Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

Jack of Dust wrote:

Will we only see Weapon Style Feats for weapons that are already commonly used by PCs or will we also see them for weapons that are currently seldom used due to currently inferior stats? (light and heavy pick, certain throwing weapons, quarterstaff, etc)

Weapon Style Feats are like normal style feats, but tin stead of having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, they have Weapon Focus with a specific chosen weapon (and sometimes other things). When you take them, you can use them anytime you are using the style, have the chosen weapon with Weapon Focus, and meet the circumstances of the feat.

Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well.

None of which should be confused for advanced weapon training, weapon mastery feats, or weapon tricks, all of which are their own separate systems in the book.

"Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well."

So, for example if I have a weapon style that I can use with a glaive-guissarm I can use the same style with a spear, a halberd etc but not a long sword?

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Jack of Dust wrote:

Will we only see Weapon Style Feats for weapons that are already commonly used by PCs or will we also see them for weapons that are currently seldom used due to currently inferior stats? (light and heavy pick, certain throwing weapons, quarterstaff, etc)

Weapon Style Feats are like normal style feats, but tin stead of having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, they have Weapon Focus with a specific chosen weapon (and sometimes other things). When you take them, you can use them anytime you are using the style, have the chosen weapon with Weapon Focus, and meet the circumstances of the feat.

Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well.

None of which should be confused for advanced weapon training, weapon mastery feats, or weapon tricks, all of which are their own separate systems in the book.

"Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well."

So, for example if I have a weapon style that I can use with a glaive-guissarm I can use the same style with a spear, a halberd etc but not a long sword?

THat should be mandatory, IMHO, being locked to one weapon is a bad bad thing.

....(for example, being the first Player Companion I've developed without a single spell in it, despite offering up ways to fly and teleport).

Sounds a bit like "The Book of Nine Swords" , not in any bad way, that is just how I am relating to what feel like "Martial Powers". Are these powers extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like? And from a how would a they be manifested? ( this is a bad example - The dwarf hammers the ground so hard that he catapults himself into flight)

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Weapon Style Feats are like normal style feats, but tin stead of having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, they have Weapon Focus with a specific chosen weapon (and sometimes other things). When you take them, you can use them anytime you are using the style, have the chosen weapon with Weapon Focus, and meet the circumstances of the feat.

Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well.

None of which should be confused for advanced weapon training, weapon mastery feats, or weapon tricks, all of which are their own separate systems in the book.

"There is no part of that post that I didn't like."

Seconded.

Weapon Style Feats are like normal style feats, but tin stead of having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, they have Weapon Focus with a specific chosen weapon (and sometimes other things). When you take them, you can use them anytime you are using the style, have the chosen weapon with Weapon Focus, and meet the circumstances of the feat.

Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well.

None of which should be confused for advanced weapon training, weapon mastery feats, or weapon tricks, all of which are their own separate systems in the book.

Can you use Weapon Style Feats and Unarmed Style Feats at the same time, or do they both take up the active style stance. Can a Master of Many Styles monk use weapon styles as well as Unarmed Styles?

djones wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Jack of Dust wrote:

Will we only see Weapon Style Feats for weapons that are already commonly used by PCs or will we also see them for weapons that are currently seldom used due to currently inferior stats? (light and heavy pick, certain throwing weapons, quarterstaff, etc)

Weapon Style Feats are like normal style feats, but tin stead of having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, they have Weapon Focus with a specific chosen weapon (and sometimes other things). When you take them, you can use them anytime you are using the style, have the chosen weapon with Weapon Focus, and meet the circumstances of the feat.

Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well.

None of which should be confused for advanced weapon training, weapon mastery feats, or weapon tricks, all of which are their own separate systems in the book.

"Though there's additional flexibility to what weapons you can use it with if you have the appropriate weapon training category, as well."

So, for example if I have a weapon style that I can use with a glaive-guissarm I can use the same style with a spear, a halberd etc but not a long sword?

THat should be mandatory, IMHO, being locked to one weapon is a bad bad thing.

I fervently disagree. Anything that makes 20/2 or 20/3 weapons more attractive is amazing from my point of view.

Morning Star is already one of my favorite weapons and it is only 20/x2. If it can get more flexibility out of style feats, I'll be thrilled.

So, for example if I have a weapon style that I can use with a glaive-guissarm I can use the same style with a spear, a halberd etc but not a long sword?

If you have a weapon style you have selected the glaive-guissarm to use with,

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

....(for example, being the first Player Companion I've developed without a single spell in it, despite offering up ways to fly and teleport).

Sounds a bit like "The Book of Nine Swords" , not in any bad way, that is just how I am relating to what feel like "Martial Powers". Are these powers extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like? And from a how would a they be manifested? ( this is a bad example - The dwarf hammers the ground so hard that he catapults himself into flight)

There is nothing like the Book of Nine Swords powers in this book. There are feats and alternate class features that do (imho) some new and interesting things, but they all operate off the same framework feats and alternate class features always have.

Can you use Weapon Style Feats and Unarmed Style Feats at the same time, or do they both take up the active style stance. Can a Master of Many Styles monk use weapon styles as well as Unarmed Styles?

Weapon style feats are treated as style feats for that purpose (though we also played with multiple-style options a bit in this book).

Anything that makes the less optimized weapons more viable is good from my point of view. There are so many weapon types available that never seem to get used because they just can't compete with other options. I would love to see some mechanics that made things like spears and maces more appealing.

Imbicatus wrote:

Can you use Weapon Style Feats and Unarmed Style Feats at the same time, or do they both take up the active style stance. Can a Master of Many Styles monk use weapon styles as well as Unarmed Styles?

Weapon style feats are treated as style feats for that purpose (though we also played with multiple-style options a bit in this book).

GET

OUT

I often play classes and use weapons that are perceived as weak, simply for the image they project. Weapon styles that actually give some of those choices more zip is just gravy for me.

Anything that makes the less optimized weapons more viable is good from my point of view. There are so many weapon types available that never seem to get used because they just can't compete with other options. I would love to see some mechanics that made things like spears and maces more appealing.

I love playing around with the "weaker" options. Clubs are awesome. They are cheap, melee, ranged, and feats that apply to other weapon feats also apply to them. I also am a fan of slings. Again, cheap and ammo is plentiful in most settings. I've found that the difference in damage between weapons isn't significant enough for me to ignore having fun by playing something different.

This sounds super cool, anything that would make my Tekko-Kagi focused Brawler even more awesome is good in my book.

djones wrote:

So, for example if I have a weapon style that I can use with a glaive-guissarm I can use the same style with a spear, a halberd etc but not a long sword?

If you have a weapon style you have selected the glaive-guissarm to use with,

AND
you have weapon training with the Polearm weapon group,
THEN
in addition to the glaive-guissarm, you can use the weapon style with the bardiche, bec de corbin, bill, crook, glaive, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance, lucerne hammer, mancatcher, monk's spade, naginata, nodachi, ranseur, rhomphaia, tepoztopilli, and tiger fork.

Excellent.

This sounds super cool, anything that would make my Tekko-Kagi focused Brawler even more awesome is good in my book.

OMG YES

I have been OBSESSED with idea lately. :D

A good defense is a better offense
Are there any classes, traits or feats that loose some armor proficiencies to become better with weapons.

Hoping for firearm support. I still want a gunslinger that can fight like a John Woo character, or an extreme trick/utility shooter (like the toxophilite ranger).

This isn't a fighter-only book, since lots of characters can focus on weapon use. But it is very much a new-ways-to-fight magic and keeps tightly linked to combatant options (for example, being the first Player Companion I've developed without a single spell in it, despite offering up ways to fly and teleport).

I came into this thread to make a mildly bitter quip about how "excited" I am for all the Magus options we can expect in this book. A zero spells guarantee makes this martially inclined lady very, very happy.

I came into this thread to make a mildly bitter quip about how "excited" I am for all the Magus options we can expect in this book. A zero spells guarantee makes this martially inclined lady very, very happy.

*Zero spells.

And other stuff, of course.

Wait, I thought you said this was not like the "Book of Nine Swords" flying by being that good with a sword sounds like what I thought of with that book. Then again its been years since I read it.

Wait, I thought you said this was not like the "Book of Nine Swords" flying by being that good with a sword sounds like what I thought of with that book. Then again its been years since I read it.

It is nothing like Book of Nine Swords.

:D

Wait, so you can actually print something that pleases the "martials can't get nice things" folks while not blowing up the "GET YER WEABOO ANIME STUFF OUT OF MY PRISTINE MEDIEVAL FANTASY WHERE FIGHTERS FIGHT AND MAGES MAGE!!!!" crowd? Colour me intrigued.

...

*Tons of feats anyone martially-focused can take, some of which give bonuses to characters with weapon training and some of which skip[ a prerequisite if you have weapon training
*Advanced weapon training, new options you can only gain by giving up new groups of weapon training (while still increasing your bonus for previously selected weapon training groups)
...

Even without new spells, this looks like a great book for those of us who are fans of the Myrmidarch. And it looks like VMC Fighter is getting upgraded as an option.

Wait, so you can actually print something that pleases the "martials can't get nice things" folks while not blowing up the "GET YER WEABOO ANIME STUFF OUT OF MY PRISTINE MEDIEVAL FANTASY WHERE FIGHTERS FIGHT AND MAGES MAGE!!!!" crowd? Colour me intrigued.

That was certainly part of the design goal I had, yes.

Sounds neat! Hopefully this'll be a great Player Companion. :D

Please don't fail me!

Everyone, raise your arms to the sky to let me collect your spirit energy.

Please don't fail me!

Everyone, raise your arms to the sky to let me collect your spirit energy.

Everyone put your hands down! In the name of martial-caster disparity I am commandeering that spirit energy!

Human Fighter wrote:

Please don't fail me!

Everyone, raise your arms to the sky to let me collect your spirit energy.

Everyone put your hands down! In the name of martial-caster disparity I am commandeering that spirit energy!

Now now. None of that.

*a single tear flows down and lands on a half-finished, never-done manuscript*

Welp, eating Owen's wake, as usual.

Looking forward to seeing this. And by seeing, I mean "playing with it like a new set of Legos."

Elf wizard, I hate you so much. Why can't I finally have something nice? Just think of this as an investment opportunity for when you dominate me in the future, and you make me kill my friends. Let's join forces, just this once... Please?

To my shame I have branched off to swashbuckler and slayer since acg. Out of the swashbuckler archetypes, is there anything that doesn't mess with using a buckler and focusing on a melee weapon?

Will there be a slayer archetype?

Will there be anything similar to crane style?

I'm probably asking too much.

The swashbuckler archetype uses a buckler but is pretty specific (which is appropriate for the in-campaign-world Player Companion books), but there are lots of non-archetype options to help master a weapon without sacrificing your buckler.

No slayer archetype. Lots of non-archetype things slayers may find useful. (There are only 4 archetypes ion the book, since an archetype helps one class, and everyone can want to master weapons.)

There's nothing similar to crane style. For the most part (and I admit there are exceptions) if the hardback rulebooks, and their errata and faqs, have decided how to handle an idea I'm not gong to try to introduce a new way to handle the same idea. I'd rather explore new ideas.

I am already starting to make room in my various martial builds.

May I ask one simple question. Do any of the styles help the Dirty Trick maneuver or offer a new way of debuffing your opponents? Yes I realize a book came out with the sole focus on fighting dirty(already own it)...but I'd never say no to more methods of less than honorable fighting techniques or debuffs.

Dirty Trick shows up a few times, but for the very reason you mention it was rarely the focus of any design push.

There are some other options allowing a character to apply conditions or penalties to foes, though I'm not sure they raise to the level of a rebuffing build, they do offer some new options in combat.

I get put down for just wanting to some guy who lives in a world of crazy when I'm playing a fantasy game. Human fighter forever! I'm really hoping this book is the answer to my prayers, and for the fighter to finally ascend!

For those of you that get this book early somehow, beware of my wrath until I too can read it!

No slayer archetype. Lots of non-archetype things slayers may find useful. (There are only 4 archetypes ion the book, since an archetype helps one class, and everyone can want to master weapons.)

Very much understood, an archetype only supports one theme for one class to where feats are accessible to all. But archetypes allow you to select theme that removes a feature you are not going to use "heavy armor prof" in exchange for something that fits the theme of the character you wish to make "mobility".

My only issue with the "feat-currency" it that we only get so many feats, fighters, warpriest and other classes that gets feats from class features will excel with this book. For that I ask what might be other non-feat options in this book, such as traits, uses for skills or combat options/maneuvers "like when steal came out in the APG".

My only issue with the "feat-currency" it that we only get so many feats, fighters, warpriest and other classes that gets feats from class features will excel with this book. For that I ask what might be other non-feat options in this book, such as traits, uses for skills or combat options/maneuvers "like when steal came out in the APG".

We do have a set of traits, tied to specific traditions of weapon training throughout the Inner Sea. And there are magic weapons, which can be bought by characters who find them a good thematic match.

New uses for skills are rare, and we didn't do any in this book. Similarly I doubt we'll ever add new combat maneuvers in a Player Companion - that's more the kind of thing we're likely to cover in a hardback rulebook.

The other non-feat option that gets a bit of space is Advanced Weapon training, but that's still mostly a fighter option (since it requires weapon training class feature).

Any sword and board love in the book?

The other non-feat option that gets a bit of space is Advanced Weapon training, but that's still mostly a fighter option (since it requires weapon training class feature).

And sohei monk, I suppose.

Does swashbuckler weapon training count as weapon training for the purpose of meeting prerequisites of the feats that can be bypassed with weapon training?

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

The other non-feat option that gets a bit of space is Advanced Weapon training, but that's still mostly a fighter option (since it requires weapon training class feature).

And sohei monk, I suppose.

And Myrmidarch, and anyone else who gets multiple picks of the fighter weapon training class feature, but *mostly* fighters.

Does swashbuckler weapon training count as weapon training for the purpose of meeting prerequisites of the feats that can be bypassed with weapon training?

They aren't feats in this case, they are literally alternate options for weapon training. Swashbuckler weapon training doesn't work the same way, and thus doesn't work with these options.

Any sword and board love in the book?

Some. It's not the main focus, but we have weapon tricks for sword-and-board fighting combinations.

Myrmidarch, Weapon Training(rouge talent),Variant Multiclassing, other archetypes ect. allow access to the weapon training feature. Will there be a feat or feat tree in the book to allow access to weapon training.

Weapon Training(rouge talent) ... allow access to the weapon training feature.

The weapon training rogue talent doesn't give weapon training, it only gives weapon focus as a bonus feat. If it did give weapon training, rogues would be MUCH better.

Myrmidarch, Weapon Training(rouge talent),Variant Multiclassing, other archetypes ect. allow access to the weapon training feature. Will there be a feat or feat tree in the book to allow access to weapon training.

You mean to allow any character of any class to gain the weapon training class feature? No. It's a fighter class feature we occasionally use in archetypes as a specific design choice, not something we're going to open up to everyone.

And rogue weapon training just gives you the Weapon Focus feat, not the weapon training class feature. It's actually pretty rare for non-fighters to gain access to the weapon training class feature.

So there'll only be one archetype for the fighter? Paladin and ranger are such jerks that they need to get involved too!?

The swashbuckler archetype isn't going to be goofy with a gun or something, right?

If I understand things correctly, weapon focus will no longer be a trap feat for the most part, but will instead lead to better and brighter things, especially for the fighter? Maybe a feat that gets better if you get weapon focus, specialization and the greater versions over time?

If I understand things correctly, weapon focus will no longer be a trap feat for the most part, but will instead lead to better and brighter things, especially for the fighter? Maybe a feat that gets better if you get weapon focus, specialization and the greater versions over time?

... I'm not entirely sure if this is serious or not. Weapon Focus might not be the most glamorous feat under the sun, but a trap? Its a flat bonus to hit; numeric benefits are NEVER bad.

Yeah, Weapon Focus is never a trap. It's boring, but it's always going to be helping your character. A trap option is one that looks good, but actually weakens your character by taking it, such as the Powerful Sneak rogue talent.

So there'll only be one archetype for the fighter? Paladin and ranger are such jerks that they need to get involved too!?

Paladins and rangers have specific weapon builds, so they make sense as archetypes for this book. Fighters also get one, but fighters have lots of other cool options beyond an archetype.

The swashbuckler archetype isn't going to be goofy with a gun or something, right?

It's a way to build a specific in-world combatant that makes sense for swashbucklers, that the class doesn't normally do well. No guns.

If I understand things correctly, weapon focus will no longer be a trap feat for the most part, but will instead lead to better and brighter things, especially for the fighter? Maybe a feat that gets better if you get weapon focus, specialization and the greater versions over time?

While Weapon Focus is a gateway to several of the feats (though there are also lots of feats without it), those are ALL designed to give you new options in combat, rather than just tack on bigger attack and damage numbers. They aren't built on Weapon Specialization or greater versions of any of that chain, but on doing new and interesting things with a weapon you have Focused with.