Elvish Fighter

Kelvar Silvermace's page

Goblin Squad Member. Adventure Path Charter Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 541 posts (592 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 4 aliases.


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Hey, Paizo. Loved the playtest podcast with the folks at Glass Cannon (and glad to have been introduced to GCP). I'm cautiously optimistic about the new rules and I enjoyed playtesting the original Pathfinder rules.

I'm curious about Gen Con. They have released their schedule of events and I don't see any entries for chances to play the Pathfinder Second Edition playtest (and very few entries for Starfinder). Are there going to be opportunities to play the new playtest rules at Gen Con and if so, do you have a rough idea of when they'll be posted on the Gen Con website so we can sign up?


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Kojin wrote:
I just placed my order for a physical copy of Pathfinder 2.0 and I plan on having it shipped to me, but I was wondering how likely it is to arrive before GenCon 2018 this year so I'd like to have it with me during the convention. I'm hoping I can get it before I go and look it over, but if it won't arrive until after the con I wonder if it might make more sense to take the time to wait in line and pick the book up at GenCon itself.

If it is like Starfinder, then Gen Con itself will be your first chance to pick it up. That's what I selected. (And if it is anything like Starfinder, they will sell every additional copy they bring to Gen Con, so pre-ordering is wise).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I know there are several different ways to build this already, with multiclassing and prestige classes, but I would love to see a 20 level Wizard/Rogue type character. Something like an Arcane Trickster, but where you have some minor spellcasting and Rogue abilities right at level one. Almost like an arcane version of an Inquisitor. Maybe they get up to 6th level spells by level 17 or 19 or so.

I was really hoping this would be one of the classes in the Advanced Class Guide, but no such luck. (That's still an excellent book, though).


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

I don't think we have plans to release miniatures of our actual deities... it's not like they walk around in physical form in our world, or we expect people to encounter them on their home planes a la Planescape.

I just stumbled across this while looking for information about a miniature for a priestess of Desna--or anyone with a starknife.

Funny the difference a couple of years can make:
Cayden Cailean

Lamashtu

:-)


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Rise of the Runelords. No question about it. Runelords rocked.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

For a Dwarf, I would think yes, adamantine would be better than mithral. The benefit of mithral (armor) is that it can make heavy armor medium and thus not affect one's movement rate (or am I thinking medium to light?)--but Dwarves are not slowed down by heavy armor.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Not to oversimplify, but I think it comes down to this:

What do you, the GM, think would be more interesting? If having male harpies is more interesting, then why not? Rule 1 is the only rule that matters here.


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Ooh! Excellent suggestions! Thanks!


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Anyone?


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Alright, folks, I follow the belief that you should try to give your players chances for their characters to shine, which means letting them do what they do best and letting them do cool and exciting things. For example, if you have a rogue who likes to sneak, every now and then you
should try to give him a chance to sneak in somewhere.

I wanted to come up with an elaborate heist scenario comparable to Ocean’s Eleven. But I suck at complicated plots, so instead I came up with a simpler “sneak in, sneak out” caper. But I need help to make it challenging—but not too challenging. Here’s the scenario:

I have four 10th level player characters, (Normally five PCs plus an NPC female cleric of Desna, but for various reasons the next few sessions will only involve four PCs). They are:

A female dwarven Ranger (with the shape shifter archetype from the Advanced Player’s Guide) who focuses on light crossbow and has a wolf animal companion;

A male human Inquisitor of Cayden Cailean;

A male half-elf Rogue 9/Wizard 1; and

A female elven Wizard (Universal, but strongly favors evocation).

(The PC who is absent is a male human fighter)

The half-elf and the elf were originally from Magnimar where they worked as a sort of a husband and wife Robin Hood duo—stealing from unscrupulous wealthy people and giving to the poor. Both enjoy doing stealthy, sneaky sorts of things when they get a chance. In so doing, they earned the enmity of a mid level Sczarni boss named Milo Scarnetti. As part of their back-story, before the campaign started they had bested Milo and left him naked, bound and gagged on a ship bound for Absalom.

Their back-story has nothing to do with the campaign, but it occasionally crops up. Most recently, a couple of months ago (in game time) the entire party was secretly drugged and woke up naked and locked up on a pirate ship bound for the Flesh Fairs of Okeno. It sounds heavy-handed, I know, but I know my players and they enjoyed it—especially since they ended up escaping, trouncing the pirates and claiming the ship as their own (which they have since turned over to some of their followers to engage in smuggling/legitimate commerce).

Naturally, it was Milo Scarnetti who orchestrated the abduction and now they’re looking for some payback. They are trying to tread carefully, though, because the fighter’s (NPC) sister is the leader of a local group of cat burglars and they don’t want to make trouble for her. (She doesn’t normally adventure with the party, but she is helpful from time to time). They decided that the best way to get back at Milo would be if they could implicate him and have his own family/organization (the Sczarni) turn on him.

Last session, I had the sister, Natalya, tell the party that Gradon Scarnetti (one of the Sczarni elite in Magnimar) is expecting a delivery by ship which should arrive the following night. The item is a painting by a famous painter from Absalom—it was a portrait of a Scarnetti matriarch, and happens to have been the last thing the guy ever painted, because he died under mysterious circumstances shortly afterward. The painting has a lot of intrinsic value both because of the painter and because it was his last work. But it has even greater value to the Scarnetti family due to the specific subject. Gradon very much wants the painting to display in the Scarnetti family Villa. The painting will remain on board the ship overnight (because . . . reasons?) and will be unloaded the following morning.

Natalya proposed they sneak on board the ship, steal the painting, then sneak into Milo’s mansion and place it in his vault. Her underlings have also been spreading misinformation on the streets that Milo has been skimming off the top and not turning over the family’s fair share of his ill-gotten gains. The notion is that when the painting is discovered to be missing, Gradon will be angry, will search for it (with magical aid?) and when he finds it in Milo’s possession, it will not go well for Milo.

What I like about the plan is that it requires them to sneak into two different locations. I’ve also planted the seed that Milo has a unique set of lock picks, and if one of them was left on the ship, it would help to sell the notion of his treachery. So if they want to do that, they would first have to sneak into Milo’s place, steal the lockpicks, sneak back out, then go steal the painting and sneak back in. I guess I’m going for a vibe similar to the computer game "Thief".

Here are my concerns:

I want this to be a challenge, but I also want them to feel like capable adventurers. They should have a chance to feel like badasses. This isn’t the main plotline, just a brief interlude. So I need it to feel realistically challenging, yet easy enough that they can pull it off with some panache. In my world, 10th level characters are fairly rare and they should feel like they are somewhat extraordinary. I don’t really want the opposition to be more than 6th or 7th level (maybe 8th at the most), but I want them to behave logically and I want to maintain verisimilitude.

At that level, considering both Milo and the people shipping the painting, what are some precautions they might take, knowing that there are people out there who might want to steal from them and who might be able to: fly, turn invisible, teleport, etc.? One thing that occurred to me is that on the bottom deck of the ship (where the painting is, naturally), there could be a passageway enclosed at both ends by beaded curtains and the floor could be covered in sawdust. The notion is that if someone—even an invisible someone—wants to pass through, he will find it difficult to do without revealing his presence. Maybe there are guards there who have potions of see invisibility. If they see the curtains moving or footprints in the sawdust, they pop the potions and draw their weapons. Is that too hard? Not hard enough? I want it to be possible for the PCs do this without getting into combat if they’re smart about it.

What about at Milo’s house? What sort of precautions help to sell the idea that this guy is prepared, without necessarily thwarting the PCs?

Any advice is welcome.


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Awesome! Thanks for the quick response!

Out of curiosity, what page was that on? (I have every version--the original AP volumes, the hardbound anniversary edition and the big deluxe tome thingy).


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I'm currently running this and my group is currently at the same point. Where does it say how soon the giants will be there? All I recall is seeing the note from Mokmurian to Barl Breakbones--which doesn't give us much of an idea.

I imagine that a big group of giants and bears moving over land probably can't travel that fast. My group has a Wizard with Teleport and a (NPC) Cleric of Desna with the Travel Domain, so she also has Teleport. Fortunately my players *were* concerned about Sandpoint, so they just teleported there--although they would certainly like to go to Magnimar for some shopping if time permits.

I'm having trouble reckoning distances, too. How far is Sandpoint from Turtleback Ferry/Fort Rannick?


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

"Rogues are so under-powered as to be unplayable."

Nope. Our Rogue holds his own and often dishes out astonishing damage with his sneak attack. He doesn't steal the show, but neither does anyone else. He also contributes in a lot of meaningful ways outside of combat.


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LazarX wrote:

Personally I think the problem is that the costumed superhero gig is an extremely poor fit in Pathfinder in general. (Although to be fair, Galt has had at least one costumed hero in the guise of the Red Raven, or quite likely a succession of heroes playing the same role.)

Don't forget about Blackjack from Korvosa.

pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Blackjack (Couldn't get the link to work)

There is certainly a difference between superheroes and *masked* heroes. I think the Vigilante is more of the latter. Although, contrary to some assumptions, nothing says he has to be masked.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:


This really is the Batman class, and the flavor feels forced on us.

Don't you mean the *Blackjack* class? ;-)

(Also sort of reminds me of Zorro)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I actually like the Flip Mats like this one that offer a "blank" back (a grid on a plain background in a color that matches the reverse). They are helpful because you can't possibly have a Flip Mat that matches every need. The back of this one is good for drawing a city with a different layout, or it can also serve to draw a dungeon. I find this one to be one of the more versatile ones in the line, precisely because it is "blank" on the back.

Similarly, I believe it was the Theatre that has a "blank" reverse that just looks like wooden floors. That one is good for any kind of indoor map in an urban area, so it can be the inside of an Inn, a Thieves' Guild, a warehouse. . .whatever you need.

One thing I wish they had mentioned about this Flip Mat is that Paizo also makes (made?) a companion Map Pack that you could use to show the *interior* of each of the buildings on here. For me that made this one immensely more useful than it would have been otherwise. I am a fan of the whole line, but this one remains a favorite.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

My wife, who has a master's degree in geology with an emphasis in speleology (caves) suggested that perhaps they could partially subsist on crayfish. Especially if they had a breeding population of them. Crayfish eat small insects, somehow even the dwarves' waste is helpful here. Not sure I totally get what that's about. Not sure I want to.

Anyway, food for thought.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Rothe as mentioned above. Also, it may not seem very Dwarf-like, but I could imagine subterranean races eating new (fantasy variety) mosses and lichens. Maybe salads of mosses, lichens and mushrooms. . .

What about large caverns with bio-luminescent lichens on the ceilings that generate a lot of light. . . and then varieties of plants and vegetables evolve that feed on that light much like real world plants use sunlight? It may not be 100% consistent with science, but it also doesn't seem like a huge departure either.


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WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:


There is already a Mounted Alain mini, which is in the Wrath of the Righteous Battles set. Do we really need another large sized Cavalier on a horse mini? For just a horse by itself, I find that a toy store farm/zoo set works wonerfully for animals. A medium sized one, in a future Battles set, would be nice for those of us who have the Halfling or Wayang Cavaliers.

I *do* want just a horse--a horse with a saddle, bridle, saddlebags, etc. that looks like it could be a PC's (or NPC's) horse. I hear what you're saying about being able to find horses elsewhere, but they never look quite right and rarely have the right tack or equipment to look like they belong in a fantasy game. They also always have such a different aesthetic. I don't know, maybe I'm too anal about such things.

I understand Vic's point, though, and even if it were otherwise, it probably would be too much to ask for such a focused themed product as the Iconic Heroes line. In the regular Pathfinder Battles line, however. . . (crosses fingers)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I think it should be able to do anything a level 1 commoner could do. This is one of those spells that I always feel like could be really useful with a sufficiently creative application, but I can never think of how. I'm afraid that may be a reflection on me. ;-)


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

If you want to kill their characters because you're annoyed at how powerful they are, then you should rethink your plans.

If you want to kill their characters because you don't want them to interfere with the progress you have planned for your character's story arc, then have you considered actually just talking to the players outside the game and out of character? If you approach them like, "Hey, guys, I really want my character to fall to Lawful Evil and it will be cool because [reasons]. Once we've explored that, my plan is for him to return to Lawful Good. Can we work out a way for him to do that without the whole party turning against each other?"

I mean, the game sometimes is thought of as collaborative story telling. So, you know, *collaborate*.


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"Hollow's Last Hope" and "Crypt of the Everflame" are among my favorite Paizo adventures.

For old school, I really enjoyed "Horror on The Hill." (I think it was either 1st Edition or Basic D&D).


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I love Sandpoint. I will buy anything and everything related to Sandpoint. Shadows Under Sandpoint AP? Yes, please! Notable Sandpoint NPC Miniatures Pack? Sign me up! Commemorative "See Yourself As We See You" Mirror? Where's my credit card!? Flip-Mat of The Rusty Dragon? I'm in. Das Korvut's toenail clippings? Okay, maybe not *everything* from Sandpoint. . .


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

With regard to the visual effects of spells, I think it is fun to occasionally throw in something different. Maybe most of the time one person's fireball looks just like the next guy's. But every now and then it is fun to throw in something more interesting.

I once played an Elven Fighter/Mage whose last name was "Goldenstar" (cheesy, perhaps, but I liked it). Whenever he cast Magic Missile, the missiles looked like golden stars with glittering gold trails. This was first edition and my DM at the time made me spend time and gold to do research just to change the visuals like that. But I did it and it was worth it to me to give that character a sort of "signature" spell.

In the Rise of the Runelords game that I'm GMing, I have an NPC Cleric of Desna to be the group's healer (no one wanted to play a Cleric). Since she has the Travel domain, she can cast "Fly". So whenever she casts "Fly" I have it so that it looks like she sprouts large blue/green diaphanous butterfly wings. It fits with being a follower of Desna and it doesn't change the power of what that spell can do. It also helps to distinguish a Cleric's version of Fly from other Fly spells. It also adds flavor and reinforces that Clerics of different deities are different.

On topic--I really, *really* liked Reserve Feats for spells.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Kelvar Silvermace wrote:
Vampires are usually depicted as being charismatic and sociable.
I see someone who's never run a Brujah, Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Malkavian. :)

I said *usually*. :-) Of all the times vampires have been "depicted", very few of those times involved the clans from White Wolf's game. Nosferatu are a possible exception, and I'm not an expert on vampires, so I can't speak to how they are depicted outside of WW games.

But, still--point well taken! :-)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Vampires are usually depicted as being charismatic and sociable. There is no inherent conflict there. If you're concerned about your character being depressed about being undead, then yeah, I could see that. What about him being gloomy for a while and then finally coming to terms with it and returning to his old self (more or less)?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Yeah, I think that's what dastana does. If I remember correctly, I had a lightly armored character and I wanted to use them in lieu of a buckler (not in addition to). If memory serves, yeah, they could be enchanted--and possibly they would stack with shields/bucklers, so I can see why that would be a problem. But my thought was to say you can use either dastana *or* a shield, but not both--like wearing 3 magic rings.


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FatR wrote:


This is not crazy, this is not overpowered, and considering that Monkey Grip did in fact feature a -2 penalty, taking it was and is nerfing your character for the sake of pure flavor.

And that flavor is *cheese.*

This is so frustrating to me, because I recently saw a thread around here somewhere where someone talked about his character who somehow dual-wielded greatswords in a Pathfinder game. I was scratching my head trying to figure out how he did it (and shaking my head at the ridiculous image). No one else called him out on it. I wish I had. Now I can't find the thread.

On topic: Does anyone else think dastana from 3.5 was overpowered? (I think it was from the Arms and Equipment Guide or something). My DM at the time said so.


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So, if it works with bows, then I suppose I can just "shift the grip" on my *crossbow* and have it do bludgeoning damage?

I don't buy the "it's a fantasy game, therefore logic doesn't apply" argument. I hate to use the "v" word (verisimilitude), but for me, at least, I expect even a fantasy world to have some internal logic and believability. It is a world where magic exists, yes, and weird monsters, but it should otherwise be familiar and plausible. Just because magic exists doesn't mean every goofy thing imaginable is possible, just because some interpretation of a rule might suggest it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I agree with everyone else--with one exception: I *do* think it is possible for a white dragon's breath to blow a hat off. It should be like a horrible gust of cold air--worse than anything we have on Earth, in all likelihood. If that can't blow your hat off, then it isn't much of a dragon.

Also, where are these drawbacks located?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Robert Little wrote:
Nate Z wrote:
Robert Little wrote:
No love for Donahan...sigh.
Who?
Donahan is Alain's horse.

Since the other animal companions, familiars, eidolons, etc. are getting a mini, any chance of getting just the horse without Alain? (It would be nice, because then it could also substitute for a PC's horse).


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I've been waiting for something like this for so long! I've been kicking myself for not getting the pirate ship when it was available.

Paizo, I *warship* you. ;-)


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Part of me wants to say "Korvosa" because I can't stand Hellknights. On the other hand, they have an abundance of pseudodragons, so I'm conflicted. . .


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Would it be crazy for me to ask which one you think would be more interesting to play. You know, from a roleplaying perspective?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I once had the party in my game taken prisoner. I was reluctant to do it, because I share the concerns raised above about railroading. What really surprised me was. . . the players *loved* it. We were going through Rise of the Runelords and the party was in Magnimar and I had this happen as a tangent completely unrelated to the storyline. I did it because of the back stories of two of the PCs, who were two self-styled Robin Hood types who had run afoul of the Sczarni and had (before the game began) captured a lower level Sczarni boss and left him tied up among the cargo of a ship headed for Absalom.

Now, I don’t think back stories should be entirely forgotten, and at a minimum I like to use them for inspiration to try to make the world seem a bit more real. So I had them drinking at their favorite local pub in Magnimar and they had an inkling that something was amiss, because the owner and his wife were not present. Only the serving girl, Clara, was there and she gave some fairly thin excuse about why the owner and his wife were away (which was very unusual for them). They all ordered their food and drink, which Clara brought them and they consumed. Turns out, the drinks were poisoned and knocked them all unconscious.

The explanation (which they never really investigated, but which I have sort of fleshed out, at least in my own mind) is that the Sczarni they abducted, a guy I named Milo Scarnetti, managed to put the fear of the Sczarni in the crew of that cargo ship and they arranged his return to Magnimar. Once he was back in Magnimar, Milo reached out to his contacts and started gathering information on the group. He determined that they were fairly “powerful” (I think they were around 6th or 7th level at this point), so he hired a splinter faction of the Tower Girls (contrary to their leader’s wishes and without her knowledge) who in turned hired an expert on this type of deception. That person (who is a 3.5 Beguiler, updated to Pathfinder) came to the inn and overpowered the innkeeper, his wife and Clara the serving the girl (she tied and gagged them and left them upstairs). She then used Disguise Self or similar magic and assumed the role of Clara. She poisoned the drinks and arranged for the Tower Girls to come in and carry out the sleeping heroes. The PCs missed several rolls to pick up on various clues about what was going on and they displayed a decided lack of interest in anything other than treating opponents like treasure-filled piñatas. There being no obvious enemies here, they were seemingly in a hurry to get to the next battle. Then they woke up naked in a cell in the lower part of a slave ship bound for the Fleshfairs of Okeno.

Sometimes bad things can be overcome with good things. Being railroaded is bad. Getting a reason to really hate a bad guy (and then getting even) can be *very* good. As I expected, they quickly figured out a way to escape and then laid into the pirates who were manning the ship. They’ve yet to get even with Milo, but I’m sure they will.

So I think the railroading is okay, so long as it is used sparingly and used to help make the story more compelling. So far the group still says that was the part of the campaign they’ve enjoyed the most. I think it may have been because I was off script. Or, at least, I was off the AP’s script and on my own. The important thing is they had fun. (Did I mention they killed the crap out of every pirate on board?). Every group is different, though, and you should gauge what you do based on what you think they’ll enjoy. Although heavy handed from a game mechanics perspective, the events at least made sense, because it happened when they were in their comfort zone (their favorite inn) and they let their guard down. It worked because if it happened in a book it would seem plausible.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
rungok wrote:
Kelvar Silvermace wrote:


"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna as she existed immediately before I began making this wish, and further providing that there shall be no consequences that I would deem negative, if, based on my present state of mind and faculties, I had prior knowledge of the full outcome of this wish."

I approve of this. Let me throw this past my lawyer friend and see if he comes up with a loophole.

I'd be curious to know what your friend thinks. I am a lawyer, so I feel like I've got the chops for this kind of thing.

That being said, I'm just playing along with the thread. I don't think a wish (or any 9th level spell) should ever be that powerful. If I were the GM, it wouldn't work. Or at least, it wouldn't work as intended. Maybe the wisher gets an audience with his patron deity who lays out a series of near impossible tasks that--if completed--could lead the character to become a demi-god. And that could be a campaign all on its own. . .


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
chbgraphicarts wrote:
rungok wrote:

Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!

Here's my attempt to write a wish:

"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."

...

How'd I do?

The Goddess Desna appears before you, now frail, withered, and in a vegetative state, an eternal soul trapped in an unfeeling, undying husk. You fall to the ground in an exact mirror of the goddess. Hope you enjoy eternity being unable to scream...

How about "I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna as she existed immediately before I began making this wish."

OR

"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna as she existed immediately before I began making this wish, and further providing that there shall be no consequences that I would deem negative, if, based on my present state of mind and faculties, I had prior knowledge of the full outcome of this wish."


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Draconic Pedantic Pundit, The wrote:
Kelvar Silvermace wrote:
What does a dragon do for fun? There's no internet or television.

This becomes remarkably less of a problem once you learn Greater Scrying.

Of course, learning Greater Scrying is something that comes only with age. Many of the less patient of our kind will prefer to not wait until they are of proper age and instead procure a crystal ball (preferably with all the neat upgrades that makes manipulating watching those curious little mortals so fun.)

Of course, crystal balls don't exactly come cheap. And there you have the real thing many of my kindred gather all that coin for.

But even Greater Scrying just allows you to watch, correct? Surely that isn't as much fun as playing an elaborate game with the mortal kingdoms as pawns? Why be a mere spectator when you can be a participant? Why be a participant when you can be the puppet master?

Edit: I didn't notice the word that was lined out. Perhaps you're agreeing with me?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pin-holes in the curtain of night?"

This won't sound very scientific of me, but perhaps some mysteries are better left unanswered?

We're talking about a game. I hope. What kind of dragon is more interesting? I like the hoarding dragon. In fact, I like it so much that when I GM I usually make sure that some of the best magic items to be found in the whole campaign will be found (if at all) in a dragon hoard. Not because it is logical, but because of the fantastic and romantic notion of the greedy dragon and his hoard.

If another GM prefers dragons who live spartan, ascetic lives with little regard for material wealth, then he should certainly play them that way.

Are we trying to justify the stereotype or are we asking why the stereotype is so popular? It is popular because of Tolkien.

I can think of many reasons why dragons might hoard and many excellent ones have been proffered above. To some extent, I almost find it more fun when it isn't analyzed in a clinical fashion. Who cares? Or, "because that's how I like 'em!"

If we must come up with a reason, I like a combined, layered, answer. On a very primal, perhaps subconscious level, they just feel compelled to hoard valuables. Maybe there is some mystical connection to the very first dragons.

On another level, it *is* an extension of their personal power. You can't kill and eat everyone. Gold buys influence. Even if you can eat everyone, with enough influence you don't have to. Sure, a dragon's raw strength and arcane prowess can give him an undeniable edge in pulling the strings of power among the "lesser" races, but gold goes even further. A manipulative red dragon might be bribing the power behind the throne. And the power behind the power behind the throne. And the Captain of the Watch. And the Guildmaster of the Thieves' Guild. And the Harbor Master. And the girl who peels potatoes in the King's cousin's scullery. In this way, his power isn't just as far as he can reach with his claws, tail, teeth, wings, breath, spells, etc., but instead goes farther than anyone (besides the dragon) actually realizes. The tendrils of his gold-bought treachery might wind throughout this kingdom and the next, thanks to the weakness and foibles of the mortals with whom he toys.

If that's the case, then we have (to me) a more interesting question: does he manipulate people because he craves power. . . or simply because it entertains him?

What does a dragon do for fun? There's no internet or television. Sure, we might be more scared of a brutal assault, but for a powerful creature that is both evil and a genius, perhaps the slow burn is more satisfying. Dragons live for centuries or millennia. I could see a particularly ruthless and wickedly brilliant dragon setting up the chess pieces to put two good-aligned nations at each other's throats and savoring the payoff as tens of thousands of mortals die, not from dragonfire, but by each other's hands.

It is more complex than any game of chess. It is brilliant. It is evil. It is. . .expensive. Gold can buy many things. If it can buy decades of entertainment and the deaths of untold numbers of self-righteous "lesser" beings, then why *wouldn't* a dragon want gold? Who says he keeps it all? He has to spend it, but he spends it slowly and only where it can do the most "good". And because he is an enterprising beast, he makes sure he keeps some coin flowing back in as well. This also explains why he'd want plenty of smaller coins. Some of the people he is bribing are better bribed with hundreds of silver pieces than with rare works of art.

Because he is vain, brilliant and nigh-immortal, he needs many forms of entertainment. So he'll keep the very best pieces for his own enjoyment. Artwork, sculptures, rare wines, flawless gems, magic items--whether useful, whimsical or just entertaining--they all have a place in his lair.


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At some point, your GM made a mistake. For one thing, he should have told you up front that this was a campaign with a focus on diplomacy and intrigue--assuming it *is* that sort of campaign. I'm assuming that's the case, as opposed to a typical campaign where the other players are simply taking an unusual approach. In a typical campaign, there are plenty of opportunities for combat and those are the times when a Barbarian usually shines.

Another mistake your GM may have made is this: whether he told you up front that it was going to be this sort of campaign or not, he should try to find ways to give everyone a chance to contribute. In Pathfinder, it shouldn't be difficult to find a use for a Barbarian.


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Covert Operator wrote:
Armored Coat wrote:
ARMORED COAT: This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining. An armored coat is more cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors. The advantage of it is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no "don hastily" option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top.

So what these tell us is that when you wear two suits of armour, the Amour Bonus to AC doesn't stack, and you use the worse value in all other categories. "DR 3/- against ranged piercing attacks" isn't a category, so it stacks.

I respectfully disagree. I think what this tells us is that *an armored coat* can be worn over other armor. I don't think we can extrapolate that to mean that *any* type of armor can be worn over any other type of armor. However, you could certainly wear an armored coat over quilted cloth to achieve the desired effect.


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I agree with those who said that what this character did does not sound like an evil act. Even if it were, if I were GM, I don't think that I would let one event change a character's alignment (unless it were something really heinous, like eating a kitten).

One thing a lot of people don't seem to understand is just because a character is evil, it doesn't mean he has no self control. The greatest evil is one that can bide its time and wait for just the right moment to strike.

Being evil doesn't mean you are compelled to kill someone just because you *can.* A well played--but rational--evil character could function for a long time, possibly even a whole campaign, alongside the heroes if he had a personal motivation to do it.

Too many people who want to *play* evil characters actually do a pretty poor job of roleplaying. They actually are just disruptive players who want to use their characters' alignment to justify their disruptive, spotlight-seeking behavior. They are the type of people who will have their characters sneak out and murder people for no reason. True, there are people in real life who do such things, but they tend to be the exception rather than the norm.

Imagine an evil character who is intelligent and rational. Would he or she go and kill someone just because? Where there is no reward, financial or otherwise? When there is a risk of being caught and punished? Again, there are some who will. But I think the great majority of evil people would only kill if--in their calculations--the risk was worth the reward. They wouldn't hesitate out of any respect for life, but they *would* hesitate if they thought killing the person could be risky or if there might be some retribution or simply because they decide the payout isn't worth it. But sneaking out and killing people randomly because "my alignment made me do it" is generally poor roleplaying and poor teamwork. (I acknowledge this is a tangent, because that isn't what happened here).


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They may take our money, but they'll never take. . .our *Charter status*!

(Unless, you know, they decide to).


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Covert Operator wrote:
Wear Quilted Cloth underneath your normal armour.

Do the rules allow this? That seems kind of over-powered. . .


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arcanine wrote:
Why don't GM's allow evil characters? I remember he said something like " you can do what ever you want, when your evil." I will admit I have not looked up on how a evil Character is suppose to act. But I would assume they could do just about anything. Is it to powerful of a alignment?

No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

*Not* more powerful. You will know the good from the bad when you are calm, at peace, passive.


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Lemartes wrote:
Not a huge fan of Wayne Renolds but Quinn is one of his drawings I like.

I love Wayne Reynolds' artwork. His style really brings these characters to life. That being said, I do sometimes wonder if he is paid by the number of distinct items a character has strapped to him. Guy can't seem to help himself. Just once I'd love to see WAR do a character who is wearing armor, has a weapon in hand and (maybe) a dagger or something on his belt. Instead, we get a guy who, before venturing into the dungeon, has strapped on:

7 daggers, 5 potion bottles, a backpack, bedroll, beltpouch, fanny-pack, frying pan, slide rule, commemorative beer stein, sextant, ketchup dispenser, garden spade, abacus, French press coffee maker, hedge shears, pocket watch with chain, Hello Kitty™ alarm clock, garage door opener, embroidered opera gloves and a George Foreman Grill™.

Sometimes less is more. I'd like to see WAR use his formidable skills to depict characters who look like they could actually run in their gear, carry it a great distance and--possibly--sneak around without sounding like an experimental Victorian aircraft flying into a combination windchime/glass figurine boutique.

(Note: This mildly exaggerated example is not directed at the drawing of Quinn, but at WAR's characters generally).


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I always thought spell research was to create entirely new spells. However, I am excited about the idea that research could allow one to add an existing spell from a different list. After reading this thread I consulted the books and it still isn't clear to me.

Is there any official word on whether one may add a spell from a different list?

If so, can any spell caster do this, provided that he or she follows the guidelines? For example, does it matter if we're talking arcane or divine? Prepared versus spontaneous caster? Full spell-casting class versus a six or four level casting class?

Could I have an Inquisitor who learns Produce Flame or Burning Hands? A Paladin who learns Magic Missile or Entangle? A Bard who learns Lightning Bolt? A Cleric who learns Web?

If this is possible then this solves many of the "problems" I have in trying to figure out how to build the type of character I've been dying to play for years.

I really like the idea of an Inquisitor who adds just two or three minor Evocation/Conjuration spells to his list. . .


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trailofdead wrote:

I am running the Runelords campaign. Last night the party was fighting the cultist in the sawmill. Just as they meet Justice Ironbriar, one of the PC's decides to light the sawmill on fire.

Explosions occur. . .

Why would anything at the sawmill explode?


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Liches be crazy.

:
Sorry. I couldn't resist. I can only recall one occasion in which I encountered a lich. I was playing a very high level game way back in undergrad (a long time ago, back in the day when one could watch music videos on television and groups like The Stone Temple Pilots, Blind Melon and Smashing Pumpkins ruled the airwaves) and my party was very overpowered in a way I might find unsatisfying now. Anyway, my Paladin fumbled and dropped his awesome two-handed Holy Sword, so he just grabbed the lich and we used whatever passed for grappling rules back then. I recall that I got the lich in a headlock and then I broke off his leg and proceeded to beat him with it. It was funny at the time. Don't drink and game.

A lich could have an army, but the classic stereotype probably calls for a bunch of skeletons, zombies, ghouls and other forms of corporeal undead. He may have some lieutenants who are more powerful skeletal warriors, or what have you.

I don't know if there is any set formula, but I'd expect one to be able to cast 6th level spells, at a minimum. Liches are always depicted as being fairly powerful spellcasters whose ambition drives them to do unspeakable things in their quest for immortality.

I don't think martial characters can do it. However, I do not recall where skeletal warriors, death knights, etc. come from. *Searches* Hmm...looks like Death Knights are made undead by someone (or some *thing*) other than themselves.

While a lich could certainly place the phylactery *inside* a Bag of Holding, I don't think it would be a good choice for the bag itself to *be* the phylactery. Seems like it would be too fragile.


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Gaberlunzie wrote:
Ragnarok Aeon wrote:
There's a big difference between sexual preference and gender identity. One is an interest the other is how you present yourself.
Of course (though gender identity is a bit more than how you present yourself); I don't know if your post was a response to mine though, which was a response to meatrace's post above.

That's right. How one presents oneself may or may not be consistent with one's gender identity. Trans people can be (and often are) closeted, too, often for many of the same reasons as gay, lesbian and bisexual people. It is just that the secret is not related to who one loves, but to who one *is*.

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