top of my head removes Channel Energy, and none remove Spontaneous Cure Spells, meaning even if you are playing a Cha dumping Battle Cleric, you can still be expected to the be healer.
That would also do one of the things I've found irksome about a lot of PF "healers", allowing them to both heal and do other cool stuff at the same time.
See the above for an example of a cleric who can already do other cool stuff instead of healing. Spontaneous healers are the only one who are really "locked" into healing, especially since as a good cleric I can just toss virtually any spell I want into a healing spell.
You misunderstand. I'm mostly talking about doing cool stuff AT THE SAME TIME as healing. Most options are either/or, so a Cleric can either cast Bless or Channel Energy at a given time. The first real time a Cleric-like caster can use Summon Monster to heal is at 5th level, 6th for Oracle) to Summon Monster 3 a Lantern Archon, which has at Will Aid. It's not true healing, but in many ways it's similar enough. Having done so a few times, and even used higher level slots to summon multiple Lantern Archons that can each "heal" or pew-pew was actually very fun, and while not exceptionally powerful or even strong, it was at least interesting, and actually allowed my character to remain a bit on par with so many other classes that get multiple actions through things like pets, although it was very limited.
Instead of healing is one thing, but it's also one thing that typically leads to Player conflict when the Healer chooses to do that other "instead of healing" thing rather than healing. Generally speaking as well, those "instead of healing" options are a lot more scarce until midlevel play.
Summoning is definately one of the most powerful options in game, especially if you have the right feats.
Summoners and some arcanist are also very strong there, since they get the extended duration. Summons can be used to overcome DR and other fun stuff quite well.
I personaly don´t like it, because of the action economy break. Having a half or full caster have several "pets" and then cast spells gets out of hand pretty fast.
Add in that most people who i´ve seen wanting to play this are not prepared well, what i make a requirement by now. More summons means longer turns and more mechanics, less flow and story most often.
Similar things apply to classes with other pets, like animal companions or eidolons, or the spiritualist. It definately gives you more to do, since you just run a second entity in combat. Even if the GM takes it over and requires you to succeed at some skill checks, that´s easily done.
I really don´t think the game needs a lot more of that stuff which draws out gameplay and makes things more complicated. I would really prefer the time it takes to come up with more interesting options there would go into more streamlining again and interesting really new options.
Also more Tian Xia.
A Heal Skill Unlock system, or some sort of active Heal Skill uses might cover a lot of those options.
What could be really cool is if Clerics got an option to add something like a Positive Energy Elemental to their Summon Monster Spells just like the Elementals, perhaps acting similarly to the Pillar of Life spell, and healing those around them for standing near, perhaps granting something like Fast Healing 1 or 2 to everything living that ends it's turn adjacent to the Posemental, and dealing that damage to Undead. Even better if it's not an Oracle option, to help allow the Cleric to do somethings that the Oracle (like Life Oracle) can't and play differently.
That would also do one of the things I've found irksome about a lot of PF "healers", allowing them to both heal and do other cool stuff at the same time.
Clerics can do plenty that Life Oracles can't... such as prepare every clerical spell in the book not forbidden by their diety or their alignment.
Divine magic's exclusive lock on healing is one of the biggest issues of this game and needs to be addressed.This is true if you ignore bards, witches, alchemists (and investigators) and the occult classesCan those cast Restoration and Breath of Life ?
Because that is what true healing is all about
The Chiurgeon Alchemist archetype can cover both those slates.
Did this book's release date get changed or was it always November to begin with?
Did this book's release date get changed or was it always November to begin with?
Well, it definitely wasn't an October release. That's when "Blood of" books come out.
I thought this was November anyways.
Many alternatives to divine healing through archetypes were mentioned above. The only real question left is how many of those actually see play on a scale comparable to the divine healers ?
And if the answer is Not so many, then why is that ?
Not many, but that's probably because lots of people don't use your definition of what "true healing" is. When I have a player specifically request a class that can heal, they're as likely to play a Spiritualist or Witch as an they are an Oracle, and Cleric is usually passed over right away. Hopefully this book will provide some more options for players who want really good healing and don't like divine classes, of course.
If you're using a broader definition, like "able to auto-succeed with a wand of CLW" or "can remove hitpoint and stat damage", then the numbers look better for Team Non-Divine.
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The more non-divine or even non-spell caster healing options the better.
For the Spirit Summoner, you can combine the Sacrifice evolution and the Rejuvenate Eidolon spells as a somewhat inefficient way to heal damage to party members.
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This will sound odd, but I hope we get something for evil healers. Why must they always be good? Bad guys need healing, too.
"Why yes, this will hurt a lot. Now hold still."
:-D
"Why yes, this will hurt a lot. Now hold still."
Sounds like Dr House.
"Is it safe?";)