Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign (OGL)
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Where the dungeon ends, another adventure begins! Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign takes you on a guided tour through the parts of the game that happen between monster attacks and quests for ancient artifacts. As some of the most powerful and prestigious heroes around, do your player characters want to build up a kingdom of their own, or lead an army against a neighboring nation? Perhaps they want to start a business, craft magic items, or embark on a quest that will come to define them. Whether you're looking for help generating a young character or seeking ways to challenge adventurers who've grown bored of fighting monsters one-on-one, this book has everything you need!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign includes:

  • A detailed guide to generating character backstories, including a new system for random character generation and traits and drawbacks to meld your background with your statistics.
  • Story feats that increase in power as you achieve key goals, making quests and crusades more than just flavor!
  • A complete downtime rules system to flesh out those parts of a PC's life that take place between adventures, such as running a business, gaining power and influence in a community, or starting a magical academy.
  • New rules for retraining and switching classes; honor, reputation, and fame; young characters; investment; magic item creation; and other key adventuring topics.
  • Rules for building up a kingdom, including construction and technological advancements, governing your people, and more.
  • Mass combat rules to help you lead clashing armies and conduct epic battles in a fun and efficient manner—without losing sight of the PCs themselves.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-498-6

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Ultimate Campaign Review

4/5

My first impressions of Ultimate Campaign were pretty positive, and now that I've had time to read through the whole thing, I can honestly say that this is a must-have for any campaign that goes beyond the scope of the dungeon crawl. If you're looking for guidelines and rules for all the things that happen outside the dungeon itself, this book is an incredible buy.

Full review at www.outsydergaming.com.


Ring Side Report-A Review of Ultimate Campaign

4/5

Originally posted at www.throatpunchgames.com, a new idea everyday!

Book- Ultimate Campaign

Publisher-Paizo

Price – ~$40

TL;DR- Tables and Rules Everywhere!-83%

Basics- Ultimate Campaign focuses on the rules around the rest of the Pathfinder RPG. This book is more "meta" then most books. The book starts with a chapter on how to make characters; not how to make stats, but how to build a story into your characters. Next the book gives a chapter on what you can do in your down time with ideas ranging from building businesses to creating organizations. After that is a chapter on different rules systems covering ideas such as bargaining to taxation in your game. The final chapter is how to build a kingdom and mass combat.

Mechanics or “Crunch”-This book is crunch-tastic! If you want rules regarding all the extra stuff in your game, this is it. Want rules for an honor system? It's here. Want to start a kingdom? There is a whole chapter on how to do the rules for it. It covers a lot of ground. Some of these rules are kind of reprints as these rules were covered in different adventure paths, but that's not necessarily bad as the rules have gotten a polish since their last printing. 5/5

Story or “Fluff”-This section might not fit the best here. This book sets out to be a rules book. It's pretty system neutral as you're just running the Pathfinder/3.5 system somewhere and these rules cover the "in between" stuff. You don't need a lot of story. However chapter one is how to build a character. It does an excellent job of describing what stuff you could include in your character. If you're George R.R. Martin, you don't need this. However, I have a friend who loves Pathfinder, but when presented with character generation, he freezes. This chapter gives some good fluff for your characters and suggests traits for you to take for all the fluff. Heck, if you want to completely randomize your PCs, this chapter gives tables and tables of random stuff to make your new PC. Where the fluff is needed, it's done well, but don't expect it throughout the book. 4/5

Execution-This book is the standard Paizo quality. The book is a nice hard cover with well put together pages. The layout lacks a bit. There are pages after pages of tables or rules or columns of text. Nothing brakes up much of what you're reading, so it gets a little boring. It's important rules, if you want them, but they get very dry, very quick. 3.5/5

Final Thoughts-Unlike a base book, this is a one copy at the table max book. This is something you might want to get, skim through, and then give to your GM while telling him which of these rules you want in the game. It's a repeat of many of the rules systems explored in the adventure paths, which isn't bad because the rules do get a little touch up here and there. However, if you want a dungeon crawling game where you find some monsters, kill them, and take gear, this isn't for you. If you want to do some crazy game where you explore a mist filled continent via random hex crawl where you establish a kingdom while maintaining your family's honor, waging a war for the throne, marrying into different family lines, and dealing with the crushing shame of your fathers half fiend lineage, then YES you will need this book. 83%


Excellent product adaptable to other games

4/5

After thumbing through the book I decided to pick it up. I think the systems in the book are really interesting and I'm actually adapting them to my 4e game.

The book is chock full of fluffy stuff but stuff tied with mechanics so as a DM you get an idea of what type of rewards to apply to a player when they have a background or have own a business. The mass combat section is pretty neat as well, and with a little tweaking I can adapt that as well.


Fairly good.

3/5

This is a pretty decent fluff book. However, I wish the price was $29.99 instead. The paper quality used is substantially weaker than previous books. There are useful things to be found within for the GM who is not too busy to come up with himself or herself but nothing is overwhelming in here. Reminds me of the numerous volumes Wotc produced for 4E.


Ultimate Campaign Under Review!

5/5

This is definitely a homerun for Paizo. This is definitely one of their best products they have put out in a while. I actually gave it 4.5 out of 5 stars, but it is still good enough to give it 5 here.

Read my complete review HERE at Skyland Games.


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To me, Ultimate Campaign is a perfect example of the principle that guides the Paizo staff - they create books that they (the Paizo staff) want to see in the game AS GAMERS. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line doesn't follow any previous model for releasing game books (such as the D&D 3.X era). They simply produce books that they WANT to produce. I would not be surprised to see a healthy mix of splat books and books like Ultimate Campaign going forward. When they come up with a good idea, they run with it.


Not to change the topic, but here's a random thought - how are people going to abbreviate this book? UC is already Ultimate Combat. UCa? UCpn?


Personally, I'd go with UCam and UCmb.

Verdant Wheel

UCpg

Dark Archive

carmachu wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


I'm with you, but collectively we weren't buying them (I suspect). Or at least not buying them as much as we were buying the other stuff, which is the same thing as us saying we don't want them.

On the flips side, one could argue that they had no rhyme or reason to modules release, and weren't consistent with the releases of modules. Imagine if the AP's were, instead of timely releasing them each month in a consitant pattern, AP's were released willy nilly as modules were. Would AP's be as popular selling as they are now then?

Actually I'd point out all the lines (Except adventure paths) Schedules are often inconsistent. However modules as has ben mentioned before is the least popular line and I assume they know more about what the majority wanted from modules than you and I do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Hardcover, keep it simple, 2 letters.

UP


What does the P stand for?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ultimate camPaign

Use the second syllable, since we can't use the first.

Keep the Hardcover book abbreviations to 2 letters.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Yora wrote:
Personally, I'd go with UCam and UCmb.

this is likely the best idea for the shortening of the title and keep them from being confused.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Or if you to keep UC's;

Ultimate Combat becomes - UCb
Ultimate Campaign becomes - UCp


True, but the legibility is not great with UCb, UCp.
But UCam and UCmb is way more legible to the reader.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kevin Mack wrote:
carmachu wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


I'm with you, but collectively we weren't buying them (I suspect). Or at least not buying them as much as we were buying the other stuff, which is the same thing as us saying we don't want them.

On the flips side, one could argue that they had no rhyme or reason to modules release, and weren't consistent with the releases of modules. Imagine if the AP's were, instead of timely releasing them each month in a consitant pattern, AP's were released willy nilly as modules were. Would AP's be as popular selling as they are now then?
Actually I'd point out all the lines (Except adventure paths) Schedules are often inconsistent. However modules as has ben mentioned before is the least popular line and I assume they know more about what the majority wanted from modules than you and I do.

And thus, carmachu, my statement being COMPLETELY relevant. If you want short, sometimes generic scenarios, Pathfinder Society produces a lot of good one-shot adventures (they might require toning down on difficulty though). Plus there are plenty of 3PP adventures that could always use the sales, many of which are actually pretty high-quality productions.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That's why I like UP best.

(Combat however should be Cbt for best clarity, if you want a 3 letter abbr.)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor

7 people marked this as a favorite.

I'll just go with Ucom and Ucam.


Queen Moragan wrote:

That's why I like UP best.

(Combat however should be Cbt for best clarity, if you want a 3 letter abbr.)

So what if Paizo releases Ultimate Player (UP), it'll take UP and its spot since it's the more logical choice for UP as a short form.

The rule of short forms is in general you always take the first letter of each word and upper case them (with certain exceptions like; of and the), and if need be some following letters that make sense and are made lower case.

That and we have been following this rule for Every release that paizo has done.

Thus following that rule "UP" is invalid for Ultimate Campaign as a short form, But UC is valid, as is UCmp, UCpg, UCam and UCpn.

For Ultimate Combat, UC is valid, as is UCmb, UCmt, UCbt, UCom and UCmbt.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My thought was to use a 2-letter upper case designator for all Ultimate books (similiar to US State postal abbr.).

This is the first hardcover to duplicate the initials of a previous book.

Ultimate P(layer), I really don't think will ever happen.

So simply defaulting to the second syllable makes more sense;

If UM were the second book, it would be UG,
If UC were the second book, it would be UB,
If UE were the second book, it would be UQ.

Your "invalid short forms" is invalid itself (wrong premise);P

I'm suggesting using a system that allows only 2 upper case letters and no lower case letters.

Though, it does now occur to me that we could use UK,
Ultimate K(ingmaker), in homage.
(But I would keep that for the Hardcover Anniversary edition due out in 2014.)

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

I say drop the U, just call it CAM.


Ultimate player is an possible example of something that short forms into UP.

Again short form rules are First Letter of any word is Upper Case (None other except of and the), and if need be other letters in the word follow the First letter of that word are Lower Case and in order from their position in the word.

So valid short forms for Ultimate Combat are UC, UCmb, UCmt, UCbt, UCom, UCmbt, UltC, UltCmb, UltCmt, UltCbt, UltCom and UltCmbt.

Side Visable
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Combat

And valid short forms for Ultimate Campaign are UC, UCmp, UCpg, UCam UCpn, UltC, UltCmp, UltCpg, UltCam, and UltCpn

Side Visable
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign
Ultimate Campaign

The Exchange

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Everyone up above wrote:
-Debate over shorthand for this book-

You did this Paizo!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Azure_Zero
IMHO you are way over thinking this.

In the hopes of keeping it as simple as possible, I recommend the following;

For a 2 letter system;
UC = Ultimate Combat
UP = Ultimate Campaign

For a non-2 letter system;
UCbt = Ultimate Combat
UCpn = Ultimate Campaign

Or, we could just use whatever the developers have been using over the past year or so.:D


1 person marked this as a favorite.

UCa is the (unofficial) Paizo chatroom approved shorthand for it.

Pronounced "you-cah"...

Liberty's Edge

Rule of first use : Ultimate Combat stays UC. This will help understand posts that were written before Ultimate Campaign.

Ultimate Campaign = UCamp

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

A few of the buildings from the Wayfinder Realm Building articles made it into UCa, but with changes.

Silver Crusade

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can't we just call it "George"?


Queen Moragan wrote:

...

In the hopes of keeping it as simple as possible, I recommend the following;

For a 2 letter system;
UC = Ultimate Combat
UP = Ultimate Campaign

For a non-2 letter system;
UCbt = Ultimate Combat
UCpn = Ultimate Campaign

Or, we could just use whatever the developers have been using over the past year or so.:D

I was just showing some the variations that are usable based on short form rules

I don't think a 2 letter system is usable, as it'll have problems later as more books get released.
(Imagine if they made Unearthed Magic, Unified Combat, or Unique Equipment)

So I agree that the non-2 letter system is the way to go.
Though I think these ones are the best options, but yours do fit as well.
Ultimate Combat = UCmb < - Drop the U and it somewhat abbreviates to Cmb which is Combat Manuver Bonus, which well known.
Ultimate Campaign = UCmp or UCpg

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Can't we just call it "George"?

Are you going to hug it and squeeze it?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

*Meanwhile, at Paizo HQ*

James Jacobs: "My god...WHAT HAVE I DONE!?"


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Idealy, you want the abbreviation to also look like the word it represents, and not look like the other word.

Since we are actually only talking about the words Combat & Campaign.

Both start with "C".

Then there is an "om" & an "am", best avoid these, too similiar.

That takes care of the entire first syllable in both words.

We now have "bat" & "paign".

Remove the vowels and any silent letters(why put a silent letter in an abbr.?), and we are left with "bt" & "pn".

The results are Cbt(CBT) which looks like Combat & Cpn(CPN) which looks like Campaign, neither looks like the other nor could be mistaken for the other.

I will definitely call mine George!
And hug it!
And squeeze it!
And give it lots of love!


Yora wrote:
I think they finally got all that crunch nonsense out of the way and now have the freedom to deliver actual creative content. Stuff for our imagination instead for dice throwing.

I'm of the other stripe - I find non mechanical stuff to be very bland. I can come up with histories, backgrounds, gods and whatnot without any issues. A new mechanic will often lead me to think about how it applies - and that can lead to character ideas, or even cultural stuff depending on what the mechanic is. Mechanics are creative as well as non mechanics.

And I am really looking forward to getting this in a couple of days.


Gorbacz wrote:
Can't we just call it "George"?

Or FREd.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
KujakuDM wrote:
When are we going to get PDF's of the sheets within?

The Kingdom / Army sheets are all in the book. If you have a hard copy, you can photograph / scan them. If you have a PDF, print them out.

And for those that don't have access to a copier and own a hard copy?

Is there a chance of the sheets being put out as a standalone pdf?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ultimate Player may not be likely, but Ultimate Psychics is very likely.

Dark Archive

xevious573 wrote:


And thus, carmachu, my statement being COMPLETELY relevant. If you want short, sometimes generic scenarios, Pathfinder Society produces a lot of good one-shot adventures (they might require toning down on difficulty though). Plus there are plenty of 3PP adventures that could always use the sales, many of which are actually pretty high-quality productions.

And thus, paizo DOESNT produce what folks want. Nor is it relevant. AP's launch EVERY MONTH. Consistantly- barring shipping issues. And telling me there are plenty of 3PP adventures isn't Paizo satisfying wants. Its shoving us out the door.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
carmachu wrote:
xevious573 wrote:


And thus, carmachu, my statement being COMPLETELY relevant. If you want short, sometimes generic scenarios, Pathfinder Society produces a lot of good one-shot adventures (they might require toning down on difficulty though). Plus there are plenty of 3PP adventures that could always use the sales, many of which are actually pretty high-quality productions.

And thus, paizo DOESNT produce what folks want. Nor is it relevant. AP's launch EVERY MONTH. Consistantly- barring shipping issues. And telling me there are plenty of 3PP adventures isn't Paizo satisfying wants. Its shoving us out the door.

Why can't you buy the Pathfinder Society adventures? They are $4 a piece, they produce a lot of them for varying different level ranges, they are small enough to drop into a campaign without disrupting the flow of the campaign, and they come in serials and standalones. What part of that isn't what you exactly wanted?

Here's a link for you. You don't need to be playing in Pathfinder Society to use these modules for your home games, it just means you won't be able to be a player in those modules in Society play.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
carmachu wrote:
xevious573 wrote:


And thus, carmachu, my statement being COMPLETELY relevant. If you want short, sometimes generic scenarios, Pathfinder Society produces a lot of good one-shot adventures (they might require toning down on difficulty though). Plus there are plenty of 3PP adventures that could always use the sales, many of which are actually pretty high-quality productions.

And thus, paizo DOESNT produce what folks want. Nor is it relevant. AP's launch EVERY MONTH. Consistantly- barring shipping issues. And telling me there are plenty of 3PP adventures isn't Paizo satisfying wants. Its shoving us out the door.

The APs are also the backbone of the entire business. It's the AP subscriptions that allow them to do everything else. Because the AP's ARE immensely popular, sell really well and are the one thing that Paizo makes SURE ships on time every month because if they don't it could kill the company.


We could call it UNCS...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm happy with UCa or UCam.

On another issue, which became relevant after a discussion with one of my players today: unless I missed it, there is no indication of how the lyre of building interacts with the downtime system. I'd think that an item capable of performing 300 man-days of construction work in 30 minutes would affect building construction in some pretty odd ways. I'm currently considering allowing a free Labor capital gain check with Perform (stringed instrument) once per week, but since the lyre quite merrily allows someone to spend a day playing it (provided they can make a fairly trivial skill check), a defined effect for it under downtime rules would probably be a good idea (particularly since someone could play it for 7.5 hours and turn that into 4,800 man-hours, which would really screw up the numbers).

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Long ago, I had to accept that "what I want" from a gaming company is not the same as "what everyone wants" or "what the majority of purchasers want." I also had to accept that a company with a few dozen staff were not going to be able to capably produce every awesome gaming thing ever on a weekly or even monthly basis.

But a discussion of Paizo's module production schedule vs AP schedule, etc. should probably go into another thread.

Going OT...

To Ultimate Campaign, I've been using UCa as an abbreviation and I think it works, personally.

Chemlak, you make a very good point. Really, "how does this system interact with magic items in core?" should really be a standard on the checklist of stuff to double check in systems in any RPG line supplement. I can get it if it skips past something in a splat, but something that's in core--and a longstanding item that's been in many editions of D&D--shouldn't have been skipped over. Likewise for labor saving spells.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Cori Marie wrote:
Ultimate Player may not be likely, but Ultimate Psychics is very likely.

What makes you say that?

I've only ever heard of Psyonics referred to as very unlikely from Paizo.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

James Jacobs has said many times that psychic magic is a core part of certain parts of Golarion. Specifically the Keleshite empire and Vudra. They won't call them psionics, but rather psychic magic. But again, this is off topic and should go to it's own thread.

Contributor

3 people marked this as a favorite.

@Deathquaker:

If you look at the Downtime Rules from a logical perspective, it becomes pretty easy to see how it would interact with a lyre of building

First, here's the magic item in question:

Lyre of Building wrote:

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 6th

Slot —; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 5 lbs.

Description
This magical instrument is usually made of gold and inlaid with numerous gems. If the proper chords are struck, a single use of this lyre negates any attacks made against inanimate construction (walls, roof, floor, and so on) within 300 feet. This includes the effects of a horn of blasting, a disintegrate spell, or an attack from a ram or similar siege weapon. The lyre can be used in this way once per day, with the protection lasting for 30 minutes.

The lyre is also useful with respect to building. Once a week, its strings can be strummed so as to produce chords that magically construct buildings, mines, tunnels, ditches, etc. The effect produced in 30 minutes of playing is equal to the work of 100 humans laboring for 3 days. Each hour after the first, a character playing the lyre must make a DC 18 Perform (string instruments) check. If it fails, she must stop and cannot play the lyre again for this purpose until a week has passed.

Construction Requirements
Craft Wondrous Item, fabricate; Cost 6,500 gp

So, taking the rules apart, we know that in 30 minutes, the lyre can do the labor of 100 men working for three days.

Now, if we go to the Downtime Rules, we see the following:

Using Followers wrote:

The Leadership feat can grant you followers—people loyal

to you who assist you if they are able. In the downtime system, followers provide additional Influence or Labor to supplement your activities at no cost to you. This increases the effect of Influence or Labor you spend by 50%, to a maximum of 1 additional Influence or Labor for every 2 followers in the settlement where the downtime activity takes place.

Under certain circumstances, the GM may rule that followers provide less of a benefit than the standard 50% increase. For example, if your followers live in a different settlement and must travel to your location, but bandit activity makes travel risky or they have been away from home for a week or more, the GM might decide that your followers increase the effect of Influence or Labor by only 1 for every 3 followers or even 1 for every 4. Your followers are loyal to you, but they are not slaves and can provide only so much help before they go about their normal lives.

So if we use the followers as a guideline, we could effectively say that a lyre of building does the same amount of work as 100 followers laboring for three days. Using those follows, the lyre of building allows three days worth of Labor that you spend to gain a 50% increase, up to 50 additional Labor. Since it allows three days worth of work, then every 30 minutes it allows you to spend up to three days' worth of labor, as determined by the settlement's spending limits. After an hour of play (or six day's worth of labor) you have to make a Perform check; failure indicates that you cannot use the lyre again for one week.

Some further thoughts, it might be fair to make a few alterations to these rules; namely the fact that the item claims you have the work of 100 rulers. Looking under the Settlement Rules, "100" falls squarely in the range of the Village (a population of 61 to 200). Now, granted, the Downtime Rules state that not ALL of the workers are going to help you, so this might not necessarily be the absolute best value to pick but it works. Picking the village allows the GM to say, "Okay, the lyre of building has a daily spending limit of 10 Labor, which counts as 15 Labor because of the followers bonus. So every 30 minutes you can spend up to 30 labor and have it count as 45 Labor."

Without making a single Perform check, that's enough Labor to build a house and a half.


Chemlak wrote:
On another issue, which became relevant after a discussion with one of my players today: unless I missed it, there is no indication of how the lyre of building interacts with the downtime system. I'd think that an item capable of performing 300 man-days of construction work in 30 minutes would affect building construction in some pretty odd ways. I'm currently considering allowing a free Labor capital gain check with Perform (stringed instrument) once per week, but since the lyre quite merrily allows someone to spend a day playing it (provided they can make a fairly trivial skill check), a defined effect for it under downtime rules would probably be a good idea (particularly since someone could play it for 7.5 hours and turn that into 4,800 man-hours, which would really screw up the numbers).

I found a reference you can use in the mean time; according to the follower section on page 80, 2 followers working one day equal one point of Labor. Using that number, you can approximate that one Labor equals 16 man-hours. It is also stated that you can spend extra Labor to complete buildings quicker on page 92. Using these two points in combination, a Lyre of Building generates (100 men x 3days x 8 hours=2400 man-hours/16 man-hours) 150 Labor per 30 minutes of being played.


Bobson wrote:
Not to change the topic, but here's a random thought - how are people going to abbreviate this book? UC is already Ultimate Combat. UCa? UCpn?

Not gonna. Fight the abbreviations!


Alexander Augunas wrote:

@Deathquaker:

If you look at the Downtime Rules from a logical perspective, it becomes pretty easy to see how it would interact with a lyre of building

...

That's a really nice analysis, but it's one that Paizo should have done and incorporated the results of in the rules. Not every GM is going to be able to recreate that, or will see this post. Even those that do, there's different interpretations, as Swashbucklersdc's example shows.

I still can't buy a copy to read it on my own, but this is the first thing I've heard about this book that's disappointed me.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks everyone who pointed to the "using extra labor" and "followers as labor" sections - I had already looked at them, but hadn't fully crunched numbers, and just to put Alexander's analysis into some more perspective, that means that the lyre of building (a 13,000 gp item) does 450 gp of labour in the first 30 minutes, with an additional 450 per hour thereafter. In 7.5 hours (assuming 7 DC 18 Perform (stringed instrument) checks are made) it does 3,600 gp worth of labour. It can only function once per week, but it pays for itself after 4 uses. That bothers me.

The only other thing I found that bugs me slightly (and I really do mean slightly) is also in the downtime rules - the example buildings (which are awesome) give you a full breakdown of the costs of creating them, but I would have also liked a compiled detailing of their Capital bonuses, too. As it stands, every time I want to see what bonuses a pre-generated building grants me, I have to add up the bonuses from all of the component rooms. (I then write them down, so I don't have to keep doing it.)

Final nitpick - I've since lost the page, but there's a typo somewhere, wherein "thought" is used when the word intended (from context) is "though".

Having spent two posts pointing out "problems", I will now say that I utterly love this book. It's brilliant. Highly detailed, infinitely useful, there should be something in here for everyone.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Less than 24 hours for this book, whatever the abbreviation is!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

When do Paizo normally put their pdfs on sale? Do they go up at midnight PDT or do they wait until they opening hours start (10am?).


UC
UCAMP

This looks awesome...think I'll buy it!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The Character background generator is excellent! Yesterday, I generated a new character for each of the CRB races and was very impressed with the diversity of characters generated. If a player or GM is ever stuck coming up with an idea for a character, this system is excellent for getting past the block. The incorporation of events granting access to traits is superb as well.

And for those wanting to let the dice determine alignment, the conflict resolution system presents some cool options as well.

Best lifepath/background generation system since Traveller!

This book continues to impress me. I strongly support more RPG books of this type that expand the game's scope in non-traditional ways. I like bestiaries, NPC guides, and crunch books just fine, but I think this book will become another trademark example of how Pathfinder has surpassed its predecessor.


I have to agree with you, BPorter. While everything in this book isn't a home run for me, a lot of it is. I appreciate the character background immensely as a great tool for helping those players who want a deep RP experience, but lack the creativity or time to make a background that's exciting or deep. While more crunchy rules have its place, having RP tools like this is priceless.

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