Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.
Wow I totally missed that on my first read through...
Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.
!? Now I'm curious...
This looks fantastic!
There's a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as Lawful Neutral for mechanical purposes because of the history he has with the city.Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.!? Now I'm curious...
"It says here you're a Paladin of... Asmodeus's, Lord of Darkness and Prince of Hell?"
"Yeah, he's a real stand-up guy."
Assistant Developer
|
| 16 people marked this as a favorite. |
There's a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as Lawful Neutral for mechanical purposes because of the history he has with the city.Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.!? Now I'm curious..."It says here you're a Paladin of... Asmodeus's, Lord of Darkness and Prince of Hell?"
"Yeah, he's a real stand-up guy."
90% of your job involves apologizing
There's a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as Lawful Neutral for mechanical purposes because of the history he has with the city.Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.!? Now I'm curious...
Which city is that for? Dhucharg or Radripal?
Either way, I assume that this trait is NOT open to Chelish characters, right?
That is an interesting surprise. Still -- whether or not other natives of Holomog can take that trait, it would seem that people of other nations are definitely excluded. I am really looking forward to reading the details behind this trait in a couple of weeks.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Segada purchased these metal machines from the city-state of Three Craters in the Land of Northern Lakes far to the east—a mostly-barren landscape pitted with crater lakes, strange geological formations, and specks of monster-infested forests where the residents dig into the earth to mine precious metals, highly pure iron, and skymetals.
90% of your job involves apologizingThere's a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as Lawful Neutral for mechanical purposes because of the history he has with the city.Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.!? Now I'm curious..."It says here you're a Paladin of... Asmodeus's, Lord of Darkness and Prince of Hell?"
"Yeah, he's a real stand-up guy."
...But you seriously CAN become a paladin of Asmodeus?
As far as I can tell, he still has no Paladin code.
...But you seriously CAN become a paladin of Asmodeus?90% of your job involves apologizingThere's a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as Lawful Neutral for mechanical purposes because of the history he has with the city.Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.!? Now I'm curious..."It says here you're a Paladin of... Asmodeus's, Lord of Darkness and Prince of Hell?"
"Yeah, he's a real stand-up guy."
As far as I can tell, he still has no Paladin code.
Neither do LG demigods.
|
As far as I can tell, he still has no Paladin code.Neither do LG demigods.
Or any other LG god they haven't got around to making a specific code for, such as the Dragon Empires gods Tsukiyo and Shizuru.
On the one hand, it might be technically possible (and Asmodeus, god of contracts, *thrives* on those sorts of technicalities, literally being the devil in the details), and would fit the theme of Asmodeus (if not the theme of Paladins!) perfectly.
On the other hand, James Jacobs is the 'god' of this setting and wasn't a big fan of the idea the first time it appeared, so probably not.
Just noticed, but what are the starting/other languages of the Ganzi? I don't see it anywhere listed. <o>
Even if you do make a Paladin of Asmodeus, it would probably really hard to stay as one, either because of falling or because of the god revoking his favor.
|
|
I dunno, it seems to me like having paladins would be the sort of thing that would give Asmodeus access to all *sorts* of technicalities, so he might be willing to give them a *lot* of leeway. Since he isn't the sort of guy to brute force himself into things, but to come up with twists, paladins might be a sweet ace in the hole.
With the creative director saying No they don't exist, and only certain LN gods actually being said as having paladins, i'm just going to say that i expect that to NOT be the case.
In the case of Holomog, it might be that paladins are drawing power from the Pact itself, not Asmodeus. In which case there code wouldn't necessitate following the edicts of Asmodeus and his clergy.
Granted I still have no idea how the afterlife of said paladin would work out...
Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Aelyosos things I liked:
** spoiler omitted **
Still compiling so I will have a complete list of questions later. :)
I'm glad you appreciate my take on it.
Dhuraxilis was my other proposal for the Iblydan city in Distant Shores, though we decided to go with the option that is more representative of Iblydos (totally the right choice). As you might guess, I have a head start on whatever gazetteer we might write for it in the future. Just as Aelyosos began with the concept of a coastal city suffering massive tidal fluctuation, Dhuraxilis began with the idea of a holiday a bit like Carnival but with a bunch of "classical" monsters invited to the party. It then spun into even more possibilities, including a really cool mystery cult that Wes and I cooked up.
Argh, why isn't the PDF available for purchase yet?!?!
Only a week to go....
** spoiler omitted **...
I... can't believe that didn't occur to me. I got so focused on the relationship that I totally forgot about feats based on the symbol. :-O
Oh well—clearly more design space to be explored in future products!
Is it me are all the cities all very lawful...
Cities tend to lean that way, unless there's something big to push them toward chaos.
Most chaotic folk don't tend to lump in with large groups, they tend to strike out on their own more.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
Surprised nobody's mentioned the "Totes can make a Paladin of Asmodeus" trait yet.
I'm a little surprised how often the paladins of Asmodeus question comes up, considering the concept is addressed in Inner Sea Gods on page 24.
Many soldiers and martially minded types welcome Asmodeus’s dogma of force and dominance. While his church has few organized groups of soldiers, monastic orders or mercenary companies aligned with Hell are not that unusual. Among such militaristic servants of Asmodeus are those who extol him as a paragon of law and enforcer of order. With the encouragement of the church, many go so far as to call themselves “paladins,” relying on the reputations of virtuous crusaders to gain acceptance among commoners and those of modest faith. Although such armed propagandists lack the holy powers of true paladins, many supplement their strength of arms with magic items that allow them to perform miraculous feats. Most go out of their way to perform heroic deeds for communities in need—or to manufacture then thwart tribulations for those not in imminent need. Thus Asmodeus’s servants hope to undermine the common knowledge of their god’s evil, opening the minds and hearts of everyday people to the belief that Asmodeus has been judged too harshly, and that perhaps peace is worth harsh laws and rigid order. Once even a few entertain the previously unthinkable possibility of living alongside worshipers of the Prince of Darkness, the insidious seed of Asmodeus’s faith has taken root.
That's pretty much the end-all, be-all word on paladins of Asmodeus in Pathfinder canon.
Now, if you in your personal game want to play with that concept, go for it–certainly no one here's interested in interrupting your fun—just make sure you and your GM are on the same page first. :)
As for the pact servant trait, that's largely meant to be a flavor thing for Holomog. By the strictest readings of the Core Rules, there are not a lot of stipulations on who your paladin's divine backer has to be. For the Pathfinder world, though, the vast, vast, vast majority of the time we cleave to the Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities. If you want to play faster and looser with that in your game and your GM buys off on it, go for it, but for us, that's our rule and how we play it in our printed products.
For my piece—and you'll find few more pro-Asmodeus backers—I doubt that even the Archfiend can honestly trick someone of true paladin stock into worshiping him, one of the most unabashedly evil beings in the multiverse. Even if he could, he probably can't grant them a true paladin's abilities. Asmodeus IS all about confounding folks, though. (So, if you find yourself confounded by any of this: good.) :P
In any case, we're certainly not going to be presenting paladins who worship Asmodeus in official Pathfinder products.
The pact servant trait dances in a gray idea that's unique to the situation in Holomog. If you want to play in that space with your divine spell casters, enjoy—the background there affords you that rare opportunity. If that unsettles you and you want to say the divine power from that ability in fact comes from some mysterious empyreal lord patron who's backing some ancient bargain tied into the pact, that's a neat idea too and could make for even more interesting stories.
Ultimately, play with it however you like, but don't view this as some new change in stance on our view of paladins of Asmodeus as anything but shysters.
** spoiler omitted **Aelyosos things I liked:
** spoiler omitted **
Still compiling so I will have a complete list of questions later. :)
Now if I can just find a way to pick your brain for what your plans are.
|
Assistant Developer
|
| 11 people marked this as a favorite. |
Re: Paladins of Asmodeus - That was never the intention of the trait, which was more intended to open up Asmodeus worship to neutral and even good-leaning Clerics and Inquisitors in Holomog (and only in Holomog). Being a paladin is a whole different thing above and beyond alignment in Golarion, and while it's a fun concept for a home game it is not something that can happen officially in the game world. The Wily Linguist aspect is an advocate, negotiator, archivist, and lawyer, not a warrior.
Asmodeus wouldn't be behind anyone going around fighting evil on his behalf, and certainly would be giving them stuff expressly to be used for that purpose.
Please, feel free to explore this kind of idea in your home game, but there's ultimately nothing stopping you from doing that in home games already. Don't be disappointed if this trait is not available in organized play.
|
Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **Aelyosos things I liked:
** spoiler omitted **
Still compiling so I will have a complete list of questions later. :)
I will simply say that I had a lot of fun seeding adventure ideas into this gazetteer for all levels of play. Some of these are ones I'd love to expand upon in future publications one day. For others I don't have any extent plans, yet every mystery is another opportunity for enterprising GMs to spin their own explanations and adventures.
And the great thing about the messageboards is that our fans sometimes suggest possibilities that are even better than the original ideas!
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **Aelyosos things I liked:
** spoiler omitted **
Still compiling so I will have a complete list of questions later. :)
Sounds like it is time to restart a Iblydos thread in the campaign setting thread.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You're referring to the physical layout of the city. I believe that Orthos was referring to the general moral/ethical alignment of the city, and not to if the streets were properly aligned. :)
Contributor
|
Finally read my copy. I'll have to digest it for a while before I have any specific commentary on it, but I loved every second of it.
Huge fan of the new Mythic content! I especially liked how it was set into the world - a good contrast to my experience with Wrath of the Righteous.
I do hope to be able to play an LG worshiper of Asmodeus in Society, although I'd stay closer to (what I believe is) the intended purpose - a Diplomacy-heavy librarian/negotiator type. (Might be a good time to use my aasimar boon, in fact.)
You're referring to the physical layout of the city. I believe that Orthos was referring to the general moral/ethical alignment of the city, and not to if the streets were properly aligned. :)
This is correct. People gathered in large groups tend to be people who think in similar ways, behave in similar ways, and go with the flow. IE, Lawful people.
Chaotic people - more prone to forging their own path, doing things their own way, not following the crowd - are generally not as much drawn to large concentrations of people, where they will be expected to "play by the rules" and "go along to get along", and thus would be less likely to congregate in a single location in large numbers.
As a result, cities by their very nature tend toward being more Lawful-aligned, while smaller communities and more nomadic cultures lean toward Chaos more frequently.
(There are, of course, exceptions. I'm an extremely Lawful person but I can't stand cities, I can't take being that close to other humans and not having some elbow room.)
I'm less meaning their purpose of origin and more the results of having that many people living closely together and cooperating on a daily basis. Eventually, under most circumstances, they'd all sort of congeal together into a unified pattern of behavior and thought, barring outliers.
Anyone here familiar with the comic character Spawn? The super condensed explanation is that he's a super hero that works for the Devil. See, the Devil wants Spawn to fight and (in this case) kill bad guys because then their souls go to Hell and become soldiers in the Devils army.
That's the pitch I'm gonna go with if I try to play a paladin of Asmodeus in a home game anyway. :)
You're referring to the physical layout of the city. I believe that Orthos was referring to the general moral/ethical alignment of the city, and not to if the streets were properly aligned. :)This is correct. People gathered in large groups tend to be people who think in similar ways, behave in similar ways, and go with the flow. IE, Lawful people.
Chaotic people - more prone to forging their own path, doing things their own way, not following the crowd - are generally not as much drawn to large concentrations of people, where they will be expected to "play by the rules" and "go along to get along", and thus would be less likely to congregate in a single location in large numbers.
As a result, cities by their very nature tend toward being more Lawful-aligned, while smaller communities and more nomadic cultures lean toward Chaos more frequently.
(There are, of course, exceptions. I'm an extremely Lawful person but I can't stand cities, I can't take being that close to other humans and not having some elbow room.)
I disagree. I think in cities you are more likely to be chaotic because the large number of people. In smaller communities people tend to more traditional. And tend to be more united if no other reason than survival(well in a fantasy setting with wondering monsters). Small communities tend to care more what your neighbors are doing. And you are less likely to run into people who share whatever makes you different.
In cities you tend to not have too be that way. Also if the city is a trade hub as most cities in this book you are constantly meeting outsiders and being exposed to new ideas.
I think you are not understanding the chaotic alignments very well.
|
Developer
|
We probably could have done a better job covering a more diverse range of alignments in the book's cities. We certainly made a point of ensuring the good/evil axis was covered.
While I don't think cities necessarily need to be more lawful than chaotic, it is important to remember that the goal of this book was to present settlements that were somewhat indicative of their respective regions. If they were outliers, existing beyond the scope of most other settlements in their nations, they wouldn't really meet that design goal.
Rest assured, there are chaotic-leaning settlements in all of the presented countries (except maybe in Kaoling), we just haven't detailed them yet.
|
|
For the Pathfinder world, though, the vast, vast, vast majority of the time we cleave to the Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities. If you want to play faster and looser with that in your game and your GM buys off on it, go for it, but for us, that's our rule and how we play it in our printed products.
Will paladins of lawful neutral and neutral good gods, like Abadar, Sarenrae and Shelyn remain an option?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you are not understanding the chaotic alignments very well.
I'm an extremely Lawful person
|
Developer
|
For the Pathfinder world, though, the vast, vast, vast majority of the time we cleave to the Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities. If you want to play faster and looser with that in your game and your GM buys off on it, go for it, but for us, that's our rule and how we play it in our printed products.Will paladins of lawful neutral and neutral good gods, like Abadar, Sarenrae and Shelyn remain an option?
Paladins of NG-adjacent deities are pretty well established in canon. And while you can be a paladin of Shelyn or Abadar, you still need to be LG to be a paladin, regardless of your deity's alignment.
Only have to wait until 3AM EST now...
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Only have to wait until 3AM EST now...
It's :D
HUZZAH!