Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL)
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Seize the initiative and chop your foes to pieces with this exhaustive guide to the art of martial combat in this exciting new rulebook for the smash-hit Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, suitable for players and Game Masters alike!

This comprehensive 256-page hardcover reference reveals the martial secrets of the Pathfinder RPG rules like never before! Tons of new tricks and techniques for combat-oriented character classes put a sharp edge on your weapons and a sure step in your tactics, ranging from new barbarian rage powers, new cavalier orders, tons of new rogue talents, and more than 60 new archetypes for nearly every Pathfinder RPG character class, including spellcasters like wizards and clerics.

Ultimate Combat also introduces three new Pathfinder RPG classes: the ninja, samurai, and gunslinger! The ninja blends the subterfuge of the rogue with high-flying martial arts and assassination techniques. The samurai is an unstoppable armored warrior who lives by a strong code of honor—with or without a master. The gunslinger combines the fighter's martial prowess with a new grit mechanic that allows her to pull off fantastic acts with a pistol or rifle. All this plus tons of new armor and weapons, a complete treatment of firearms in the Pathfinder RPG, a vast array of martial arts, finishing moves, vehicle combat, duels, and new combat-oriented spells for every spellcasting class in the game!

Ultimate Combat includes:

  • New player character options for 14 Pathfinder RPG base classes, including alchemist discoveries, barbarian rage powers, cavalier orders, combat-cleric archetypes, animal shaman druids, new fighter archetypes like gladiator and armor master, inquisitor archetypes like witch-hunter or spellbreaker, combat-themed magus arcana, monk archetypes based on mastery of martial arts, new paladin archetypes like angelic warrior, ranger archetypes like big game hunter and trapper, new rogue tricks, and wizard archetypes like the gunmage
  • The ninja, samurai, and gunslinger, brand-new 20-level alternate classes specially designed to get the most out of combat
  • Hundreds of new combat-oriented feats including martial arts feat trees, finishing moves, and combination feats
  • In-depth overviews on a variety of combat-related topics, such as armor, Asian weapons, duels, fighting schools, guns, siege weapons, and more
  • A complete system covering vehicle combat, including wagons, boats, airships, and more
  • Tons of optional combat rules like called shots, armor as damage reduction, and new ways to track character health
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-359-0

Errata
Last Updated - 8/20/2015

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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Useful thing with some problems

4/5

There may be an unballanced thing or two along the way, but hey, I think I can live with that.

There is a new class - the gunslinger, which half of my group hated on sight and another half wwanted to play immediately, so I don't doubt that I'll see one in action pretty soon. It will probably see some use in skull and shackles as well IMO.

Two class variants that bring some asian flavour for current AP and as extensive archetypes ammend some things with their core counter parts. Samurai focuses the cavalier even more to combat and the Ninja brings a bit more mystic power to the rogue and also tries to add some combat value to that class, which was long asked for around the boards.

There's a ton of feats, a lot of them focused on unarmed combat give the monk some much needed love and there are archetypes that cover some previously vacant niches, like antipaladin turning undead (sort of), rather lovely, and some weird, like the siege mage. It may be weak, but I'm considering to have a canon instead of a familiar now.

Other sections include expanded asian weapon and armour rack that are rather fine. It could have been handled a bit different, but it isn't bad either. Siege weapons and vehicles are back, as are the guns. Just remember the obsession with realism while reading the firearms section, they are rather inferior to bows on later lvels on sheer DPR, but that's where guns normally belong IMO before the industrial age made them repeating (advanced firearms are included as well).

I haven't seen armour as DR and piecemeal armours in action yet, so I'll have to wait to comment them further.

As far as new spells go, there are tings to play with the new mechanics from the book and there are spells for more combat-minded casters, like rangers, paladins and so on. I don't see any problem with including these in a combat book.


Circular bin this rubbish

1/5

So, let's see what we have here: Gunslinger, Ninja, and Samurai. Wow, what an awesome collection of core classes that just can be dropped right into a campaign. It is the kind of decision that frankly one face palm is just not enough.

Pathfinder also continues its drive to employ the worst editors in the game industry.

Remember boys and girls = Ultimate Combat means even more spells. Lots of new spells because we could just not fit them all into Ultimate Magic. You know the book that should have spells, unlike say Combat which should at least give the weapon types a bit of love - especially at the higher end of the level chart where damage blasters rule the roost.

It is like someone had a bet to produce a book more worthless than Ultimate Magic. Something with minimal play balance and usage. Splat book junk now is a larger and more expensive format - hey what's not to love.


Excellent Options and Flavor

5/5

This book is worth it for at least helping wrap up the possibilities for a oriental game.

With a fair amount of options, giving some lovin' to the combat classes UM left out. I love it for the guns information, the airships and all new rogue archetypes. A MUST for any table looking for supplements.


Iffy at best

2/5

I am glad I got this on PDF and not DTF... the money difference is what saved it.

Classes: Left so much to hope for.
Gunslinger - Less than inspiring but a nice ranged option to supplement casters and archers when done right.

Ninja - *sigh* Rogue. So badly done. I have seen 13 year olds write better tripe for their characters.

Samurai - A complete joke and waste of paper. With so many sources to draw upon for inspiration for samurai, this load of FECES is what counts as a samurai? A low quality cavalier wannabe? Makes me glad I kept my old AEG/L5R inspired 3.0 books. A little elbow grease might be able to bring those old hackneyed classes up to snuff with the power creep in today's game.

Archetypes - Good but lacking.

If you enjoyed the advanced players or the magic manual, you will enjoy this. Funny how the gunslinger got archetypes (albeit only 4) but ninja and samurai got left out. Oh, I guess since they were just half backed rogues and cavaliers, they didn't need anything. Except for this failure, this section almost made the book.

Feats
It's feats. Yay. What do you expect? They make fighting interesting but nothing says 'TAKE ME!!!' all over it. Still, adding spice to boiled beef.

Mastering Combat
If you actually open to this section, you are either looking for new gear or you missed the feat section. Try flipping a few pages. Oh, the dueling is fun... too bad I know they won't add the melee parrying rules into the main combat rules. Beyond that, you are not missing anything.

Vehicles
Same rehashed 3ed ships and vehicles that we have had since the Arms and Equipment guide. Wake me up when something actually interesting arrives... like a galleon or a true man of war. The vehicle rules are not much changed either from those days. Almost not worth including.

Variant Rules
Do not open this section.

Armor as DR is terrible... especially if it makes EVERYONE and their dog hit and provides NO BLOODY ACTIVE DEFENSE! Just turns the game even MORE into stand there and be hit like a retard.

Called shots - *bored* wheeeeee...

Piecemeal Armor - Now I can look like a hobo or min max my armor! Thanks Billy Mays!

Wound Pts and Vigor - Great. Lets not address the insane damages and autohits and make things die EVEN faster. Hells.

Spells - WHY!
This is the COMBAT book... I don't need 50 pages of new spells... especially on the heels of a CASTER book a few months back that next to ignored melee in it.

In summery - If you need a splat book to flavor a bland character, can't go wrong here. Does it have problems? Oh by the gods yes it does. Do the writers and producers need to be dragged out behind a building and flogged? No. But a sound smacking around is deserved for this book.


Not Ultimate but still good

4/5

I had some of the same problems with this as I had with ultimate magic, It doesn't have something for every class and some classes(wizard) get more that others(sorcerer). I also would have liked some unarmored options, more feats for unarmed, light, and natural weapons. Things like adding dex intead of strength to light weapon damage, adding wisdom to unarmed strike damage for monks, gaining monk like ac instead of armor prof.,some prestige classes, etc. But with that being said there is a lot of good stuff in this book such as more feats than I have seen in one location, many good archtypes, new weapons, armor , special materials, called shots, duels, seige weapons, and much more. All in all I still like the book but it is hard to compete with the Advanced players guide wich in my opinion is the best player options book I have ever seen. So if you like martial themed characters then this definitly up your ally if you are spellcaster or skill monkey then you might still find some good stuff in here as well.


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Are they fighting yetis?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

KnightErrantJR wrote:
... I have images of parties composed completely of "Ultimate" and "Advanced" archetyped/feated/alternated characters tearing through encounters that would have been a challenge for Core Rulebook characters.

My current campaign consists almost entirely of APG classes... and you know what? We verified that core classes are core for a reason. APG classes are cool, but rogues and clerics sure are useful to have around!

weirmonken wrote:
My only disappointment was that when I saw this I thought we were going to see a whole slew of new product announcements and preorders. Hopefully this is just the first of many...

We'll be announcing the rest of the August products next month. We chose to announce this one early for two reasons: one, we'll be showing off Ultimate Combat in the PaizoCon banquet, so we wanted to mention it by name in the banquet announcement; and two, we're about to launch the playtest.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
two, we're about to launch the playtest.

This. This is Vic Wertz. He comes around, makes an innocent-looking post in response to some technical question, and he drops the bomb. Well played Vic, well played.


About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month? Gah! I need more info. :( I am extremely excited about everything in this book and can't wait till its release.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Hey there folks,

Just a couple of notes. I think when you get a chance to take a look at the three alternate classes, you will understand why they landed in this category instead of getting their own slot as a base class. They are very similar to the class that they are built off of, but different enough that they need a full write-up. You will see very soon.

That said, even we are unsure about the gunslinger. It could easily bump over to be its own base class. That is what the playtest is for to be honest.

Soon now...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ice Titan wrote:
Are they fighting yetis?

Yup!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?

As in way sooner than those.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Wow, that was fast.


Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Awesome I can definitely live with that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thank you!! You guys at Paizo rock!


Wow. Despite my previous couple of doom & gloom posts in this thread, that announcement is a pleasantly nice surprise.
Looking forward to this.

Dark Archive

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
havoc xiii wrote:
About to? As in a week, a couple days, a month?
As in way sooner than those.

Yeah, like right now

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Oh, you guys are the bestest!


can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?

Lantern Lodge

Paizo Staffmembers...

If I didn't have a wife, I'd ask you to marry me.

In fact, let me ask my wife how she feels about polygamy.

Lol. Just kidding.

....

No really, I love you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yay! Downloaded the playtest. I think my

Spoiler:
Kingmaker game needs to experience a gunslinger in the River Kingdoms. The PCs are on a little side quest to Artume, and a showdown with Bransen Waike. Maybe Sir Waike has a "hired gun" (pun intended) by his side.
That would sure catch my PCs unawares. :) And then I could post the results.

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm

Silver Crusade

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

+1


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

No...

They're getting a big spotlight because there's a long tradition of samurais and ninjas and gunslingers being beloved characters in movies, novels, comics, and the like. That's not something you can say about the majority of the various archetypes we've created.

I defy any gamer to watch "Seven Samurai" or "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly," for example, and not get inspired to make a character who does some of the awesome things that Toshiro Mifune or Clint Eastwood do in those movies.

I hope we'll get to see a real Swashbuckler alternate class soon, then. I think I am not the only fan of the three musketeers. :)

That being said, my big hope for the book ( beyond it's already awesome sounding content ) is that the martial arts archetypes for the Monk give us the option of a.) losing the "Lawful" alignment requirement and b.) allowing replacements of the supernatural Monk stuff with more Wuxia style alternatives. There are lots of depictions of martial artists who were neither monks nor lawful, so that is something I've been missing something fierce in Pathfinder so far.

I don't mind the class still being called a monk, but more variety in the depiction of possible martial artists, in origins and powers, would be appreciated by me.

Oh, and great cover! Will the artwork be featured on the blog soon? :)


Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P


This sounds far too much like Book of Ten Swords for my comfort...


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ChuckSC6568 wrote:
This sounds far too much like Book of Ten Swords for my comfort...

If you mean the D&D book Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords with that, I think you can relax, as that book is probably the one sourcebook least favored by the authors of the Pathfinder RPG.


Gun-fu. :(

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:


I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Heh, I'm wondering the same. Considering that cover art shows yetis and Valeros, the poor unnamed Samurai might be closer to trading blows with Graithzog Ebonrunes than he thinks...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Steelfiredragon wrote:
can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?

Nope. It's still being designed/developed. For now, we're focusing mostly on the ninja, the samurai, and the gunslinger as far as public feedback and all that.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Mikaze wrote:

On the new iconics:

Gunslinger is awesome.

I'm so glad the Ninja is a "classic" ninja.

I really do wonder if the Samurai will be doing any double takes when he meets a Rune Giant on nearly the other side of the planet.

Heh... probably.

My theory of giants: They work best when they're giant versions of other humanoids or cultures or groups. Which is why the stone giant, for so long, didn't feel like it fit in with the other giants. Making them into "Giant Easter Island head dudes" really helped to fit them in.

My other takes:

Hill Giant = Giant Hillbilly
Fire Giant = Giant Dwarf
Frost Giant = Giant Viking
Cloud Giant = Giant Greek
Storm Giant = Giant Roman
Marsh Giant = Giant Innsmouth Folk
Taiga Giant = Giant Inuit/Native American
Wood Giant = Giant Elf
Rune Giant = Giant Samurai

Paizo Employee Creative Director

yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Having spent a little more time reviewing the classes playtest info, I've concluded the following:

I don't like them. At all.

Gunslinger - I'll admit that this one reflexively goes to my "no f-ing way" bin. There's no way this class becomes a viable option without undermining/changing the tone of the setting. We're not talking about an early firearms specialist here, we're talking about a Western gunslinger. If I was playing Pathfinder: Tales of the Old West, I'd be all over this. For my beloved fantasy rpg setting - no thanks.

Mechanically, I like it. But not for Pathfinder and not for Golarion. (And if Greenwood's web fiction portrayal of firearms in Golarion is a theme that's going to continue, furuter Golarion products are going to RAPIDLY lose their appeal...)

As for the ninja and samurai, the more I read them, the more convinced I am that they should have been archetypes.

The ninja seems to lean heavily towards the "like a rogue, but better. Because they're NINJA!". Also, the bombs should be equipment, not a class ability. I'm guessing that if treated as such, you're stepping on the ninja's shtick, but making them a class ability makes little sense to me.

Samurai - I'm not seeing anything that warrants a class vs. a cavalier or fighter archetype.

While I've loved 95% of the Pathfinder RPG & Golarion goodness that's come out of Paizo over the years, based on this playtest info, Ultimate Combat is dropping from "must have" to "wait and see".


I really like the grit mechanic of the Gunslinger (the name for the mechanic is a little meh, though). I think it's a very strong mechanic because players are rewarded for taking chances and doing dynamic things.
Gunslinger looks very interesting and it definitely looks unique enough to be a base class.

I like the Ninja also. Rogues don't appeal to me very much, but the Ninja is something I would definitely play. It's just has much more flare than a Rogue - regardless of power levels. My current Pathfinder group is doing the Smuggler's Shiv adventure path and none of the five members chose a Rogue. Having a Rogue's utility would be pretty helpful, I think. It certainly adds a lot of cool stuff, but it ultimately still feels like an extension of the Rogue class. I think it should be an alternate class as the way it's written. I do not think it deserves being a base class as it currently stands.

The Samurai isn't up my alley, personally. I'd imagine it would appeal to the people who would like Cavalier. I don't see enough here in this class to justify it being anything more than a Cavalier archetype. I don't think it should be an alternate class or a base class.

Looking forward to the Magus feats coming out as I'm currently playing one. I'm pretty confident I'll see the +Arcane Pool point feat and/or +Magus Arcana feat after seeing the Gunslinger feat in this preview.

I've seen a few very vocal critics in this thread. I don't get it though. I happen to really enjoy the Magus class and I like the Gunslinger and Ninja as well. I think these three are more interesting than many of the core classes or APG classes.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.

If you're doing a geisha archetype/alternate class, bard feels like a shoe-in for the base class, right?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
yukarjama wrote:
Will there be a geisha archetype in this book? :P

Geishas are more magical than they are combat oriented. So if we were to do a geisha archetype... she'd have a better chance of showing up in a book about magic than she would a book about combat.

And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Just saying.

Cool I look forward to seeing this in the World Guide to Tian Xia then.

"Lisa Rocks"


"and wizard archetypes like the gunmage"

Well looks like I can throw my Gunmage out the window now...though mine is probably unbalanced.


James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?


Finally..I can be a cowboy!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
EdwardXVI wrote:
Finally..I can be a cowboy!

A cowboy with a 15th century front loading one-shot gun, though.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!


James Jacobs wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:
can you tyell me a little on the concept behind the angelic warrior arch type James?
Nope. It's still being designed/developed. For now, we're focusing mostly on the ninja, the samurai, and the gunslinger as far as public feedback and all that.

well the name itself caught my eye....

guess I'll be waiting


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, since James chose to ignore my post, this means we probably will still not see non-lawful Monk archetypes? :(


James Jacobs wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!

Ah, I thought Minkai was a different continent than Tian-Xia.


Until this book I was excited to purchase all the hardcover rules books Pathfinder had to offer.

The fact that Ninja, Samurai, and (yuck) Gunslinger are introduced in this book make it a non-purchase for me. The fact you put these classes into a book that I would have otherwise purchased makes me ill.

What is next "Space Jockey"? I know... Jedi. Use the force feat Luke.

Perhaps I am being old-fashioned but I consider a "Base Class" should be able to fit in 99% of all settings. These three classes are so exotic that you will NEVER see all three allowed in someone's campaign.

I can just see it now.. Indiana Jones Gunslinger goes up to the Samurai.. Bang.. Dead.. Laugh.

Ninja and Samurai I can see being in an Asian flavored setting book, but to put them as base classes is pushing way too hard. You are giving players the argument "Why can't I play a Samurai.. ITS A BASE CLASS!" and I have to tell them.. "Because this is a fantasy game you idiot not SHOGUN!"

Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

I know that I am not alone in my feelings and I suggest you reconsider these classes for this book.. Perhaps it is too late for that to happen.

I guess you rolled a one.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

magnuskn wrote:

I hope we'll get to see a real Swashbuckler alternate class soon, then. I think I am not the only fan of the three musketeers. :)

That being said, my big hope for the book ( beyond it's already awesome sounding content ) is that the martial arts archetypes for the Monk give us the option of a.) losing the "Lawful" alignment requirement and b.) allowing replacements of the supernatural Monk stuff with more Wuxia style alternatives. There are lots of depictions of martial artists who were neither monks nor lawful, so that is something I've been missing something fierce in Pathfinder so far.

I don't mind the class still being called a monk, but more variety in the depiction of possible martial artists, in origins and powers, would be appreciated by me.

Oh, and great cover! Will the artwork be featured on the blog soon? :)

I didn't MEAN to ignore your question...

I hope to see a real swashbuckler something soon as well. That type of character is one of my favorites to play, and I've been trying to use my influence to get something akin to it into a hardcover for a while now. HOPEFULLY we'll see something cool in Ultimate Combat...

As for monks... we'll see, but the thing is that monks having a "lawful" requirement to their alignment is a pretty hard-coded element/feature of the class. That's unlikely to change. Adding some more Wuxia type stuff is more likely than that, though. And there'll certainly be a lot of martial arts options for ALL classes... not just for monks. That could be ONE way to get into a non-lawful martial artist, after all.

The artwork itself won't be featured on the blog, since it's already out. I don't really like using blog space to show off "old news."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And she'd have an even BETTER chance of showing up or having said archetype get expanded if we were to ever do a Pathfinder Chronicles book that discussed world-specific stuff for, say, Tian-Xia or Minkai.

Hmm....

Does this mean that a World Guide to Minkai is on the slate?

Well... doing an AP that takes place half in Tian-Xia (Minkai) would certainly make doing a world guide for that part of the world a logical decision!
Ah, I thought Minkai was a different continent than Tian-Xia.

Just as Japan is a part of Asia, Minkai is a part of Tian-Xia.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Master Manipulator wrote:
Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

Actually... the rulebooks are the BEST place to put experimental concepts in the game. While Golarion uses content from the rulebooks... it doesn't use ALL of the content. And as we continue to put rulebooks out, the incidences of things showing up in them that aren't necessarilly going to be a big part (or even a part at all) of Golarion will increase.

That said, if folks DO like things like, say, the gunslinger, the rules DO work with Golarion.

But the rulebooks are used for far more game worlds than just Golarion, and the more they support ALL possible play styles, the stronger they''ll be overall. That's the theory, at least.

If they just supported Golarion and that's it, then the rulebooks wouldn't be presented as world neutral books.

Dark Archive

Master Manipulator wrote:

Until this book I was excited to purchase all the hardcover rules books Pathfinder had to offer.

The fact that Ninja, Samurai, and (yuck) Gunslinger are introduced in this book make it a non-purchase for me. The fact you put these classes into a book that I would have otherwise purchased makes me ill.

What is next "Space Jockey"? I know... Jedi. Use the force feat Luke.

Perhaps I am being old-fashioned but I consider a "Base Class" should be able to fit in 99% of all settings. These three classes are so exotic that you will NEVER see all three allowed in someone's campaign.

I can just see it now.. Indiana Jones Gunslinger goes up to the Samurai.. Bang.. Dead.. Laugh.

Ninja and Samurai I can see being in an Asian flavored setting book, but to put them as base classes is pushing way too hard. You are giving players the argument "Why can't I play a Samurai.. ITS A BASE CLASS!" and I have to tell them.. "Because this is a fantasy game you idiot not SHOGUN!"

Gunslinger is just spitting in my old-fashioned face. Put this class in the Campaign Book, not as a base class.

I know that I am not alone in my feelings and I suggest you reconsider these classes for this book.. Perhaps it is too late for that to happen.

I guess you rolled a one.

To be fair the classes will be what 5% of the book if that? Likely a lot less. i wouldn't discount the whole book on that. Hell if a RPG ever come out that I love more than 80% of the book I will likely die of a bliss attack.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

Dark Archive

Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.
And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.

My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.

That's more true than you think, to be honest.

Another way to put it: Alternate classes are ones we want to particularly shine a spotlight on, either because we think that they're neat or because we think that there's fan demand for them. And by taking the time to present full level progression tables and illustrate them, we do just that.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Master Manipulator wrote:
What is next "Space Jockey"?

We honestly don't have a lot of things after these three classes that we feel need to be treated as full classes (at least, not without being hooked up to significantly new mechanical concepts such as psionics). I'm not promising we won't *ever* do more classes after this—we certainly reserve that right—but we don't currently have concrete plans for *any* new classes after Ultimate Combat.

Dark Archive

Generic Villain wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Oh oh! I thought of the *real* difference between archeypes and alternate classes: alternate classes get illustrations.
And a chart doing all the conversion work for you, plus likely more fluff for the class.
My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek ;)

Oh I know but it is still pretty true. :) As James points out as well.

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