Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Strategy Guide (OGL)

Whoo! a $30 book for my new players to chew on for most of thier questions instead of my $50 core rulebook! My core books will last so much longer now.

dot, doT, dOt, Dot, dOT, DoT, DOt, DOT

DOOTTT ! ! ! !

Hoping there's stuff on bringing themed monks up to snuff for Adventure Paths, particularly the unarmed gearless kind.

The main reason for this product is that I believe the Core Rulebook presents a number of barriers to entry into the game for many people, among them...

• It's a big, heavy book filled with a bazillion words, tables, and lists that appear daunting to newcomers.
  
• Really important rules, like how you level up your character, are split into multiple places, and much of it is easy to miss.
  
• It tells you how to make a character, but it doesn't help you figure out which of the many choices you can make are the ones you want to make.
  
• Options for *your* character class, like feats and spells, have to be extracted from dense chapters that also cover options that your character can't actually use.

This book is intended to solve those problems, and I believe that it will bring many more players to the table.

goldomark wrote:

160 pages? Seems pretty small.

I really, really wanted it to be 100 pages, but we just couldn't accomplish everything we needed in that space.

It'll be interesting to see what the designers think is good character design, at the very least. I don't need such a thing personally, but since I help run the welcome wagon for the local Pathfinder Society play, I might look into getting a copy anyway to help out the newbies - if the advice is worth the paper its printed on, at any rate.

Vic Wertz wrote:

The main reason for this product is that I believe the Core Rulebook presents a number of barriers to entry into the game for many people, among them...

• It's a big, heavy book filled with a bazillion words, tables, and lists that appear daunting to newcomers.
  
• Really important rules, like how you level up your character, are split into multiple places, and much of it is easy to miss.
  
• It tells you how to make a character, but it doesn't help you figure out which of the many choices you can make are the ones you want to make.
  
• Options for *your* character class, like feats and spells, have to be extracted from dense chapters that also cover options that your character can't actually use.

This book is intended to solve those problems, and I believe that it will bring many more players to the table.

goldomark wrote:

160 pages? Seems pretty small.

I really, really wanted it to be 100 pages, but we just couldn't accomplish everything we needed in that space.

It'll be interesting to see what the designers think is good character design, at the very least. I don't need such a thing personally, but since I help run the welcome wagon for the local Pathfinder Society play, I might look into getting a copy anyway to help out the newbies - if the advice is worth the paper its printed on, at any rate.

They have already repeatedly stated that this will not be an optimization guide.

My interpretation of what they have said this book will be is that this is a book to help people new to the system navigate the Core rulebook.

Really, Really can't wait for this for my upcoming group...

(8 entirely new players to TTRPGs. 1 of which has been so sheltered she hasn't even heard of anything like this before.)

Really, Really can't wait for this for my upcoming group...

(8 entirely new players to TTRPGs. 1 of which has been so sheltered she hasn't even heard of anything like this before.)

that poor child...:(

Renegade Paladin wrote:

It'll be interesting to see what the designers think is good character design, at the very least. I don't need such a thing personally, but since I help run the welcome wagon for the local Pathfinder Society play, I might look into getting a copy anyway to help out the newbies - if the advice is worth the paper its printed on, at any rate.

They have already repeatedly stated that this will not be an optimization guide.

My interpretation of what they have said this book will be is that this is a book to help people new to the system navigate the Core rulebook.

Seems likely. The thing I find is that Society adventures tend to be pretty brutal, actually, and some basic optimization is basically required to succeed. I'm not talking the heights of Practical Optimization, but things like "if you're two handing a greatsword, take Power Attack," for instance. My second level Society character has had to go on adventures with third and fourth level characters before, and I carried the Glass River Rescue on my back using a paladin with a greatsword, Power Attack, and Cleave because most of the other players frankly didn't even make a solid build, much less an optimized one. :p

But the fact that Ultimate Magic expresses the opinion that magic missile is the best first-level spell in the game doesn't give me a lot of hope.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Really, Really can't wait for this for my upcoming group...

(8 entirely new players to TTRPGs. 1 of which has been so sheltered she hasn't even heard of anything like this before.)

that poor child...:(

She was raised by her mother who was a Doctor and traveled to remote villages to treat places. She can speak 5 languages fluently and can speak enough of 30 others to get by on her own. She has experienced numerous ways of life.

I, honestly, am a bit jealous of her. She as seen somethings most of us wouldn't believe. & at the very least it is funny seeing her deal with things most people take for granted.

Ok,well played good sir...well played.

Really, Really can't wait for this for my upcoming group...

(8 entirely new players to TTRPGs. 1 of which has been so sheltered she hasn't even heard of anything like this before.)

I dunno that it's THAT sheltered. This is a VERY niche hobby. I've me more than a few people who assume that Dungeons & Dragons is a video game.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Really, Really can't wait for this for my upcoming group...

(8 entirely new players to TTRPGs. 1 of which has been so sheltered she hasn't even heard of anything like this before.)

I dunno that it's THAT sheltered. This is a VERY niche hobby. I've me more than a few people who assume that Dungeons & Dragons is a video game.

She barely knew what a T.V. was, didn't know what a video game was and still doesn't completely understand them, and she had only ever used a Computer to type up a paper and play Solitaire. Her typing gives a whole new meaning to hunt and peck.

Though she can get into this hobby's concept easily thanks to games played in the Villages. Think of the Manga Vinland Saga where the kids are playing war.

I can understand why the sort of people who post on these threads are lukewarm to the idea of a strategy guide, but I have new players that are going to love this. The Core Rulebook is incredibly intimidating, as easy as it is to use when you already know everything in it.

So I'm very excited to see this coming out. Thanks, Paizo!

Cheers!
Landon

will this book have any new classes or archetypes (please add jaguar warrior!) thanks!

will this book have any new classes or archetypes (please add jaguar warrior!) thanks!

Nope. Product description clearly states that it's an "extensive look at the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook rules." Same as the NPC Codex, it's Core only.

The Advanced Class Guide is the new classes book.

Will this book offer any advice in the vein of magic item management, i.e. is a given spell better selected as a potion, scroll or wand? Thanks!

This will definitely be a welcome addition to all 4 of my campaigns.

Which is awesome if a new player has somebody like you to help them out. In my opinion, that is the best way to teach a new player the game. Unfortunately, we can't box great GMs and sell them to new players, so this book will be the next best thing. Think of it as that guy at your table that the rest of the players always ask questions when they are leveling their characters like "Which feat should I take?" "What new spell should I add?"

Many players don't have a great experienced GM to help them or a know-it-all fellow player. This book is meant to fill that gap.

-Lisa

This. I'm the guy everyone asks. In every group I play in. I know this will come across as negative, but that gets annoying. I'm buying this book.

It'll be interesting to see what the designers think is good character design, at the very least.

There are numerous, numerous examples of what the designers think is good character design. The short answer is that they don't whorship at the alter of DPR. Or really even throw a passing glance at it.

-Skeld

There's actually an audience for this kind of book? I have to say of all the products, this one looks to be the most lame of them all. I sense many will pass on this as there's nothing new in here to use for a game (like GM rules or Player crunch like feats, spells and such) and it looks like a book that can easily be replaced by talking amongst your gaming peers in real life or online.

Rather disappointed, let's hope the next RPG book after this is something worthwhile. Like "Advanced Player's Guide 2" or maybe "Ultimate Combat 2" or "Ultimate Magic 2"

There's actually an audience for this kind of book? I have to say of all the products, this one looks to be the most lame of them all. I sense many will pass on this as there's nothing new in here to use for a game (like GM rules or Player crunch like feats, spells and such) and it looks like a book that can easily be replaced by talking amongst your gaming peers in real life or online.

Rather disappointed, let's hope the next RPG book after this is something worthwhile. Like "Advanced Player's Guide 2" or maybe "Ultimate Combat 2" or "Ultimate Magic 2"

I know right? Who would've guessed that Paizo caters to more customers than just you! ;)

...let's hope the next RPG book after this is something worthwhile. Like "Advanced Player's Guide 2" or maybe "Ultimate Combat 2" or "Ultimate Magic 2"

Advanced Class Guide. Ten new classes. Whether or not that's worthwhile for you, only you can say, but it's been announced as the Gen Con '14 release.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Strategy Guide. It's not a book I'll use much myself, but I have a feeling it'll be very useful for a lot of gamers out there, certainly gamers new to this particular system.

Anyone else planning to use this as a sort off quick NPC Building Guide?

Anyone else planning to use this as a sort off quick NPC Building Guide?

Nope, thats what I have NPC Codex for.

I am already the group librarian, default GM, and 3pp collector. With the group all together we have multiple copies of every Paizo hardback, several different softcover books, and multiple 3pp books in hardback and softback.

Myself and another in all three games I play/run are encouraging every player we know to pick this up so that we do not have to give them every answer to every question every time.

Personally I will pick it up to see what the designers recommend, and see what I have missed that others have come up with.

Looking forward to it!

@Derfmancher: You misunderstood. I have found that while the NPC Codex works great for Random Encounters or bases for Unique NPCs they don't provide enough detail.

What I am hoping is that this book provides a sort of Checklist usable to expedite the Building Process for myself and the other GMs in my group.

@Derfmancher: You misunderstood. I have found that while the NPC Codex works great for Random Encounters or bases for Unique NPCs they don't provide enough detail.

What I am hoping is that this book provides a sort of Checklist usable to expedite the Building Process for myself and the other GMs in my group.

Y'know, I can imagine certain chapters of the book being applied in NPC building as you describe it.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

@Derfmancher: You misunderstood. I have found that while the NPC Codex works great for Random Encounters or bases for Unique NPCs they don't provide enough detail.

What I am hoping is that this book provides a sort of Checklist usable to expedite the Building Process for myself and the other GMs in my group.

Y'know, I can imagine certain chapters of the book being applied in NPC building as you describe it.

Hey I will take any help I can get since my group typically has most Humanoid Enemies as Races built via the ARG and ignore the Bestiary Versions for little more than inspiration or to use as Primal/Throwbacks for the ARG Race.

This means most of our Encounters are with NPCs not Monsters.

I wonder what the odds will be for making a second strategy guide that covers the APG/UC/UM classes as well as maybe some updated options for the base classes that incorporate those books.

I know it will have a lot to do with how well this one sells, which I'm hoping is like hotcakes. I just want to see basic guides for every class. We'll even need a third(or fourth, depending on how packed the second gets) for after they've released the Advanced Class Guide.

I dunno, I'm just getting a bit excited about this. I think it's because I've got a nephew who's steadily getting close to the age where I'll be able to put it to good use. It's still a good few years away, since he's only just turned 4, but the more I get for the system, the easier it will be to get him started as he gets older.

The sole necessity of this product strikes me as result of the Core Rulebook's poor organization and Ivory Tower Design.

Or simply a lot of New Players aren't used to this type of game.

Or simply a lot of New Players aren't used to this type of game.

I've noticed a lot of new player and new GM threads lately.

-Skeld

Not everyone wants to spend hours building up some high level of system mastery. A lot of people would rather just jump in and play while figuring things out as they go. That's how most of the people I've played with have done it, it's how I did it, and I really doubt that it's an uncommon occurrence.

Plus, there are people who prefer to play one type of character who may want to play another type. Say, going from caster to martial. they might know casters like the back of their hand, but have no clue about how to build an even remotely effective martial. I have enough system mastery to make me useful up until about level 5 in most classes before I start losing direction, but some classes(druid and bard, namely) I have no clue where to go from the start. And I've been playing D&D off and on since around 2002. I've just never bothered to play those classes before.

Maybe that's a result of the Ivory Tower, but that's just the way I see the game. Every game with a lot of options has a learning curve, and guides like this will always have a place for people who just want to jump in and try something without hours of studying.

Or in my case Martial to Caster. I still have a hard time building Casters the way I want.

Then again that might be because of my Dislike of Vancian Casting.

This looks awesome!

Or in my case Martial to Caster. I still have a hard time building Casters the way I want.

Then again that might be because of my Dislike of Vancian Casting.

See, I'm a bit of both. I can build a martial that's just good at beating faces with a stick, like a fighter or barbarian. You pick what weapon you want to hit people with, and you build up your ability to hit them with it. Pretty simple. But what about a monk? I've got little idea on how to make a monk effective. And I suck at understanding how to use combat maneuvers to their full effect, which makes building a monk a bit harder I think. Paladins and rangers I can do decently, but I never really know how to handle their casting to make good use of it.

And then with casters, I can build a blaster pretty easily, but battlefield control is not my thing beyond the first couple spell levels. Beyond color spray, grease, glitterdust, and the pit spells I've got no idea what makes for good battlefield control. And then druids, in general, just confuse the crap out of me for some reason. Bards do too, but to a lesser extent.

Mine I can do the Warmage (Light Control but mainly Blasting and Buffing) but I can handle the Martials well. Really I do best with Martials and Half-Casters (Magus, Inquisitor, Bard, and Alchemist*)

*: Technically the Alchemist, Paladin, and Ranger are Psuedo-Casters as they have no 0 Level Spells.

Magus is another class that I don't fully understand, right along with druids. Spellstrike and Spell Combat are what get me, I think. I'm sure I could figure it out if I needed to, but I've just never spent the time trying because it's never come up for me.

Which is why I'm hoping that this sells well and we see future guides like this for APG/UC/UM.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Or simply a lot of New Players aren't used to this type of game.

I've noticed a lot of new player and new GM threads lately.

-Skeld

Perhaps that's showing the Beginner Box is a success?

So you start with that, think "This is great, what's next?", and have the core rule book dropped in front of you. That's a huge step up. The Strategy Guide seems to me to be the next logical step in bringing new players.

Skeld wrote:

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Or simply a lot of New Players aren't used to this type of game.

I've noticed a lot of new player and new GM threads lately.

-Skeld

Perhaps that's showing the Beginner Box is a success?

So you start with that, think "This is great, what's next?", and have the core rule book dropped in front of you. That's a huge step up. The Strategy Guide seems to me to be the next logical step in bringing new players.

Exactly. And I'm completely cool with Paizo dropping a major product every year that's focused on new(er) players.

-Skeld

it looks like a book that can easily be replaced by talking amongst your gaming peers in real life or online.

Not everyone has a circle of "gaming peers" who will take some real time to get them to understand the game.

And no one wants to be beholden to someone else's mastery. Sure, a new player can ask you X when X comes up, but why should they have to wait for X to come up in the first place? I'm sure they'd prefer to have their own eagle's eye view of the game and see how all the pieces of a complex puzzle like Pathfinder RPG fit together, than just get ad-hoc advice from those who just happen to be able to pore through that imposing tome (the Core Rulebook).

And to be frank, I have found in my experience that many gamers don't make good teachers. I have seen gamers tell people who are new, "Do this! And then do that!" but not figure out where they're coming from, plug up holes where in their misunderstanding, and present a variety of choices with pros and cons to each choice.

I haven't had formal teacher training (though I do teach a Pathfinder class!), but I would imagine this is the "independent study" component of well-rounded learning. Just as direct instruction has its place, so does study.

And as for that, there is no "textbook" for Pathfinder -- sure, the Beginner Box provides guidance for beginners, but what comes after that is a reference tome (the Core Rulebook). But there is no textbook.

Markolius Craggmorn wrote:

it looks like a book that can easily be replaced by talking amongst your gaming peers in real life or online.

Not everyone has a circle of "gaming peers" who will take some real time to get them to understand the game.

And no one wants to be beholden to someone else's mastery. Sure, a new player can ask you X when X comes up, but why should they have to wait for X to come up in the first place? I'm sure they'd prefer to have their own eagle's eye view of the game and see how all the pieces of a complex puzzle like Pathfinder RPG fit together, than just get ad-hoc advice from those who just happen to be able to pore through that imposing tome (the Core Rulebook).

And to be frank, I have found in my experience that many gamers don't make good teachers. I have seen gamers tell people who are new, "Do this! And then do that!" but not figure out where they're coming from, plug up holes where in their misunderstanding, and present a variety of choices with pros and cons to each choice.

I haven't had formal teacher training (though I do teach a Pathfinder class!), but I would imagine this is the "independent study" component of well-rounded learning. Just as direct instruction has its place, so does study.

And as for that, there is no "textbook" for Pathfinder -- sure, the Beginner Box provides guidance for beginners, but what comes after that is a reference tome (the Core Rulebook). But there is no textbook.

I don't know, the Core Rulebook feels a lot like a textbook to me. Textbooks are generally meant to accompany a class, and really depend on having a teacher to help you learn the material. Learning directly from a textbook is possible, but can be pretty challenging (believe me, I've tried).

This book reminds me of things like the "Head First" series of books. Unlike a textbook, they're meant to guide you through learning the topic without needing a teacher.

Otherwise, I totally agree with everything you've said here. I actually consider myself a pretty good teacher, but I still plan on getting at least one copy of this. If it turns out to be good, I'll get one for each of my less experienced players.

Consider this book sold. Do I need it? Nope, sure don't. The thing is, what books like this offer is really invaluable. They offer a different take on the game. No matter how close you look at something you'll never see it from someone else's perspective, that's where the stuff you missed is usually at. And you always miss something....

I have decided this will become a book I need to purchase. I will have to pick up a physical copy though as I am teaching my niece to play the game currently. I was about her age when my mom started to teach the game to me. So this will make it easier if she asks questions on how to play a certain class, as it will have the information she can read in a much easier fashion.

I think I will be buying a few of these.

This is the first Paizo book that I have preordered. My 12 & 14 year old kids get lost in the Core Rulebook. They're fine with the Beginner Box and are starting to understand some of the more advanced rules, but they just can't seem to ever find what they're looking for in the Core book. I'm hoping this will help them transition more easily from the Beginner Box to the full rules.

Paizo, if this turns out to be half as useful as it sounds in the description I'm going to be one happy customer.

*psssst.. I'm already a happy customer* ^_^

The sole necessity of this product strikes me as result of the Core Rulebook's poor organization and Ivory Tower Design.

Yah, to me it seems like a major logic fail. People find it hard to read/navigate the main book and get into the game, (maybe, not really my experience, but there might be some but there?), so lets make another 100-200 page book that teaches you to read the first book? Granted, 3E and 4E both had the Dummies Guide to D&D. Now, on the other hand, if it where more of a general guide to adventuring and play, (sort of like the Gamemaserty Guide, but with tips, explanations, examples, and less partial information and incomplete guides), aimed at both players and DM's, that could be pretty awesome. I don't know. Doesn't look very useful or needed, to me, but maybe it will be great for others.

There are numerous, numerous examples of what the designers think is good character design. The short answer is that they don't whorship at the alter of DPR. Or really even throw a passing glance at it.

'Cause that's obviously ickyevilbadfun. :)

been playing this game for 20+ years

and there is still one guy in my group who desperately needs this after all that time.

also it would be good for my nephew who is just starting to get into the game.

I'd wager that the people who could learn the most from this book are the ones who will be amongst the loudest voices claiming they don't need it.

This is one of those books I've been waiting for -- between it and the gamemaster's guide I feel I have specialized, direct and insightful books to help my new or amateur players mature and grow in the hobby without me pulling my hair out or them feeling like someone is bashing them over the head with 'the right way to do things'.

And hopefully it will include a few surprises or new ideas for myself as well.

This isn't a dummies guide, it's a "kid friendly" guide. Nothing wrong with this at all. I have two kids ages 12 & 14 who I hope will get a lot of use from this. I plan on using this to help them transition from the Beginner Box to the core rules. It isn't meant for every Pathfinder player any more than the BB was made for every player. Whatever makes the game/rules more accessible to more players is a win for the hobby. Heck, I'll probably use this book and I started playing 29 years ago.