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Man, you'd think according to some people the playtest went like this: (Warning, semi-NSFW due to language) Penny Arcade
Man, you'd think according to some people the playtest went like this: (Warning, semi-NSFW due to language) Penny Arcade
Lol....
Still laughing...Back on track I want to use some of the Mythic Templates in my campaign world so I can have Mythic Animals much like the White Stag etc. I have all kinds of uses for this.
I can also mix this with Super Genius Games' Godling Books...hell even a Mythic Time Thief.
Between Feats, New Mythic Abilities, New Mythic Paths, and Spells a ton of things that 3rd Party Publishers can fly with. I foresee a ton of 3rd party support for this.
Can someone give Peter a hug, because, wow, that's a lot of insulting rage.
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PDF is available now!
But not for me. Grrrr.
I received the "we will be shipping soon" notice last week but it hasn't shipped yet.
Annoying that everyone who didn't preorder can just come get the book right now and I'm stuck waiting for the warehouse staff to come back from GenCon.
Is that what happened? Is there an ETA?
I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10 after 10 MTs.
Two reasons to be a bit wary with it spring immediately to mind.
The first is, obviously (as others have mentioned) the SAD vs MAD class issue. It's self-explanatory and I don't think I need to go into it.
The second is an issue that would only really appear at high level and tier; that of gulfs between different modifiers growing so large that they swamp the range of a d20. For example, at 20th level, say, you might have a cleric who needs to roll only a 5 to pass a Will save, but needs to roll an 18 to pass a Reflex save of the same DC. If you take that cleric and add 10 to his Wisdom and nothing to his Dex, suddenly he's passing that Will save on anything but a 1 and failing the Reflex save on anything under 18 still. A greater divergence.
It's not great for balanced play to have such vast gulfs between different modifiers or defenses. When they get too large then you have issues where you are only rolling for 1s or 20s. TBH I think one of the things the 3.0 ELH got right (and there was plenty it got wrong) was that it recognized the need to flatten the basic progression of most numbers and (try to) stop them diverging further from each other than they already had by 20th level... so you got, say, a single epic save progression that was the same across all saves, and an item cost progression that greatly incentivized rounding out your character before pumping the primary scores (because you could get +6 to all abilities for a lot cheaper than +12 to one, and such).
This seems to be the opposite approach - a progression that aims to increase the rate of divergence (though you will have different divergences for different classes - for example, a fighter who chose Str would be attack bonus/damage diverging more swiftly from AC/HP). I'm a bit leery of it although I will wait to see it in play to draw any conclusions. It may be that other parts of mythic mitigate things, and I have yet to carefully read the whole book.
Hopefully this explains why some people are nervous of this though. :)
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I don't see the issue of getting essentially a +10 after 10 MTs.
Overall I like the mechanics here. Surges being an immediate action doesn't bother me. It just means you have to make a choice on what to use your swift action on.
And as for them not listening to the playtest after the second one, I'm not sure what to say. Playtests don't mean that the developers automatically implement whatever feedback people give them. They are there to get feedback about certain issues and then the developers take that into consideration when making decisions about them. To be honest, the Surge dice increase and amount of Mythic power you get per day are fine, but also feel like a matter of taste between people.
So it's not that they didn't listen to the feedback (since looking at the first playtest, they clearly do). It's just that they heard the feedback, talked it over, and didn't agree with it. To be honest, the forums can be this echo chamber that overexaggerates things immensely, so I am glad to see they don't just blindly agree with everyone on the forums. But this also isn't belittling the feedback either, as there is some good feedback that changed a lot and brought up concerns. I would like to hear the reasoning behind why they kept some things. And also, I still don't see the issue with a +10 at Mythic Tier 10, considering the things you fight.
Amen, Brother Eduardo!
;)
Very Much so, Aerial Assault allows for leaps of 10ft x Mythic Tier so you can do the super leaps from building to building fairly easy. There is a little something for every one in this.
Funnily enough, Aerial Assault lets you do such far jumps only if you charge a creature.
Just jumping from building to building?
Sorry, can't do.
Oh wait, is there a rat on top of that other building? CHAAARGE!
Funnily enough, Aerial Assault lets you do such far jumps only if you charge a creature.
Just jumping from building to building?
Sorry, can't do.
Oh wait, is there a rat on top of that other building? CHAAARGE!
That building looked at me funny.
It sadly specifies creature, can't charge objects with it.
So first ask your wizard friend to cast animate object on the roof.^^
It sadly specifies creature, can't charge objects with it.
So first ask your wizard friend to cast animate object on the roof.^^
Animated roof tiles it is then
Or I can grapple a bug then leap into the air
Thanks to Coriat and xevious (and whoever else I missed) for explaining that. I can certainly understand why people think a +10 is a bit of an issue. I may not agree completely, but it certainly opened my eyes a bit more.
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Thanks to Coriat and xevious (and whoever else I missed) for explaining that. I can certainly understand why people think a +10 is a bit of an issue. I may not agree completely, but it certainly opened my eyes a bit more.
Hey, it's cool. Glad you atleast understand our worries, even if you don't agree completely. Now if I could just get Peter to stop frothing at the mouth....
Not sure if asked anywhere else in the thread but does it hint at which NPCs in Golarion are mythic (like in Inner Sea Magic)?
Could we assume that Iomedae and Cayden had mythic levels hence why they were strong / worthy enough to pass the Starstone Test?
I think there's a book on that topic coming out in the Companion line the next few months. I think its called Mythic Origins or something like that.
PDF is available now!But not for me. Grrrr.
I received the "we will be shipping soon" notice last week but it hasn't shipped yet.
Annoying that everyone who didn't preorder can just come get the book right now and I'm stuck waiting for the warehouse staff to come back from GenCon.
Yes. I just woke up to my Wrath of the Righteous PDF still not being available to me and I want to rip someones face off, so I know how you feel. :-/
The second is an issue that would only really appear at high level and tier; that of gulfs between different modifiers growing so large that they swamp the range of a d20. For example, at 20th level, say, you might have a cleric who needs to roll only a 5 to pass a Will save, but needs to roll an 18 to pass a Reflex save of the same DC. If you take that cleric and add 10 to his Wisdom and nothing to his Dex, suddenly he's passing that Will save on anything but a 1 and failing the Reflex save on anything under 18 still. A greater divergence.
Basically the same problem epic gameplay had in 3.5. Mythic seems to help with this by giving you options where you can reroll your saves, get a +5 modifier to your save vs. the same effect if you fail the first one and similar stuff, so it'll be interesting if offense or defense wins out here.
From what I can tell so far?
Offense, hands down. Well, kinda.
While pretty much everything has a counter, pretty much no one will have them all. And if you get hit with something you didn't build to counter, you are probably dead/completely disabled in round one.
While the rules seem to be able to produce quite balanced characters, they also nudge you towards "rocket tag one-trick pony", especially if you are martial.
My first thought when I cracked open the book, beyond the initial instinct to start making houserules adapting what I don't like to something more in line with my vision, was "Hmm, rules for Mythic Tier 11-20 would make for some pretty interesting deity rules."
Besides that, while I'm overall pleased at the system, some areas are definitely lacking—partly as far as game balance concerns go, some things I hope will be fixed in later revisiions—but also because things that would have been easy additions were omitted. Admittedly those are mostly modifications upon existing rules, but I don't know about you; the first thing I want to do when I'm done making something is figure out all the ways it can be used.
As sad as I am for not being able to read my Wrath of the Righteous PDF?
i just want to see the product. when's the pdf available?
Yesterday
Well sadly I couldn't wait for my shipping notice so I just paid extra for the PDF I'll get for free in the next week. How sad am I?
I considered doing that. Decided against it because for me the weekend is the beginning of my working week, and I hope to have it shipped before I've got time to sit down and read it in detail.
Well sadly I couldn't wait for my shipping notice so I just paid extra for the PDF I'll get for free in the next week. How sad am I?
I have thought about doing the same...but I know with in 5 minutes of doing that I'll get that e-mail.
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(I'm posting this independent of any previous discussion :) )
For anyone who is worried that mythic powers are too offensive focused... take a look at this list. Basically, with all this, if you don't have enough defenses it is your own fault. The design is interesting actually. Defense is an 'active' ability in this book. You have to rely upon your mythic powers to survive rather than just high saving throw bonuses and HP.
Save Bonuses and Rerolls
Force of Will (all): reroll a d20, immediate action
Unstoppable (all): remove conditions, free action
Adamantine Mine (Guardian): add tier vs mind affecting
Lesson Learned (Guardian): After failing one save, get +5 on future saves against same ability
Rally (Marshal): Give all allies a reroll during the current round
Inspired Defense (Marshal): Add Bardic Performance bonus to all saves. Mythic point to add Tier as well (this is insane)
Words of Hope (Marshal): Give allies 1/round reroll for 1 round per tier
Surge of Hope: Immediate Action, give ally reroll on save with your surge bonus
Legendary Items (Many wearable types of items): can add legendary or mythic surge rolls to saves, can range from 1d6 to 1d12 or more, no action!
Mythic Cloaks of Resistance: extra +1 to one save, and rerolls for mythic power
AC Bonuses and defenses against attacks
Mirror Dodge (Archmage, Trickster): immediate action to teleport away from attack
Sudden Block (Guardian Ability): immediate action to protect yourself or ally
Enduring Armor (Archmage): gain up to 13 force armor
Meat Shield (Champion): immediate action, use grappled enemy to block attack
Titan's Bane (Champion, Trickster): move into large enemy's space to gain cover
Incredible Parry (Champion, Guardian): Gain duelist parry ability
Armored Might (Guardian): increase armor bonus by 50%
Deadly Dodge (Trickster): Gain +4 dodge bonus and free AOOs against opponents who miss you
Defensive Move (Trickster): Avoid AOOs from one opponent, doesn't cost power
Extra hit points and protection from damage
Mythic Toughness: double bonus from toughness
Absorb Blow (Guardian): prevent damage, gain stacking DR and resistance
Invincible Stand (Guardian): swift action and stand still for DR 20/-
Sacrificial Shield (Guardian Ability): 1/round reduce damage taken by shield hit points (mythic point to avoid broken shield)
Mythic healing
Contingent Channel Energy(Hierophant): set conditions for a channel to be activated
Relentless Healing (Hierophant): restore life to recently dead
Shout of Defiance (Marshal): 100 ft radius channel for allies, allies revieved can stand up as immediate action
Other Defenses
Flexible Counterspell (Archmage, Hierophant): Counter spell as immediate action
Spellbane Counterstrike (Archmage): Run to up caster of a spell you countered, get possible AOO
Clean Blade (Champion): Blind or Sicken enemies after critical hit
Draw Fire (Guardian): immediate action, draw ranged attacks to yourself instead of ally
Parry Spell(Guardian): defect spell aimed at yourself or an ally
Ranged Disarm (Guardian): disarm opponent with ranged weapon
Shrug it Off (guardian): ignore critical hit
Cling to Life (guardian): any sort of normal healing can bring you back from death
Take the Hit (guardian): split damage with ally
Indomitable (guardian): pick conditions to become immune to
Undying Healer (Hierophant): keep healing others while you are unconscious
Aura of Preserverance (Marshal): Stablize dying allies, negate their staggered condition
Fight On (Marshal): Keep Ally from dying
Master of Escape (Trickster): Escape artist out of effects such as paralasys.
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i just want to see the product. when's the pdf available?
If you are a subscriber, you will get to download it when you receive your shipping notice. This could happen anytime between now and a week or two from now, depending on when they get it shipped, bearing in mind it's GenCon week and things will be slower than usual.
If you are not a subscriber... I think you can buy it now, actually; IIRC the release date was yesterday.
I've done my first quick scan of the book and am largely happy with what I've seen so far. There may well be typical gamer nitpicks as I get into the meat of it but from a broad sweep it looks good. Also looks to me like they did indeed bear in mind a lot of playtester feedback, I feel like they fixed or clarified a number of things that needed to be (such as mythic immortality).
Extra Mythic Path feat:
There isn't an indication that this feat can be taken more than once. Is this purposefully done, or is it an error and can be taken multiple times?
I'm asking because I have a Oread Paladin who does not qualify for 98% of all the feats (chose to drop the ability to cast spells for the Holy Warrior archetype).
So, his only options are: extra mythic path, extra mythic power, the 2 or 3 surge feats and that's it! just wondering because Extra Path multiple times would be the best, that's all.
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PDF is available now!But not for me. Grrrr.
I received the "we will be shipping soon" notice last week but it hasn't shipped yet.
Annoying that everyone who didn't preorder can just come get the book right now and I'm stuck waiting for the warehouse staff to come back from GenCon.
It's super annoying because it's also cutting into my budgeting for the month. I'm not being billed until it actmually ships, so I need to maintain a much higher minimum balance in my account than normal for this time of month.
This is super aggravating. I had planned on starting my new wrath of the righteous campaign today, now I have to call off my group's session this week as well.
Mythic Power Attack should have died in a fire, but it seems it survived its needlessly confusing way into the final copy. That's a bummer.
Mythic Power Attack should have died in a fire, but it seems it survived its needlessly confusing way into the final copy. That's a bummer.
Confusing?
It is +3's instead of +2's, the extra damage is applied to criticals spend 1 mythic power to negate the to hit penalty for one minute.it read very simple to me at least...
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Im still reading and glancing through it, and I could be wrong, but it really does seem like a few of the paths or very underwelming (both in actual powers and in thier flavor too) while a few others seem really cool and strong. Outside of the obvious, what do you think would be the implications of simply dropping Paths entirely and opening all powers up, (or not having Paths related to Power options)?
There is still a universal path, right? Nobody has mentioned what abilities are from there.
Mythic Power Attack should have died in a fire, but it seems it survived its needlessly confusing way into the final copy. That's a bummer.Confusing?
It is +3's instead of +2's, the extra damage is applied to criticals spend 1 mythic power to negate the to hit penalty for one minute.it read very simple to me at least...
+3s instead of +2s...but what about two handed weapons?
Extra damage from the feat is doubled before being applied to critical modifier?
So let's pretend I have my greataxe, and normally hit for 1d12+7. With power attack at level 10, my barbarian is hitting for 1d12+16. On a crit, he rolls damage and multiplies it by 3.
But mythic power attack...hmm. Do I use +4 damage per -1? Let's assume not, for a second. Now, my same power attack is 1d12+16. But on a crit, I have to double the bonus damage from power attack (or is it just from mythic power attack?) first, before multiplying it by 3, so now it becomes 3[1d12+7+2(9)].
Sure, you can write out that your damage is 1d12+16 (power attack), 1d12+25x3 on a crit, but that's just needless complication to something that was once very simple.