I didn't MEAN to ignore your question...I hope to see a real swashbuckler something soon as well. That type of character is one of my favorites to play, and I've been trying to use my influence to get something akin to it into a hardcover for a while now. HOPEFULLY we'll see something cool in Ultimate Combat...
As for monks... we'll see, but the thing is that monks having a "lawful" requirement to their alignment is a pretty hard-coded element/feature of the class. That's unlikely to change. Adding some more Wuxia type stuff is more likely than that, though. And there'll certainly be a lot of martial arts options for ALL classes... not just for monks. That could be ONE way to get into a non-lawful martial artist, after all.
The artwork itself won't be featured on the blog, since it's already out. I don't really like using blog space to show off "old news."
Thanks for the answer. :)
A Swashbuckler archetype would be very nice, the question is for which class and how. Well, I think you guys can come up with a good idea.
In regards to the Monk question, this is why I had hoped and pleaded for a generic Martial Artist base class ( or in this case, alternate class ) back during the original playtest of the Core Rule Book. Maybe for the Tian Xia book? A martial artist not bound to the monastery lifestyle, the lawful outlook and the supernatural stuff of the Monk class would be something excellent.
Of course you could be given us this or something similar with the martial arts feats in Ultimate Combat, so we'll see. But maybe you guys could take a generic martial artist class into consideration for the new campaign book? They would be much more common there than over in Avistan and Garund, IMO.
As for the artwork, could it be featured anywhere else? It's always great to save such great images for wallpapers and the like, so it'd be nice to see this one put up in good resolution and without the letters on the website somewhere. :)
Creative Director
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We'll see about getting a wallpaper of the cover... but honestly, that's something that's more likely to happen as we near the book's release in half a year or so. We have to manage the anticipation buildup for it, after all!
As for martial arts... again, wait for Ultimate Combat. Our solution for martial arts includes monks, but it also goes quite beyond monks as well. Fighters, in particular, are going to make great martial artists. Ninjas and rogues too!
We'll see about getting a wallpaper of the cover... but honestly, that's something that's more likely to happen as we near the book's release in half a year or so. We have to manage the anticipation buildup for it, after all!
As for martial arts... again, wait for Ultimate Combat. Our solution for martial arts includes monks, but it also goes quite beyond monks as well. Fighters, in particular, are going to make great martial artists. Ninjas and rogues too!
Sounds great! Thank you for the second response. :)
Can we get to August faster? ;)
... We have to manage the anticipation buildup for it, after all!
I think it works quite well.
"Anticipation buildup" - I think you've managed to unsettle the chicken coop quite a bit with the playtest. But it's probably best this way. Break the shock a bit for people. ;)
C'mon monk love...
Monk has always been my favorite class ever since I first put my hands on my first Pathfinder book, so I'm really excited to see what gets done with them. I do wish that they were getting more than just Archetypes, though. Archetypes just feel, flimsy and light, so I was really hoping for an Alt Class for Monks since they get SO much hatred everywhere else. I mean, something that makes a hater go "Did the Monk really do that?" which is why I'm so ramped up for the Martial Arts Archetypes. In particular, I really want to see if you can do what 3.5 never seemed to do, help a Martial Character stand toe to toe with a full out caster.
The ninja seems to do a pretty good job at coming close at least, even though I was a little sad it's more Rogue based than Monk, but it really is a mix of the two classes and it should probably be stated as such.
The Gunslinger really feels like it's own class, so introducing it as such wouldn't be nonsensical since the Gunslinger doesn't feel like a fighter like an Anti-Paladin feels like a Paladin.
I'm not sure how I feel about the Samurai yet, but the "Strike True" ability from the Order of the Warrior couldn't be more perfectly worded to make it feel like you can see it actually happen. Who ever wrote/worded that, I want to shake your hand, because I can feel the actions of the ability, and that isn't something that is easily done.
As for the Swashbuckler Archtype, has to be a Bard, hands down, IMHO.
Are there any ideas or concepts for new Combat Maneuvers like Choke, Break Bone (considering your introducing called shots I could see Steven Segal's evil grin looking at some NPC Wrists?), Sever? Or possibly feats that COMBINE Combat Maneuvers into one fluid motion, like a Disarm that turns into a Trip as well or allows damage to be done though Combat Maneuvers, other than grapple?
And lastly, as I always like to say, Thank You Jason, Vic, James and anyone else I missed. I always appreciate how hands on you are with your community since it shows that you ACTUALLY listen to us as you develop a product.
And lastly, as I always like to say, Thank You Jason, Vic, James and anyone else I missed. I always appreciate how hands on you are with your community since it shows that you ACTUALLY listen to us as you develop a product
+1
What I like about the sampling from the playtest is a feature that I feel Paizo does wonderfully with all their classes: adding (optional) abilities that are tied to the lore of classes. Like a witch can make a poisonous apple and cackle. What more could you ask of a witch? The ninja can make clones and scale walls. Just what I thought it needs. It's clear that the designers put a lot of thought into their designs.
Kudos
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I must say that I am really surprised by the level of vehemence against those 3 new classes. I realize that many people were disappointed by class and feat bloat in 3.5, but - common! With 4 new classes the total tally is, what? Something around twenty base classes and perhaps same number of prestige classes? And every one of those classes has been done very carefully.
The only thing I want from Paizo - demand in fact - is that new content be supported. I want a Man from Alkenstar module featuring gunslingers. I want maguses as enemies or NPCs in APS.
Vic, James, everybody - please don't be disappointed in initial reactions to your new classes. I am sure that for every person that does not like them, there are five who do. For myself, I have already stated that magus and gunslinger are more than perfect for my home brew. In fact, in my campaign black powder is even slightly more expensive - one charge is 11 gp.
Keep up with the good work, guys.
So I'm watching this thread closely. I currently play 4th Ed. (and to be fair I do really enjoy it) but I really interested in getting few more layers (of complexity and choice) in the game.
I played 3.x and, while I liked it, it did fall apart for me after a while. The more I read on the changes for PF the more I like it (no I still haven't played a game yet) but seeing this book has basically pushed me over the top.
Also, it seems that playtesting is take a little further here as well. THis is a plus on the Pathfinder side too...
When I first read the product description for Ultimate Combat, it was a mixed bag for me. I wasn't really sure about the 3 new alternate classes as I couldn't see much use for them in my game. Still, the majority of the book sounded interesting.
Then came the playtest document and I was sold. Reading through the gunslinger and ninja alternate classes (haven't read the samurai class yet), I felt that they would both be tremendous fun to play. Can they be improved upon or even changed to archetypes or something else? Sure, and that's what the playtest is for!
Now, I'm not just going to blindly throw the mechanics into my games. Including a gunslinger still has to make sense in the context of the campaign world, for instance (such as Alkenstar). No question about it. But Paizo have, in my mind, created at least 2 fun classes.
People are entitled to their own opinion about the products Paizo publish and how Paizo handles the game, negative and positive. But for my money, it seems like Paizo is working on another hit product.
August can't come fast enough.
so... when can we have a colour pic of the gunslinger :P
I bet she hates squirrels
I like the idea of the gunslinger, but the execution is poor in my opinion. The grit pool won't go over well with my group. Extra bookkeeping is a big no-go as far as we're concerned. It's more than just an inconvenience; it slows down play.
The other two classes are as good as I expected them to be. I really like the idea of making alternate classes instead of massive reconstruction to arrive at, well, the same conclusion.
I'm sure guns are in there somewhere.
Maybe your thinking of FF7? Two characters used gun-blades and one used a shotgun.
I'm sure guns are in there somewhere.Maybe your thinking of FF7? Two characters used gun-blades and one used a shotgun.
That was FF8.
so... when can we have a colour pic of the gunslinger :P
But does she follow Oriza?
No, wait, she'd have to fight with plates for that.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I have a few issues with the ninja's balance.
Please do not post playtest feedback in this thread—it belongs in the playtest forums, where it is more likely to bee seen by the appropriate people.
I'd like a color pic of the kunoichi.
(female ninja to those who don't know)
I thought a female ninja was called a "niña." ;)
I thought a female ninja was called a "niña." ;)I'd like a color pic of the kunoichi.
(female ninja to those who don't know)
I thought it was called Lilith ;)
That's a gninja. ;)
>.>
<.<
>.>
<.<
* tries to backstab the ninja *
* fails ** dies by ninja's sword anime-style, spreading blood all over the place*
I hope this book finally brings the possibility to play a character well-versed in unarmed combat that can do more than 1d3 damage, but without alignment restrictions, without any esoteric supernatural mumbo-jumbo, and without an inherent cultural imprint.
I just wanted to say I finally got to look at the playtest last night..wow. The gunslinger captures all the little "not quite reality" tricks from the movies. I like the feel of the ninja. I was a bit taken aback by the Samurai. The 1st I ever recall seeing not based on a fighter, and being any alignment, instead of any lawful..but it works better than any version of this class I have even read before. Congrats and kudos to the writers
I was a bit taken aback by the Samurai. The 1st I ever recall seeing not based on a fighter
Well, the 3e OA/Rokugan samurai was its own class. Might have had a connection to the fighter because it got bonus feats, but I'm not sure that's enough to call it based on the fighter...
and being any alignment, instead of any lawful..
In Rokugan d20 at least, they were free to choose any alignment/honour if I recall correctly. Rokugani Samurai run the gamut from good to evil, lawful to chaotic, honourable to dishonourable. Some are ronin and the scum of the earth, some have fallen from grace, and some sacrifice their honour for the good of the Empire.
but it works better than any version of this class I have even read before. Congrats and kudos to the writers
It does look quite nice and fitting to the general image the word samurai conjures. The OA/Rokugan version was decent, too.
Of course, the Complete Warrior version was nothing short of a crime.
I was a bit taken aback by the Samurai. The 1st I ever recall seeing not based on a fighterWell, the 3e OA/Rokugan samurai was its own class. Might have had a connection to the fighter because it got bonus feats, but I'm not sure that's enough to call it based on the fighter...
and being any alignment, instead of any lawful..
In Rokugan d20 at least, they were free to choose any alignment/honour if I recall correctly. Rokugani Samurai run the gamut from good to evil, lawful to chaotic, honourable to dishonourable. Some are ronin and the scum of the earth, some have fallen from grace, and some sacrifice their honour for the good of the Empire.
but it works better than any version of this class I have even read before. Congrats and kudos to the writersIt does look quite nice and fitting to the general image the word samurai conjures. The OA/Rokugan version was decent, too.
Of course, the Complete Warrior version was nothing short of a crime.
I had never gotten more than a passing glance at the Rokugan setting, so I am not familiar with it at all. I may have to hunt it down now..
Rokugan was a world with a reif stay in WOTC's 3.0 line of the d20 dnd ruleset.
What do you mean, was? Legend of the Five Rings (the game Rokugan is the setting for) only had a relatively short d20 period (during which the L5R RPG stuff came with both d20 rules and L5R 2e rules), but since then, they had two new editions of their rules (they're in L5R 4e now) and the Trading Card Game (which was there first) is still there.
Rokugan, is a living setting, but not quite like things were done with, say, Forgotten Realms. Instead, the big TDG tournaments decide what happens in the canon storyline. So if the the winner of the next tournament entered as Crane, for example, the Crane clan gains prestige and influence within the empire.
Rokugan (The Emerald Empire), the setting L5R is centred on, is a fantasy world with heavy influence of Japanese lore, with other East Asian cultures thrown into the mix here and there. It's all about honour and glory, the Emperor is, for all intents and purposes, the ruler of both Earth and the Celestial Heavens (his decrees can turn mortals into gods!), and the ranks of heroes have more Samurai than you can shake a bo at.
The game is an interesting mix of Class/Level based and free-form, and the dice mechanic is also somewhere between bonus-based and pool-based.
it appeared during this time within the Oriental Adventures spalt book alongside:
The Wu-jen
that divine baseclass that I never can remember or spell when I do remember it
Oriental Adventures used L5R as the implied setting. There was some setting info, but it was not a full-blown campaign setting, and there was stuff in there that didn't belong into Rokugan (the material that was appropriate for Rokugan was always marked as such). For example, most of the races OA had were never present in Rokugan.
In addition, Alderac (a.k.a. AEG - Alderac Entertainment Group), released a Rokugan d20 Campaign setting which was all d20. Beyond that, they did quite a few books during the d20 period, and, as I said, they contained both d20 rules and rules for their own game system, which was in 2nd edition at the time. Later, they stopped the d20 stuff and released 3rd edition (and, some time ago, 4th).
The Rokugan stuff is usually quite full of fluff with not that much in the way of rules stuff - kinda like Pathfinder Campaign Setting books.
Anyway, OA had a number of classes:
Samurai (A noble warrior - noble meaning of high birth, though they have to be honourable)
Sohei (Warrior-Monk)
Wu Jen (Chinese-Style wizard with an elemental theme, the elements being the classic Chinese ones)
Shugenja (An animist priest with an elemental focus, though these elements were less "earth = acid, air = lightning" and more "water means purity and healing, fire is destruction but also creativity")
Rokugan d20 also introduced more classes
Inkyu (Enlightened monk. Not as warlike as the standard monk, but more mystical powers tied to Void, the fifth element)
Ninja (As a base class rather than the PrC from OA)
Courtier (A class that is basically useless in a regular fight, but is all the more deadly for its connexions in the Imperial Court)
but the CW Samurai was a joke, and if the 3.0 OA version had the same issues, then it was a joke too.
If I showed you the two classes and hid the names, you wouldn't suspect they were supposed to embody the same concept.
The CW samurai wouldn't even have a place in Rokugan, since the Niten style (fighting with katana and wakizashi at the same time) was only used by the Dragon clan (which was famous for it). Basically everyone else used the more classical style where you wield the katana two-handed. The wakizashi is only there to denote your status as a Samurai (the social caste, not the class - not every Samurai had to be a bushi ("warrior"), but every noble-born was allowed to wear a wakizashi. And everyone who wore one without being of the right caste broke the law and was usually executed for it.) and represent the soul of the warrior. It's also used to commit ritual suicide (seppuku).
The class had parallels to fighters in that it received bonus feats (not as many as the fighter, though, and the list was different). Samurai also got more class skills and skill points, and had a class feature called ancestral daisho. The daisho is the traditional pair of swords (katana and wakizashi) that is the right of every samurai.
This ability allowed the samurai to enhance these weapons by himself. All he needed was a day in prayer and offerings of sufficient value - basically the same price you need to pay for creating the magic weapon in the normal manner, though this method was faster, and you could sacrifice other magic items for full price instead of selling it for half price and using the gold to enhance your ancestral daisho. There was no XP cost involved (this was 3e, where magic items had an XP cost in addition to GP)
Rokugan d20 changed this to an XP cost (and no GP cost), since money is immaterial in Rokugan, especially for high-born samurai (and the game assumed that all heroes were samurai - again, the caste, not the class - or at least part of a monk order).
The bonus feats were drawn from an individualised list based on what clan you followed. Rokugan added Technique feats which further individualised the clans' fighting styles.
Examples: Dragon clan is all about Niten (using the katana in one hand and the wakizashi in the other), the Crane are master duelists (iaijutsu style, where you draw your sword and strike in one motion), Scorpions are, as the Emperor's Underhand, the backstabbers and sneak fighters (just don't call them ninja to their face, that will get you killed and might spark a war) and so on.
Reading the PDF, well, its a neat idea, but I don't see how a rifle using Gunslinger can possibly keep up damage wise. Technically speaking, they can't use vital strike, and they can't use iterative attacks. Like crossbows, many of the ranged feats don't apply. Oh, and 10 gp a shot? Ouch. That especially hurts for the pistol packer, who are otherwise better off, but still can't use some of the best ranged feats. The actually having iteritives helps, especially with them being ranged touch attacks. But your going to be going through mounds of gold if you are going to be shooting off like an archer.
I like the grit mechanic, mostly, though the cauterizing barrel trick seemed awful silly to me.
Also, skill points. A few more would help.
If I seem all down, it is because I WANT to like this, I WANT guns in my fantasy.
Secret Stash Deed Grit feat helps. at 11th level signature deed combined with this offers unlimited ammo.
My wishes maybe have become true? A Pathfinder Supplement Book that updates my 3.5 Tome of Battle? YEAH gogogo! Just need money to buy Ultimate Magic first :P, and oh my...soon is august...happy like a small
child :D.
Good Work Paizo!
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:pr0ud oWn3r 0F:
^*#;.PATHFINDER ROLE PLAYING GAME.;#*^
gr33tz
ultimate_illusionist
I bet she hates squirrelsso... when can we have a colour pic of the gunslinger :P
+1 for the Black Adder reference :]
My wishes maybe have become true? A Pathfinder Supplement Book that updates my 3.5 Tome of Battle? YEAH gogogo! Just need money to buy Ultimate Magic first :P, and oh my...soon is august...happy like a small
child :D.Good Work Paizo!
I wouldn't bet on it. As far as I know, the Tome of Battle is probably the least popular 3.5 book with the Paizo staff, and I can't really see them "adapting" it for Pathfinder (as far as that would even be possible, considering the fact that nothing in Tome of Battle is Open Gaming Content).
I wouldn't bet on it. As far as I know, the Tome of Battle is probably the least popular 3.5 book with the Paizo staff, and I can't really see them "adapting" it for Pathfinder (as far as that would even be possible, considering the fact that nothing in Tome of Battle is Open Gaming Content).
And for many of us, we breathe a collective sigh of relief that this is true.
My wishes maybe have become true? A Pathfinder Supplement Book that updates my 3.5 Tome of Battle?
Nope, just a book about battle. With battle-oriented material. This will definitely not update sword-sages and their like.
As someone else already said, the Book of Nine Swords is not open content, so they can't just take stuff out of there the way they can do with the Core Rulebooks and stuff like the Tome of Horrors or Epic Level Handbook (which was mostly open). There might be a way to do this without being targeted by wizards' attack dog lawyers of doom, but Paizo won't do anything like this out of principle.
Maybe some other publisher wants to do something like that, though.
I wouldn't bet on it. As far as I know, the Tome of Battle is probably the least popular 3.5 book with the Paizo staff, and I can't really see them "adapting" it for Pathfinder (as far as that would even be possible, considering the fact that nothing in Tome of Battle is Open Gaming Content).And for many of us, we breathe a collective sigh of relief that this is true.
I held that book with such scorn for the longest time, but I've begun to see it in a different light when I actually played a class out of it beginning last October. If in the right hands and revamped differently for say ... an Asian or India style setting ... it could be rehabilitated.
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Will there be an inclusion of more types of rifles/pistols/scatterguns that reflect the addition of the Gunslinger? I would be very upset if all I had to choose from are single shot pistols and a musket.
I would like to see at least a few more basic types like for instance the inclusion of the firearms chart on the Campaign Setting book on pg 212. However that one has no conversion for smaller characters.
Please let me know that you are including this into Ultimate Combat so that players who choose gunslinger are not so limited in what they want to use as a weapon.
Side note:
I did notice, that in the Campaign Settings book, Gunslinger was in there as a sort of mini-prestige class. Was that your original idea for it Or were you unsatisfied with what was coming out of that and decided to turn it into its own class?