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Received my first shipment (Indiana). Got 2 Elf Operatives, 2 Human Thieves, 2 Candy(s), Iseph the Operative, and Raia the Technomancer.
Detail on them are great. I am disappointed in the bases, however. They have a slot in them; I expected solid bases. Bottoms of the feet of the minis have some excess plastic, which do not it into the slots of the bases. Plus, the slots are off center. I went ahead and actually trimmed the excess off the feet, no big deal. Hoping to get the better bases next time.
Am concerned a bit about them coming off the bases after super gluing. Won’t take much to separate.
Someone asked about brittleness- they do seem a bit brittle. I mean, they certainly aren’t the flexible plastic that painted minis are, but I am able to wiggle slightly some of the parts sticking out like arms, legs, cape, etc. The part would break off for sure if I bent it too much. I will be asking my players to be careful and not throw these around like we do with the usual pre-painted stuff. They won’t break or deform if dropped, though.
One of the minis, Iseph, as mentioned by others, does have a shine on him. I ran it under water but the shine is still there. Not that a big of deal since I’ll prime them.
None of them were sticky as some have mentioned.
None of this first shipment had any defects whatsoever. No bent weapons, etc. All in superb shape.
Concerning “communication.” I’ve been receiving periodic updates via email since January, so I don’t know why everyone is saying they haven’t “heard” anything. I know ND is late on their initial assessment of shipping, but this is entirely expected with anything on Kickstarter. People need to calm down a bit, jeez. Drama queens.
I sure hope ND is getting a good deal on shipping! Gonna be hella expensive to keep shipping such small portions.
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If you look at one of the latest updates from ND they explain that they ran out of slotless bases and sent some out with Slotted bases. They are keeping track of who they sent them out to and you will get slotless bases with a later shipment.
As for their communication, it is very poor, especially for those waiting outside of the USA. we have no idea if we are even on this latest shipping round as no-one has reported receiving anything, including shipping notices, internationally. I don't think wanting to know when to expect the stuff that we have paid for makes us Drama Queens. I have backed a fair number of Kickstarters, and communication is paramount.
It is called managing expectations.
I've had the same experience, for the most part. Some figs are shiny, some are not, and all are brittle. I broke the weapon off my vesk, broke the drone, and also had to take a file to the feet of the minis. I, too, received slotted bases. I hope this turns around at some point, as all this game is missing is some great minis.
You guys will get some/all of your miniature I’m sure but the when is going to be the big question.
I’m more worried about competence than deceit. They continually make announcements about what’s about to happen, then months later apologise that it didn’t.
Meanwhile, those of us who are receiving minis get random, partial collections. Does anyone really think they’re able to reliably track which of my all-in pledge plus addons they’ve sent me so far?
They couldn’t even order the right number of bases with over twelve months of lead time.
When backers start getting duplicate shipments and missing out on other figures, where’s the money going to come from to complete our orders?
I’m more worried about competence than deceit.
No level of incompetence keeps you from noticing that you're not delivering on past products, and then go writing articles blaming "toxic" communities for complaining about being ripped off oh, and changing your name because it became synonymous with taking the money and then not providing the goods.
Mistaking malice for incompetence only goes so far.
People bought into these things despite Ninja Division/Soda Pop miniatures despite their sketchy service because they thought paizo was too big to screw over/thought paizo would be big enough to take some recourse.
Nothing for me either. Now one of the threads is posting that there is a new Kickstarter coming from them for a different company. Why was Paizo so careless about their license. They have had such a good track record before. This is really frustrating.
Not just that, but its spin-off fiction books for Super Dungeon Explore. You know, the IP they have a Kickstarter for that's failed to deliver for years now? So it's even stupider.
Also their PR guy called the company owner a liar, so there is that too.
Nothing for me either. Now one of the threads is posting that there is a new Kickstarter coming from them for a different company. Why was Paizo so careless about their license. They have had such a good track record before. This is really frustrating.
Not just that, but its spin-off fiction books for Super Dungeon Explore. You know, the IP they have a Kickstarter for that's failed to deliver for years now? So it's even stupider.
Also their PR guy called the company owner a liar, so there is that too.
On the Super Dungeon Explore: Legends Kickstarter.
"...I am not asking you to have faith, I'm telling you that I do. I understand if you're out of trust. That makes complete sense to me. Mr. Cadice has a tendency to speak quickly and out of a deep passion for this project. His messaging, regardless of where provides it, is not always adherent to the truth or our official messaging..." September 14th
I received a set of minis on 9/21:
Dwarf Soldier (hero)
Drone (flying - with clear peg to mount)
Outlaw - gang boss (Ferani Nadaz - DS AP)
Android hired gun (Clara 247 - DS AP)
Ysoki gang leader (Jabaxa - DS AP)
Many of the feet have excess on the bottom that needs work to be able to stand them up / mount.
I also received 5 “bases” that are very thin plastic wafers, nothing like the bases pictured in Kickstarter. Kind of disappointing.
So far to date I have 11 minis. Many, many more expected.... hopefully someday.
"The Vesk and Ysoki figures in this wave, as with all figures in this campaign, were fully approved by Paizo. You can see a living chart of our approval and manufacturing progress at the top of the campaign page. It is my understanding that the artwork we were provided with did not include the tail, and it was likely overlooked by both parties. Otherwise, it is intentional and officially approved." September 24th
Alright, so who in Paizo's Starfinder team wants to weigh in on ND claiming Paizo approved their sculpts?
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Apparently, if new reports are to be believed, all creatures in Starfinder are 3/4 size. That's one way to save on production costs I guess...
"...but I am almost certain they are not 25 mm miniatures. I believe them to be 20mm, possibly even 15mm..." September 26
I read that too. Based on the pictures I’ve seen I don’t think it’s anywhere near 15-20 mm small but she me look below 25mm.
All in backer here as well. I have yet to receive a single miniature and the multiple promises of "they'll be going out soon" are getting really stale. Their last excuse was they ran out of bubble wrap. Really? Run down to Staples and buy some. Their latest update today was that all of wave 1 is packed and ready to ship next week. I'd like to believe it, but once burned and all that. I checked with my bank and Kickstarter and it's too late to request a refund, so I'm stuck as well.
The shame of it is that Paizo is a great company, but Ninja Division/Soda Pop Miniatures (wonder why they changed their name....?) is dragging Paizo's name through the mud with this.
Apparently, if new reports are to be believed, all creatures in Starfinder are 3/4 size. That's one way to save on production costs I guess...
"...but I am almost certain they are not 25 mm miniatures. I believe them to be 20mm, possibly even 15mm..." September 26
Where did you see the sizes?
Check the kickstarter comments
Kickstarter is a weird beast. We’re not buying a product, we’re backing a project.
As long as the project is continuing, we haven’t been fraudulently charged. The timelines are estimates (I’ve even seen projects change the product they end up producing - apparently that is okay too, believe it or not). Backers often treat Kickstarter as a preorder service, but that isn’t actually what’s happening when you support a project.
It’s going to be tough to prove breach of contract or other wrongdoing at this stage. They’ve failed to meet deadlines they’ve set, but those deadlines weren’t terms of the contract. There are some quality issues, but they have a replacement process in place.
Due to the poor communication, we don’t really know where they’re up to in terms of fulfilment. Inevitably, should it come to that, by the time it’s crystal clear this project has failed, there’ll be no money left to reclaim.
FWIW, I’m not convinced it will be a total failure. I suspect it will limp along for years and eventually result in most backers getting most of what they pledged for. ND seem to be doing more than necessary if they were crooks. I just think they’re just very, very bad at producing and shipping large numbers of miniatures (and worse at recognising how bad they are).
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Due to the poor communication, we don’t really know where they’re up to in terms of fulfilment. Inevitably, should it come to that, by the time it’s crystal clear this project has failed, there’ll be no money left to reclaim.
Only if there is their own project and they have no inventory. Maybe if they declare bankruptcy, but even then you're an unsecured creditor since they do have an obligation to fulfill their promise of your pledge.
It's not a preorder but it is a contract in the strictest sense.
From the Kickstarter Terms of Use:
"Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
..When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form."
Ninja Division is in violation of the bolded provision at the very least.
Honestly, as the days tick by I'm more and more convinced that the best way to make sure Soda Pop/Ninja Division really stop scamming people is to sue them out of existence. It's pretty clear to me that their kickstarters are used as a way to fund their other projects and then when it comes to fulfilling the Kickstarters they don't have any money, its obviously a sort of ponzi scheme. It hasn't gotten that far with this project yet, but I'm sure their claim of this week shipping wave one is going to be another broken promise.
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I mean seriously, their latest update was there's a delay because they ran out of bubblewrap. You know, because that's not available in every single big box store in America or anything, its super hard to get and is a reason to delay shipping by days.
On the plus side, we know that Paizo is as pissed off (probably more so) than the rest of us. They even are delaying another one of their projects (Super Dungeon Legends) which was funded years before Starfinder to fulfill their Starfinder obligations. This is probably because Paizo is big enough in the game industry that they can exert that kind of pressure (and there's probably some sort of contract between Ninja Division and Paizo that would make not fulfilling the Starfinder kickstarter really bad for Ninja Division.)
My point was really in relation to getting a bank to reverse the charge on your card. That’s going to be a tricky ask at this stage because, by the terms of our contract, the timeline of delivery and even what is actually going to be produced was not set in stone. Banks are loathe to reverse charges and they’ll need better evidence than the current state of affairs to conclude its justified.
.Due to the poor communication, we don’t really know where they’re up to in terms of fulfilment. Inevitably, should it come to that, by the time it’s crystal clear this project has failed, there’ll be no money left to reclaim.Only if there is their own project and they have no inventory. Maybe if they declare bankruptcy, but even then you're an unsecured creditor since they do have an obligation to fulfill their promise of your pledge.
It's not a preorder but it is a contract in the strictest sense.
From the Kickstarter Terms of Use:
"Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
..When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form."
Ninja Division is in violation of the bolded provision at the very least.
Even if it were possible to establish the bolded (not a cheap proposition - people are allowed to make an error and a court process would be required to settle the question) one needs to read that clause carefully - the bolded is a condition required to be met by a creator who has failed to meet their obligations and who then wishes to claim they have remedied the situation. It’s not a blanket “creators are deemed to have failed if they lie”.
At this stage, ND will say they haven’t given up on completing the project and fulfilling rewards yet (packages are still going out, after all) so you wouldn’t have any luck, even if you could prove they’d been dishonest and made material misrepresentations.
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Reaper and Wizkids both declined an offer to produce a licensed Starfinder line.
Reaper and Wizkids both declined an offer to produce a licensed Starfinder line.
Yep.
Not to my knowledge, and seeing how Paizo is currently working with Wizkids on their Pathfinder line I highly doubt that would be the scenario.
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The third-hand rumor I got was that WizKids didn’t have room in their production schedule to get the Starfinder prepainted minis out by the desired release date (August 2017). Being a realistic-minded company, they simply said “we can’t do it.” Ninja Division said “we believe we can make it happen.”
Haven’t heard a rumor about Reaper, but I would suspect something similar.
Anything on the details? Was Paizo low-balling them on the payday?
I believe one of them already has a space fantasy line of their own and they ruled it out on that basis.
I don’t know anything about reaper, but my guess is that there wasn’t room on Wizkids schedule. They already struggle to get PF minis and D&D minis out on time. I suspect adding a whole new product line would make hitting those release dates even tougher.
Ninja division has had no problems releasing their products on time. Only their kickstarters seem to have issues.
I guess this is just what happens when accountability is removed from the equation?
Lately I find myself wishing I had the sheer moral/ethical bankruptcy to pull off what Ninja Division does. I could kiss my financial cares goodbye...
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Well its Thursday and still no word from ND. They said in the last update:
"the remainder of our US/Domestic orders are 100% packed and ready for shipping next week. We are shipping all available Wave 1 miniatures."
I guess that means sometime... Still tomorrow I guess.
Well its Thursday and still no word from ND. They said in the last update:
"the remainder of our US/Domestic orders are 100% packed and ready for shipping next week. We are shipping all available Wave 1 miniatures."
I guess that means sometime... Still tomorrow I guess.
Are they on Venutian time?
They just said that they are not shipping this week but maybe next week they aren’t sure. Company is a complete joke. It’s just excuse after excuse and lie after lie.
Based on what I can see, I theorize they're waiting for the money from their Future House Publishing book deal so they can actually afford to ship product. That's the best case scenario.
Based on what I can see, I theorize they're waiting for the money from their Future House Publishing book deal so they can actually afford to ship product. That's the best case scenario.
In other words, they didn’t include everything their project needed in their budget.
That is a pretty bad look for any company.
I backed the Kickstarter as a late pledge, and did the level below all in (Adventure?).
I've been very confused as to how ND has been handling this, as they went months without an update. I received 4 of the miniatures I picked (I should have received 6, judging by the list of minis they announced they were shipping, compared with my pledge selections), and contacted the company about missing minis. They wrote me back that I had received the SECOND shipment (what?!), and that's why my selections didn't line up (which was wrong), and that the first shipment had gotten delayed or something. Then there was another one or two that should have shipped, but I've not heard anything from them in months.
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That's what happens when you slap a handful of minis in boxes and ship them to people to stay within contractual obligations...
Based on what I can see, I theorize they're waiting for the money from their Future House Publishing book deal so they can actually afford to ship product. That's the best case scenario.
When you're running that type of fly by your pants operation (bad but trying at least...) shouldn't the starfinder minis have paid for the robo tech minis which paid for the soda pop miniatures?
They take the money in and then NOTHING goes out, not their last product.