Titan Fighter question

I'm been doing some research on a potential character build, and I came across the Titan Fighter archetype of the Fighter class. I found something a little curious and I wondered if someone could clarify it for me. The initial ability is:

Giant Weapon Wielder

At 1st level, a titan fighter can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons. He takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an over-sized two-handed weapon.

This ability replaces the fighter's 1st level bonus feat.

When I consult the rules for inappropriately sized weapons, it says:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

If I'm reading this correctly, a standard lvl 1 vanilla fighter could wield a enlarged sword (for example) at a -2 penalty, and a lvl 1 Titan Fighter gives up a feat for something he can already do. Am I reading this right? Is there something between these two that I'm missing?

Normally there is no way you can wield a large 2 handed weapon. You can wield a weapon a size larger normally by doing this. A large dagger becomes one handed, a large sword becomes 2 handed, but without an ability that let's you wield large two handed a large great sword is essentially a 3 handed weapon. This is only worth taking if you want to use a large 2 handed, anything else you should just take the regular weapon size penalties. So here is what you'd be looking at: wielding a large greatsword: lv1 -4 to hit, lv3 -3 to hit, lv7 -2 to hit, lv 11 -1, and lv15+ you have no penalty.

Normally there is no way you can wield a large 2 handed weapon. You can wield a weapon a size larger normally by doing this. A large dagger becomes one handed, a large sword becomes 2 handed, but without an ability that let's you wield large two handed a large great sword is essentially a 3 handed weapon. This is only worth taking if you want to use a large 2 handed, anything else you should just take the regular weapon size penalties. So here is what you'd be looking at: wielding a large greatsword: lv1 -4 to hit, lv3 -3 to hit, lv7 -2 to hit, lv 11 -1, and lv15+ you have no penalty.

+1. Without the ability you just can't wield a large two-handed weapon.

Which for a long time both this and the barbarian didn't "technically" say you could, making them worthless. Side note if for some reason you had a build that needed a specific named weapon, like a dagger, but you wanted to use a bigger version of it this could work. Technically you could two hand a huge dagger at -4 and it would still count as a dagger

Of course you can just wield a large bastard sword (with exotic weapon proficency) and mutation warrior and do better than you would with a large greatsword and titan fighter...

Unless you areally vital striking, then 3d6 is better than 2d8.

Unless you areally vital striking, then 3d6 is better than 2d8.

Barely. Your minimum damage is 3 vs 2 but max damage is 18 for both. And Large bastard swords are meant to get impact asap while the fighter wields them enlarged (potions of enlarge person are cheap btw), and 4d8 is better than 5d6.

06th: 8d8 vs 10d6 -> min dmg: 8 vs 10 -> max dmg: 64 vs 60

11th: 12d8 vs 15d6 -> min dmg: 12 vs 15 -> max dmg: 96 vs 90

16th: 16d8 vs 20d6 -> min dmg: 16 vs 20 -> max dmg: 128 vs 120

Vital strike is nice (you can move and use it or even charge and use it with the right set up) but not mandatory with this kind of character.

8+8=16

Bastard Sword still beats out the greatsword because its max size is one size category larger than the greatswords.

a large impact greatsword is 6d6, not 5d6

06th: 8d8 vs 12d6 -> min dmg: 8 vs 12 -> max dmg: 64 vs 72

11th: 12d8 vs 18d6 -> min dmg: 12 vs 15 -> max dmg: 96 vs 108

16th: 16d8 vs 24d6 -> min dmg: 16 vs 20 -> max dmg: 128 vs 144

a large impact greatsword is 6d6, not 5d6

06th: 8d8 vs 12d6 -> min dmg: 8 vs 12 -> max dmg: 64 vs 72

11th: 12d8 vs 18d6 -> min dmg: 12 vs 15 -> max dmg: 96 vs 108

16th: 16d8 vs 24d6 -> min dmg: 16 vs 20 -> max dmg: 128 vs 144

When you add impact and size you only add one die of the type the weapon uses. So a large greatsword causes 3d6 of dmg on hit and a large impact greatsword does 4d6.

Here's a guide to how it works

A large greatsword with impact does do 4d6.
But, you were using a potion of enlarge person too. That pushes it to 6d6.

A large greatsword with impact does do 4d6.

But, you were using a potion of enlarge person too. That pushes it to 6d6.

Why?

The sword becomes huge as you become large and the size increase should give you another +1d6 not +2d6 or am I missing something?

Why?

The sword becomes huge as you become large and the size increase should give you another +1d6 not +2d6 or am I missing something?

The damage progression is not linear. Here is how it works (from the FAQ):

Size Changes, Effective Size Changes, and Damage Dice Progression: I'm confused by how to increase and decrease manufactured and natural weapon damage dice when the weapon's size or effective size changes. There's a bunch of different charts, and I'm not sure which to use.

When the damage dealt by a creature’s weapons or natural attacks changes due to a change in its size (or the size of its weapon), use the following rules to determine the new damage.

• If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Small or lower (or is treated as Small or lower) or the initial damage is 1d6 or less, instead increase the damage by one step.
• If the size decreases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and decrease the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Medium or lower (or is treated as Medium or lower) or the initial damage is 1d8 or less, instead decrease the damage by one step.
• If the exact number of original dice is not found on this chart, apply the following before adjusting the damage dice. If the damage is a number of d6, find the next lowest number of d6 on the chart and use that number of d8 as the original damage value (for example, 10d6 would instead be treated as 8d8). If the damage is a number of d8, find the next highest number of d8 on the chart and use that number of d6 as the original damage value (for example, 5d8 would instead be treated as 6d6). Once you have the new damage value, adjust by the number of steps noted above.
• If the die type is not referenced on this chart, apply the following rules before adjusting the damage dice. 2d4 counts as 1d8 on the chart, 3d4 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d4. 1d12 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d12.
• Finally, 2d10 increases to 4d8 and decreases to 2d8, regardless of the initial size, and so on for higher numbers of d10.

Damage Dice Progression Chart
1
1d2
1d3
1d4
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
3d6
3d8
4d6
4d8
6d6
6d8
8d6
8d8
12d6
12d8
16d6

So, the damage of a greatsword progresses as follows:

@ Khudzlin: Thanks for the explanation.
All in all vital striking with a huge impact greatsword is quite better than vital striking with a huge impact bastard sword then, although if you factor what you have to do in order to be able to wield such weapon I still consider the bastard sword option better because you don't need a specific archetype but just a feat.

yeah, bastard sword is better if you wanted any class, or not super focusing on vital strike. But if you're really want to have a vital strike focus guy that uses a weapon you'll want the large greatsword.