I have never liked Wizkids "brick" promos and sad to see Paizo jumping on that band wagon with this license.
Fine. The alternative is "no promos". You can have that now. Don't pre-order. Don't get the promo.
I'm Kae'Yoss. I solve problems.
Complete listings were generally know a month, in many cases more than a month before the release
I must remember things wrong then. They had previews up to shortly before. Sometimes stuff would leak, but official listings were made closer than a month before the final release.
Just consider me crazy as I don't like limited edition promo figures, or not being an informed consumer.
The fun part is that you can solve both your problems in one fell swoop.
This is a better deal about promo figures than wizards had. For those, you had to jump through hoops. And that assumes you live in a country they supported with their stuff. Which I never did (I think they kept that stuff away from my whole continent). So if I wanted promo stuff, I had to get to the after market. And pay through the nose.
Something like 15 bucks (or maybe just a subscription commitment) for a large big dragon? Sweet. Some of those medium-sized promos cost more than that on the after market.
Chief Technical Officer
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WotC also never was soliciting Preorders from the general public on their own web store for the Minis line, that had one shot promos, I have never liked Wizkids "brick" promos and sad to see Paizo jumping on that band wagon with this license.
It seems that this is not quite how WizKids operates. They don't reveal all the information this quickly.
Actually, neither did wizards with DDM, at least not at the time I was buying them. There are previews, but complete listings come very late.
To be clear here, WizKids is manufacturing these minis under license from us; we are not the manufacturer.
Complete listings were generally know a month, in many cases more than a month before the release (yes some were spoilers) but there were multiple sets know about months in advance of release, due to the lead time of production compared to distribution
If you're still talking about Wizards D&D Minis, that's incorrect. Remember, Paizo used to buy cases to break open for singles, so we'd hunt down set lists and photos so that we could have our singles listings ready to go as close to release as possible, and I recall at least a few occasions where we didn't have the full information we needed until the sets were released.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I do apologize if this was mentioned earlier in the thread as it has been difficult catching up on everyone's views and opinions. Amongst all the excitement for this product there is one issue that has bothered me somewhat. I was hoping to be able to see how the Beginner Box Heroes turn out prior to ordering any of the Heroes & Monsters miniatures. With the assurance of the option in attaining a Black Dragon being contingent upon the ordering of a case by the 1st of October, I find it difficult to invest blindly without at least having my own opinion be a factor in the decision process; amongst all of the trusted Paizo staffs views as well.
Paizo's commitment to quality and diligence cannot be questioned, in my assessment, as I am very pleased with where the company has come from and where they seem to be going with the Pathfinder brand. I love it!! My small feeling of disappointment comes from the limited window of opportunity with regards to the Black Dragon promotional miniature.
Now I do recall that Paizo has said that they plan on presenting other opportunities to attain, earn, or gain the Black Dragon, which I am looking forward to very much. I am curious as to the nature of these other prospects and if anyone else feels the same way as I do regarding this matter. Game on friends!!
At this time, if you want to *guarantee* that you can acquire a black dragon from us, you'll need to preorder or subscribe before October 1. After that date, we'll have a known quantity of dragons coming, and we'll continue to guarantee availability of the remainder to people who subscribe to the minis line right up until we no longer have guaranteed black dragon inventory to offer them; I can't predict a date when that window might close.
There is a possibility that we'll have options other than that, but if we do, it probably won't be until several months after release, and I'm not prepared to be more specific about that until it happens.
We do expect to have more information about our subscriptions, and about the black dragon, within a week.
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Thank you for the clarification Vic and I appreciate your patience and understanding with all of us. You do a wonderful job!! Game on friends!!
Ditto! Thanks Vic for some of your insight. I too recall not knowing much of the DDM sets up until release. I get the impression that you want to show us more....and that's cool.
Later,
Mazra
I am eager, excited, and anxious for news regarding the black dragon and the case subscription, thanks for the updates Vic! :)
I'm also excited to see some additional preview pictures, thanks to you as well Erik! :)
I hope to place my pre-order by month's end (so before Oct. 1st).
(And I hope that after the Rise of the Runelords set, other sets (maybe yearly or something like that) based on the Adventure Paths continue (like Kingmaker, Serpent's Skull, and Carrion Crown). Although any sets based on ANY of the previous AP's would be COOL. :)
~Dean
I pre-ordered the case and look forward to getting my HUGE BLACK DRAGON.
OH YEAH BABY!!!!
Want them now......urge to kill rising.....RISING!!!!.....
What?.......I get a 4 pack of visible minis in october?.....
Urge to kill subsiding......nerves calming........
whew......close one there.
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We've just uploaded images of two nasty critters from Heroes & Monsters, the Lich and the Medusa!
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I think I will take a chance on this product and see if I can pre-order through my FLGS.
Anyone else have a wish list of what creatures you want to see in the set? The first one that came to mind for me is the Sepid Div - for some reason I just loved the look of it from running Legacy of Fire and I'd love to see a mini for it.
We've just uploaded images of two nasty critters from Heroes & Monsters, the Lich and the Medusa!
Oh, the Lich looks great!
Although I am not sure on the Medusa. Where I like the body and white gown and hair, the face seems too serene. Her mouth is small and compressed. Kind of like “Ho-hum”. Also, not sure if it’s the lighting when the digital of the mini was taken, but it’s hard to see the detail on the snake.
I may be reading too much into it with her mouth, but the Medusa just doesn’t seem ‘scary’ at all.
But huge thumbs up on the Lich!
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We've just uploaded images of two nasty critters from Heroes & Monsters, the Lich and the Medusa!Oh, the Lich looks great!
Although I am not sure on the Medusa. Where I like the body and white gown and hair, the face seems too serene. Her mouth is small and compressed. Kind of like “Ho-hum”. Also, not sure if it’s the lighting when the digital of the mini was taken, but it’s hard to see the detail on the snake.
I may be reading too much into it with her mouth, but the Medusa just doesn’t seem ‘scary’ at all.
But huge thumbs up on the Lich!
There wasn't actually any lighting when the digital was taken- the image is the output of the digital sculpting tool that Wizkids use. It's only after this that a physical thing is made.
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We've just uploaded images of two nasty critters from Heroes & Monsters, the Lich and the Medusa!
Very nice! Personally, I think the Medusa is awesome. Thankfully she doesn't have a bow. With this look you could play her as a charmer to lure a hero to their demise. An alluring Medusa is something different. I like it! I would rather use this one than the Dangerous Delves, Night Below or Harbinger versions. Plus there is a twinge of Terrorvision in this Medusa and that has a kind of sick appeal to me.
The Lich has a different look too from any others we have seen. It will make a nice option from either the Giants of Legend Lich or Vlaakith, both nice versions in their own right. Choices are great. And I like that Paizo is putting a new spin on the look.
Thanks Erik for some more sneak peeks.
Later,
Mazra
Although I am not sure on the Medusa. Where I like the body and white gown and hair, the face seems too serene. Her mouth is small and compressed. Kind of like “Ho-hum”. Also, not sure if it’s the lighting when the digital of the mini was taken, but it’s hard to see the detail on the snake.
I may be reading too much into it with her mouth, but the Medusa just doesn’t seem ‘scary’ at all.
I kind of think I like that. I don't know about you, but some horrible hag-thing... I don't want to look at. Something humanoid and attractive and serene... I might get mesmerized and not resist... and get turned to stone.
What I'm saying is that the re-imaging is actually kind of cool (to me).
I like the classic look of the Medusa. Right now it is the model I like the most.
There wasn't actually any lighting when the digital was taken- the image is the output of the digital sculpting tool that Wizkids use. It's only after this that a physical thing is made.
Hmm, ok. Well, as long as we see some more detail with the snake in the final product. You can't even see any scales or the eyes. It's just all a solid green. And I think it would have been a nice touch for it's mouth to be open and you could see some fangs.
I kind of think I like that. I don't know about you, but some horrible hag-thing... I don't want to look at. Something humanoid and attractive and serene... I might get mesmerized and not resist... and get turned to stone.
Yes, I can see your point. I guess I was hoping for something more menacing or 'evil'. Maybe the eyes glowing and the snakes on the head (looking like) they are moving/slithering around, as if she is in the process of turning someone to stone.
While like that these two monsters are included in the set, I'm not so excited by the lich. Maybe it's just that it's a computer sculpt, but it looks kind of cartoony, not as withered and desicated as a lich might look. Still, very interesting.
Where I still really like the Lich, I can see his point. The face does seem a bit too 'clean'. No rotting skin, no skeleton showing.
Keep em coming......
Lich looks killer!!!
Medusa is an awesome sculpt. I like the fact she's not pidgeon-holed into any class by sculpting her with one weapon in particular.
Got any more???
The medusa mini is great but don't care for the snake; the figure would look better without it, imho. The lich is really spooky looking! I'm looking forward this release!
Regards,
V
And remember - Miniatures Market, Auggies and a slew of other folks on the internet will happily buy hundreds of cases and sell you individual minis at their market value.
One of those companies who will do that is called "Paizo". Have you heard of them? :)
I understand, your a business and your hear to make money. I like Paizo, and my local game store has happily sold me alot of your wonderful RPG system. However, Im a consumer in a down economy who often buys models entirely 'at need'. So lets say for the game Im running this week, I need about a dozen more goblin minis... I could drop 48 dollars on this product, or since theyre small possibly as little as 24 dollars. Or, I could drop 72 dollars and not get a single gobo and have to continue to proxy most of the goblin warband that is supposed to be happily munching on my players.
They have also said that their will be future "encounter" sets with fixed groups of minis. The initial random release will allow them to have the variety of sculpts available required to make boxes like Goblin Warband.
Also, their price for single larges is incredible.
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As mentioned many times in this thread, Paizo will be bursting boosters and selling miniatures individually. A goblin or two may be common, and commons typically sell at favorable pricing from random sets. Now if you want a rare you will pay more, but you will likely only need one of them.
We should all just be happy that new PPMs will be available and in a variety of formats.
Later,
Mazra
I'd like to get these...I really would, but $300 is just too much for resculpts of monsters that I already have as a result of my massive DDM collection.
That being said, if the list had a bunch of monsters that filled in gaps in previous lines or "iconic" monsters (1st ed. creatures that were updated to PF) that did not already exist, I'd certainly consider it. For example-if I knew that Paizo was making a Froghemoth or Wolf-in-Sheep's Clothing mini-yep, i would buy a case-sorry, wife!
Now that I think about it, the two Bestiary books have a lot of 1st ed. Monster Manual 2 and Fiend Folio monsters-get a line focused on those, and you'd have my cash.
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And while Im sure you looked into your options, I cant help feeling that a different medium might have been a better choice.
We keep going over this ground. The other choice is "don't make minis". The difference between random and non-random is literally the make/break decision. There isn't a third option.
Ideal or not, viable for you or not, this product line wouldn't exist were it not structured as it is. I have compassion for your position and need to budget and that you may not get the minis you want, but the reality of the costs involved won't change because of that compassion.
And while Im sure you looked into your options, I cant help feeling that a different medium might have been a better choice.We keep going over this ground. The other choice is "don't make minis". The difference between random and non-random is literally the make/break decision. There isn't a third option.
Ideal or not, viable for you or not, this product line wouldn't exist were it not structured as it is. I have compassion for your position and need to budget and that you may not get the minis you want, but the reality of the costs involved won't change because of that compassion.
If people don't want to buy the boosters then just buy the singels off of e-bay for the sake of pete.
I'm sure with the plethora of Common Goblin figures they'll be readily available for dirt cheap on e-bay.
It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
Well lucky for you Paizo will be buying their own cases, busting them open, and will be selling singles. So you won't have to scour ebay or even worry about others outbidding you to find the minis that you need.
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It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
To add to Hobbun's point, Paizo has said they will be releasing Adventure Packs in a non-random format. There should be plenty of options for everyone.
If you are in need of Goblins and Orcs Reaper's Legendary Encounters are available in a non-random format from their website as well.
Later,
Mazra
It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
There are other options....
1.) E-bay - which doesn't agree with you apparently so we'll move on to the secondary options.
2.) Single mini resale sites like...
--http://www.auggiesgamesonline.com/Miniatures_c_14.html
--http://www.miniaturemarket.com/collectible-miniatures/pathfinder-battles. html
--http://frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=67415
--And so on...
3.) Sometimes mini single resale shops sell on amazon cheaper than they do on their own sites.
Consider this your "Paizo sycophant" talking down to you ...hehehehe
I'm just saying....
Good times...
It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
There are other options....
1.) E-bay - which doesn't agree with you apparently so we'll move on to the secondary options.
2.) Single mini resale sites like...
--http://www.auggiesgamesonline.com/Miniatures_c_14.html
--http://www.miniaturemarket.com/collectible-miniatures/pathfinder-battles. html
--http://frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=67415
--And so on...3.) Sometimes mini single resale shops sell on amazon cheaper than they do on their own sites.
Consider this your "Paizo sycophant" talking down to you ...hehehehe
I'm just saying....
Good times...
Add Paizo to the list of single mini resale sites.
I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
There IS a third option.
Pretend that Paizo's not selling minis at all, and don't buy them.
It amazes me that people feel that they're worse off for Paizo/WizKids making minis in a format that doesn't appeal to them than if Paizo/Wizkids wasn't making them at all.
It seems that Paizo is making these minis either for people who want to sell sets online or collect them and not do anything with them. I don't want to scour ebay for the minis I want, and have to worry about outbidding all the other gamers trying to scavenge enough goblins or orcs for their encounters.
Now I can't wait for all the Paizo sycophants to talk down to me, for not understanding that there is no third option or some other BS.
What do you think they should do?
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Do we know the details on a Miniatures subscription? I know you are working on writing the code for the website, but I was wondering if details on how this will work been released in case I missed it.
Thanks,
Mazra
I believe that they are waiting for the code to be ready before announcing them, so that when they do announce they can go 'and here is where you can sign up!'
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CEO
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Do we know the details on a Miniatures subscription? I know you are working on writing the code for the website, but I was wondering if details on how this will work been released in case I missed it.
Thanks,
Mazra
I saw Erik writing text for the website and Vic editing it today, so hopefully soon!
-Lisa
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Do we know the details on a Miniatures subscription? I know you are working on writing the code for the website, but I was wondering if details on how this will work been released in case I missed it.
Thanks,
Mazra
I saw Erik writing text for the website and Vic editing it today, so hopefully soon!
-Lisa
Thanks Lisa, looking forward to it.
Later,
Mazra
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?And while Im sure you looked into your options, I cant help feeling that a different medium might have been a better choice.We keep going over this ground. The other choice is "don't make minis". The difference between random and non-random is literally the make/break decision. There isn't a third option.
FWIW, dwarfing Wizkids would be a more relevant fact.
What exactly are you suggesting though? That there's a way to do it that's still profitable without increasing the cost and whilst still maintaining the diversity of figures they're offering? Why wouldn't Wizkids implement such a strategy if it were profitable?
The.nonrandom models all seem too expensive or of very limited range to me. What companies are you referring to?
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?
Name them.
If there are "so many", then it won't be hard for you to just. name. them.
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?And while Im sure you looked into your options, I cant help feeling that a different medium might have been a better choice.We keep going over this ground. The other choice is "don't make minis". The difference between random and non-random is literally the make/break decision. There isn't a third option.
For pre painted minis, pick 2: Low Cost, Non-random, Many different minis.
I am guessing you are refering to GW when you say at least 1 that dwarfs paizo. They sell their normal hoard minis at the same price point as these, and they come unassembled and unpainted. Their unique minis are in the $6-$15 price range. If you want to get them painted, your looking at at least $5 on ebay, with highly variable quality, for the low end troops.
Or how about Reaper, who has their own line of pre-painted minis and has been in buisness for years. Their line is selling at the same price point as these. Its non-random. They also only come out with ~6 new minis per year, and after multiple years the entire line wont be the size of this initial release.
I think people need to step back a second and realize that Paizo liscences these minis out. They have some control (what is rare and common, relevent quality and mini selection) but really beyond all that they are letting wizkids handle the logistics of cost point and random/nonrandom. Wizkids is most certainly putting out the most money here (for higher profit point) being that they are paying to liscence the ip as well as make the products and paizo is getting paid for the liscence and a cut of the profits (likely anyway I don't pretend to know the exact deal). Paizo's involvement stops at saying yes or no to sculpts and quality. You dont like random? Go yell at Wizkids, I'm sure they can tell you why it works and why they make lots of money on the model.
I agree with those who say, "If you don't like it, don't buy it." Some people take things far too personally. Paizo is a great company, but they're still a company. They don't do *anything* just to spite you. Obviously, they're going to do what makes the most business sense. If that doesn't fit one's budget, then save your money. Skip a trip to Starbucks, or to the bars, or to the movies once a week or so and earmark the extra cash as your "Pathfinder Mini Fund." You have until December. Even someone of very modest means should be able to save up a couple hundred bucks by then. Me, I've already pre-ordered a case and I can't wait.
Minor threadjack--is there already a thread on minis we'd like to see in the future? If so, I missed it. If not, I may start it.
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?
So who are these companies?
Please dont try to say gamesworkshop when you really look at their costs for minis it dwarfs these in a heart beat