Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)

3.50/5 (based on 41 ratings)
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)
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Seize the initiative and chop your foes to pieces with this exhaustive guide to the art of martial combat in this exciting new rulebook for the smash-hit Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, suitable for players and Game Masters alike!

This comprehensive 256-page hardcover reference reveals the martial secrets of the Pathfinder RPG rules like never before! Tons of new tricks and techniques for combat-oriented character classes put a sharp edge on your weapons and a sure step in your tactics, ranging from new barbarian rage powers, new cavalier orders, tons of new rogue talents, and more than 60 new archetypes for nearly every Pathfinder RPG character class, including spellcasters like wizards and clerics.

Ultimate Combat also introduces three new Pathfinder RPG classes: the ninja, samurai, and gunslinger! The ninja blends the subterfuge of the rogue with high-flying martial arts and assassination techniques. The samurai is an unstoppable armored warrior who lives by a strong code of honor—with or without a master. The gunslinger combines the fighter's martial prowess with a new grit mechanic that allows her to pull off fantastic acts with a pistol or rifle. All this plus tons of new armor and weapons, a complete treatment of firearms in the Pathfinder RPG, a vast array of martial arts, finishing moves, vehicle combat, duels, and new combat-oriented spells for every spellcasting class in the game!

Ultimate Combat includes:

  • New player character options for 14 Pathfinder RPG base classes, including alchemist discoveries, barbarian rage powers, cavalier orders, combat-cleric archetypes, animal shaman druids, new fighter archetypes like gladiator and armor master, inquisitor archetypes like witch-hunter or spellbreaker, combat-themed magus arcana, monk archetypes based on mastery of martial arts, new paladin archetypes like angelic warrior, ranger archetypes like big game hunter and trapper, new rogue tricks, and wizard archetypes like the gunmage
  • The ninja, samurai, and gunslinger, brand-new 20-level alternate classes specially designed to get the most out of combat
  • Hundreds of new combat-oriented feats including martial arts feat trees, finishing moves, and combination feats
  • In-depth overviews on a variety of combat-related topics, such as armor, Asian weapons, duels, fighting schools, guns, siege weapons, and more
  • A complete system covering vehicle combat, including wagons, boats, airships, and more
  • Tons of optional combat rules like called shots, armor as damage reduction, and new ways to track character health
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-359-0

Errata
Last Updated - 8/20/2015

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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3.50/5 (based on 41 ratings)

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Ultimate eastern and guns

2/5

I had wrote a quite lengthy review but the system ate it so here are the highlights:
1) The book is all about asian stuff and guns.
2) Don't buy it if you don't like either stuff.
3) The book has a lot good spells.
4) Most of the asian stuff mechanics work.
5) Gun rules don't work most of the times in APs and modules (they can't handle guns at mid+ levels).
6) The book had quite a few editing issues when it first came out, second printing corrected most of them but not all.
7) The art is superb.
8) Even if you don't like guns and eastern stuff you should buy the pdf since the price of the pdf is very good and you should get some use out it.


More Options ! more fighting, ... MORE !

5/5

flavorful options, powerful options
classes, archetypes, feats...

while 100% of the boook might not please you, you want this book.

having the choice to build flavorful PC with the right options is priceless (and for this book, you have...)


great reference book

4/5

Great reference book that helps further explain combat rules but it is not without its flaws.


Helping to close the caster/everyone else gap

4/5

Raise your hand if you play or run melee classes. Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Rogues, Paladins, pretty much anything without 9 levels of spells. Is your hand raised?

Now look around. Does the person next to you NOT have their hand raised? No they don't? Quickly! Use your raised hand to smack them in the face! Ha! Now you've shown the pansy finger wigglers the power of combat characters. Now make them go away so you can read your reviews in peace.

Ultimate Combat serves some great functions in the scope of the PF:RPG.

It helps bring non-casters a little more in line with the potential power of casters in the metagame by adding a slew of new feats and archtypes directly relevant to them. How much milage you get from these may vary, but lest you think they're all just blow off concepts, I know for certainty at least 1 Magus, 1 Monk, and 1 Inquistor archtype from this book that are definitely considered competative for 'best build to get the most out of this class' in the guides and discussions I've read on the Paizo forums, and they added some Bard ones that are just interestingly different (Try the archeologist bard if you want to play a bard/rogue cross. Try to resist the temptation to use a whip... or don't. ;) )

The spells section brings about some new toys for all casters but it did try and keep a combat focus, that was nice for the 4 and 6 spell level casters. If you're a Paladin or Inquisitor look into the new Litany line you'll probably find something you like, as will most other classes.

The Gunslinger is an interesting addition to the core classes and I think a positive one because it adds a new dynamic to how combat can work, and does a good job putting firearms in a magical setting that could allow them. If they're not your cup of tea it's easy to just dissallow them in your campaign or keep their rarity higher, but if you're playing in PFS/Golarion it's good to have in case you want to travel to regions they're thematic for.

The Asian inspired new classes, the Samurai and Ninja, are also positive additions. Some debate arises with the Ninja, it truly does do what the Rogue does only some solid arguements can be made it does it better, I know several players who now build "Rogues" using the Ninja class. However looking at the current metagame of Pathfinder Rogues were often much malagined as one of the least powerful classes, I'm not going to fault Paizo for offering a potential alterantive that rocks!

Rounding out the book it offers some rules and stats on siege weapons and warfare, and expanded vehicle rules and vehicle combat rules, along with dozens of new weapons and armor. The first two can really assist a GM, and the last gives you options from different places (asian themed) and times (stone age, bronze age, for example).

I can't give this book 5 stars, Ultimate Magic was a bit better, and it's not on par with what the APG did, but in the end what is it? It's a solid 4. Unless you play just casters and only casters you probably won't be dissappointed, because it's a solid book that does what you want it to do, and you'll feel like the money was worth it 9 times out of 10.


1/5

Ultimate? Combat?

Neither of the words in the title really apply to this book. Ultimate Monk or Piecemail Combat fit much better. Overall, this book is about as good as Ultimate Magic. A lot of material that is useless (or unfinished/untested) that only applies to a class or two, and there is a lot of material that seems artificially injected to fill space, but really only further highlights the Ultimate Combat material that is not present.

All Classes will find something in this book, mostly poor, but there are a few gems. Sadly, I think that the writers forgot that this was suppossed to be a Combat themed book. Monk gets about 500% more than everyone else (combined?) Many of the Archtypes are pretty good, solid options, but still some classes get a lot and some get a few, and it tends to be the same Classes that get few and the same Classes that get many.

A lot of good spells, (that makes Ultimate Magic even more worthless), but I' starting to really question Paizo's ideas of balance and understanding the lines between Arcane/Divine, amongst other things. A lot of Magus and Paladin love, as well as Monks (yes Monks), but not too much for Combat focused Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Oracles.

If there where a 0 Stars option, I would pick that, simply because this is the absolute wrong way to go with a Hardcover "core" book. If they would drop the Asian themed stuff, and maybe the Monk-Onlyish Feats, this would have been a nice little softcover book, and maybe worth the price.


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Anyone know what the creature on the cover is called?

Contributor

Drake502 wrote:
Anyone know what the creature on the cover is called?

I believe those are yetis (though I'm sure Valeros has been called "creature" a few times in his life.)

The Exchange

Seems like there's a misprint in Ultimate Combat in the section on Musket Master Archetype Gunslingers (page 50)

Weapon Proficiency: A musket master only gains
proficiency with two-handed firearms. She must take the
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feat to gain proficiency
with two-handed firearms and firearm siege engines.

Seems like it should read

Weapon Proficiency: A musket master only gains
proficiency with two-handed firearms. She must take the
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feat to gain proficiency
with ONE-handed firearms and firearm siege engines.

or

Weapon Proficiency: A musket master only gains
proficiency with two-handed firearms. She must take the
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feat to gain proficiency
with all firearms.

Web Product Manager

This product now has a Lite pdf download option available. Learn more about it here!


Agronaut wrote:
Looking at the Martial Artist and I'm really digging it. However I did notice the lack of a ability at 12th level. This means they retain Abundant step, which they can't utilize without ki.

It's a known issue :)


SO...
Where's the donning table for the eastern armor?
the western armor is very specific about what armor takes how long to make, but there's no equivalent for the eastern armor.


Anyone know what the two white creatures they are fighting on the cover are? My group tells me they are yeti but they look to civilized, intelligent and more human than beast to be yeti.


Last I heard, they were yetis.

Strange yetis, but yetis nonetheless.

Shadow Lodge

Chris Ballard wrote:
I myself don't like guns in any setting real or otherwise.

Agreed. Guns make D&D boring and shouldn't be included in this book. it should have its own book or supplement like psionics.

Sczarni

Where do I have to post to get someone to give an official look at the range on the Double Barrel Musket? Its been reproduced a few times and the 10 ft. range just seems wrong. Its causing, I'm sure, a lot of arguments on your boards and in home games. Not to mention by the rules it completely makes PFS Double Barrel Muskets unreasonable. Someone just needs to give us a "Yes this is in fact the correct range" or "No, XX is supposed to be the correct range."


In the rules forum, and hitting the FAQ button.

Sczarni

This has been done a gazillion times and no one ever replies because not enough people hit the FAQ button. I just know its a mistake and everyone else agrees but no one wants to fix the information or even address it...


Speaking of this, it's been over a year now. Any salespeople (Monkies) able to mention whether or not this book is on the verge of another printing?

Webstore Gninja Minion

We don't announce reprints until they're in-house and ready to ship, at which point we'll update our PDFs with any errata that went into the reprint. So, no updates to speak of—sorry!


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hopefully they'll add an update on the Pistolero's pistol training ability and gun training. The question of whether or not you can get double Dex to damage keeps coming up...


If the Martial Artist archetype doesn't have a Ki pool, why is Abundant Step not replaced by another ability as it requires a ki expenditure? It seems that this would be something that such a monk wouldn't have if his training eschewed the monastic training required for ki. Am I missing something?


I wish I could see the sales numbers for this book. Already out almost over two years ago and still no official errata. This book must have bombed like crazy.

Digital Products Assistant

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The PDF for this product has been updated with errata from the second printing.


The erratum for Crane Wing not only fixes something that isn't broken but actually renders Crane Riposte null and void.

Oops.

Grand Lodge

blahpers wrote:

The erratum for Crane Wing not only fixes something that isn't broken but actually renders Crane Riposte null and void.

Oops.

I believe it would still play out as follows, you use the crane wing, if the attack that you called you were using crane wing on misses you, then you get an AoO.

Just a guess though, if one of the devs would feel free to chime in an clarify I would not object.

Dark Archive

I don't like it...i like the ability to chose my attack to block in moment not before round. I hope we can ditch it for free now that it sucks


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There is something very wierd going on with the Crane Style feat chain.

I have a pre-errata Ultimate Combat, with the pre-errata version of Crane Wing and Crane Riposte.

I have the errata for Ultimate Combat, which gives the errata for Crane Wing. Okay, so that means that I change the Crane Wing feat.

I have seen the FAQ/Update for Crane Riposte. Okay, so that means that I change the Crane Riposte feat.

I have just now seen the PRD's version of the Crane Style feat chain. The Crane Wing feat description there is the pre-errata one. The Crane Riposte version there bears no resemblance to the pre-errata version, nor to the FAQ/Update version. Instead, it looks like the errata for Crane Wing has been applied to Crane Riposte instead.

What is going on?!?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seriously, did I miss yet another errata? Can anyone point me at some official/semi-official ruling on what this chain of feats actually does now?

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
The PDF for this product has been updated with errata from the second printing.

So does that mean it's the second print that I snow shipping?


Quote:
So does that mean it's the second printing that I'm now shipping?

Thank GOD I'm not the only one who wishes this book gets a 2nd printing THIS YEAR! I really want to play a Titan Mauler but due to the wording of the archetype it isn't possible yet!


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

In Ultimate Combat, there is a HUGE mistake in the Kikko Armor (page 129) it say:
ARMOR COST ARMOR BONUS MAXIMUM DEX BONUS ARMOR CHECK PEN. ARCANE SPELL FAILURE

Kikko armor 30 gp +5 +4 -3 20%

BUT with the piecemeal armor variant rule (page 198-205), we get

Kikko ARM 5 gp +0 +5 -1 20%
Kikko LEG 10 gp +1 +3 -1 10%
Kikko TORSO 15 gp +2 +4 -3 20%

And the rule stated that when you have the 3 pieces (arm,leg & torso), we get a +1 in AC Bonus so we have
Kikko armor 30 gp +4 +3 -3 20%

Which one is the correct one? Because i did the maths with other armours and they all match,so far only Kikko has this mistake.

Is this a errata material?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just noticed something last night. My copy of UC is missing pages, in the spell section. (I treat my books well, so nothing has fallen out.) Is anybody else's copy missing pages?

I know it's 3 years since the book was released, I just never noticed before. :(

Paizo Employee Customer Service She-Hulk

ericthecleric wrote:

Just noticed something last night. My copy of UC is missing pages, in the spell section. (I treat my books well, so nothing has fallen out.) Is anybody else's copy missing pages?

I know it's 3 years since the book was released, I just never noticed before. :(

Hello ericthecleric,

I've just sent you an email regarding this issue. Let me know if there are any further questions or concerns that I can help out with in the meantime.

Thanks!
Katina

Community & Digital Content Director

The PDF version of this product is now updated to match the third printing.


A third printing already? Holy crap.


Chris Lambertz wrote:
The PDF version of this product is now updated to match the third printing.

Cool, I guess.

Is there a way I could purchase a PDF that matches the first printing? A game I am playing in uses the first printing rules, but the PRD only has the second printing (and will probably switch to third printing), and it's annoying not being able to access the rules.

I know you have a first printing PDF. And I have money. I don't care if it is full price, I'd be willing to pay full price for a PDF without the errata. Can I already do this? If not, is it being considered?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Are the non-mint copies third printings?


Wow, some serious changes in this one. Glad to see double-barreled pistols finally got nerfed out of ridiculousness. However, Feral Combat Training got nerfed (effects that augment unarmed strikes no longer apply to the weapon chosen with FCT) and Sap Adept also got nerfed (no longer applies a bonus to damage equal to double your sneak attack dice rolled).


137ben wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
The PDF version of this product is now updated to match the third printing.

Cool, I guess.

Is there a way I could purchase a PDF that matches the first printing? A game I am playing in uses the first printing rules, but the PRD only has the second printing (and will probably switch to third printing), and it's annoying not being able to access the rules.

I know you have a first printing PDF. And I have money. I don't care if it is full price, I'd be willing to pay full price for a PDF without the errata. Can I already do this? If not, is it being considered?

You could go at it the other way: get the third printing and the errata document for 'first to third printing' and mark the differences in reverse.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

At work, so I can't download the doc. Can anyone go over the changes for the Myrmidarch?


DM Sothal wrote:
137ben wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
The PDF version of this product is now updated to match the third printing.

Cool, I guess.

Is there a way I could purchase a PDF that matches the first printing? A game I am playing in uses the first printing rules, but the PRD only has the second printing (and will probably switch to third printing), and it's annoying not being able to access the rules.

I know you have a first printing PDF. And I have money. I don't care if it is full price, I'd be willing to pay full price for a PDF without the errata. Can I already do this? If not, is it being considered?

You could go at it the other way: get the third printing and the errata document for 'first to third printing' and mark the differences in reverse.

No, I can't. When the errata says "change the second paragraph of page X to the following" <new paragraph>, there's no way to determine what the text said in the first printing. The errata document indicates that something was changed, but it doesn't give enough information to deduce what the old text was.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
j b 200 wrote:
At work, so I can't download the doc. Can anyone go over the changes for the Myrmidarch?
Ultimate Combat Errata - Second Printing to Third Printing (v2.0) wrote:

• Page 56—In the Myrmidarch archetype, in the Ranged Spellstrike ability, replace the second paragraph with the following:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch can spend a full-round action to cast a spell that includes multiple ranged touch attacks and deliver more than one using ranged attacks. The spell must have a casting time of 1 full-round action or less. This functions similarly to the base ability of ranged spellstrike, but the myrmidarch can deliver a number of missiles, rays, or effect up to the number of attacks he could make with a full attack. Attacks beyond the first take penalties as if the myrmidarch were making a full attack. Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost, as are any additional ranged touch attacks the spell would allow beyond the myrmidarch’s maximum number of attacks. This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Community & Digital Content Director

137ben wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
The PDF version of this product is now updated to match the third printing.

Cool, I guess.

Is there a way I could purchase a PDF that matches the first printing? A game I am playing in uses the first printing rules, but the PRD only has the second printing (and will probably switch to third printing), and it's annoying not being able to access the rules.

I know you have a first printing PDF. And I have money. I don't care if it is full price, I'd be willing to pay full price for a PDF without the errata. Can I already do this? If not, is it being considered?

Currently this isn't something we offer. It's been brought up as a request only recently, and I don't have an answer for it yet.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
At work, so I can't download the doc. Can anyone go over the changes for the Myrmidarch?
Ultimate Combat Errata - Second Printing to Third Printing (v2.0) wrote:

• Page 56—In the Myrmidarch archetype, in the Ranged Spellstrike ability, replace the second paragraph with the following:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch can spend a full-round action to cast a spell that includes multiple ranged touch attacks and deliver more than one using ranged attacks. The spell must have a casting time of 1 full-round action or less. This functions similarly to the base ability of ranged spellstrike, but the myrmidarch can deliver a number of missiles, rays, or effect up to the number of attacks he could make with a full attack. Attacks beyond the first take penalties as if the myrmidarch were making a full attack. Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost, as are any additional ranged touch attacks the spell would allow beyond the myrmidarch’s maximum number of attacks. This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Thanks! It appears they already updated the PRD, so.... can't check to see how it changed.

Paizo Employee Designer

j b 200 wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
At work, so I can't download the doc. Can anyone go over the changes for the Myrmidarch?
Ultimate Combat Errata - Second Printing to Third Printing (v2.0) wrote:

• Page 56—In the Myrmidarch archetype, in the Ranged Spellstrike ability, replace the second paragraph with the following:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch can spend a full-round action to cast a spell that includes multiple ranged touch attacks and deliver more than one using ranged attacks. The spell must have a casting time of 1 full-round action or less. This functions similarly to the base ability of ranged spellstrike, but the myrmidarch can deliver a number of missiles, rays, or effect up to the number of attacks he could make with a full attack. Attacks beyond the first take penalties as if the myrmidarch were making a full attack. Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost, as are any additional ranged touch attacks the spell would allow beyond the myrmidarch’s maximum number of attacks. This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Thanks! It appears they already updated the PRD, so.... can't check to see how it changed.

That ability used to be nonfunctional, allowing you to shoot off rays from a spell with your full attack but granting no way to actually save those rays for the full attack or cast them together.


The 3rd printing lists Water Walk, Communal as a 2nd-level cleric and ranger spell, yet Water Walk is a 3rd-level cleric and ranger spell. I think this is a mistake and Communal Water Walk should stay as a 4th-level spell (unless you plan to reduce Water Walk to a 1st-level spell).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Scott, it's a weird case, but that's is what they intended:

Pathfinder Design Team said wrote:
Normally communal spells are 1 level higher because they split the duration but allow splitting a single target spell (the result is almost always an extremely powerful spell for its level, but that's a digression). Water walk already targeted multiple creatures and does not require dividing duration. So Communal water walk is just a worse version of water walk, and as a non-single-target spell, it shouldn't have received a communal version. Since removing the spell entirely would throw off lots of other things, our solution was to make it lower level instead, to reflect the fact that it is less powerful.

From: The Paizo Blog


Mark Seifter wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
At work, so I can't download the doc. Can anyone go over the changes for the Myrmidarch?
Ultimate Combat Errata - Second Printing to Third Printing (v2.0) wrote:

• Page 56—In the Myrmidarch archetype, in the Ranged Spellstrike ability, replace the second paragraph with the following:

At 11th level, a myrmidarch can spend a full-round action to cast a spell that includes multiple ranged touch attacks and deliver more than one using ranged attacks. The spell must have a casting time of 1 full-round action or less. This functions similarly to the base ability of ranged spellstrike, but the myrmidarch can deliver a number of missiles, rays, or effect up to the number of attacks he could make with a full attack. Attacks beyond the first take penalties as if the myrmidarch were making a full attack. Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost, as are any additional ranged touch attacks the spell would allow beyond the myrmidarch’s maximum number of attacks. This ability replaces spell recall and improved spell recall.

Thanks! It appears they already updated the PRD, so.... can't check to see how it changed.
That ability used to be nonfunctional, allowing you to shoot off rays from a spell with your full attack but granting no way to actually save those rays for the full attack or cast them together.

Many thanks to the Design Team for fixing this! The Myrmidarch has been a favorite archetype of mine for some time, but I was always sad that it had this broken ability. I was surprised that it didn't get fixed in the second edition.


Joe Wells wrote:
Scott, it's a weird case, but that's is what they intended:<snip>

Thanks Joe! I wish they had added that explanation in the errata. This is a case where 'why' is necessary to understand 'what'.

--- Scott

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
137ben wrote:

Is there a way I could purchase a PDF that matches the first printing? A game I am playing in uses the first printing rules, but the PRD only has the second printing (and will probably switch to third printing), and it's annoying not being able to access the rules.

I know you have a first printing PDF. And I have money. I don't care if it is full price, I'd be willing to pay full price for a PDF without the errata. Can I already do this? If not, is it being considered?

Currently this isn't something we offer. It's been brought up as a request only recently, and I don't have an answer for it yet.

The 'easiest' way to handle it might be to have something like the 'lite single file' versions of the old PDFs available alongside the various options for the current version (assuming the person purchased some version of the PDF).

Alternatively, you could have the PRD include links to prior versions (and related FAQs?) for things which have been changed.

Finally, you could include both the old and new text in future errata. This would make each errata longer, but allow them to be used in 'both directions'.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
Are the non-mint copies third printings?

Anyone able to answer this? I'd like to grab a non-mint updated version, if I can - otherwise I'll get a regular copy.


Reviewing a third party product and have a quick question. Can you apply shield feats to a weapon with the blocking quality? Like could you gain the benefits of shield specialization and improved shield bash while wielding tonfa?


So I'm guessing with the 3rd Printing the Titan Mauler archetype finally works now?


Berselius wrote:
So I'm guessing with the 3rd Printing the Titan Mauler archetype finally works now?

Anyone?


hey trying to find some information on the spell Jolting Portent in the spell it says you use either your wisdom (for clerics) or charisma (for oracles) and im trying to find out if you use the full wisdom score or just the modifier normally id go with just the mod (and did when it came up in my game but id like clarification)

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