RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So for all this talk about Slashing Grace, why don't I see anyone talking about the fact that it gives you DEX to damage but takes away DEX to hit? Am I missing something?Slashing Grace doesn't actually take away DEX to hit, rather it applies DEX to damage with weapons that never qualified for DEX to hit in the first place. Then the swashbuckler level lets you use weapon finesse with one-handed piercing weapons, which Slashing Grace makes your slashing weapon qualify for.What I meant by "takes away" was "in order to use the feat, you have to do something that involves not getting DEX to hit, whereas before taking Slashing Grace you could do the thing that does get DEX to hit".
So realistically, Slashing Grace only gives you a practical benefit if you dip Swashbuckler. Alrighty then.
Or if you use a one-handed slashing weapon that lets you use weapon finesse. I believe the aldori dueling sword would work when used with proficiency, I can't think of any other weapons that qualify at the moment.
And yes, I can't help but feel this feat has some design flaws.
Yeah... it should be either a fully-functional feat or an actual class feature, not a feat which requires a class feature in order to function.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The whip and the Aldori Dueling Sword are the two I can think of.
Or if you use a one-handed slashing weapon that lets you use weapon finesse. I believe the aldori dueling sword would work when used with proficiency, I can't think of any other weapons that qualify at the moment.
Small-sized Elven Curve Blade?
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From my limited understanding of the Swashbuckler, Opportune Riposte and Parry has only had cosmetic changes - the mechanics appear to be identical to the ones in the revised play test. With that said, I'd hold off with starting that debate until you can quote the class ability in its entirety and read it in relation to the rest of the class. Like I said I'm not terribly familiar with the class, but there might be other class mechanics or feats down the line that interact with Opportune Riposte.
Thank you for the response.
Your advice will be heeded. I do not intend to start the topic until some days after Gencon. I will start taking notes on the points I want to hit on the topic, though.
Small-sized Elven Curve Blade?The whip and the Aldori Dueling Sword are the two I can think of.
Or if you use a one-handed slashing weapon that lets you use weapon finesse. I believe the aldori dueling sword would work when used with proficiency, I can't think of any other weapons that qualify at the moment.
Good thinking, but Slashing Grace calls out that the weapon has to be appropriately sized for you. :-/
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Small-sized Elven Curve Blade?The whip and the Aldori Dueling Sword are the two I can think of.
Or if you use a one-handed slashing weapon that lets you use weapon finesse. I believe the aldori dueling sword would work when used with proficiency, I can't think of any other weapons that qualify at the moment.
If you want to eat the to hit penalty, I guess it works.
EDIT: I guess not :/
I don't want to argue with you about this as I don't know nearly enough about rapiers to be any sort of authority. Only thing I can say is that my friend has told me, repeatedly, that wielding a rapier relies far more on his agility and dexterity than his strength.
There is a difference, after all, between brute strength and endurance. Someone can have a lot of endurance without bulking muscles, look at people like runners or gymnasts. Not saying they aren't strong, but aren't rippling with muscles as one would be in Pathfinder.
As for his swords (he has 3 I think), all of the blades are 3 ft. in length or longer; so I doubt they're 'short blades'.
I do know that he told me that, in essence, there are three kinds of rapiers. One was a piercing rapier, that the modern foil is descended from; it was used entirely for thrusting attacks and only the tip had an edge so that it could slide in and out of the body quickly. One was more like a conventional longsword; it had an edge to it and didn't make thrusts because it was a heavier blade and you couldn't retract it quickly if you hit. The third was an attempt at a hybrid between the two, in which it would be easy to thrust with, and have a slashing edge; it didn't work well because the blade was too thick for thrusts, but it wasn't strong enough for slashes and they just never really worked well.
However, the rapier as depicted in Pathfinder is a thrusting weapon, which relies a lot on being quick, precise, and agile. That is, according to what my friend has told me, the videos I've watched, and what little I've read on it.
Your friend isn't wrong, but Strength is also very important to using a rapier properly. There are three types of swords along that weapon evolution, The transitional sword (the "conventional" sword you mention, but is a side sword, not a longsword. Which is a shorter longsword. Short sword??), The rapier which had a long, narrow blade with various types of hilts, and the small sword, then that turned into the smallsword; which are shorter, very fancy looking and are only have a point.
The one depicted in PFRPG being used by the Rogue is a Rapier proper with blade and all. You get a good look at it on the cover of the Advanced Race Guide. The Rapier is Primarily a Thrusting weapon, but cutting is possible, but you don't do it the way you see people whip a sword around in a movie. To use the rapier with any kind of precision requires a lot of strength in your hands, forearms and shoulders. Using the weapon properly requires building up a lot of strength. I'm not saying bulky, but practical muscle for the stance and lunging and holding the weapon for a good amount of time while fighting. You certainly need to be nimble and fast and quick of wit, but maintaining control of your blade and quickly lunging in and back out needs a good amount of strength behind it to do accurately. Thats why i think dex to damage with a rapier doesn't make sense to me. But I guess the idea is to emulate Errol Flynn, so whatever
Can I beg for some info on the verminous slayer? :)
I loved that UM opened options for those, but between not getting feats until you spent a point in Int (therefore losing mindless traits) and having absolutely miserable stats (5 point buy or less on some?..) I had to scrap ideas I'd wanted to use.
The verminous slayer is a hunter archetype that gets a vermin animal companion and a series of class features centered on or around vermin. Among other things he can safely move inside a swarm without taking any penalties, which could potentially be very interesting indeed for a melee hunter using Summon Swarm, Mad Monkeys or Rain of Frogs!
I'm not familiar with the vermin rules in Ultimate Magic but I see them referenced in the text for the verminous slayer, so I suspect you may run into some of the same problems here. :-/
That's a shame. I'll take a look at them when I see the book- moving in swarms without damage or anything sounds amazing though. I can't wait for next week. :)
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I will say that I am very pleased that I'll be able to use weapon finesse+dex to damage with a katana ;)
Might still use a Wakizashi since it is Piercing and Slashing though.
Speaking of feats that require class features, does the feral hunter (and whoever else may have picked up wild shape? Someone mentioned a cavalier?) qualify for Natural Spell, Aspect of the Beast, and the like? Either by having the class feature called "Wild Shape", or through a "counts as X for interactions with..." line?
So I agree on this slashing grace nonsense.
Can we talk about Divine Protection? I mean, what Oracle won't take it? Who will turn down charisma bonus to all saves? Clearly that had to be obvious to the designers. Granted they can't take it til 5th level, but pretty awesome.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So I agree on this slashing grace nonsense.
Can we talk about Divine Protection? I mean, what Oracle won't take it? Who will turn down charisma bonus to all saves? Clearly that had to be obvious to the designers. Granted they can't take it til 5th level, but pretty awesome.
Like, static CHA-to-saves? Are there any prereqs?
With the feat as written, you wont be able to dex to damage with the wakizashi, as it's not one-handed.I will say that I am very pleased that I'll be able to use weapon finesse+dex to damage with a katana ;)
Might still use a Wakizashi since it is Piercing and Slashing though.
You wield a wakizashi in one hand. Why wouldn't you be able to?
With the feat as written, you wont be able to dex to damage with the wakizashi, as it's not one-handed.I will say that I am very pleased that I'll be able to use weapon finesse+dex to damage with a katana ;)
Might still use a Wakizashi since it is Piercing and Slashing though.
It is a one handed weapon. I just happens to be a light one handed weapon. I think you all are parsing the language too much.
Yep, static Charisma to saves.
You'd have to be at least 5th level and be something with the domain, mystery or a new class feature for one of the classes: blessings. There's knowledge ranks required too in religion.
Clearly it had to be obvious almost every oracle would take this. There's one in a game I play that wouldn't since he's battle and has low charisma. But many oracles will want this.
Cleric, Inquisitors, etc might want depending on charisma. So I'm guessing the designers looked at this with a "okay, really good for most oracles, others may like."
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You wield a wakizashi in one hand. Why wouldn't you be able to?With the feat as written, you wont be able to dex to damage with the wakizashi, as it's not one-handed.I will say that I am very pleased that I'll be able to use weapon finesse+dex to damage with a katana ;)
Might still use a Wakizashi since it is Piercing and Slashing though.
Because the Slashing Grace feat only applies to "one-handed" weapons, which is a specific category that does not include "light" weapons.
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It's a massive help as I've had to improvise this sort of thing on a regular basis (I always forget during players' character creation). Again, very, very helpful.(Clr/Sha/Wit) Speak with Haunt: Haunt answers one question/2 levels.I don't usually do this, but I have to say.. I cooked that one up to help add roleplaying elements to them, which seemed to be a frequent source of complaints.
You guys, there has been a low-level (and non-magical!) mechanism for communicating with haunts for several years now, published first in the Haunts of Golarion article in Haunting of Harrowstone and revisited in Occult Mysteries. Rules (scroll down to "Investigating Haunts") for speaking with haunts in the form of rapping spirits (primarily to open up roleplaying opportunities for PCs to discern the keys to laying them to rest) have been around for a while, without that pesky 4th-level spell requirement. Jus' sayin'. ;-)
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Yep, static Charisma to saves.
You'd have to be at least 5th level and be something with the domain, mystery or a new class feature for one of the classes: blessings. There's knowledge ranks required too in religion.
Clearly it had to be obvious almost every oracle would take this. There's one in a game I play that wouldn't since he's battle and has low charisma. But many oracles will want this.
Cleric, Inquisitors, etc might want depending on charisma. So I'm guessing the designers looked at this with a "okay, really good for most oracles, others may like."
So, if I have a Swashbuckler take say... a one level dip into Cleric, I'd be able to pick up charisma to saves at level 5?
So, if I have a Swashbuckler take say... a one level dip into Cleric, I'd be able to pick up charisma to saves at level 5?
You'd need at least 3 levels of cleric or a 2nd level Divine SLA to qualify (one level of cleric with the trickery domain would work).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So, if I have a Swashbuckler take say... a one level dip into Cleric, I'd be able to pick up charisma to saves at level 5?Yep, static Charisma to saves.
You'd have to be at least 5th level and be something with the domain, mystery or a new class feature for one of the classes: blessings. There's knowledge ranks required too in religion.
Clearly it had to be obvious almost every oracle would take this. There's one in a game I play that wouldn't since he's battle and has low charisma. But many oracles will want this.
Cleric, Inquisitors, etc might want depending on charisma. So I'm guessing the designers looked at this with a "okay, really good for most oracles, others may like."
You know, that actually sounds pretty cool for a Caydenite...
It's a massive help as I've had to improvise this sort of thing on a regular basis (I always forget during players' character creation). Again, very, very helpful.(Clr/Sha/Wit) Speak with Haunt: Haunt answers one question/2 levels.I don't usually do this, but I have to say.. I cooked that one up to help add roleplaying elements to them, which seemed to be a frequent source of complaints.You guys, there has been a low-level (and non-magical!) mechanism for communicating with haunts for several years now, published first in the Haunts of Golarion article in Haunting of Harrowstone and revisited in Occult Mysteries. Rules (scroll down to "Investigating Haunts") for speaking with haunts in the form of rapping spirits (primarily to open up roleplaying opportunities for PCs to discern the keys to laying them to rest) have been around for a while, without that pesky 4th-level spell requirement. Jus' sayin'. ;-)
Of course you're the one to remember the spirit planchette!
So how about the brawler on page eighty seven (shield champion) looks f!*+ing badass; I really like Reynolds' art, but this one just fits. No idea which artist handled it, unfortunately.
I sort of doubt that Divine Protection is going to survive a FAQ...
And really doubt it'll be in PFS.
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Of course you're the one to remember the spirit planchette!It's a massive help as I've had to improvise this sort of thing on a regular basis (I always forget during players' character creation). Again, very, very helpful.(Clr/Sha/Wit) Speak with Haunt: Haunt answers one question/2 levels.I don't usually do this, but I have to say.. I cooked that one up to help add roleplaying elements to them, which seemed to be a frequent source of complaints.You guys, there has been a low-level (and non-magical!) mechanism for communicating with haunts for several years now, published first in the Haunts of Golarion article in Haunting of Harrowstone and revisited in Occult Mysteries. Rules (scroll down to "Investigating Haunts") for speaking with haunts in the form of rapping spirits (primarily to open up roleplaying opportunities for PCs to discern the keys to laying them to rest) have been around for a while, without that pesky 4th-level spell requirement. Jus' sayin'. ;-)
Hahaha, well, there's that. But this particular method doesn't need tools. AND it's historically accurate.
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Because the Slashing Grace feat only applies to "one-handed" weapons, which is a specific category that does not include "light" weapons.You wield a wakizashi in one hand. Why wouldn't you be able to?With the feat as written, you wont be able to dex to damage with the wakizashi, as it's not one-handed.I will say that I am very pleased that I'll be able to use weapon finesse+dex to damage with a katana ;)
Might still use a Wakizashi since it is Piercing and Slashing though.
By their very nature "Light" weapons are all one handed, I don't know of any Two Handed Light weapons. They probably just didn't say both light and/or one-handed to either save on space or because they figured common sense would dictate that a weapon in one hand is a one handed weapon.
Although, while we're on such an off topic tangent.... before the ACG playtests, Sean necro'd a two year old thread about abjuration. Does it look like anything came of that? Anything about dispelling?
All I've seen so far is the arcanist's counterspell, but it's extremely flexible. It's difficult to explain it without pasting the entire class and feats chapter, but the potential...
It's a massive help as I've had to improvise this sort of thing on a regular basis (I always forget during players' character creation). Again, very, very helpful.(Clr/Sha/Wit) Speak with Haunt: Haunt answers one question/2 levels.I don't usually do this, but I have to say.. I cooked that one up to help add roleplaying elements to them, which seemed to be a frequent source of complaints.You guys, there has been a low-level (and non-magical!) mechanism for communicating with haunts for several years now, published first in the Haunts of Golarion article in Haunting of Harrowstone and revisited in Occult Mysteries. Rules (scroll down to "Investigating Haunts") for speaking with haunts in the form of rapping spirits (primarily to open up roleplaying opportunities for PCs to discern the keys to laying them to rest) have been around for a while, without that pesky 4th-level spell requirement. Jus' sayin'. ;-)
Not arguing with you Brandon. My only counterpoint would be those rules didn't make it into a Core Product. Also, and I have to be careful because I don't want Bulmahn to get mad at me, speak with haunt doesn't require the haunt to be triggered. I mean, it can be cast just outside of the trigger range and the use of the spell never triggers. The onus is on you to detect it and have prior knowledge of it however, and we know that isn't always easy. You can also use the spell after it has been riled, of course. That's also handy for those higher level haunts with a 1 minute reset time.
I'd have liked to have seen it be 3rd level though.
The rapping spirit methodology does require you to wrangle and beat up the haunt before you can implement it. I won't BS you, I had forgotten it about that technique though. I think that is a great point to bring up, and excellent for lower level haunts. I can't apologize for the spell though, because by the time you're 7th or 8th level, a single haunt can be nasty business.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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By their very nature "Light" weapons are all one handed, I don't know of any Two Handed Light weapons. They probably just didn't say both light and/or one-handed to either save on space or because they figured common sense would dictate that a weapon in one hand is a one handed weapon.
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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By their very nature "Light" weapons are all one handed, I don't know of any Two Handed Light weapons. They probably just didn't say both light and/or one-handed to either save on space or because they figured common sense would dictate that a weapon in one hand is a one handed weapon.
The rules consistently make a distinction between light and one-handed weapons (RE: Power Attack).
Ugh, I should just avoid this thread all together. Honestly, I'm not sure what annoys me more, the fact Rapiers don't get dex to damage, or that there is no Energy Sword in the book that is supposed to mix Science-Fiction with Sword and Sorcery Fantasy.
Likeness to the Lightsaber be damned, there should have been an energy blade in that book.
What about flame blade and the brilliant energy property?
Yea, it's pretty cut and dry, as Jiggy showed. They even say (Like a longsword), which just further nails the case shut.
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Sorry to interrupt the "Dex to Damage" thread (seriously guys, I am getting mouse-finger-itis here with all the scrolling through Dex to damage posts), but I was hoping someone could share a bit about what new archetypes the alchemist and summoner get in this new book? Thanks. :)
BTW,
If there is any doubts, I do actually love haunts. So does Brandon. We both enjoy working with them.
My reply should not be taken as my intention to ever get rid of haunts. :)
By their very nature "Light" weapons are all one handed, I don't know of any Two Handed Light weapons. They probably just didn't say both light and/or one-handed to either save on space or because they figured common sense would dictate that a weapon in one hand is a one handed weapon.
Well, in about every class ability I remember off the cuff which references light and one-handed weapons, they are always both mentioned. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they are considered completely separate weapon-groups.
Which would make this already bizarre situation even more hilariously absurd. You can't dex-to-damage a cutlass, but a bastard sword! ^^
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Yea, it's pretty cut and dry, as Jiggy showed. They even say (Like a longsword), which just further nails the case shut.
Hrrm thish is very annoying. I guess they shouldn't have used the actual One-Handed weapon terminology and simply said when wielding a wagon one handed or something.
Feel bad for the PFS peeps.
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Sorry to interrupt the "Dex to Damage" thread (seriously guys, I am getting mouse-finger-itis here with all the scrolling through Dex to damage posts), but I was hoping someone could share a bit about what new archetypes the alchemist and summoner get in this new book? Thanks. :)
The alchemist gets a bunch of new discoveries, but only one new archetype. The Inspired Chemist, which borrows Inspiration mechanics from the Investigator.
The Summoner gets two new archetypes, the Naturalist (who uses SNA instead of SM and gains various Hunter abilities) and the Spirit Summoner (who taps into the shaman spirits and hexes).
So, people with the book, how does the Blade Adept archetype for arcanist hold up to the Bladebound archetype for the magus?
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Does the sorcerer get any new bloodlines?
Are there any polymorph spells that let you take the form of fey or any other creature type we do not have such spells for?
Are there any cool feats for sorcerers?
Sounds great! :D
Would you mind? ;P
Any Skald Archetype that get Bardic performances? Any Bard love? Feat that let improved bardic performance or let you use 2 performances at the same time? Have they fixed versatile performance? A feat so you can redistribute skills? Any magic or mundane toys? Instrument that can double as a weapon?? On the first question I can say that there is a skald archetype that gets something similar to the arcane duelist's bladethirst performance, but it affects everyone. Other than that I haven't seen any traditional bardic performance abilities, though I might well have missed something. I'm not terribly up to date on the skald.
Edit: Just found a magic item that gives skalds Inspire Courage and bards Raging Song!
The second question... There is so much text to work through that it's really hard to answer something concretely, but I'm reasonably sure you'll find stuff that benefits every class greatly. Near as I can tell Versatile Performance is unchanged, I haven't seen a feat that lets you redistribute skills, and they get some really cool magic toys (poet's cloak) and mundane toys (Tome of Epics).
New toys. Cool. Thanks for the info. :)
Any new sorcerer bloodlines?
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So I read the Swashbuckler. Then came here to confirm the most baffling thing I found. Yep, no dex to damage for the most iconic weapon of a swashbuckler. Closest I can get is a feat tax and using a cutlass. The whole reason I bought this book was because of this class and a promise in a blog post for dex to damage. For the first time, I honestly feel a little cheated by Paizo.
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I've been kind of reluctant to comment on sorcerer bloodlines - generally I can do a word search for the relevant terms to quickly go through the document for whatever information people are looking for, but "bloodline" and "sorcerer" both has dozens if not hundreds of hits in the PDF. I can't see any new bloodlines under the archetype listings, but I can't guarantee that they don't exist in the book.
I did find a charisma-based spontaneous casting magus archetype though. It looks pretty awesome. :)
Sorry to interrupt the "Dex to Damage" thread (seriously guys, I am getting mouse-finger-itis here with all the scrolling through Dex to damage posts), but I was hoping someone could share a bit about what new archetypes the alchemist and summoner get in this new book? Thanks. :)The alchemist gets a bunch of new discoveries, but only one new archetype. The Inspired Chemist, which borrows Inspiration mechanics from the Investigator.
The Summoner gets two new archetypes, the Naturalist (who uses SNA instead of SM and gains various Hunter abilities) and the Spirit Summoner (who taps into the shaman spirits and hexes).
Those summoner archetypes sound like something like what I was hoping for. I hoped for more with the Alchemist, but maybe I will find some discoveries I like when I get my PDF. Thanks!
So I read the Swashbuckler. Then came here to confirm the most baffling thing I found. Yep, no dex to damage for the most iconic weapon of a swashbuckler. Closest I can get is a feat tax and using a cutlass. The whole reason I bought this book was because of this class and a promise in a blog post for dex to damage. For the first time, I honestly feel a little cheated by Paizo.
What's stopping you from house-ruling it into a class feature or feat?