Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)
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Seize the initiative and chop your foes to pieces with this exhaustive guide to the art of martial combat in this exciting new rulebook for the smash-hit Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, suitable for players and Game Masters alike!

This comprehensive 256-page hardcover reference reveals the martial secrets of the Pathfinder RPG rules like never before! Tons of new tricks and techniques for combat-oriented character classes put a sharp edge on your weapons and a sure step in your tactics, ranging from new barbarian rage powers, new cavalier orders, tons of new rogue talents, and more than 60 new archetypes for nearly every Pathfinder RPG character class, including spellcasters like wizards and clerics.

Ultimate Combat also introduces three new Pathfinder RPG classes: the ninja, samurai, and gunslinger! The ninja blends the subterfuge of the rogue with high-flying martial arts and assassination techniques. The samurai is an unstoppable armored warrior who lives by a strong code of honor—with or without a master. The gunslinger combines the fighter's martial prowess with a new grit mechanic that allows her to pull off fantastic acts with a pistol or rifle. All this plus tons of new armor and weapons, a complete treatment of firearms in the Pathfinder RPG, a vast array of martial arts, finishing moves, vehicle combat, duels, and new combat-oriented spells for every spellcasting class in the game!

Ultimate Combat includes:

  • New player character options for 14 Pathfinder RPG base classes, including alchemist discoveries, barbarian rage powers, cavalier orders, combat-cleric archetypes, animal shaman druids, new fighter archetypes like gladiator and armor master, inquisitor archetypes like witch-hunter or spellbreaker, combat-themed magus arcana, monk archetypes based on mastery of martial arts, new paladin archetypes like angelic warrior, ranger archetypes like big game hunter and trapper, new rogue tricks, and wizard archetypes like the gunmage
  • The ninja, samurai, and gunslinger, brand-new 20-level alternate classes specially designed to get the most out of combat
  • Hundreds of new combat-oriented feats including martial arts feat trees, finishing moves, and combination feats
  • In-depth overviews on a variety of combat-related topics, such as armor, Asian weapons, duels, fighting schools, guns, siege weapons, and more
  • A complete system covering vehicle combat, including wagons, boats, airships, and more
  • Tons of optional combat rules like called shots, armor as damage reduction, and new ways to track character health
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-359-0

Errata
Last Updated - 8/20/2015

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3.50/5 (based on 41 ratings)

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Ultimate eastern and guns

2/5

I had wrote a quite lengthy review but the system ate it so here are the highlights:
1) The book is all about asian stuff and guns.
2) Don't buy it if you don't like either stuff.
3) The book has a lot good spells.
4) Most of the asian stuff mechanics work.
5) Gun rules don't work most of the times in APs and modules (they can't handle guns at mid+ levels).
6) The book had quite a few editing issues when it first came out, second printing corrected most of them but not all.
7) The art is superb.
8) Even if you don't like guns and eastern stuff you should buy the pdf since the price of the pdf is very good and you should get some use out it.


More Options ! more fighting, ... MORE !

5/5

flavorful options, powerful options
classes, archetypes, feats...

while 100% of the boook might not please you, you want this book.

having the choice to build flavorful PC with the right options is priceless (and for this book, you have...)


great reference book

4/5

Great reference book that helps further explain combat rules but it is not without its flaws.


Helping to close the caster/everyone else gap

4/5

Raise your hand if you play or run melee classes. Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Rogues, Paladins, pretty much anything without 9 levels of spells. Is your hand raised?

Now look around. Does the person next to you NOT have their hand raised? No they don't? Quickly! Use your raised hand to smack them in the face! Ha! Now you've shown the pansy finger wigglers the power of combat characters. Now make them go away so you can read your reviews in peace.

Ultimate Combat serves some great functions in the scope of the PF:RPG.

It helps bring non-casters a little more in line with the potential power of casters in the metagame by adding a slew of new feats and archtypes directly relevant to them. How much milage you get from these may vary, but lest you think they're all just blow off concepts, I know for certainty at least 1 Magus, 1 Monk, and 1 Inquistor archtype from this book that are definitely considered competative for 'best build to get the most out of this class' in the guides and discussions I've read on the Paizo forums, and they added some Bard ones that are just interestingly different (Try the archeologist bard if you want to play a bard/rogue cross. Try to resist the temptation to use a whip... or don't. ;) )

The spells section brings about some new toys for all casters but it did try and keep a combat focus, that was nice for the 4 and 6 spell level casters. If you're a Paladin or Inquisitor look into the new Litany line you'll probably find something you like, as will most other classes.

The Gunslinger is an interesting addition to the core classes and I think a positive one because it adds a new dynamic to how combat can work, and does a good job putting firearms in a magical setting that could allow them. If they're not your cup of tea it's easy to just dissallow them in your campaign or keep their rarity higher, but if you're playing in PFS/Golarion it's good to have in case you want to travel to regions they're thematic for.

The Asian inspired new classes, the Samurai and Ninja, are also positive additions. Some debate arises with the Ninja, it truly does do what the Rogue does only some solid arguements can be made it does it better, I know several players who now build "Rogues" using the Ninja class. However looking at the current metagame of Pathfinder Rogues were often much malagined as one of the least powerful classes, I'm not going to fault Paizo for offering a potential alterantive that rocks!

Rounding out the book it offers some rules and stats on siege weapons and warfare, and expanded vehicle rules and vehicle combat rules, along with dozens of new weapons and armor. The first two can really assist a GM, and the last gives you options from different places (asian themed) and times (stone age, bronze age, for example).

I can't give this book 5 stars, Ultimate Magic was a bit better, and it's not on par with what the APG did, but in the end what is it? It's a solid 4. Unless you play just casters and only casters you probably won't be dissappointed, because it's a solid book that does what you want it to do, and you'll feel like the money was worth it 9 times out of 10.


1/5

Ultimate? Combat?

Neither of the words in the title really apply to this book. Ultimate Monk or Piecemail Combat fit much better. Overall, this book is about as good as Ultimate Magic. A lot of material that is useless (or unfinished/untested) that only applies to a class or two, and there is a lot of material that seems artificially injected to fill space, but really only further highlights the Ultimate Combat material that is not present.

All Classes will find something in this book, mostly poor, but there are a few gems. Sadly, I think that the writers forgot that this was suppossed to be a Combat themed book. Monk gets about 500% more than everyone else (combined?) Many of the Archtypes are pretty good, solid options, but still some classes get a lot and some get a few, and it tends to be the same Classes that get few and the same Classes that get many.

A lot of good spells, (that makes Ultimate Magic even more worthless), but I' starting to really question Paizo's ideas of balance and understanding the lines between Arcane/Divine, amongst other things. A lot of Magus and Paladin love, as well as Monks (yes Monks), but not too much for Combat focused Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Oracles.

If there where a 0 Stars option, I would pick that, simply because this is the absolute wrong way to go with a Hardcover "core" book. If they would drop the Asian themed stuff, and maybe the Monk-Onlyish Feats, this would have been a nice little softcover book, and maybe worth the price.


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Are they fighting yetis?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

KnightErrantJR wrote:
... I have images of parties composed completely of "Ultimate" and "Advanced" archetyped/feated/alternated characters tearing through encounters that would have been a challenge for Core Rulebook characters.

My current campaign consists almost entirely of APG classes... and you know what? We verified that core classes are core for a reason. APG classes are cool, but rogues and clerics sure are useful to have around!

weirmonken wrote:
My only disappointment was that when I saw this I thought we were going to see a whole slew of new product announcements and preorders. Hopefully this is just the first of many...

We'll be announcing the rest of the August products next month. We chose to announce this one early for two reasons: one, we'll be showing off Ultimate Combat in the PaizoCon banquet, so we wanted to mention it by name in the banquet announcement; and two, we're about to launch the playtest.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
two, we're about to launch the playtest.

This. This is Vic Wertz. He comes around, makes an innocent-looking post in response to some technical question, and he drops the bomb. Well played Vic, well played.


About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month? Gah! I need more info. :( I am extremely excited about everything in this book and can't wait till its release.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Hey there folks,

Just a couple of notes. I think when you get a chance to take a look at the three alternate classes, you will understand why they landed in this category instead of getting their own slot as a base class. They are very similar to the class that they are built off of, but different enough that they need a full write-up. You will see very soon.

That said, even we are unsure about the gunslinger. It could easily bump over to be its own base class. That is what the playtest is for to be honest.

Soon now...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ice Titan wrote:
Are they fighting yetis?

Yup!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?

As in way sooner than those.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Wow, that was fast.


Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Awesome I can definitely live with that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thank you!! You guys at Paizo rock!


Wow. Despite my previous couple of doom & gloom posts in this thread, that announcement is a pleasantly nice surprise.
Looking forward to this.

Dark Archive

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Oh, you guys are the bestest!


can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?

Lantern Lodge

Paizo Staffmembers...

If I didn't have a wife, I'd ask you to marry me.

In fact, let me ask my wife how she feels about polygamy.

Lol. Just kidding.

....

No really, I love you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yay! Downloaded the playtest. I think my

Spoiler:
Kingmaker game needs to experience a gunslinger in the River Kingdoms. The PCs are on a little side quest to Artume, and a showdown with Bransen Waike. Maybe Sir Waike has a "hired gun" (pun intended) by his side.
That would sure catch my PCs unawares. :) And then I could post the results.

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm

Silver Crusade

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

+1


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

No...

They're getting a big spotlight because there's a long tradition of samurais and ninjas and gunslingers being beloved characters in movies, novels, comics, and the like. That's not something you can say about the majority of the various archetypes we've created.

I defy any gamer to watch "Seven Samurai" or "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly," for example, and not get inspired to make a character who does some of the awesome things that Toshiro Mifune or Clint Eastwood do in those movies.

I hope we'll get to see a real Swashbuckler alternate class soon, then. I think I am not the only fan of the three musketeers. :)

That being said, my big hope for the book ( beyond it's already awesome sounding content ) is that the martial arts archetypes for the Monk give us the option of a.) losing the "Lawful" alignment requirement and b.) allowing replacements of the supernatural Monk stuff with more Wuxia style alternatives. There are lots of depictions of martial artists who were neither monks nor lawful, so that is something I've been missing something fierce in Pathfinder so far.

I don't mind the class still being called a monk, but more variety in the depiction of possible martial artists, in origins and powers, would be appreciated by me.

Oh, and great cover! Will the artwork be featured on the blog soon? :)


Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P


This sounds far too much like Book of Ten Swords for my comfort...


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ChuckSC6568 wrote:
This sounds far too much like Book of Ten Swords for my comfort...

If you mean the D&D book Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords with that, I think you can relax, as that book is probably the one sourcebook least favored by the authors of the Pathfinder RPG.


Gun-fu. :(

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:


I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Heh, I'm wondering the same. Considering that cover art shows yetis and Valeros, the poor unnamed Samurai might be closer to trading blows with Graithzog Ebonrunes than he thinks...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Steelfiredragon wrote:
can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?

Nope. It's still being designed/developed. For now, we're focusing mostly on the ninja, the samurai, and the gunslinger as far as public feedback and all that.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Mikaze wrote:

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Heh... probably.

My theory of giants: They work best when they're giant versions of other humanoids or cultures or groups. Which is why the stone giant, for so long, didn't feel like it fit in with the other giants. Making them into "Giant Easter Island head dudes" really helped to fit them in.

My other takes:

Hill Giant = Giant Hillbilly
Fire Giant = Giant Dwarf
Frost Giant = Giant Viking
Cloud Giant = Giant Greek
Storm Giant = Giant Roman
Marsh Giant = Giant Innsmouth Folk
Taiga Giant = Giant Inuit/Native American
Wood Giant = Giant Elf
Rune Giant = Giant Samurai

Paizo Employee Creative Director

yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Having spent a little more time reviewing the classes playtest info, I've concluded the following:

I don't like them. At all.

Gunslinger - I'll admit that this one reflexively goes to my "no f-ing way" bin. There's no way this class becomes a viable option without undermining/changing the tone of the setting. We're not talking about an early firearms specialist here, we're talking about a Western gunslinger. If I was playing Pathfinder: Tales of the Old West, I'd be all over this. For my beloved fantasy rpg setting - no thanks.

Mechanically, I like it. But not for Pathfinder and not for Golarion. (And if Greenwood's web fiction portrayal of firearms in Golarion is a theme that's going to continue, furuter Golarion products are going to RAPIDLY lose their appeal...)

As for the ninja and samurai, the more I read them, the more convinced I am that they should have been archetypes.

The ninja seems to lean heavily towards the "like a rogue, but better. Because they're NINJA!". Also, the bombs should be equipment, not a class ability. I'm guessing that if treated as such, you're stepping on the ninja's shtick, but making them a class ability makes little sense to me.

Samurai - I'm not seeing anything that warrants a class vs. a cavalier or fighter archetype.

While I've loved 95% of the Pathfinder RPG & Golarion goodness that's come out of Paizo over the years, based on this playtest info, Ultimate Combat is dropping from "must have" to "wait and see".


I really like the grit mechanic of the Gunslinger (the name for the mechanic is a little meh, though). I think it's a very strong mechanic because players are rewarded for taking chances and doing dynamic things.
Gunslinger looks very interesting and it definitely looks unique enough to be a base class.

I like the Ninja also. Rogues don't appeal to me very much, but the Ninja is something I would definitely play. It's just has much more flare than a Rogue - regardless of power levels. My current Pathfinder group is doing the Smuggler's Shiv adventure path and none of the five members chose a Rogue. Having a Rogue's utility would be pretty helpful, I think. It certainly adds a lot of cool stuff, but it ultimately still feels like an extension of the Rogue class. I think it should be an alternate class as the way it's written. I do not think it deserves being a base class as it currently stands.

The Samurai isn't up my alley, personally. I'd imagine it would appeal to the people who would like Cavalier. I don't see enough here in this class to justify it being anything more than a Cavalier archetype. I don't think it should be an alternate class or a base class.

Looking forward to the Magus feats coming out as I'm currently playing one. I'm pretty confident I'll see the +Arcane Pool point feat and/or +Magus Arcana feat after seeing the Gunslinger feat in this preview.

I've seen a few very vocal critics in this thread. I don't get it though. I happen to really enjoy the Magus class and I like the Gunslinger and Ninja as well. I think these three are more interesting than many of the core classes or APG classes.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.

If you're doing a geisha archetype/alternate class, bard feels like a shoe-in for the base class, right?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.

Cool I look forward to seeing this in the World Guide to Tian Xia then.

"Lisa Rocks"


"and wizard archetypes like the gunmage"

Well looks like I can throw my Gunmage out the window now...though mine is probably unbalanced.


James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?


Finally..I can be a cowboy!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
EdwardXVI wrote:
Finally..I can be a cowboy!

A cowboy with a 15th century front loading one-shot gun, though.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!


James Jacobs wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:
can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?
Nope. It's still being designed/developed. For now, we're focusing mostly on the ninja, the samurai, and the gunslinger as far as public feedback and all that.

well the name itself caught my eye....

guess I'll be waiting


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, since James chose to ignore my post, this means we probably will still not see non-lawful Monk archetypes? :(


James Jacobs wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!

Ah, I thought Minkai was a different continent than Tian-Xia.


Until this book I was excited to purchase all the hardcover rules books Pathfinder had to offer.

The fact that Ninja, Samurai, and (yuck) Gunslinger are introduced in this book make it a non-purchase for me. The fact you put these classes into a book that I would have otherwise purchased makes me ill.

What is next "Space Jockey"? I know... Jedi. Use the force feat Luke.

Perhaps I am being old-fashioned but I consider a "Base Class" should be able to fit in 99% of all settings. These three classes are so exotic that you will NEVER see all three allowed in someone's campaign.

I can just see it now.. Indiana Jones Gunslinger goes up to the Samurai.. Bang.. Dead.. Laugh.

Ninja and Samurai I can see being in an Asian flavored setting book, but to put them as base classes is pushing way too hard. You are giving players the argument "Why can't I play a Samurai.. ITS A BASE CLASS!" and I have to tell them.. "Because this is a fantasy game you idiot not SHOGUN!"

Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

I know that I am not alone in my feelings and I suggest you reconsider these classes for this book.. Perhaps it is too late for that to happen.

I guess you rolled a one.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

magnuskn wrote:

I hope we'll get to see a real Swashbuckler alternate class soon, then. I think I am not the only fan of the three musketeers. :)

That being said, my big hope for the book ( beyond it's already awesome sounding content ) is that the martial arts archetypes for the Monk give us the option of a.) losing the "Lawful" alignment requirement and b.) allowing replacements of the supernatural Monk stuff with more Wuxia style alternatives. There are lots of depictions of martial artists who were neither monks nor lawful, so that is something I've been missing something fierce in Pathfinder so far.

I don't mind the class still being called a monk, but more variety in the depiction of possible martial artists, in origins and powers, would be appreciated by me.

Oh, and great cover! Will the artwork be featured on the blog soon? :)

I didn't MEAN to ignore your question...

I hope to see a real swashbuckler something soon as well. That type of character is one of my favorites to play, and I've been trying to use my influence to get something akin to it into a hardcover for a while now. HOPEFULLY we'll see something cool in Ultimate Combat...

As for monks... we'll see, but the thing is that monks having a "lawful" requirement to their alignment is a pretty hard-coded element/feature of the class. That's unlikely to change. Adding some more Wuxia type stuff is more likely than that, though. And there'll certainly be a lot of martial arts options for ALL classes... not just for monks. That could be ONE way to get into a non-lawful martial artist, after all.

The artwork itself won't be featured on the blog, since it's already out. I don't really like using blog space to show off "old news."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!
Ah, I thought Minkai was a different continent than Tian-Xia.

Just as Japan is a part of Asia, Minkai is a part of Tian-Xia.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Master Manipulator wrote:
Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

Actually... the rulebooks are the BEST place to put experimental concepts in the game. While Golarion uses content from the rulebooks... it doesn't use ALL of the content. And as we continue to put rulebooks out, the incidences of things showing up in them that aren't necessarilly going to be a big part (or even a part at all) of Golarion will increase.

That said, if folks DO like things like, say, the gunslinger, the rules DO work with Golarion.

But the rulebooks are used for far more game worlds than just Golarion, and the more they support ALL possible play styles, the stronger they''ll be overall. That's the theory, at least.

If they just supported Golarion and that's it, then the rulebooks wouldn't be presented as world neutral books.

Dark Archive

Master Manipulator wrote:

Until this book I was excited to purchase all the hardcover rules books Pathfinder had to offer.

The fact that Ninja, Samurai, and (yuck) Gunslinger are introduced in this book make it a non-purchase for me. The fact you put these classes into a book that I would have otherwise purchased makes me ill.

What is next "Space Jockey"? I know... Jedi. Use the force feat Luke.

Perhaps I am being old-fashioned but I consider a "Base Class" should be able to fit in 99% of all settings. These three classes are so exotic that you will NEVER see all three allowed in someone's campaign.

I can just see it now.. Indiana Jones Gunslinger goes up to the Samurai.. Bang.. Dead.. Laugh.

Ninja and Samurai I can see being in an Asian flavored setting book, but to put them as base classes is pushing way too hard. You are giving players the argument "Why can't I play a Samurai.. ITS A BASE CLASS!" and I have to tell them.. "Because this is a fantasy game you idiot not SHOGUN!"

Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

I know that I am not alone in my feelings and I suggest you reconsider these classes for this book.. Perhaps it is too late for that to happen.

I guess you rolled a one.

To be fair the classes will be what 5% of the book if that? Likely a lot less. i wouldn't discount the whole book on that. Hell if a RPG ever come out that I love more than 80% of the book I will likely die of a bliss attack.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

Dark Archive

Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.
And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.

My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

That's more true than you think, to be honest.

Another way to put it: Alternate classes are ones we want to particularly shine a spotlight on, either because we think that they're neat or because we think that there's fan demand for them. And by taking the time to present full level progression tables and illustrate them, we do just that.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Master Manipulator wrote:
What is next "Space Jockey"?

We honestly don't have a lot of things after these three classes that we feel need to be treated as full classes (at least, not without being hooked up to significantly new mechanical concepts such as psionics). I'm not promising we won't *ever* do more classes after this—we certainly reserve that right—but we don't currently have concrete plans for *any* new classes after Ultimate Combat.

Dark Archive

Generic Villain wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.
And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.
My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek ;)

Oh I know but it is still pretty true. :) As James points out as well.

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