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Couple of areas seem pretty lack luster though. The Magic item creation section for example seems to be mostly about "these are the reasons your DM is going to tell you NO"
Oh please don’t say that, one if the biggest things I’ve been looking forward to is a more descriptive and clarified section on magic item creation.
I hope there is a more detailed list on what you can take a +5 DC on and more detailed explanation on how cooperative crafting works.
Instead of just “yes, you can work with another person to craft a magic item.”
Pages 170 to 175 cover magic item crafting and advice how to handel some cases, like a use activated true strike weapon, upgrading magic items and other cases. They showcase the idea of talismanic components, like dragon heartblood to craft a flaming weapon.
This isn't a more descriptive and clarified section on magic item creation. IIRC the GMG had something like that, or maybe it was UM.
The magic item creation was never going to be anything more than advice honestly. Although the talisman magic item option is really cool for those that want to make magic item questing a thing.
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Sob... Why must I stay in pending limbo?... sob... sob... All I want is to read my shiny pdf*Joins sobbing* This wait is killing me.
I am sure it is Cosmo's fault.
Pages 170 to 175 cover magic item crafting and advice how to handel some cases, like a use activated true strike weapon, upgrading magic items and other cases. They showcase the idea of talismanic components, like dragon heartblood to craft a flaming weapon.
This isn't a more descriptive and clarified section on magic item creation. IIRC the GMG had something like that, or maybe it was UM.Wow, that is really, really disappointing. By his own words when I spoke with him at GenCon, Sean indicated that the section would clarify the rules on magic item creation, including detailing what you can and can’t use an additional +5 DC.
At least Wealth per level for crafters addressed, that is one factor I’ve been a bit confused on. But from what I hearing about this section, very disappointing.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I think that is Newton's Fourth Law of Motion, isn't it?
First law: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by a force. An object in motion remains in motion, and at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.
Second law: The acceleration of a body is directly proportional to, and in the same direction as, the net force acting on the body, and inversely proportional to its mass. Thus, F = ma, where F is the net force acting on the object, m is the mass of the object and a is the acceleration of the object.
Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.
Fourth law: Always blame Cosmo. :)
My order is still pending too. This is probably what I get for adding a bunch of things to my order; it probably moved me to the back of the queue. D:
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Wow, that is really, really disappointing. By his own words when I spoke with him at GenCon, Sean indicated that the section would clarify the rules on magic item creation, including detailing what you can and can’t use an additional +5 DC.
That question (like many that arose from the "any questions about magic item crafting" thread I started) is important enough that it belonged in the FAQ where everyone could read it, not in a book of campaign options that many people wouldn't know was the place to find rulings on how the default crafting system is supposed to work.
The Magic Item explanation is pretty sweet. There is a section that describes how to craft cooperatively, and thank goodness it allows you to have another character supply spells that you don't possess when crafting magic items! However, only the person who actually has the item creation feat makes the Spellcraft check to finish the item.
It has a section describing the considerations one should take when creating a new magic item (such as why you should be paying more than 2,000 gp for a mace with a constant truestrike effect.
There are rules for upgrading existing magic items; it is basically a printed version of what the various developers have been saying for years; subtract current price from finished price and pay the difference.
The "arcane components" section is basically a set of alternate rules that a GM can use to add additional flavor to making magic items. It doesn't really give much guidelines and its probably the weakest piece of the Magic Items section. As someone else said, this one section reads very much as, "Dear GMs, use these rules if you want to place limits on what your PCs can craft."
Wow, that is really, really disappointing. By his own words when I spoke with him at GenCon, Sean indicated that the section would clarify the rules on magic item creation, including detailing what you can and can’t use an additional +5 DC.That question (like many that arose from the "any questions about magic item crafting" thread I started) is important enough that it belonged in the FAQ where everyone could read it, not in a book of campaign options that many people wouldn't know was the place to find rulings on how the default crafting system is supposed to work.
Point taken.
I guess I was just hoping for something in a little more in depth with the book than the short statement in the FAQ.
But thanks for the response.
The Magic Item explanation is pretty sweet. There is a section that describes how to craft cooperatively, and thank goodness it allows you to have another character supply spells that you don't possess when crafting magic items! However, only the person who actually has the item creation feat makes the Spellcraft check to finish the item.
It has a section describing the considerations one should take when creating a new magic item (such as why you should be paying more than 2,000 gp for a mace with a constant truestrike effect.
There are rules for upgrading existing magic items; it is basically a printed version of what the various developers have been saying for years; subtract current price from finished price and pay the difference.
The "arcane components" section is basically a set of alternate rules that a GM can use to add additional flavor to making magic items. It doesn't really give much guidelines and its probably the weakest piece of the Magic Items section. As someone else said, this one section reads very much as, "Dear GMs, use these rules if you want to place limits on what your PCs can craft."
Now that sounds great, especially emphasis mine. From what I had been told there was nothing describing cooperative crafting, I am so glad to hear there is some rules detailing it in the book.
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Love, love, love!
Story feats, with pre-requisites of in-game actions, or a linked background trait... I can see to this leading to more people selecting interesting background-related traits versus the 100th reactionary or dangerously curious PC.
i.e. more interesting characters
At first glance, the retraining rules look spot-on.
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I'm going to lose at least 5-10 hours over a holiday weekend absorbing all this.
I can blame Jason for this, right?
F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 IT'S HEEEEERE my preciousssss
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Wow, that is really, really disappointing. By his own words when I spoke with him at GenCon, Sean indicated that the section would clarify the rules on magic item creation, including detailing what you can and can’t use an additional +5 DC.That question (like many that arose from the "any questions about magic item crafting" thread I started) is important enough that it belonged in the FAQ where everyone could read it, not in a book of campaign options that many people wouldn't know was the place to find rulings on how the default crafting system is supposed to work.Point taken.
I guess I was just hoping for something in a little more in depth with the book than the short statement in the FAQ.
But thanks for the response.
...The Magic Item explanation is pretty sweet. There is a section that describes how to craft cooperatively, and thank goodness it allows you to have another character supply spells that you don't possess when crafting magic items! However, only the person who actually has the item creation feat makes the Spellcraft check to finish the item.
It has a section describing the considerations one should take when creating a new magic item (such as why you should be paying more than 2,000 gp for a mace with a constant truestrike effect.
There are rules for upgrading existing magic items; it is basically a printed version of what the various developers have been saying for years; subtract current price from finished price and pay the difference.
The "arcane components" section is basically a set of alternate rules that a GM can use to add additional flavor to making magic items. It doesn't really give much guidelines and its probably the weakest piece of the Magic Items section. As someone else said, this one section reads very much as, "Dear GMs, use these rules if you want to place limits
Sorry, but I assumed, that the contend of that particular bit were well known, if course I coulnd´t quote a source right now. To repeat myself, the section has good advice and some examples, but it contains nothing really new (but I guess the bit about upgrading might have been somewhat common knowledge on the boards, but now it is in print).
I'm trying to make sure I completely understand the Wealth by Level and Item Creation section. Is the additional 25% the amount of wealth they use to determine what they craft, and the original WBL spent as normal? This is my assumption reading it. Or is the additional 25% added to the standard WBL and then you just spend money like you crafted everything you could. I think that's the game breaker.
Sorry, but I assumed, that the contend of that particular bit were well known, if course I coulnd´t quote a source right now. To repeat myself, the section has good advice and some examples, but it contains nothing really new (but I guess the bit about upgrading might have been somewhat common knowledge on the boards, but now it is in print).
There is information on cooperative crafting in the CRB, but it is extremely brief. Basically it tells you that you can do cooperative crafting, and that one of you need to decide who will be considered the creator.
And now that I've received my PDF, it does detail it a bit more. Granted, not a lot, but more than what is said in the CRB.
In regards to the kingdom building, I cannot give an opinion on the overall system for it as I haven't read it in detail yet, but from what I have seen I will say one thing I don't like is you can't build unique structures.
Now it's just an "Inn", or a "Bank" or "Academy" and so on. It focuses on the overall kingdom, which is great, and it looks incredibly detailed, but I also would have liked the option of building unique structures, as well.
Still absorbing it all, but my initial impression is "full of awesome".
Sad Panda that mine haven't been shipped yet :(
How are some people getting downloads but the product says the PDF is available May 29?
How are some people getting downloads but the product says the PDF is available May 29?
We're Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscribers. Basically, when a product from the Core Rulebook line is released, we pay for it automatically and it ships to us a week or two before the street dates. Generally speaking, most of us find the book in our mail boxes by the Street Date (in this case, May 29th). In addition, the moment the book ships from the warehouse, we gain access to a free copy of the product's PDF, which means we generally get to see the book about a week before most people could hope to find the book in stores.
Except in this special subscription case, Paizo doesn't release the PDF until the street day to avoid angry business people.
Please correct any details I got wrong, Liz / Vic. ;-)
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Wow, that is really, really disappointing. By his own words when I spoke with him at GenCon, Sean indicated that the section would clarify the rules on magic item creation, including detailing what you can and can’t use an additional +5 DC.That question (like many that arose from the "any questions about magic item crafting" thread I started) is important enough that it belonged in the FAQ where everyone could read it, not in a book of campaign options that many people wouldn't know was the place to find rulings on how the default crafting system is supposed to work.
I can understand that, but I think there's a flaw in the assumption that the FAQ is the more accessible thing in terms of what players KNOW about. I think far more Pathfinder players read the rulebooks than even know the FAQ exists. Is there a reference to the FAQ in the rulebooks? I don't see one. I mean, in my groups, most of us are experienced players, but out of about 12-15 of us who play Pathfinder, only two of us visit the Paizo boards or site at all generally outside the PRD--and AFAICT the PRD doesn't link to or reference the FAQ either.
If the ruling had been listed briefly in UCa, for that matter, it would have ended up in the PRD where even people who had not bought the book would likely eventually see it.
Can't change anything now, but a comment to the staff in general that if you are relying upon the FAQ to make common rulings and suggestions known to ALL players, then you need to advertise the FAQ's existence much more broadly and make it more accessible. As it is, most people probably think that link to "Help/FAQ" is the SITE FAQ only, not the rules FAQ, and the rules FAQ links are tiny and not front and center.
This book is definitely 80% DM & 20% player material. I would have liked alittle more player material maybe such things as Ritual Magic, etc.
The new traits are very nice - so are the drawbacks. Drawbacks are like the 3.5 Flaws.
I like the Retraining rules too - don't think my DM will allow it though.
The Honor/Reputation/Fame rules are nice.
And here I am, waiting to hear more about the GM material.
I really want to know what they did with the Kingdom and Battle rules, and if there are such things as Allegiance, Taint, and so on.
I'm pretty excited about the rules for making structures and organizations. One of my Rise of the Runelords players wants to found a temple of Sarenrae in Magnimar, so these rules, the players own desires, and the Dawn of the Scarlet Sun module are all coming together in a perfect storm of new features and content.
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This book is definitely 80% DM & 20% player material. I would have liked alittle more player material maybe such things as Ritual Magic, etc.
The new traits are very nice - so are the drawbacks. Drawbacks are like the 3.5 Flaws.
I like the Retraining rules too - don't think my DM will allow it though.
The Honor/Reputation/Fame rules are nice.
Looks at Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. Then looks at GameMastery Guide and Bestiaries.
I think one more mostly GM book won't hurt anyone. :)
And here I am, waiting to hear more about the GM material.
I really want to know what they did with the Kingdom and Battle rules, and if there are such things as Allegiance, Taint, and so on.
Ask questions and you'll get answers!
There are Diplomatic Edicts in the Kingdom Building section, which allows you to found embassies in other kingdoms. It is a fairly in-depth subsystem, as a matter of fact.
Nothing like the old Taint system in this book.
Mass Combat rules are a bit of a toss up; they work, but they don't make a whole lot of sense. There is a lot of room for 3PP to expand and clarify that section.
Kingdom Building looks amazing; it was cleaned up a lot and improved massively.
The Humans go as young as 8 using the system.A Game of Thrones: Toddler Years. Coming soon on HBO.
That's Brillant.
How exactly do Viceroys work? Someone mentioned there being rules for having vassal lords that govern over semi-autonomous kingdoms, but are still under the command of the overlord.
Is a viceroy basically a ruler who has his own court with his own general, marshal, councilor, and so on, or is it another position within the court of the supreme ruler?
How exactly do Viceroys work? Someone mentioned there being rules for having vassal lords that govern over semi-autonomous kingdoms, but are still under the command of the overlord.
Is a viceroy basically a ruler who has his own court with his own general, marshal, councilor, and so on, or is it another position within the court of the supreme ruler?
Viceroys add half of their Intelligence or Wisdom to the kingdom's economy checks. Viceroys can occupy two Leadership positions; one in your kingdom and one in the vassal state / colony/ subjugated kingdom. The vassal must spend one week for each of his Leadership roles.
From reading the rules, it looks like a vassal / colony / etc. doesn't actually add its statistics to your kingdom's; its size does not impact your size, its modifiers don't give you bonuses, and so forth. I could be wrong, as the rules imply that the vassal is autonomous, but it never mentions whether or not you still get the kingdom's bonuses. The Leadership position itself implies that you should have one Viceroy per vassal you possess, but it doesn't say whether or not this is case, or if the bonuses stack for having multiple Viceroys.
The Viceroy can take whatever Leadership position he wants in his vassal's government, however. He can be the ruler. He can be the Treasurer. Doesn't really matter, but if he's absent the vassal state is automatically penalized as if it had no ruler.
But are there any real effects of vassal status? I would assume the overlord could use the armies of all his vassals and would in turn be expected to do use his own (and those of other vassals) to protect them against attacks.
But is there any direct economical impact in the rules, like tribute payments in the form of special tax edicts, or any modifiers to Loyalty or Stability at all?
That would sound like something that could really use some homebrew expansions.
But are there any real effects of vassal status? I would assume the overlord could use the armies of all his vassals and would in turn be expected to do use his own (and those of other vassals) to protect them against attacks.
But is there any direct economical impact in the rules, like tribute payments in the form of special tax edicts, or any modifiers to Loyalty or Stability at all?That would sound like something that could really use some homebrew expansions.
A real answer would take me a few paragraphs to write, and I'm in the middle of designing a custom kingdom building character sheet at the moment. :)
This answer will have to suffice; the Vassalage Edict rules are heavily connected to the Diplomatic Edict rules, which answer a lot of your questions.
Young Characters starting Ages
Dwarf: 20
Elf: 55
Gnome: 20
Halfling: 10
Half-Elf: 10
Half-Orc: 7
Human: 8Formula is basicially: (Start Age/2) and round up
This is going to throw folks trying to rationalize the childhoods of the longer lived humanoid races for a loop. If a 55 year old elf is truly equivalent mentally and physically to an 8 year old human, that is a painfully slow childhood by non-elven standards. That raises the question of whether the proportionality should be maintained all the way down (in which case elves would spend their first decade or more in diapers, unable to walk or talk) or whether their is a major slowdown after an initial spurt (in which case elves would spend most of their first 55 years as the equivalent of 7 year old humsns).
Looks at Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. Then looks at GameMastery Guide and Bestiaries.
I think one more mostly GM book won't hurt anyone. :)
But it has been soooooooooooooo long since those other Ultimate player books Haha
I guess I will have to wait till "Ultimate Mind Magic" comes out :)
While I don't know what the Diplomatic edicts are exactly, it does indeed pretty much answer what I wanted to know right know. So having a kingdom as a vassal gives you a much stronger positions in making demands and dictating conditions. That's good enough for now.
Also would fit me quite well for my plan to customize the rules for a world ruled by small autonomous chiefs who create semi-permanent alliances to form small kingdoms.
How much did the list of buildings for cities in the kingdom change? Many new options or just a few?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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As to why bother with vassalage, the answer is that when you create a vassal you can also automatically establish an Embassy, Treaty, or Alliance with them. If you elect one of the latter two, then you get 10% of their Economy as a bonus to your Economy (if you choose a fair and balanced treaty), or you get 15% and they get 5% (if you choose an unfair and unbalanced treaty). Making a fair treaty earns you a bonus to Fame and an unfair treaty gives you a bonus to Infamy.
As to whether you can have more than one Viceroy, that's a good question. I think the answer is no - you have one person per kingdom leadership post, and one post per kingdom. So can you have more than one vassal state at a time? You could, and the Viceroy would have to spend time managing each one. I think it's fair to allow other kingdom leaders to serve as "acting viceroy" in a vassal state, to avoid one person having to travel hither and yon every month.
Of course, you can always simply negotiate (or force) a treaty or alliance on another country by the power of diplomacy (friendly using Diplomacy and Fame or coercive using Intimidate and Infamy) or defeat in battle, which makes them your vassals even if they are not technically your VASSALS.
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This book is definitely 80% DM & 20% player material. I would have liked alittle more player material maybe such things as Ritual Magic, etc.
The new traits are very nice - so are the drawbacks. Drawbacks are like the 3.5 Flaws.
I like the Retraining rules too - don't think my DM will allow it though.
The Honor/Reputation/Fame rules are nice.
Looks at Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. Then looks at GameMastery Guide and Bestiaries.
I think one more mostly GM book won't hurt anyone. :)
But, those books you mentioned are all GM books. APG, UM, and UC are all GM books as much as they are player book because you are expanding options for both people. Gamemastery Guide is a purely GM book, and while it is good, I wonder if it's sold nearly as well...
Also, UE and NPCX are also GM books.
Looks at Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. Then looks at GameMastery Guide and Bestiaries.I think one more mostly GM book won't hurt anyone. :)
But it has been soooooooooooooo long since those other Ultimate player books Haha
I guess I will have to wait till "Ultimate Mind Magic" comes out :)
The last book to come out was in November of last year. That was the NPC Codex. Before those two, we had Ultimate Equipment, which is both a player and a GM book. Before that book, we had the Advanced Race Guide, which is about 75% / 25% in the player's favor (only Chapter 4 is truly GM-only material).
Back in 2011, we had Bestiary 3 in November, which is 95% - 5% a GM book, and then two Ultimate books; Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat. They follow the same basic breakdown between GM and player material.
So yeah, its sort of refreshing to get a GM-focused product earlier than November for once. :) That said, I won't deny the argument that GMs can make use of any player options that come out in their world as well, but most GMs that I know (myself included) only dip into the realm of player options when they are crafting specific villains to face; a Core Rulebook rogue suffices for most GMs when throwing an NPC squad of bandits at a group of players.
But don't you worry! Mythic Adventures will be out soon enough, and so far that one looks to be a pretty evenly split product. It will also be interesting to see if there will be four Hardcovers this year. In 2012, the "fourth" book was Rise of the Runelords and in 2011, it was the Inner Sea Primer. I'm crossing my fingers for both Bestiary 4 and NPC Codex II this year, but it doesn't seem very likely.
I think the 4th hardcover is Emerald Spire.
My Goblinworks thing has Emerald Spire with an estimated shipping time of roughly July 2014. Since Jason and James have both been briefly mentioning that they're working on their Emerald Spire levels, we're probably not going to see it this year.
I'm crossing my fingers for both Bestiary 4 and NPC Codex II this year, but it doesn't seem very likely.Um they announced Bestiary 4 like a week ago. Supposedly a November/December release of this year.
Its actually set for October at the moment, but that could always change. The only book that's ever really set in stone is the GenCon release for obvious reasons.
Regardless, I'm aware of what they announced. (Believe me, having ordered the Reaper Miniatures Cthulhu model from the Kickstarter, I freaked out at the chance to actually have it represent something in a Pathfinder game at some point in the future.)
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Young Characters starting Ages
Dwarf: 20
Elf: 55
Gnome: 20
Halfling: 10
Half-Elf: 10
Half-Orc: 7
Human: 8Formula is basicially: (Start Age/2) and round up
This is going to throw folks trying to rationalize the childhoods of the longer lived humanoid races for a loop. If a 55 year old elf is truly equivalent mentally and physically to an 8 year old human, that is a painfully slow childhood by non-elven standards. That raises the question of whether the proportionality should be maintained all the way down (in which case elves would spend their first decade or more in diapers, unable to walk or talk) or whether their is a major slowdown after an initial spurt (in which case elves would spend most of their first 55 years as the equivalent of 7 year old humsns).
Or worse: imagine spending a couple of decades with a teenager...
Out of sympathy for all of the fictional parents in my world, I generally assume that even the longest lived of races still matures almost as fast as humans. The rest of the time is spend as young adult, until they finally start the aging decay process.
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No offense, the mods really need to start being more vigilant in the core book threads and start deleting junk posts like "OMG GIMME PDF NAO" or "PAIZO GIVE ME THIS BOOK I'M DYING WITHOUT IT". They really junk up a thread before the book's release.
Anyway, from what I'm reading this book will make a good addition to my group. The rules for building a wizard's tower or mages guild will definitely interest one person at least.
YAY! My download is here! Time to dig in.
Soooo, a purty face heps?
The kingdom building rules were well clarified. The downtime activities are great for players who usually can't think of what to do in downtime, and great inspiration for those who do. The big loss IMO are the mass combat rules which would really be integral to any actual kingdom building. The part that I feel is just really missing are any rules having to do with recruiting, what you can recruit, both race and levels of said recruits. Also that their might be a limit on said recruits. In kingmaker I didn't mind as that was an addendum system at the time, but with a core book being added with these rules, I think it falls a bit flat.
I'm a bit confused about the conflict points during background generation (which I think is my favourite section, actually).
I understand that CP increase your place on the alignment track, but I can't figure out which track to use: the Law/Chaos or Good/Evil. It seems that the CP are all lumped in together...it can't be that you just evenly split them, or you'd never get mixes from the ends of the tracks (LE, CG, for example).
My only thought is that the player simply decides where to "spend" the CP on the alignment tracks. "Oh...I picked up 3 CP here...okay, I'll spend them on Law/Chaos, which'll push me from LG to NG" ...or..."Oh, I picked up 3 CP here...okay, I'll spend them on Good/Evil, which'll push me from LG to LN".
I'm quite happy with that, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing some vital step (which I suspect I might be!).
... a comment to the staff in general that if you are relying upon the FAQ to make common rulings and suggestions known to ALL players, then you need to advertise the FAQ's existence much more broadly and make it more accessible. As it is, most people probably think that link to "Help/FAQ" is the SITE FAQ only, not the rules FAQ, and the rules FAQ links are tiny and not front and center.
I quoted and elaborated on this over on the Website Feedback forum. I would welcome anyone chiming in over there.
It'll give me something to watch while I wait for this PDF to go on sale...
Any Drawbacks examples?
Sorry if I missed some.
Any Drawbacks examples?
Sorry if I missed some.
Paranoid: The DC to grant you bonuses via the aid another action increases to 15.