Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)
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Where the dungeon ends, another adventure begins! Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign takes you on a guided tour through the parts of the game that happen between monster attacks and quests for ancient artifacts. As some of the most powerful and prestigious heroes around, do your player characters want to build up a kingdom of their own, or lead an army against a neighboring nation? Perhaps they want to start a business, craft magic items, or embark on a quest that will come to define them. Whether you're looking for help generating a young character or seeking ways to challenge adventurers who've grown bored of fighting monsters one-on-one, this book has everything you need!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign includes:

  • A detailed guide to generating character backstories, including a new system for random character generation and traits and drawbacks to meld your background with your statistics.
  • Story feats that increase in power as you achieve key goals, making quests and crusades more than just flavor!
  • A complete downtime rules system to flesh out those parts of a PC's life that take place between adventures, such as running a business, gaining power and influence in a community, or starting a magical academy.
  • New rules for retraining and switching classes; honor, reputation, and fame; young characters; investment; magic item creation; and other key adventuring topics.
  • Rules for building up a kingdom, including construction and technological advancements, governing your people, and more.
  • Mass combat rules to help you lead clashing armies and conduct epic battles in a fun and efficient manner—without losing sight of the PCs themselves.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-498-6

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Ultimate Campaign Review

4/5

My first impressions of Ultimate Campaign were pretty positive, and now that I've had time to read through the whole thing, I can honestly say that this is a must-have for any campaign that goes beyond the scope of the dungeon crawl. If you're looking for guidelines and rules for all the things that happen outside the dungeon itself, this book is an incredible buy.

Full review at www.outsydergaming.com.


Ring Side Report-A Review of Ultimate Campaign

4/5

Originally posted at www.throatpunchgames.com, a new idea everyday!

Book- Ultimate Campaign

Publisher-Paizo

Price – ~$40

TL;DR- Tables and Rules Everywhere!-83%

Basics- Ultimate Campaign focuses on the rules around the rest of the Pathfinder RPG. This book is more "meta" then most books. The book starts with a chapter on how to make characters; not how to make stats, but how to build a story into your characters. Next the book gives a chapter on what you can do in your down time with ideas ranging from building businesses to creating organizations. After that is a chapter on different rules systems covering ideas such as bargaining to taxation in your game. The final chapter is how to build a kingdom and mass combat.

Mechanics or “Crunch”-This book is crunch-tastic! If you want rules regarding all the extra stuff in your game, this is it. Want rules for an honor system? It's here. Want to start a kingdom? There is a whole chapter on how to do the rules for it. It covers a lot of ground. Some of these rules are kind of reprints as these rules were covered in different adventure paths, but that's not necessarily bad as the rules have gotten a polish since their last printing. 5/5

Story or “Fluff”-This section might not fit the best here. This book sets out to be a rules book. It's pretty system neutral as you're just running the Pathfinder/3.5 system somewhere and these rules cover the "in between" stuff. You don't need a lot of story. However chapter one is how to build a character. It does an excellent job of describing what stuff you could include in your character. If you're George R.R. Martin, you don't need this. However, I have a friend who loves Pathfinder, but when presented with character generation, he freezes. This chapter gives some good fluff for your characters and suggests traits for you to take for all the fluff. Heck, if you want to completely randomize your PCs, this chapter gives tables and tables of random stuff to make your new PC. Where the fluff is needed, it's done well, but don't expect it throughout the book. 4/5

Execution-This book is the standard Paizo quality. The book is a nice hard cover with well put together pages. The layout lacks a bit. There are pages after pages of tables or rules or columns of text. Nothing brakes up much of what you're reading, so it gets a little boring. It's important rules, if you want them, but they get very dry, very quick. 3.5/5

Final Thoughts-Unlike a base book, this is a one copy at the table max book. This is something you might want to get, skim through, and then give to your GM while telling him which of these rules you want in the game. It's a repeat of many of the rules systems explored in the adventure paths, which isn't bad because the rules do get a little touch up here and there. However, if you want a dungeon crawling game where you find some monsters, kill them, and take gear, this isn't for you. If you want to do some crazy game where you explore a mist filled continent via random hex crawl where you establish a kingdom while maintaining your family's honor, waging a war for the throne, marrying into different family lines, and dealing with the crushing shame of your fathers half fiend lineage, then YES you will need this book. 83%


Excellent product adaptable to other games

4/5

After thumbing through the book I decided to pick it up. I think the systems in the book are really interesting and I'm actually adapting them to my 4e game.

The book is chock full of fluffy stuff but stuff tied with mechanics so as a DM you get an idea of what type of rewards to apply to a player when they have a background or have own a business. The mass combat section is pretty neat as well, and with a little tweaking I can adapt that as well.


Fairly good.

3/5

This is a pretty decent fluff book. However, I wish the price was $29.99 instead. The paper quality used is substantially weaker than previous books. There are useful things to be found within for the GM who is not too busy to come up with himself or herself but nothing is overwhelming in here. Reminds me of the numerous volumes Wotc produced for 4E.


Ultimate Campaign Under Review!

5/5

This is definitely a homerun for Paizo. This is definitely one of their best products they have put out in a while. I actually gave it 4.5 out of 5 stars, but it is still good enough to give it 5 here.

Read my complete review HERE at Skyland Games.


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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Odraude wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Reading through "rooms and teams" under downtime. It's basically how to build buildings and organizations. It IS reminiscent of the Stronghold Builder's Guide system, but more streamlined, I think.

The book is a LOT more player oriented than I was hoping for, which is what my earlier post alluded to, but I know for sales books kind of have to be. I still want how tos on worldbuilding I don't think we'll ever get. But the actual content of the book is interesting so far and useful to players and GMs alike. Still of course scanning for the most part. Hard for me to focus on stuff printed on a screen.

I feel it definitely has some good GM stuff in there. Though Gamemastery Guide had some good articles about Worldbuilding, although I wonder if it sold well... I myself rarely crack it open, as useful as it is.

I think what I really want is like an "Advanced GMG" that goes more into depth than what the GMG brushed upon.

But don't get me wrong, there is some really, really neat and useful stuff in Ultimate Campaign, and stuff I will use as a GM. I think somehow I had just set my expectations off--probably all due to my own misconceptions--and have to adjust.

Contributor

I'm about 1/3 of the way through Chapter One. Jason wasn't kidding; the life events art for the Iconics in this chapter are FABULOUS.

So far, I've seen one for what looks like Lem and one who is definitely Seelah. If you know Seelah's backstory, its somewhat tragic.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I normally can give or take art but the art for this book in general is generally amazing.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Does the cost of retraining hit points seem cheap to anyone else?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Still pending :'(


Steve Geddes wrote:
Does the cost of retraining hit points seem cheap to anyone else?

Not really, since you only increase it by one.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ah. I dont read PDFs very well, sadly. I thought you could just keep retraining it until you reached your maximum.

Silver Crusade

Got access to my pdf today, it seems that they have fixed all my problems with the kingdom and mass combat rules from Kingmaker.

Contributor

So the Background system that lets you randomly generate your alignment allows one of your "major conflicts" to be that you are a mass murderer of children or young people. Way to not let cultural taboos censor your printing, Paizo!

Contributor

So the old 3.5 Flaws make a comeback. Sort of. There are a list of Drawbacks that you can get; you can select 1 drawback in order to gain 3 starting traits instead of 2. Pretty nifty, and the drawbacks that are presented are varied and make a lot of sense. Haven't seen at the mechanics of them yet, however.


Still.....

....denied.....

thE PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'MON!!!!!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
So the old 3.5 Flaws make a comeback. Sort of. There are a list of Drawbacks that you can get; you can select 1 drawback in order to gain 3 starting traits instead of 2. Pretty nifty, and the drawbacks that are presented are varied and make a lot of sense. Haven't seen at the mechanics of them yet, however.

Yeah, I like how the drawbacks are more personality based and not physical (lame, blindness). Much more managable and less min-max-y


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Got access to my pdf today, it seems that they have fixed all my problems with the kingdom and mass combat rules from Kingmaker.

Care to elaborate :)


Odraude wrote:

The Kingdom Building rules... holy crap. It's like you're playing Civ: The RPG. They have A LOT of optional stuff like Embassies, Trade Routes, Declaring Independence, and Combining Vassals into a kingdom. The 4x gamer in me is crying tears of joy.

Eeeeh! So looking forward to this!

But now you get nothing for selling magic items? I know I'll be the minority here, but I wish they'd just followed what Jon Brazer Enterprises suggested in their book and just reduced how many BPs you got for them. That said, nothing's stopping me from doing just that in a home campaign; and for those of you who wanted the change they made, congratulations.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
So the Background system that lets you randomly generate your alignment allows one of your "major conflicts" to be that you are a mass murderer of children or young people. Way to not let cultural taboos censor your printing, Paizo!

Even the younglings!


Eric Hinkle wrote:
Odraude wrote:

The Kingdom Building rules... holy crap. It's like you're playing Civ: The RPG. They have A LOT of optional stuff like Embassies, Trade Routes, Declaring Independence, and Combining Vassals into a kingdom. The 4x gamer in me is crying tears of joy.

Eeeeh! So looking forward to this!

But now you get nothing for selling magic items? I know I'll be the minority here, but I wish they'd just followed what Jon Brazer Enterprises suggested in their book and just reduced how many BPs you got for them. That said, nothing's stopping me from doing just that in a home campaign; and for those of you who wanted the change they made, congratulations.

Well, you CAN buy those items and then cash them in for BP, but the return won't be nearly as economically breaking as before. Admittedly, you are better off just putting money in.

One thing I like about the Kingdom Building rules is that they give you ideas on how to start a kingdom. Whether it's charters, vassals, fiefdoms... it's all there! My only wish in this book was that there was a rule for making navies. I'm sure I could crib the army rules for myself.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Odraude wrote:

The Kingdom Building rules... holy crap. It's like you're playing Civ: The RPG. They have A LOT of optional stuff like Embassies, Trade Routes, Declaring Independence, and Combining Vassals into a kingdom. The 4x gamer in me is crying tears of joy.

Eeeeh! So looking forward to this!

But now you get nothing for selling magic items? I know I'll be the minority here, but I wish they'd just followed what Jon Brazer Enterprises suggested in their book and just reduced how many BPs you got for them. That said, nothing's stopping me from doing just that in a home campaign; and for those of you who wanted the change they made, congratulations.

The basic principle at work is that the magic item economy isn't about crafters working for you and selling stuff to profit the kingdom. It's about crafters working for themselves. They sell the items and they keep the money, which they then invest in crafting more things. The items are there for anyone to buy if they want them, but they are now a feature of the cities where they exist rather than an engine to profit the kingdom.

In my experience running Kingmaker for 3 years, even having reduced the amount of BP significantly that PCs earned from magic item buildings, those magic item buildings still dwarfed the rest of the economy.

Take just one Waterfront, for example (2 minor, 1 medium, 1 major item, and a +4 Economy bonus, though it hardly mattered). In the original rules, one major item was worth 15 BP. Given that you could rapidly get to the point where actual Economy checks were a formality, just trying to avoid a natural 1, numerical bonuses to Economy checks essentially just meant 1/5 of a BP per +1. At that rate, selling a single major magic item was effectively a +75 bonus to Economy. The BP revenue from selling just two major items added up to more than the entire rest of the kingdom's non-magic-item economy combined. And then we kept rolling for the rest of the items.

Even reducing the BP to a third the original level (or to make it round BP numbers, say 1 BP for minor, 3 BP for medium, 5 BP for major), each major item is effectively a +25 bonus to Economy. It reduces the payoff vs. the original rules, true, but it just curbs the problem, not fixes it. It's still vastly to your advantage to farm item-producing buildings to build your treasury. Even with minor items and buildings, and even with a reduced payoff for selling items, why build a Shop for 8 BP (+1 Economy) when you can build a Shrine for 8 BP (+1 Loyalty, -1 Unrest, and a minor item, which if it can be sold for 1 BP is pretty close in value to a +5 bonus to Economy)?

Decoupling the magic item economy from the rest of your economy allows it to operate more organically. Magic items are no longer drivers of your economy. Instead, they become background flavor and potential resources to access. Want to know what items are available in a city? Here you go! Want to have magic shops? Go for it! Have casters in your kingdom making and selling their magic items. Just know that it's not going to make you an overnight economic superpower.

Most item-producing buildings do provide some bonus to Economy, so it's not like these buildings have no effect on your kingdom's ability to grow its treasury. It's just that they now don't have a crazily disproportionate effect on your economy. Now you build a Caster's Tower or a Temple because you WANT to build a Caster's Tower or a Temple, not because it's the only sane rational choice if you want to maximize the BP your kingdom generates.

As an aside, I always wondered who was buying all this stuff. I mean, what is the implied economy where wandering adventurers are just cruising through your towns EVERY MONTH scooping up medium and major magic items that, for most of their careers, your player characters themselves couldn't afford to buy, and they're supposed to be the rulers of the kingdom! Why don't these nameless, faceless NPCs just kick the PCs out of the palace and take over, if they have that much money to toss around every month? :)

TL;DR - In my experience, even reducing the BP takeaway from magic item buildings didn't really solve the problem of item farming as an optimal strategy for kingdom-building. My solution in this chapter was to separate them completely. Not everybody will agree that's the best solution, but that was my thinking anyway.

Grand Lodge

That makes entirely too much sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain the rationale, Jason! This is the kind of insight that I love to come across in rule design.


We lowered our bp's from selling to 1/2/3, but we also raised our economy profit to economy check divided by two. Honestly I don't understand how you finish the campaign with some sort of boost to economy. It certainly would make you kingdom seem squalid and useless.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm a subscriber, and I'm still waiting. Which is OK. I'm typing this between grading papers. I just finished jury duty and I'm trying to force my seniors to graduate. Some of them are resisting. So, next week would be good for me :)

Does sound nice though. And I would probably be playing hooky and reading it... so definitely next week. Or later in the week... I'm weakening...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Nelson wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
It was a big loophole in Kingmaker, where savvy players exploited that the best way to make endless BP was to build lots of magic item generating buildings, which spiraled the economy completely out of control and made most of the checks and balances of the system obsolete. Paizo got a lot of feedback about that, so I'd probably think that they worked out those kinks. I just wanted to ask if you could confirm, but no problem if you never heard of the issue before. I'll just wait for someone who played Kingmaker and noticed those problems. :)

In the revised kingdom-building rules, selling magic items that your buildings produce gives the kingdom no BP.

None.

All selling a magic item does is clear the item slot for you to generate a new/different item that someone could buy. You can buy an item with your own cash and donate it to the kingdom for BP, which is no different from donating any other valuable property to the kingdom for BP.

Excellent! Thanks, Jason! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Nelson wrote:
As an aside, I always wondered who was buying all this stuff. I mean, what is the implied economy where wandering adventurers are just cruising through your towns EVERY MONTH scooping up medium and major magic items that, for most of their careers, your player characters themselves couldn't afford to buy, and they're supposed to be the rulers of the kingdom! Why don't these nameless, faceless NPCs just kick the PCs out of the palace and take over, if they have that much money to toss around every month? :)

Yeah, that was one of the things which broke my immersion like a dry twig. Thank you for taking care of that. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Welp, reading all this makes me so sadpanda about having to quit the RPG line subscription due to shipping costs... Well, there's always the PDF next week.


I just have a copy reserved at my local game-store but... ARGH how I wish I had the PDF right now to maybe see what could already be useful for tomorrow's session.
I hope I get it before next week's session.

Anybody going to do an indepth review soon?

Silver Crusade

Ordereded and waitan.


Aside from all the bits covered in the above list of features, are there any chapters beyond 4? what sort of stuff is in those? don't need any specifics but the official blurb states: "AND MUCH, MUCH MORE!"
What is included in that?

Any features we haven't really heard about yet?


Been digging through my PDF copy of the book and it's not bad, gonna be a hit or miss sort of book though. For some gamers this is going to be a fantastic book for others it's going to be pretty meh. Me I'm loving what I'm seeing but there are a couple of guys in my group that I know are going to see it as a waste of their money.

Couple of areas seem pretty lack luster though. The Magic item creation section for example seems to be mostly about "these are the reasons your DM is going to tell you NO"

though I do like the list of reagents.

Contributor

Mr.Dragon wrote:

Aside from all the bits covered in the above list of features, are there any chapters beyond 4? what sort of stuff is in those? don't need any specifics but the official blurb states: "AND MUCH, MUCH MORE!"

What is included in that?

Any features we haven't really heard about yet?

There are a LOT of little changes to the Kingdom Building rules. For example:

There are three new Leadership Roles, plus the Royal Assassin was renamed the "Royal Enforcer" so its less ... questionable for Good kingdoms. The new roles are all variant Rulers.

Consort is a Ruler's spouse if said spouse does not have the same noble rank as the Ruler. For example, if a merchant becomes ruler and marries just about anyone else, you have two Rulers. However, if a Prince marries a merchant, the merchant spouse is considered a consort because she does not match the ruler's noble rank.

Heir is exactly what it sounds like; it is the Ruler's eldest son / daughter. Both the Consort and Heir can rule a kingdom in its Ruler's absence, but they have to make Loyalty checks to prevent unrest from accumulating and they only add half of their Charisma to the kingdom's statistics.

Viceroy is part of the new Optional Vassal rules; basically, you can pronounce an edict to split a territory you control into its own subkingdom. I haven't read much about it, but it looks like the new kingdom still pays texts to you and whatnot, but it has its own government, with the Viceroy occupying any one Leadership Role of his choosing. The Viceroy is basically the founding Kingdom's voice in the vassal / colony / whatever, and he breaks the normal rules that says you cannot have one person in two Leadership roles.

Rulers got retooled slightly. Now they add their Charisma to one kingdom statistic of their choice, then to two when the kingdom's size reaches 26, and finally all three when the kingdom's size reaches 101 or more. There is also a clause that says a Ruler with the Leadership feat adds "the bonuses from this feat" to all statistics he/she modifies, but after overlooking the Leadership feat, I'm not 100% sure what that entry is referring to.

There are a TON of new buildings and the book gives a ton of units for army building.

Liberty's Edge

Greylurker wrote:

The Magic item creation section for example seems to be mostly about "these are the reasons your DM is going to tell you NO"

You are very close to selling me on it now.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

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C'MON!!!!


patient young grasshopper
Wait until sundown and it may be there


Okay, now tell us when the shipping crew STARTS working! ^.^


They started at the time of the rising sun.

Silver Crusade

Tsuji-Giri wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Got access to my pdf today, it seems that they have fixed all my problems with the kingdom and mass combat rules from Kingmaker.
Care to elaborate :)

Well Jason Nelson explained what why the changed the magic item economy, I don't really have anything to add here. What the book adds is some new buildings, and they even added additional pictures for them (to represent them on the city grid). I have to read the whole rules again, but since they fixed the most annoying part....

The changed the mass combat rules a bit, added battlefield conditions (like fog, darkness or a sandstorm) and boons (special abilities based on the commander of your army). Army resources (healing potions, magic weapons...) no scale based on the size of your army, so equipping your 1 golem army with a magic weapon is cheaper, than equipping 2000 human soldiers.
Armies can now have a lot more special abilities, a monk army could have a Ki Pool and a paladin army could use smite evil.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
DM Azure_Zero wrote:

patient young grasshopper

Wait until sundown and it may be there

Basically what he said unfortunately. Even assuming they start shipping out orders at 7 or 8 that means that they would have only been at handling orders for about an hour or so thus far today.


That and there is a thirst of many, but only one well


DM Azure_Zero wrote:
That and there is a thirst of many, but only one well

The willow bends to reach the stream. And yet, do crabs?


Aeshuura wrote:
That makes entirely too much sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain the rationale, Jason! This is the kind of insight that I love to come across in rule design.

What he said. Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed answer.

Though I always thought that the magic items were being sold off to merchants who were taking them elsewhere (outside your kingdom) for well-heeled patrons elsewhere who wanted them.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

There are a LOT of little changes to the Kingdom Building rules. For example:

There are three new Leadership Roles, plus the Royal Assassin was renamed the "Royal Enforcer" so its less ... questionable for Good kingdoms. The new roles are all variant Rulers.

Consort is a Ruler's spouse if said spouse does not have the same noble rank as the Ruler. For example, if a merchant becomes ruler and marries just about anyone else, you have two Rulers. However, if a Prince marries a merchant, the merchant spouse is considered a consort because she does not match the ruler's noble rank.

Heir is exactly what it sounds like; it is the Ruler's eldest son / daughter. Both the Consort and Heir can rule a kingdom in its Ruler's absence, but they have to make Loyalty checks to prevent unrest from accumulating and they only add half of their Charisma to the kingdom's statistics.

Viceroy is part of the new Optional Vassal rules; basically, you can pronounce an edict to split a territory you control into its own subkingdom. I haven't read much about it, but it looks like the new kingdom still pays texts to you and whatnot, but it has its own government, with the Viceroy occupying any one Leadership Role of his choosing. The Viceroy is basically the founding Kingdom's voice in the vassal / colony / whatever, and he breaks the normal rules that says you cannot have one person in two Leadership roles.

Rulers got retooled slightly. Now they add their Charisma to one kingdom statistic of their choice, then to two when the kingdom's size reaches 26, and finally all three when the kingdom's size reaches 101 or more. There is also a clause that says a Ruler with the Leadership feat adds "the bonuses from this...

Thanks for the wonderful reply, eventhough it didn't really answer my question.

I'm looking forward to having this level of detail available for my players to also interact with kingdoms even if they are most likely not going to be ruling their own (any time soon atleast).


Alexander Augunas wrote:


There are a LOT of little changes to the Kingdom Building rules. For example:

There are three new Leadership Roles, plus the Royal Assassin was renamed the "Royal Enforcer" so its less ... questionable for Good kingdoms. The new roles are all variant Rulers.

I always saw that one as "Royal Champion", as in the guy who dealt with anyone who thought they could stick their +1 sword of usurpation into the ruler. Given what the culture(s) of Brevoy, the River Kingdoms, and the Aldori Swordlords are like, it seemed to fit better.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Consort is a Ruler's spouse if said spouse does not have the same noble rank as the Ruler. For example, if a merchant becomes ruler and marries just about anyone else, you have two Rulers. However, if a Prince marries a merchant, the merchant spouse is considered a consort because she does not match the ruler's noble rank.

Heir is exactly what it sounds like; it is the Ruler's eldest son / daughter. Both the Consort and Heir can rule a kingdom in its Ruler's absence, but they have to make Loyalty checks to prevent unrest from accumulating and they only add half of their Charisma to the kingdom's statistics.

Having just read a history book that detailed why the Ottoman Turks stopped allowing the sultan to have an official wife and heir (to cut down on the palace backstabbing), these new roles intrigue me no end with the potential for mischief they offer. Just imagine your ruler announcing that he (or she) is looking for a consort, and the long, long line of wanna-be royals showing up at the front gate.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Viceroy is part of the new Optional Vassal rules; basically, you can pronounce an edict to split a territory you control into its own subkingdom. I haven't read much about it, but it looks like the new kingdom still pays texts to you and whatnot, but it has its own government, with the Viceroy occupying any one Leadership Role of his choosing. The Viceroy is basically the founding Kingdom's voice in the vassal / colony / whatever, and he breaks the normal rules that says you cannot have one person in two Leadership roles.

Rulers got retooled slightly. Now they add their Charisma to one kingdom statistic of their choice, then to two when the kingdom's size reaches 26, and finally all three when the kingdom's size reaches 101 or more.

The sound of all this is starting to make me drool. This book cannot hit the stores fast enough.


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Tsuji-Giri wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Got access to my pdf today, it seems that they have fixed all my problems with the kingdom and mass combat rules from Kingmaker.
Care to elaborate :)

Well Jason Nelson explained what why the changed the magic item economy, I don't really have anything to add here. What the book adds is some new buildings, and they even added additional pictures for them (to represent them on the city grid). I have to read the whole rules again, but since they fixed the most annoying part....

The changed the mass combat rules a bit, added battlefield conditions (like fog, darkness or a sandstorm) and boons (special abilities based on the commander of your army). Army resources (healing potions, magic weapons...) no scale based on the size of your army, so equipping your 1 golem army with a magic weapon is cheaper, than equipping 2000 human soldiers.
Armies can now have a lot more special abilities, a monk army could have a Ki Pool and a paladin army could use smite evil.

Everything I'm reading has me sold on this book!

Thanks for the quick response :)


Alexander Augunas wrote:

Heir is exactly what it sounds like; it is the Ruler's eldest son / daughter. Both the Consort and Heir can rule a kingdom in its Ruler's absence, but they have to make Loyalty checks to prevent unrest from accumulating and they only add half of their Charisma to the kingdom's statistics.

Viceroy is part of the new Optional Vassal rules; basically, you can pronounce an edict to split a territory you control into its own subkingdom. I haven't read much about it, but it looks like the new kingdom still pays texts to you and whatnot, but it has its own government, with the Viceroy occupying any one Leadership Role of his choosing. The Viceroy is basically the founding Kingdom's voice in the vassal / colony / whatever, and he breaks the normal rules that says you cannot have one person in two Leadership roles.

Great. I've been thinking about how to adept the system to my settings tribal societies, where the kings are mostly powerful warlords who have several smaller clans as more or less loyal allies. The Viceroy seems to be just the role for these minor chiefs and the heir rounds out this tribal "court" very well.

Eric Hinkle wrote:
I always saw that one as "Royal Champion", as in the guy who dealt with anyone who thought they could stick their +1 sword of usurpation into the ruler. Given what the culture(s) of Brevoy, the River Kingdoms, and the Aldori Swordlords are like, it seemed to fit better.

Using the Royal Enforcer as the Champion is a great idea. I think I'll probably use this as well.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Greylurker wrote:


Couple of areas seem pretty lack luster though. The Magic item creation section for example seems to be mostly about "these are the reasons your DM is going to tell you NO"

Oh please don’t say that, one if the biggest things I’ve been looking forward to is a more descriptive and clarified section on magic item creation.

I hope there is a more detailed list on what you can take a +5 DC on and more detailed explanation on how cooperative crafting works.

Instead of just “yes, you can work with another person to craft a magic item.”

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Does this book give us more information or expand upon the caravan rules presented in jade regent?


I don't think so, as those rules appeared in Ultimate Combat.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Azure_Zero wrote:
I don't think so, as those rules appeared in Ultimate Combat.

Those rules don't appear in UC as far as I remember all that it gives you is vehicle rules rather then the caravan and caravan travel system you get from jade regent.


No caravan rules.


Hobbun wrote:
Greylurker wrote:


Couple of areas seem pretty lack luster though. The Magic item creation section for example seems to be mostly about "these are the reasons your DM is going to tell you NO"

Oh please don’t say that, one if the biggest things I’ve been looking forward to is a more descriptive and clarified section on magic item creation.

I hope there is a more detailed list on what you can take a +5 DC on and more detailed explanation on how cooperative crafting works.

Instead of just “yes, you can work with another person to craft a magic item.”

Exactly the same thing I was hoping for.

We didn't get that.

Mostly it's advice about dealing with players having the ability to make their own stuff; dealing with Game breaking item ideas (EX: Heavy Mace with continual True Strike for 2000gp), little more on adding to an item or changing an item's type. How item creation changes character's "Wealth by level"

The only part in that section that really enriches item creation is the bit on Components for Item creation and that's really more a "fill-in-the-blank" storytelling adjustment to change item costs you 750gp to make into item requires 500 gp of Dragon's heartblood and 250gp of Mithral Crystals.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sob... Why must I stay in pending limbo?... sob... sob... All I want is to read my shiny pdf

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lazaro wrote:
Sob... Why must I stay in pending limbo?... sob... sob... All I want is to read my shiny pdf

*Joins sobbing* This wait is killing me.

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