Announced! Cover image and description not final, and subject to change.
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You mean Sissyl won't be on the cover :-(
Bummer!
Captain,
I'm sure she's got better things to do than put down rebellions.
I look forward to seeing this Lord Marshal.
Is it the lady who's mentioned in the GM-text of In Hell's Bright Shadow as having stormed the Godclaw citadel?
Axial,
Who knows... Right now all we know for sure is the Godclaw took an artifact sacred to Iomedae, and didn't give it back.
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I'm looking forward to the "what happens if they lose" Continuing the Campaign paragraph in this one. "On the whole, that is a good thing for pretty much everyone else."
Snerk. Yea.
If they lose, everyone gets free XP. ;)
Westcrown will be a clean slate for this AP, Shadowbeasts still roam the streets and presumably Ilnerik rules from Walcourt, Delvehaven is still sealed and the Drovanges are skulking about. The GR might be written as dealing with the Shadowcurse at least.
Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?
More likely, the conquest of Westcrown by the Glorious Reclamation has rendered the outcome of Council of Thieves moot. If the heroes of Council of Thieves were successful, the major threats in Westcrown were dealt with then. If they failed or if that adventure never took place, the Glorious Reclamation would have taken care of the same major threats in addition to overthrowing all of the Thrune supporters. Either way, the villains of Hell's Vengeance would find Westcrown in approximately the same condition regardless of earlier events.
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I'm looking forward to the "what happens if they lose" Continuing the Campaign paragraph in this one. "On the whole, that is a good thing for pretty much everyone else."
My expectation would be for Cheliax to burn once Queen Abrogail gets desperate.
She has an actual alliance with Hell; I'd expect the collateral damage if she actually has to invoke it to be staggering.
I suspect the PCs represent the Queen's best bet to get the situation back under control while keeping the damage within acceptable limits.
Senior Developer
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Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?
Hell's Vengeance will assume that the events of Council of Thieves have already taken place. There is an entire Adventure Path's worth of plots in Westcrown (from Council of Thieves) that simply cannot be addressed in a single adventure ("Hell Comes to Westcrown"), so the decision was made to "advance the timeline," so to speak--with regards to Westcrown, at least. The adventure will have more details on this.
Huh, so no doubt Ilnerik got staked either way. A litle dissapointed but considering he is an utter paranoid, RPing with him would be limited.
Thank you for the explanation, Rob.
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Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?Hell's Vengeance will assume that the events of Council of Thieves have already taken place. There is an entire Adventure Path's worth of plots in Westcrown (from Council of Thieves) that simply cannot be addressed in a single adventure ("Hell Comes to Westcrown"), so the decision was made to "advance the timeline," so to speak--with regards to Westcrown, at least. The adventure will have more details on this.
Any chance any of the children of westcrown showing up (with art?)
No doubt either dead/fled(bad end) or dispersed(good end)
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Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?Hell's Vengeance will assume that the events of Council of Thieves have already taken place. There is an entire Adventure Path's worth of plots in Westcrown (from Council of Thieves) that simply cannot be addressed in a single adventure ("Hell Comes to Westcrown"), so the decision was made to "advance the timeline," so to speak--with regards to Westcrown, at least. The adventure will have more details on this.
Thanks, Rob.
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Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?Hell's Vengeance will assume that the events of Council of Thieves have already taken place. There is an entire Adventure Path's worth of plots in Westcrown (from Council of Thieves) that simply cannot be addressed in a single adventure ("Hell Comes to Westcrown"), so the decision was made to "advance the timeline," so to speak--with regards to Westcrown, at least. The adventure will have more details on this.
Very cool.
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Thoughts of Gwendolyn Thistlebrook
And so it ends. This rebellion has been pushed back to the great city of Westbrook. It's the largest city in all of cheliex, and has the natural protection of its massive walls, strong gates, and the sheer scale and number of defensable positions aforded from its layout. If this were an independent enterprise, I would have picked a much softer target. But this is a affair for the cheliexians, therefore we have some advantages. Plus if we fail, the queen is possibly going to sink this city into the abyss, and we can't have that. Maybe I will stay in cheliex after this is all over. Maybe I will actually finish what I started some goodlong years ago. In any case, my new companions may still prove to be an asset in this bloody affair.
CAN'T THIS BLOODY CART MOVE ANY FASTER!!!
Will the Queen of the House of Thrune be statted?
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Senior Developer
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Will the Queen of the House of Thrune be statted?
Queen Abrogail gets a full NPC write up in Pathfinder #106: For Queen & Empire.
Updated with final description and cover image.
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Will the Queen of the House of Thrune be statted?Queen Abrogail gets a full NPC write up in Pathfinder #106: For Queen & Empire.
What are the chances that someone will use this stat up to figure out a way to remove the thrice damned house of thrune from power and take over cheliex for themselves.
Pretty high i would think.
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Any chance any of the children of westcrown showing up (with art?)Interesting. Does this mean the Council of Thieves timeline has advanced, similar to what happened with Shattered Star?Hell's Vengeance will assume that the events of Council of Thieves have already taken place. There is an entire Adventure Path's worth of plots in Westcrown (from Council of Thieves) that simply cannot be addressed in a single adventure ("Hell Comes to Westcrown"), so the decision was made to "advance the timeline," so to speak--with regards to Westcrown, at least. The adventure will have more details on this.
Just thought I would ask this again since were closer to it's release.
I think the lifespan of the CoW is going to be very short in this adventure.
Will the Queen of the House of Thrune be statted?Queen Abrogail gets a full NPC write up in Pathfinder #106: For Queen & Empire.What are the chances that someone will use this stat up to figure out a way to remove the thrice damned house of thrune from power and take over cheliex for themselves.
Pretty high i would think.
Just wanted to chime in that I think it's fantastic - and the kind of thing a (good) campaign can be made around. Paizo has taken a stance that full deity stats will never be provided - that doesn't include important NPCs - and when possible and reasonable we should get outlines of these guys.
Should I (as a GM) want to change my version of the world to break the rule of hell - this shouldn't be a problem. This is NOT a request for such an adventure (although if you did such an adventure it wouldn't break my heart).
I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.
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It's reasonable that Abrogail would rain hell upon Cheliax if she loses, but I don't really want the one evil Adventure Path to end in the greater good being achieved.
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I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.
Bring it on peasants! I'll make Gortholek's next bow tie out of your spine. I couldn't care less what happens to the rest of you, but it'll be fun to find out won't it.
Sinking Westcrown into the sea if you lose it? That is a major port there, you'll be leaving the coast wide open to Shackles pirates.
I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.And have their hard-won independence from Cheliax crushed swiftly by whoever comes after her? :)
Not quite. If you cut off the head of the serpent, the body will destroy itself...especially since as far as we know, Abrogail has no successor. Not to mention seeing the feared Majestrix getting beheaded with a +5 holy vorpal greatsword would strike terror into every Thrune loyalist's heart.
Abrogail will be succeeded by whichever Thrune can pull it off. Most of the Thrune rulers of Cheliax were not the child of the previous ruler. Lots of cousins, siblings, and niece/nephews exploiting their predecessor's untimely death.
I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.And have their hard-won independence from Cheliax crushed swiftly by whoever comes after her? :)Not quite. If you cut off the head of the serpent, the body will destroy itself...especially since as far as we know, Abrogail has no successor. Not to mention seeing the feared Majestrix getting beheaded with a +5 holy vorpal greatsword would strike terror into every Thrune loyalist's heart.
** spoiler omitted **.
Well, keep in mind
But no, Abrogail's successor would simply be which member of House Thrune can murder her and take the crown. If a group of PCs murdered her and took the Crown, then the heir is whoever can sell out hard enough to Hell to get the forces needed to take the Crown from the PCs.
I don't think the Crown has ever passed naturally.
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I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.And have their hard-won independence from Cheliax crushed swiftly by whoever comes after her? :)Not quite. If you cut off the head of the serpent, the body will destroy itself...especially since as far as we know, Abrogail has no successor. Not to mention seeing the feared Majestrix getting beheaded with a +5 holy vorpal greatsword would strike terror into every Thrune loyalist's heart.
** spoiler omitted **.
I'm pretty sure that Iraqis, Libyans and Afghans wouldn't quite agree with you on the 'cut the head and the body will wither' part.
I'm pretty sure that Iraqis, Libyans and Afghans wouldn't quite agree with you on the 'cut the head and the body will wither' part.I think Abrogail having stats will be very valuable to Hell's Rebels parties who want to visit Egorian and put her head on a stake.And have their hard-won independence from Cheliax crushed swiftly by whoever comes after her? :)Not quite. If you cut off the head of the serpent, the body will destroy itself...especially since as far as we know, Abrogail has no successor. Not to mention seeing the feared Majestrix getting beheaded with a +5 holy vorpal greatsword would strike terror into every Thrune loyalist's heart.
** spoiler omitted **.
I don't want to derail this thread, but you actually proved his point, Gorbacz. Historically, in a nation ruled by iron-fisted despots, when you remove the despot things tend to implode. So, Cheliax might well lose its international power as chaos reigns internally until the political and social order somehow resolves itself
Now, despite your obvious inference regarding western interventions in Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq, please don't take my comments above to be a reflection of my views on these campaigns. Their not. They are a historic fact.
That said, in the long run I am confident Cheliax would eventually reassert itself as a powerful nation in the inner sea region: geographic location, resources, demography, cultural cohesion, technology and magic, and military strength would all see to that
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Not really, Axial's point was that once you kill the BBEG, his/her structures collapse entirely and nobody will dare to climb back into the spot.
Which is exactly what didn't happen when Saddam, Qaddafi and Taliban were 'defeated'. Sure, there was chaos and turmoil, there always is. But ultimately, we found out that elimination of single authoritarian leader does not instantly generate peace, democracy and happiness.
And frankly, all the recent experiences make a strong case for being in favor of keeping Abrogail II on the throne instead of risking a devil-ridden civil war wasteland.
If Abby dies, then it is doubtful the contract with hell is kept up and all help is withdrawn.
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If Abby dies, then it is doubtful the contract with hell is kept up and all help is withdrawn.
The contract is with her family. Breaking the Thrune contract with Hell requires wiping out the Thrune family, either by killing them or by persuading them to renounce their heritage.
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Yeah, how do you think I came to power. A tragic accident, that's how. And boy, do I miss my uncle, whatever his name was.
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Of course the best thing about RPGs is that one doesn't have to deal with pesky real-life stuff like a country imploding after you axe the queen. 'Great adventure and we got revenge! What are we doign next?"
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Oh, I'm sorry, are we moving over here now.
I'm aware of the recent wars in the Middle East and their outcomes, but I'm not talking about changing the fundamental culture of Cheliax down to the individual level. I'm trying to argue that with enough heroism, persistence, and...well, brutality, the PCs can wrest Cheliax away from the devil-worshippers that control it. House Thrune and the Church of Asmodeus can only take enough vicious body blows before they either collapse or are forced to surrender. And seeing as how most published material about Cheliax points out that the average citizen only gives lip service to Thrune and Asmodeus, it's safe to say that "the street" would be more or less supportive of what the PCs are doing.
Perhaps more attention should have been done for those who want to have a go at overthrowing Thrune and doing an Ultimate Campaign deal(Grognards might remember the old AD&D Battlesystem for army vs. army. Granted CoT was done before UCam) Granted many APs end when the last dice roll is done but a Kingmaker style book for after say an Andorian/Thrune fight would be nifty.