technarken's page

Well, that's weeks earlier than I expected, and now I have the dubious privilege of paying money for a service I already paid for to provide me a product I didn't order. I get that Paizo can't exactly take a 30k hit in the pocketbook right now, but paying shipping twice is an almost comical level of buffoonery at this point. I suppose they could arrive deliberately misassembled and prepainted in garish colors to top off the farce this whole process has been.

On another note, I sincerely hope Paizo have managed to wring every last fractional cent out of Ninja Division for breaching their contracts with them. Lord knows it couldn't happen to a more deserving exemplar of flim-flammery.

The news must be pretty complicated if it's taken your tech team over a month to get this announcement ready. I certainly hope it isn't yet another "kick the can down the road" moment.

It's strange, in the time since this whole debacle started I've progressed Leaps and bounds in my career, to the point where losing $400 only stings a bit. I've gone through entire campaigns, friendships have come and gone, whole friend groups have disintegrated around me, new ones have coalesced. Family have married, had kids, loved ones have died. And yet here this is.

Even if this delivers I don't have a use for it anymore. The best case scenario here is one day I get a package out of nowhere with a bunch of disassembled figurines I don't have the time to assemble, let alone paint. Just a physical reminder of how much I got let down by Paizo. I can remember a day when I would have been satisfied with store credit to compensate me for my mistake, but even if I were to get it, what would I even do with it?

Is there any plan in place to compensate backers who ordered multiple copies of the same miniature model if Archon does not opt to fulfill for that?

Did we just get "We Know Where You Live"d by the president of Paizo?

Any comment on the posts disappearing? It seems to only be things that can be interpreted as disparaging toward Paizo. Used to be the old mods would leave behind a comment when they disappeared something explaining that something was missing at least...

I know I trusted Paizo. I was in the middle of a period of working 70 hours a week, saw a social media posting from Paizo about a Miniatures Kickstarter for Starfinder. At the time I had money, but, well, no time. I didn't check that Paizo was collaborating with a competent
company, why would I? All I'd ever known was a company whose worst quality to me was occasionally going too far with their errata, not tossing their IP to the wolves.

At this point I haven't purchased a Paizo product since the 2e Playtest book, and have no intention of doing so again until this debacle is concluded and I am made whole (be it through Archon finishing the KS or Paizo issuing compensatory store credit for digital media, or something similar) , or I achieve such a degree of career success that $400 ceases to be a meaningful amount of money.

How about maybe don't make promises until you know you can keep them, or maybe make gaining control of the line of communication so you can keep people in the loop a priority? Archon voluntarily took on this task, likely as part of getting the IP license. Am I out of line for having a expectation of mere competence here, as someone who has literally hundreds sunk into this?

The (convenient) Void of Nonexistence would be my guess.

Color me surprised...

Ninja Division will fulfill NA and Rest of World

I know there's been some concern about how Ninja Division can afford shipping charges. It's my understanding that they've set money aside from their Humble Bundles and from their ongoing sales to pay for shipping.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

-Jim

Is there a way to demonstrate that Ninja Division has the capacity to do anything they claim to? Can you provide some sort of official proof they actually have any money for shipping? If they "run out of bubble wrap" or "can't find the GO button" is Paizo prepared to either shoulder the shipping burden or find yet another company willing to do so?

Please understand these guys are the reason this project is now 24 months behind schedule, it's a little hard for me to believe in this baseline level of competence from ND. It is especially difficult because the main obstacle I've had finding someone to buy my pledge has been the fact that ND IS STILL INVOLVED WITH SHIPPING. Potentially interested people don't trust them to ship a blasted thing at this point.

You might also want to check your secret contract to figure out if intentionally ignoring the backers can be considered evidence of bad faith. We can see how frequently they log on, so we can tell that someone over there does a lot of lurking.

Ninja Division has no incentive to help us, and at this point I'd say no incentive to listen to Paizo either. They got our money, and shoved their obligations onto Archon and now are just ignoring the world.

The Pledge Manager company got back to me this afternoon, and their advice to me was, quite literally, pester ND and associates until ND gets in touch with me, because the pledge manager can't do anything without their say-so. So with that in mind, I apologize in advance for any kooky things I might do in the coming days

No update from ND is forthcoming. Since we'd need their approval to sell a pledge, we're hosed.

50% of what I paid to the Kickstarter in Paizobux. Heck, a couple bricks of Starfinder Battles would be nice, considering that's what I actually wanted 2 years ago.

Is it too late for Archon to back out of this act of good will?

I'm not obligated to like key lime pie just because you made me key lime Pie. Especially when I ordered pumpkin pie from someone else, who was lying about having pumpkins. Could have given me money back, a franchise voucher, maybe even tried to make your own pumpkin pie. But the decision was to present me with something I didn't order, and ignored on the menu.

I feel vindicated because for the last month I'd been waiting for the "but" and to me this was a doozy of one. I've never been a crafty sort of person, my life is full of horribly botched craft projects and me with glue horrifies most of my family. Paint is as crafty as I get, and even that is perilous.

So for me I've gone from throwing all in on something because it's close enough to what I wanted, to not getting it, to realizing the people I paid for it will never be able to get it, to being informed that I will be getting something for my troubles...only it's even further away from what I paid for. And I'm being told that it is rude for me to voice my irritation at this.

I did not pay for unassembled plastic parts, I paid for whole resin figures. I would be fine with either assembled or resin, but this?

I know, I know..."Be happy you're getting anything at all, nobody had to do this for you" right? At least I get the warm feeling of vindication out of this last bit.

I ran the numbers, and assuming they started immediately last month and made the maximum possible number of minis for each month, they'd be done somewhere around February of 2021. A far cry from 5 years. Of course the more realistic estimate would be by the end of 2021.

The can got kicked down the road a while, unless you live in the EU

The sad part is with Armory Starfinder was reaching the threshold of playability for me (I like having a lot of content), but any time I think about Starfinder now I associate it with getting ripped off, lied to, and strung along for half a year by people I gave hundreds of dollars to.

The fulfillment of this Kickstarter, whether through receiving all the miniatures from the $400 level, receiving a full refund, $200 in Paizo credit, or some similar level of recompense is all I need here. After that I have no problem hopping into the game. There are Starfinder games I'm eager to join once playing doesn't feel like a sleazebath

For what it's worth, the ND crew are active on their other Kickstarter pages. Granted, they're just there to chide angry backers on their negativity toward being ripped off, but still...

I don't think Paizo's cut of this would cover ND's debt to Archon. Besides, doing that would be a horrible decision for Paizo to make, considering ND would likely just fumble the ball again by running out of bubble wrap or packing peanuts. Paizo would then be left with ND in debt to them, with no way for them to pay it off, and the minis would still be out of backer hands.

Paizo would have to actually believe ND to be competent and have the spare capital to risk. Considering the current situation they're in financially, I don't blame them for the inaction there.

Its scattered all over the place, boardgamegeek, the chibi gamers Facebook, the kickstarter page, a couple Archon Studios pages, even back a few pages in this forum. The end of March is the end of (if I understand it correctly) a fiscal quarter where Archon's warehouses are. If the minis they've already manufactured are there at the end of the quarter, they get taxed for them. The whole reason Paizo was doing negotiations with Archon was to try and get their hands on them before they were destroyed by Archon to avoid paying taxes for what Ninja Division couldn't afford to pay for.

Sara Marie wrote:

"does not put backers' prospects of receiving miniatures from Ninja Division's kickstarter campaign at further risk. "

A fine sentiment but I'm not sure how our chances of receiving any figures can drop below 0%.

I think they're haggling with Archon Studios to try and get the Starfinder Minis already manufactured out of Ninja Division's custody.

Got a link?

Archon choke-slams Ninja Division under a bus

I got an auto-reply from that email within half an hour.

Archon has a new update. Looks like you might be able to get Starfinder miniatures through Archon now

Actual Thrice-Damning News

That's an interesting (publically available) place to find news...

The company had been giving its backers updates — 132 of them — but “communication from a small group of backers has become increasingly vocal and hostile” and threatening, it said. Cadice told the Statesman that’s why the company stopped engaging with its customers.

People tend to do this when they become convinced you're cheating them. It took me MONTHS before I became vocal, but I became vocal because nobody was talking to me.

Damning news

Just gonna leave this here...

Has Ninja Division provided Paizo with a timeline of when they expect to be able to fulfill all of their obligations to backers, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

Has Ninja Division provided Paizo an explanation for going completely radio silent to their backers for 3 months now, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

Did Paizo approach Ninja Division for this project, or did Ninja Division approach Paizo?

Does Paizo have a plan in place for Ninja Division completely failing to deliver on anything from here on out, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

How much of the $500k that this kickstarter pulled in did Paizo receive for their licensing?

Why does the contract Paizo has with Ninja Division have stringent measures in place regarding disclosure of information, but nothing at all in place regarding one party in the contract doing their very best performance of "Fleeing the Country With the Money in D Major"?

When there is substantive silence hearsay is deafening

Weird flex but okay.

Put another way: I'm not buying Paizo products until either Ninja Division delivers, Paizo makes good on ND's scammery somehow, or I borrow enough friends' copies of newer Paizo material to equal $400.

The fact that a small handful of minis seem to have spurted out into random backers like the last bit of condiment spraying from an empty condiment bottle has me a little confused. You'd think they'd be trying to spin it as their comeback or at the very least mentioning it in any way...

The kickstarter comment feeds are filled with people looking into things. This summation pulls from all the reports from backers that actually got product from the Kickstarter, a comment by Archon (the company that manufactures Ninja Division's resin miniatures, and Ninja Division's response to their state Attorney General's inquiries into the matter.

Sometimes silence means nothing more than there's nothing new to say.

We continue to do everything we can to help Ninja Division fulfill all of their commitments. They have now successfully shipped all of the Humble Bundle figures and the pre-painted sets that they started before the Kickstarter. In the end, both of those turned out great. If you can look at the pre-painted sets objectively, they're pretty amazing figures.

Ninja Division's Starfinder Masterclass Kickstarter has been trying and frustrating for everyone involved, and that includes Ninja Division. They're no happier about the way this has gone than you are, or we are. They're working diligently to correct manufacturing and shipping problems as fast as they can, and we're doing everything we can to help them. I wouldn't say that it has been a perfect storm, but while the issues that they've faced are fairly normal in the business it isn't normal to have them all happen on the same project.

We remain optimistic that Ninja Division will eventually be able to fulfill the Kickstarter, but we don't have a timeline for when that will happen. All we can do is continue to work with them, support them, and help them as much as we can.

As always, if you have questions about the Kickstarter, you should direct them to Ninja Division at either info@ninjadivision.com or starfinder@ninjadivision.com.

Considering the new information (likely concealed from Paizo), this didn't age well...

Archon is their resin miniature Manufacturer. Turns out they won't produce minis for you if you decide not to pay them.

I just want what was taken from me (with Paizo's assistance) back. Once that happens I can go back to business as usual. I've got a pretty big backlog of Paizo stuff I'd love to buy with that $400.

That wasn't a public statement. That's what they told an Attorney General when some complaints caused them to make inquiry. This is something they'd likely have never wanted to see the light of day...

GoogleDoc from the Kickstarter
Attorney General Response

Someone on the Super Dungeon Explore KS posted the ND response to their Attorney General, and it's illuminating.

1. ND needs 750k to complete the Super Dungeon Explore Kickstarter.
2. They used Kickstarter money to pay their non-kickstarter overhead.
3. They likely knew they were basically insolvent before the Starfinder KS was announced and Paizo either knew or was lied to about this.
4. The Starfinder Minis backers have been sporadically getting are almost certainly only being made to avoid legal action from Paizo.
5. They seem to have mastered the art of hiding behind Kickstarter's disclaimers.
6. They touted their Customer "Service" guy as evidence of good faith. Guess who got laid off a week ago?

I think I figured out where our backer money went...

They've taken on mini design/production for an X-files/Men in Black crossover board game
press release

And yesterday their customer service guy announced on their forums that it was his last day
Resignation/Termination

That's what happens when you slap a handful of minis in boxes and ship them to people to stay within contractual obligations...

nothing forthcoming about any of the Starfinder miniature lines

Soda Pop Miniatures Ninja Division are in charge of Starfinder Minis. At present rate minis should be a thing in 2024 or so.

Apparently, if new reports are to be believed, all creatures in Starfinder are 3/4 size. That's one way to save on production costs I guess...
"...but I am almost certain they are not 25 mm miniatures. I believe them to be 20mm, possibly even 15mm..." September 26

Huzzah, now they're only half a year behind!

I wonder where the clog is on this mythical Additional Resources update?

especially if we are planning to transition to PF2 at release, and only play via PFS - never being able to use the books we subscribed to use is irritating. It is causing me to think about canceling my player companion subsciption.

It certainly took the sting out of canceling my subscriptions

So far from my experience with the system, you could basically replace the Resonance system in its entirety with the rule "At least one party member must have the Channel Energy class feature, be it as a Cleric, a Paladin, or any other rules options" because that's what it does. If you have it, resonance might as well not exist. If you don't, Resonance comes down on you like a ton of bricks after a couple fights.

- Channel Life: a feat instead of the PF1 class feature.

To be fair, Channel Life basically gives a Paladin "Lay On Hands, Only Even Better Than 1e" due to how the Heal spell works in 2e.

It doesn't even begin to justify how weak the rest of the Paladin's defensive kit is though. The 1e Paladin is a Teflon-coated Hammer of Justice that flat ignores a host of debilitating conditions through sheer faith and resolve while Evil melts before them. The 2e Paladin...isn't those things.