Pathfinder Battles—Heroes & Monsters

3.60/5 (based on 47 ratings)

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Pathfinder RPG combat comes to life on your tabletop with Heroes & Monsters, the debut release in the new Pathfinder Battles prepainted miniatures line! Produced in cooperation with Paizo Publishing, Heroes & Monsters presents a fascinating array of 40 beautifully painted miniatures perfect for use with the Pathfinder RPG or any fantasy miniatures game! From the brave Gnome Fighter to the mighty evil lich, Heroes & Monsters offers a wide range of player characters and dungeon denizens that make a perfect start to your Pathfinder Battles collection!

  • Heroes & Monsters Standard Boosters contain 1 Medium or 2 Small miniatures.
  • Heroes & Monsters Large Boosters contain 1 Large miniature.
  • Heroes & Monsters Bricks contain 16 Standard Boosters and 3 Large Boosters.
  • Heroes & Monsters Cases contain 4 Bricks (64 Standard Boosters and 12 Large Boosters).

Purchasers should get no to very few duplicate figures in a brick. Buyers who purchase factory-sealed cases should get a nearly complete set of figures. (As with any randomized product, collation is not guaranteed.)

Begin your Pathfinder Battles collection today! The Heroes & Monsters of the Pathfinder world await!

See the press release for questions and answers about this exciting new product line.


Heroes & Monsters Set List

CommonUncommon
1  Goblin Warrior (Red)
2  Goblin Hero (Red)
3  Goblin Warrior (Blue)
4  Goblin Hero (Blue)
5  Orc Brute
6  Orc Warrior
7  Skeleton
8  Watch Guard
9  Watch Officer
10  Lizardfolk Champion
11  Zombie
12  Giant Spider
13  Wolf
14  Venomous Snake
15  Mummy
16  Human Rogue
17  Human Ranger
18  Elf Wizard
19  Half-Elf Cleric
20  Dwarf Fighter
21  Human Druid
22  Gnome Fighter
23  Dire Rat
Rare
24  Gargoyle
25  Half-Orc Barbarian
26  Spectre
27  Seelah, Human Paladin
28  Werewolf
29  Medusa
30  Minotaur
31  Ogre
32  Troll
33  Ettin
34  Chimera
35  Manticore
36  Giant Caveweaver Spider
37  Frost Giant
38  Succubus
39  Lich
40  Vampire

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription.

Additional Product Images


(click to enlarge)
WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB1 WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB3 PFB4 WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB5
Medusa Lich seelah orc
092311_EttinPreview 092311_RangerPreview 093011_GoblinPreview

Product Availability

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Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

WZK70482


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Average product rating:

3.60/5 (based on 47 ratings)

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Very happy

4/5

I give it four stars because while I am extremely pleased and there is always room for improvement, there are a couple things that could have been different to make it five star. The major one being the fem paladin being packaged with the set. The other (heroes) are fine as they are really non-descript and in my games the pcs fight npc's sometimes so I don't mind the doubles of them.

That being said, I love some and I do not love others. The style that paizo has makes me love some like the goblins and dislike some like the orcs. With this in mind it will be like that with any set by any company. They can't make us all happy as we all like different things. I feel that even though this is the case that I can pick a good number of minis that I need and will accept in my games from this set. The quality is much better that I had hoped for. The weapons are straight and do not do 45 degree angle turns like Dnd minis and the legs do not bend forward or backward making the mini stand diagonally like some Dnd minis. Each miniature keeps its stance very well.

I love the frost giant! I think a lot of thought went into it. The optional weapons are a godsend for people like me who like seeing diversity on the table. Helps differentiate minis when talking about them and adds a little different character. It also allows the gm to give special type attacks to certain mobs to spice things up. Axe = some type of cleave and sword can be used to impale etc etc.. I'm a fan. If you have three on the table two with swords can be guards and one with axe can be king.

Goblins are also among my favorites. I've always imagined my goblins as low level mildly sentient nuisances that try and emulate to some degree the way of life of higher intelligent sentient beings. The paizo goblins more than fit the bill. They can be decent foes for beginner adventurers but as the heroes level up they can either find humor in their antics or sadness in it. The childlike clothing they wear with the primitive stitching is awesome and they are just scary enough to be used in stories to scare kids into doing chores and coming in before dark :).

I love that the set sets you up for a spider encounter giving you the smaller giant spiders and a larger boss queen. For higher level parties you can have several queens and just make them crag spiders or some sort of gargantuan spider nest. Lots of options.

Then the set gives you a skeleton, mummy, specter, zombie, and lich for your undead encounters. The skeletons IMO look very nice. I have a nicer painted set but if I didn't I would be using these. The Dnd skeletons make me cringe and the ones I own do not stand up right, hence why I had to buy metal ones. Paizo offers a very nice skeleton. (next set better have skeletal archers though ;) ). The mummy makes a very nice miniature and then you have a lich that can work as an npc like lord soth or just a random lich boss to seal the undead encounter. My only problem with the lich (I do like the figure) is his pauldrons. No armor smith would fashion them with points so close to the head. Being as covers to movable joints all you'd have to do is hit the shoulder up and he'd have a spike in his skull. I look at things like that as I view it can aid or hinder getting into the role. Something's are fine but when an artist chooses to go fantasy based and trick out armor or weapons at least give it a semblance of practicality. No doubt the lich would be after function over fashion anyhow.

I love that the set offers a snake and a rat as these are things new adventurers often find in dungeons. And you can use the rats in cities, sewers, caves, it's just a great creature to have as are the troll and Minotaur.

The set offers classic monsters like the werewolf and vampire as well for those that run games with those types of creatures.

Overall the set has a ton of gameplay value associated with it and it has already upped my visual aid game by a significant amount.

Great quality and great overall gaming scenario coverage.

Mini's I'd like to see in future sets.

Mermaids. Ones that are maybe coming half up out of the water maybe with a part of tail coming up out of the water further back on the base? No tail is needed if the human part is coming up out of water and her skin is blue tint with red eyes. Mermaids with fangs that drown those foolish enough to get to close. :) like in the last Peter pan movie. I'd buy about three for my sea adventures. They can appear along coasts or to adventurers on shops and boats. Good play/quest value.

Tentacles. Tentacles can come out of anywhere. Bodies of water, cracks in the earth, wells, and so forth. Just like you had two goblins in a pack have two different sculpted tentacles (one large and one smaller) in one box. Multiple sets of tentacles would give you more to use at a time. I'd need at least three for a six tentacled beast. And you could even do two paint jobs. One sea themed , one inky black ethereal tendril themed.

Half submerged water squid thing as a large creature? It can stand alone with a few tentacles reaching out of the water for the heroes and half of its body poking up from the water base or it could be combined ( same color scheme) with the tentacle miniatures to appear to have more tentacles coming out of the water or look bigger then what the heroes can see. Also this allows gms to keep the mob relatively stationary while moving the separate tentacles next to players it has grabbed or is attempting to attack :). You can even remove a tentacle and mini if the creature submerged them. (using tentacle monster plus at least one tentacle set)

Skeleton archer that matches the other skeleton.

A decent looking cave bear. On three limbs with the fourth doing a wide sweeping claw swipe and its mouth open on a roar as it tries to get its prey.
( makes a great opponent and or familiar companion for rangers and Druids. lots of table value)

A dryad

A hound would be cool but I'm not sure how viable it would be to make. Hounds could be sold in towns as pets but also hunting companions or tracking companions. A dog of choice for some adventurers.
Maybe a more common dog to get then others? :)


Paizo scores again

4/5

When I heard Wizkids was doing the Pathfinder minis I was concerned, since they make Mageknight and that is hit or miss with good looking minis. Early pics looked poor, but the end product is great.

The bad:
Venomous snake is bright and weird (same color is on the spider, but looks fine there).
The Troll's mouth looks silly. I think I just prefer D&D trolls over the Pathfinder ones.
The Ogre (and orcs) skin lacks color depth, so it looks cartoony.
Of the 8 PCs, half are female, which I'm doubtful that's the demographic of how many female PCs are in play.
On that topic, the Cleric's gender is questionable.
I think the Lizardfolk and skeleton are the weakest link, and look the closest to Mageknight minis.
Of the smalls, they package goblins together (cool) and the gnome with the rat, which I got three of in my case. Three rats are great, but I sure don't need three very orange-haired gnomes (unless he casts some multiple image spell, but he's a fight so he's not doing that).
Goblins are cute. I've not decided if that's good or bad.

The good:
The touch of blood on the minotaurs axe- subtle, but wow!
The weapon switching giant I though would be gimicky is actually cool.
Many great sculpts and paint jobs (not just eyes, but pupils as well).
My favorites would be the ettin, succubus, medusa, spectre, human rogue, dwarf, chimera, manticore, vampire, and lich (which I got 2 of in my case).

I'm now hopeful of what's to come. Paizo seems to know what players want and I hope they provide it. D&D minis seemed to neglect certain monsters, such as of the 1400 minis they made they only made 1 satyr, but probably more than a dozen minotaurs (what fantasy world do minotaus outnumber satyrs 12 to 1?) Why were mind flayers and liches so hard to get? Why is there absolutely no faeries? (They are in the Monster Manual.)

Yes, I'm very pleased with my purchase, and I'll likely be getting a case of Runelord minis when they come out.

By the way, I didn't pick up the dragon like I thought I would, because when I went to the store I saw how little he was, and I didn't think he was worth the price.


3/5

The minis look amazing. The sculpts are fantastic. Everything has the classic Paizo look, and though I know not everyone is a fan I think the art direction for Pathfinder is great.

HOWEVER: I ordered (and received) a factory-sealed case and received a duplicate BRICK. Having played D&D minis for a looong time (and selling them as a manager of a FLGS), I understand collation and that duplicates are (unfortunately) unavoidable. But an entire identical brick -- within the same case -- really spoiled the case for me and prevented me from getting the full set. Not happy with the distribution, and I kinda feel cheated out of $80. At least I had a friend to hand over my duplicates to.

It's a shame, as the minis are otherwise 5-star quality -- and it will definitely make me gunshy about ordering a case of the Runelords expansion when it arrives. Why not just wait and get a guaranteed set from eBay?


Very pleased

5/5

I got my case of mini's today, and I must say i am more than happy.
It took all four bricks but I did get a complete set (nothing broken). The figures are good looking , there are some better than others but all acceptable. LOVE the DIRE RAT !!!! (got 3 may have to get 3 more) Would have liked the troll to be a little bigger and would have prefered 2 giants to two ettins but that's random for you. As far as distribution of figures got two or more of every figure except wolf, human ranger, half elf cleric, medusa chimaera(LRG) manticore (LRG) spider (LRG) Giant(LRG) succubus, and vampire. Of those I might be tempted to pick up the large spider the giant and maybe the wolf. All in all very happy will be looking foward to the next set.

As an aside the medusa is pictured with both a green snake and a white one is this a variation or is the white the only version?


Super-whamadine

5/5

Beautiful sculpts that are painted and ready to drop down on the gaming table to rumble. I ordered a case an nearly had a complete set by the time I opened the thrid brick leaving me one brick to gift to a lucky friend.

The ogre is currently my favorite model, though Seelah (the iconic paladin) has amazing detail.


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Fat Jozka wrote:


It seems sad that you are letting Wizkids and retailers to dictate how these are sold and not your loyal fan base.

Yeah! I want the whole set, one of each, and I want it all for twenty bucks!

:P

Fat Jozka wrote:


I agree with most people here that gambling with randomized packets may be novel for teenagers, but not for focused Dungeon Masters trying to enhance their game. It is just too expensive.

That is, as you might have read if you had read, the reason why they're random: Non-random doesn't work if you want half-decent prices and more than a handful of figures a year.

You can keep on claiming all day that either Paizo is being lied to and is too stupid to know it, or that they're lying to us, but I think it's more likely that they're telling us the truth.

In the end, it's reality that dictates how these are sold.

Paizo Employee CEO

Fat Jozka wrote:

At Paizocon, the word was that randomization was out.

It seems sad that you are letting Wizkids and retailers to dictate how these are sold and not your loyal fan base. I agree with most people here that gambling with randomized packets may be novel for teenagers, but not for focused Dungeon Masters trying to enhance their game. It is just too expensive. I have never been one to be shy about spending money here at Paizo to support your endeavours, even when I didn't necessarily desire a particular product. Heck, I even bought 8 of the Wizkid Hero packs to share. I am sorry that I cannot help you with this one.

Perhaps you can have a two-tiered approach. Sell random packets to retailers and simply open them up and sell them individually on the Paizo site. Then, perhaps, we can have the best of both worlds.

Thank you guys for all you do.

Just because the minis are being shipped in random boxes doesn't mean that you won't be able to buy singles here on paizo.com. We should have every mini from the set available, and those folks who don't wish to buy random packs will be able to buy the minis they want. The price will probably be slightly higher than buying the minis randomly, but it seems that a lot of customers have said in this thread that they are willing to pay more to get what they want. So we will take care of them here on paizo.com. We have been selling D&D singles since Harbinger and that won't change with Pathfinder Battles minis. We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I guess I'm a weird exception. I love everything pathfinder that paizo produces, I'll likely have 3 cases pre-ordered by the time December arrives. I'm already to the point in my minis collection I really don't need anymore, but frankly since I want paizo to succeed in all their ventures I'm buying them, cause hell you never know if they'll make something I may want out of this line. Point is if randomization is the price I have to pay to have the line I'm willing to pay it. Better randomized minis then NO MINIS AT ALL.

I don't think you're that much of an exception - those of us happy with the model have less to gain by expressing an opinion than those hoping to influence the line away from random distribution, however unachievable that goal is. I'm in the same boat as you - I've preordered two cases so far and there's a good chance a third will be added - if a subscription model ever eventuates with some kind of discount I'll definitely sign up for three or four every six months.

It seems to me that, even with international shipping, I'm going to be paying under $4 per mini and given the proportion of large figures within that, that's pretty good. I would imagine the aftermarket is going to give the 'I don't do random' crowd a broad selection at a reasonable price. Especially given the intention (if I understand things right) of making the goblins, orcs and skeletons common and the karzoug, liches and demon lords rare.

Can I ask Paizo (about six-twelve months to early, but still..) whether it's going to be acceptable to post a thread here offering to sell individual minis (with or without a pricelist)? That'd be in direct competition with your online store, of course, but I dont know if it's something you're happy with.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I don't think that WizKids releases that info, and I don't know what it is, with one exception: a case should give you very nearly one of each rare.

For $275 per case, I would hope I'd get every one of them in a case, not "very nearly" all of them. I'm not about to spend that much money on a hope, not in today's economy and job uncertainty.

That's the part of the random model I refuse to buy into. DDM broke me of that. Even if it is the best model from which to sell prepainted minis, find alternatives. Don't prepaint them then or at least offer the option of (cheaper?) unpainted minis. How much money would that save Paizo and WizKids, and could (would) you pass that along?
Let those that enjoy painting (or repainting painted) minis do so, and those that can't or don't want to paint miniatures can use their imaginations. I don't know. It might make the most business sense to sell minis that way, but from a consumer's perspective, it's an expensive model only the well-off can afford to perpetuate.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I love how there are several people complaining about the price of these. I realize that I made a post earlier in this thread to the extent of *facepalm* but that was before I noticed that they are producing a second set for next year. My main beef was that they are only packaging one figure for $4. Sure this set seems kind of steep price wise and only because you are paying $4 for a 'chance' to get the figure you want whereas you can spend anywhere from $8 to $15 dollars on a figure that you can see and probably will have to paint. But wait, Paizo is going to sell singles? To me this changes everything because while the secondary market may be more expensive, Paizo has the opportunity to direct it. Why would I spend $15 for a rare (insert random figure here) when I could spend $10 at this site? That was an example but I'm hoping you get the point. Another thing to note, Wizkids is already doing a Heroclicks set using this same strategy (selling single figures for around $4), something to keep in mind.

Also, the following quote may be useful "You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time."


ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
We've already announced we'll be offering singles here at paizo.com, just like we did—and still do—with D&D minis.
Huh, it's like I just said you don't actually care about the FLGS....

FLGSs? They can go to hell. Especially those who are mismanaged by some guy who has no business running a business, and then when it all fails around them they blame everyone except themselves, and demand that the RPG companies "care for them" and help them.

The decent ones - the ones run by people who know what they're doing - will stick around.

They will probably turn a profit from these figures, too.

Maybe they will buy a bunch of cases, open them, and sell the figures single. And if they won't, I guess it's because they don't think it pays off.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Varl wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
I don't think that WizKids releases that info, and I don't know what it is, with one exception: a case should give you very nearly one of each rare.

For $275 per case, I would hope I'd get every one of them in a case, not "very nearly" all of them. I'm not about to spend that much money on a hope, not in today's economy and job uncertainty.

That's the part of the random model I refuse to buy into. DDM broke me of that. Even if it is the best model from which to sell prepainted minis, find alternatives. Don't prepaint them then or at least offer the option of (cheaper?) unpainted minis. How much money would that save Paizo and WizKids, and could (would) you pass that along?
Let those that enjoy painting (or repainting painted) minis do so, and those that can't or don't want to paint miniatures can use their imaginations. I don't know. It might make the most business sense to sell minis that way, but from a consumer's perspective, it's an expensive model only the well-off can afford to perpetuate.

If you are interested in painting figures, then Reaper has a fine selection of metal figures.


VagrantWhisper wrote:

All in all though, I think on a practical level, it's hard to make a legitimate comparison. The closest I could find is if you used a service like Blue Table Painting on a GW Miniature. The scults unfortunately though are still in a completely different class, and that's going to factor alot into the "value" of the model.

Single warrior or chaos ($42, pack of 12) so $3.50 per mini.
Level 2, BTP - $5 (Level 2 Example. Still more detailed than a normal pre-painted.

So about $8.50 for a basic GW painted mini.

Not bad actually, all things considered.

This is a little off-topic, sort of.

I followed Blue Table Painting for a while, but got sidetracked and haven't kept up with what they're up to.
I just noticed your link for their level 2 painting example and I'm sad to see that they're passing off a "dipped" miniature as a "painted" miniature.
However, one thing that it does show, is the effect you can get if you "dip" or wash all of these pre-painted miniatures. It adds shadows and depth to the whole miniature.
And heck, you can accomplish the same thing if you buy pewter (or plastic) miniatures, give them a basecoat colour and dip or wash them too. It's really not that hard and you get a decent result.


deinol wrote:


1) Wizkids is about the only company which produces PPMs, they must be doing something right.

Not the only. Reaper (or, rather, Asylum) does PPM, too. They have a veritable flood of releases.

Oh, no, I used the wrong word. This isn't my native language. What I meant is "trickle". Because flood would have implied lots and lots of new releases. Trickle is better because it implies hardly any release.

Because that's what happens with Legendary Encounters. The figures that they do release are great - I have most if not all of them (I pass on the dinosaurs, but I'm not sure they're out yet).

But after Heroes & Monsters, PFB will have a bigger range of miniatures than LE. And LE has been around for quite some time now (I think they started with this in '08).

So while the non-random PPM thing can work, it seems that you can't expect a lot of variety.

And let's take a look at the prices. Your average character type (dwarf warrior, bugbear, etc) start at 4.99. Some are 5.29 or 4.49. The bigger stuff (can't call them large - they're larger than medium, but not quite what Pathfinder would consider large) are somewhere around (or beyond) the 6$ line.

The young dragon and purple worm go for 6.99 each.

I don't know how big the cerberus and cyclops are, but they apparently go for 17.49

So the 3.99 / 5.99 price points don't seem to work for non-random, either.

Liberty's Edge

I love you Paizo! Gamer heaven baby!


KaeYoss wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
We've already announced we'll be offering singles here at paizo.com, just like we did—and still do—with D&D minis.
Huh, it's like I just said you don't actually care about the FLGS....

FLGSs? They can go to hell. Especially those who are mismanaged by some guy who has no business running a business, and then when it all fails around them they blame everyone except themselves, and demand that the RPG companies "care for them" and help them.

The decent ones - the ones run by people who know what they're doing - will stick around.

They will probably turn a profit from these figures, too.

Maybe they will buy a bunch of cases, open them, and sell the figures single. And if they won't, I guess it's because they don't think it pays off.

Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it. In my limited experience, 2 of the three gaming stores I've frequented were run by rude, maladjusted neckbeards who felt qualified to act like complete jerks to their customers because they sold a niche product you couldn't find anywhere else. Then, shockingly, they began to throw themselves about businessmen being put out by internet sales. The third was helpful and polite, and, most importantly facilitated events, and I still frequent the business from time to time (and, to my knowledge the store is a success).

I don't feel that we owe FLGSs anything if they haven't done anything to earn our patronage. I'm all for supporting the community, but only when it deserves it.


Vic Wertz wrote:


I will note that one of those two sets includes a heavily armed and armored black woman.

I shall engage my powers of prescience and predict the name of that woman.

Seelah!


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Varl wrote:
For $275 per case, I would hope I'd get every one of them in a case, not "very nearly" all of them. I'm not about to spend that much money on a hope, not in today's economy and job uncertainty.

Let me be the first to say that if buying a case full of plastic toys for your magical elf game of choice makes you pause and consider the economy and your own job uncertainty, maybe spending $275 on a case isn't a great idea. Priorities. Tuck that wad of bills under a mattress or something. It just isn't the sort of purchase you should make if you're living on anything less than stable financial ground.


A question - why are the boosters small, just one Medium in size? Given the same economies that drive randomization, couldn't a box of 5-6 have a better per-mini price (like D&D minis did)?

Grand Lodge

Hi Paizo,

First of all as someone just now starting a Pathfinder campaign, new PF minis is awesome news. One case please, with Black Dragon of course.

Now Paizo, your principle market will be DMs; very limiting. Without a really cool miniatures game to go with these miniatures then many, many players will NOT have any desire to buy your minis. So I recommend that you design a miniatures game with stats designed specifically for Paizo miniatures using as much of Pathfinder's uniqueness as possible. Offer the rules free with a sample game and a few stats as a pdf download. Then a full download with the first set's stats for a nominal price. If it takes off you could print a deck of stat cards not unlike a deck of RotR items.

My motivation for this idea is simple. I want Paizo miniatures to be ridiculously succesful. Because if Paizo is making insane money on these miniatures there is a very high probability that Paizo will keep making more and more sets.

Later,

Mazra


Pazio: I am very happy to hear this news. I am also happy to hear of your marketing format which will ensure long term prosperity of the line.

I of course would love to buy these mini's individually, but the reality of the PPM market is that it is too cost prohibitive to make large releases that are available for sale individually. You have very well covered off all the reasons why a random mini marketing method is necessary.

My concern though is that there are no rarities. This is what really drives the after-sales markets (eBay retailers). For those that like the thrill of "gambling" when they open up their packs, this "thrill" is significantly reduced. I have done a LOT of research into the marketing of PPM's and although I 100% support your decision to make the sets random, I am concerned that the longetivity of the line may suffer due to the lack of rarity. I know eBay retailers bought a huge amount of the DDM's and I believe they will not see the same profit margins available to justify buying in significant lots.

Your chosen marketing method shows me that you have put a lot of thought into the marketing of the line and I hope I am wrong. Should you not see as significant of sales as you had hoped in this first release, I then ask that you seriously consider implementing "rarity" into the marketing scheme. Also to boost sales, I would highly recommend making these "limited runs". This helps to drive a sense of urgency to purchase them, knowing that they will not always be produced / available.

Readers: Before you complain about the randomization of the line, read the PRESS RELEASE and the FAQ's that Paizo produced! The reality is that randmization makes the difference between marketing 4 miniatures a year versus 60-100 per year. If you can't afford the minis then print out some cheap 1 dimensional tokens to move around your maps.

For those that don't like random minis, do not worry. Go to eBay and you can buy whatever you want.


Velderan wrote:
Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it.

Always.

They need to realise that if they want our custom, they need to compete for it. If you want my custom, you must compete for it. If you expect your competition to fight your fight for you, against themselves, you only fight their fight for them against yourself.


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


My concern though is that there are no rarities.

The way I read it, there will be, indeed, rarities.

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


For those that don't like random minis, do not worry. Go to eBay and you can buy whatever you want.

Or the Paizo store.


KaeYoss wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
We've already announced we'll be offering singles here at paizo.com, just like we did—and still do—with D&D minis.
Huh, it's like I just said you don't actually care about the FLGS....

FLGSs? They can go to hell. Especially those who are mismanaged by some guy who has no business running a business, and then when it all fails around them they blame everyone except themselves, and demand that the RPG companies "care for them" and help them.

The decent ones - the ones run by people who know what they're doing - will stick around.

They will probably turn a profit from these figures, too.

Maybe they will buy a bunch of cases, open them, and sell the figures single. And if they won't, I guess it's because they don't think it pays off.

After I have gone into not one, but TWO game stores that are among the very few within 200 miles of my home that carry every 4th ed product and literally NOTHING from Paizo (other than map packs and flip mats), despite having obscure and esoteric titles from tiny, fly-by-night rpg companies, I say to hell with them as well. Those that know how to run a business will adapt and thrive, the others can join the elevator operators and buggywhip makers in the unemployment line.


Product Question: Case purchase

I saw reference that "retailers" who buy a case get the dragon with it. I was about to pre-order a case on the Paizo website but I do not see anything that indicates that I would also get the dragon. Does this mean the only way I can get the dragon is to buy it from a retailer?


Ernest Mueller wrote:
A question - why are the boosters small, just one Medium in size? Given the same economies that drive randomization, couldn't a box of 5-6 have a better per-mini price (like D&D minis did)?

If I had to guess, they are set up this way so their pricing could be low enough to attract random impulse purchases while people are just browsing the store. I can see myself easily just throwing in a single pack along with my random store purchases each week, but it is much harder for me to just throw in a $15+ purchase unless I went to the store with the explicit purpose of buying the package.

With the current pricing scheme, I can see myself purchasing more with smaller packs than with larger ones.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

Product Question: Case purchase

I saw reference that "retailers" who buy a case get the dragon with it. I was about to pre-order a case on the Paizo website but I do not see anything that indicates that I would also get the dragon. Does this mean the only way I can get the dragon is to buy it from a retailer?

Vic answered that here.
Vic Wertz wrote:
We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.

Scarab Sages

Hey Lisa or Vic!

I'm sure this has already been asked, but do you have any idea when the full list of minis in the first set will be out?

Although, sadly, I won't be buying a case, since it's either that or PaizoCon 2012. Still, I plan on at least acquiring some of the minis.


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
My concern though is that there are no rarities. This is what really drives the after-sales markets (eBay retailers). For those that like the thrill of "gambling" when they open up their packs, this "thrill" is significantly reduced. I have done a LOT of research into the marketing of PPM's and although I 100% support your decision to make the sets random, I am concerned that the longetivity of the line may suffer due to the lack of rarity. I know eBay retailers bought a huge amount of the DDM's and I believe they will not see the same profit margins available to justify buying in significant lots.

There are rarities.

Dark Archive

Seems like the same questions are being asked 100's of times here. They have almost all been answered many times if people just take the time to read the posts and the FAQ.


The internet is an amazing font of knowledge, right at your fingertips.

A font that people ignore, despite having their questions already answered multiple times and the source conveniently provided for them in the very first post....


some drink from the font of knowledge while others mearly gargle.

Scarab Sages

And some go for a swim in the font of trolldom....


Scott Betts wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
This is a reason why YOU should figure out how to make it work price wise, NOT how to gouge us so you can have your figure line.

I don't think you know what the word "gouge" means. If you're being charged a price commensurate with the cost of developing, manufacturing, and marketing the item in question, you're not being gouged.

Though I'd love to hear your suggestions on how you would put a pre-painted plastic minis line for Pathfinder together.

One, I don't think that pre-painted randoms is the way to go. As was stated previously in this thread, the mold is the expensive part. Plenty of companies do non randoms and have it work.

Dark Archive

GentleGiant wrote:

I followed Blue Table Painting for a while, but got sidetracked and haven't kept up with what they're up to.

I just noticed your link for their level 2 painting example and I'm sad to see that they're passing off a "dipped" miniature as a "painted" miniature.
However, one thing that it does show, is the effect you can get if you "dip" or wash all of these pre-painted miniatures. It adds shadows and depth to the whole miniature.

I agree on the dipping, not my cup of tea - but having said that, let me tell you sir, a bit of Devlan Mud wash and some of the pre-painted models can look AWESOME.

I plan on trying a few of the new Paizo mini's with a wash too, I imagine they will come out look fantastic.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
This is a reason why YOU should figure out how to make it work price wise, NOT how to gouge us so you can have your figure line.

I don't think you know what the word "gouge" means. If you're being charged a price commensurate with the cost of developing, manufacturing, and marketing the item in question, you're not being gouged.

Though I'd love to hear your suggestions on how you would put a pre-painted plastic minis line for Pathfinder together.

Now Scott, didn't you know? Gouge means "more than I want to pay."

*rolls eyes*

I buy minis from Games Workshop, Reaper, and Wyrd mostly. RARELY do you get a fig from them cheaper than these, though you can with Reaper.


Vic Wertz wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
..stuff...
You've clearly already made up your mind about our company and our products, so I won't even bother responding to your comments. I hope you find another company who will cater to your desires.

You are right, but not in the way you think. I buy one game line, and it's yours. This isn't an "I hate you." If it was, I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't buy from your webpage. This is a "I love you guys, but this particular product is b#+~$+@$ to me." You guys market yourself as the company who listens to their fans, so, I said what I thought was crap. When I like something you do, I don't post, I buy it. Maybe that's the wrong way to do it?


Lisa Stevens wrote:

Just because the minis are being shipped in random boxes doesn't mean that you won't be able to buy singles here on paizo.com. We should have every mini from the set available, and those folks who don't wish to buy random packs will be able to buy the minis they want. The price will probably be slightly higher than buying the minis randomly, but it seems that a lot of customers have said in this thread that they are willing to pay more to get what they want. So we will take care of them here on paizo.com. We have been selling D&D singles since Harbinger and that won't change with Pathfinder Battles minis. We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

Why not just sell them that way from the beginning then? Why not let game stores order the ones they want at a wholesale price, if they want to sell them retail and have the space for it?


Aberzombie wrote:
And some go for a swim in the font of trolldom....

I wasn't trying to troll. It was more of an ill attempt at humor. Sorry if I offended you.


Velderan wrote:
I don't feel that we owe FLGSs anything if they haven't done anything to earn our patronage. I'm all for supporting the community, but only when it deserves it.

I don't either, but when every successful gaming store you know of (My # is 3) that has been around for a long time, carries Paizo products, and they all recognize that their sales on these will be stomped by Paizo selling select singles, while they have to open randoms, I think it's a crap move by Paizo.

Also, let me go on record as saying I in no way, shape, or form believe for one second Paizo will be opening random packs. I would bet my bottom dollar that if we could see the contract, Paizo can order the figs as they see fit, NOT random.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

Just because the minis are being shipped in random boxes doesn't mean that you won't be able to buy singles here on paizo.com. We should have every mini from the set available, and those folks who don't wish to buy random packs will be able to buy the minis they want. The price will probably be slightly higher than buying the minis randomly, but it seems that a lot of customers have said in this thread that they are willing to pay more to get what they want. So we will take care of them here on paizo.com. We have been selling D&D singles since Harbinger and that won't change with Pathfinder Battles minis. We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

Why not just sell them that way from the beginning then? Why not let game stores order the ones they want at a wholesale price, if they want to sell them retail and have the space for it?

Because if they aren't random they don't make as many minis.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:


Also, let me go on record as saying I in no way, shape, or form believe for one second Paizo will be opening random packs. I would bet my bottom dollar that if we could see the contract, Paizo can order the figs as they see fit, NOT random.

So, you're on record as calling Lisa a liar. Nice.


Justin Franklin wrote:
Because if they aren't random they don't make as many minis.

Uh, yes, that is my point. Nor would the end user have to buy more than they need to get what they need.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Reckless wrote:
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:


Also, let me go on record as saying I in no way, shape, or form believe for one second Paizo will be opening random packs. I would bet my bottom dollar that if we could see the contract, Paizo can order the figs as they see fit, NOT random.

So, you're on record as calling Lisa a liar. Nice.

You know...

Years ago, the company I worked for handled the contract for a large customer, sharing it with another customer.

One of the members of that contract was rude and so bad the other company said they'd not cover her anymore, so the company gave her to us.

In six months, she was so rude and abusive that we told the company she was not to call in, and all her questions had to go through them.

She was a 75 year old crazy as a bat retiree.

What gecko needs to learn is that yes, businesses want customers, sometimes though they're not worth the cash tehy bring in.


Kurgon wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
And some go for a swim in the font of trolldom....
I wasn't trying to troll. It was more of an ill attempt at humor. Sorry if I offended you.

I thought it was funny....


Reckless wrote:
So, you're on record as calling Lisa a liar. Nice.

Did she say directly that the would NOT be doing that? I missed it if anyone did.

That said, if anyone at Paizo said they are licensing a product that they cannot buy in the fashion that is most beneficial to them, I would not believe it. That would be bad business, and I haven't seen bad business out of Paizo, ever.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lisa Stevens wrote:

We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

This is what she said. Right before you went "on record" that they wouldn't be doing that.

EDIT: Also, you quoted this in the post just above your post denying they would be doing this, so, you might want to slow your roll, and give yourself a little break. Seems this topic is getting under your skin a bit.


Matthew Morris wrote:
What gecko needs to learn is that yes, businesses want customers, sometimes though they're not worth the cash tehy bring in.

I think its...interesting...that me critiquing/hating on this product makes me a bad customer.

I also find it interesting that this thread is so black and white. Can I not hate ONE thing Paizo does while still being a fan? I think the product is a good one, but I think the marketing is BS. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be here (Which makes the bossman telling me to shop elsewhere upthread weird to me).

Also, talking about me in third person when I am obviously in thread makes you look just as bad as you're saying I do, FYI.


Reckless wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

This is what she said. Right before you went "on record" that they wouldn't be doing that.

Honestly, I missed that. Still don't believe it.


Goodnight Paizo world. I look forward to see where this thread went between now and when I get home from work tomorrow afternoon.

(Just don't want anyone to think I'm ignoring them.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

This is what she said. Right before you went "on record" that they wouldn't be doing that.
Honestly, I missed that. Still don't believe it.

Ok, so you are calling her a liar. Gotcha. Your call, of course. Have a good night.


Vic Wertz wrote:
We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.

I just want to chime in and say that I REALLY hope you're seriously considering selling that dragon on its own, directly. I don't mind it costing something in the $25-50 range--I'd buy it. I happily purchased both the Colossal Red and Gargantuan Black Dragons from the D&D Iconics line when they were relatively easy to get (I didn't get the blue or Drizzt/White Dragon ones because I think D&D blue and white dragons look bad), and I'd gladly do the same here. But I'm probably not going to spend $275 on 40 other random minis to get it. I've, at this point, got a pretty wide selection of minis from various sources, and am not planning to get more en masse. I'll likely peruse the set lists for individual minis and pick up a few here and there that I think are particularly cool, and I might get some of those encounter packs if they fill gaps in my collection, but I don't need that kind of volume of new minis (or that kind of expense!).

Hell, I've never even found a legitimate use for either of those D&D Iconic dragons in a game I ran, and I'm still glad I got them. They sit on either side of my desktop monitor at home, guarding my speakers, and they look awesome just for their decorative value. That paint master looks to be up to pretty much the same standards, and I'd be glad to pay a similar price.

Edit: I should add that I did pre-order the PBBH 4-pack, and am looking forward to getting them this fall. And I don't even play Pathfinder!

I say this not because I think it will be impossible to buy by itself--I'm sure there will be no shortage of enterprising souls that would make it available for purchase themselves. But when that's the only avenue to get something like this, the price tends to get rather horribly inflated, and while I'd buy it for $25-50 without regret, I wouldn't spend $75-150 on it, especially when none of that cost benefits the company that actually makes it (i.e. Paizo and WizKids).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

Just because the minis are being shipped in random boxes doesn't mean that you won't be able to buy singles here on paizo.com. We should have every mini from the set available, and those folks who don't wish to buy random packs will be able to buy the minis they want. The price will probably be slightly higher than buying the minis randomly, but it seems that a lot of customers have said in this thread that they are willing to pay more to get what they want. So we will take care of them here on paizo.com. We have been selling D&D singles since Harbinger and that won't change with Pathfinder Battles minis. We'll be tearing the boxes open and putting them online pretty much as soon as the street date hits.

-Lisa

Why not just sell them that way from the beginning then? Why not let game stores order the ones they want at a wholesale price, if they want to sell them retail and have the space for it?
Quote:
Quote:
Because if they aren't random they don't make as many minis.
Uh, yes, that is my point. Nor would the end user have to buy more than they need to get what they need.

The way they've set it up, you don't have to buy randomised packs, provided you're comfortable paying more - you wait until Paizo open their x number of cases and list a whole bunch of singles you can buy and you get the twenty (or whatever) you want for presumably a similar, higher price, that you'd be paying if they managed to find a way to make non-random minis. The advantage with the current arrangement rather than your way is that the number of different minis on offer is greater. You don't actually lose anything - provided you're really prepared to pay more for non-randomness.

Those of us who want lots of minis (and will be expanding the after-market for you) get to buy them cheaper than we would under your system and we get the diversity we want.

How does anyone miss out this way? I'm confused.

EDIT: I guess you miss out if you think there's a way to make cheap, nonrandom minis. I just dont see why someone wouldnt do that, if it were at all possible - hence it seems likely to me that such a scenario is not realistic.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ThatWeirdGeckoGuy wrote:
One, I don't think that pre-painted randoms is the way to go.

You can think whatever you want. This is the only way the model works.

Quote:
As was stated previously in this thread, the mold is the expensive part. Plenty of companies do non randoms and have it work.

No, they don't. They produce a handful of minis at a time. That's not good enough. Paizo needs a full line of minis, sufficient to provide players with everything they might need to run a game. To do that, they have to produce extensive sets, including monsters both common and exotic. To do that, you have to have random sets with varying rarities.

You can complain about it all you want, but you're not going to find a solution anywhere else. This is the only place you will be able to go to get a full line of pre-painted plastic miniatures for playing D&D/Pathfinder.


VagrantWhisper wrote:
GentleGiant wrote:

I followed Blue Table Painting for a while, but got sidetracked and haven't kept up with what they're up to.

I just noticed your link for their level 2 painting example and I'm sad to see that they're passing off a "dipped" miniature as a "painted" miniature.
However, one thing that it does show, is the effect you can get if you "dip" or wash all of these pre-painted miniatures. It adds shadows and depth to the whole miniature.

I agree on the dipping, not my cup of tea - but having said that, let me tell you sir, a bit of Devlan Mud wash and some of the pre-painted models can look AWESOME.

I plan on trying a few of the new Paizo mini's with a wash too, I imagine they will come out look fantastic.

I don't really mind dipping (or rather, brushing the dip on), but a painting service should be honest about it if that's the method they use.

Although we have a couple of experienced painters in our group (Gworeth on these boards have painted most of the minis we use, along with some from my own hand), time is becoming a scarcity (pesky job and family obligations), so we might go the prepainted way (for monsters anyway). And yes, a wash with e.g. Devlan Mud would really bring these pre-paints to life.

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