The Wyrm Ouroboros's page

Make the squares on the map 2m -- 6' and a bit -- or 2 units. That way the number of squares is a nice easy half -- 5 squares for a regular move, 10 for run, 20 for all-out.

Wrath of the Righteous is a popular AP, in part because of the mythic power element. Lots of interest in it pretty much all the time. :)

Pondering whether or not to submit here anyhow. :P

See this post for what I figure the team can use, and my guess at the templates that would work best for those areas.

*opens mouth, finger raised -- pauses -- closes mouth, lowers finger*

Still not sure what 'dot' means ...

'Dotting in' refers to posting a period -- '.' -- and by doing so to be able to have the thread show up on your focused list of threads, so that you can continue to track the thread and see what's new, what's going on, replies etc. without having to hunt the thread down in the larger amount of threads on the board.

In brief, it's a shorthand way of saying, 'I am interested enough in the contents of this thread / recruitment / campaign to want to keep track of it.'

Despite getting into one of the Wrath/Righteous tables, I'm still tempted to put together a qinggong ZAM / psychic.

Tell that to Baphomet.

D'oops!! Link removed.

Silas Hawkwinter wrote:

I'm going to add one thing to Rix's submission if I may, some people pace, others bite their nails. I'm imagining Rix doing slow tai-chi like katas for at least several hours per day. Adorable or annoying depending on your point of view.

I don’t actually see Rix’s profile anywhere? I checked the Rix alias on your page and it’s a level 4 Magus?

Rix's information can be found in this post in this thread.

For the food/water thing ... in the previous game I played Aerianna in, I did come up with a solution for the tainted water problem, at least.

And here I was going to just post here. ;)

On p. 498 of the REUP edition, there's a tongue-tied engineer template ... ;)

Dotted in, withdrawn:
TheWaskally
KingHotTrash

----------------------
Dotted In
Cuàn
rorek55
polyfrequencies
Veltharis
Mightypion
Trevor86
Saashaa
Shadow Dragon
JohnTheSavage
Evindyl - Zephyr Amir
Goliath
Hayato Ken
Rikash
Locmore

----------------------
Completed Characters (in order of appearance)
Simeon - Angahaar, LG male human bloodrager/dragonheir scion fighter (dragonheir scion)
Ouachitonian - Lysander the Swordsman, CG male elf bladebound magus / wildblooded sorcerer of the sage.
A Leaf On The Wind - Elwing, LG female musetouched aasimar purifier oracle / legate (+??) paladin of (??)
JenkinsMyMan - Gadlan O'Laughlin, LG male angelkin aasimar primalist bloodrager / paladin against chaos of Olheon
Jereru - Nioku, CG female half-orc urban ranger / arsenal chaplain warpriestess of Milani
mittean - Ceilidh Blackwood, LG Chelaxian male human wildcat master of many styles flowing monk / cross-wildblooded sorcerer
The Wyrm Ouroboros - Aerianna Flametongue, LG female lawbringer aasimar tempered champion paladin of the Mendevian Crusade / phantom thief rogue
Nazard - Tart Cranberry, aka 'TC', TN male vine leshy slayer / gestalt telekineticist
Johnny_Panic - Ambassador_Annara_Utoxier-Lee, NG female aasimar overwhelming soul kineticst / physic(?) detective investigator
eriktd - Shella Demonsbane, CN female tiefling (passes for human) snakebite striker brawler / seducer witch of Calistria
Kazmanaught - Regnis of Ustalav, LN male veleeta-born dhampir spirit binder diviner (wizard) / chronicler of worlds and speaker of the palatine eye bard
Silas Hawkwinter - Rix, LG male halfling dawnflower dervish bard / virtuous bravo paladin of Sarenrae
Mus - Naomi Gilmour, CG female night-born changeling evangelist cleric / monster tactician and ravener hunter inquisitor of Shelyn

----------------------
Only 38 hours to go!!

Either would work for us, I think.

Don’t forget to trim your quotes back. ;)

Just increase the totals. 2D+1 becomes 3D+1. This goes for your skills, too — Blaster at +1D on Dex of 4D makes Blaster 5D.

I have no idea. My intention is, when we get to that point, to move instinctively towards the ship. Hmmm … let’s call it … the ‘Kanga Tor’. Not named by him, but he believes that renaming a ship is unlucky.

A preliminary review of Dartel Tarkin (yes, those Tarkins)

A couple of things -- is it okay to split the starting 7D of skills into the component three pips for adding, as I have above?

Also, the other element -- can the ship be upgraded to a YT-2400 instead of a YT-1300, the one out of the 2E Pirates and Privateers?

I'm good with it not being a literal 'YT-2400', but something along the above lines, perhaps reskinned -- or one of the other light freighters out of that book -- with the amount 'owed to a crime boss' increasing to match the 'used' cost of the ship? Considering the campaign start, he probably doesn't even know that he has a ship -- just shipkeys on a chain around his neck.

(Speaking of which, looking for a first mate ...)

Can you tell us what we have so far, to fit in with, what is needed/would be a good idea to have? (And to prevent some amount of duplication of effort.) I'm somewhat interested in playing an alien, but only somewhat -- 'close-enough-humanoid' akin to Grand Admiral Thrawn's species would be fine as well.

And, actually, I'm not finding the general templates in the 2E book. Should I be looking in another?

Oh, I am absolutely on board with this if I can.

I think a revision of Aerianna Flametongue may make it in as an application.

What I wrote simply worked with the three things you suggested or implied you were interested in playing with:

a) The Intrigue rules, with all the characters being members of thieves' guilds, secret organizations, or whatnot;
b) The Nation rules, with army battles, fortress- and nation-building, and all that sort of thing; and
c) The Colossi, PCs fighting against massive monsters.

The Xa Hoi / Dtang Ma scenario is one that deals most readily and easily with all three. Really, though, what must be established is what Sir Longears has said: what lies at the core of what you want to run? Re-using the Mongol campaign's themes? If so, then running 'conquer all Casmaron' is what you want, with the PCs coming out of Iobaria or, perhaps, are among the horselords of the Windswept Wastes that surround the Pit of Gormuz. Thing of it is, these guys are horselords -- which means when one of the Spawn of Rovagug emerge, they get the hell out of its way, and wave cheerfully as it wanders into some more civilized and populated area.

In fact, there's an idea right there -- a new Spawn has emerged, and is trundling south. Some bright warlord has the idea to follow in its tracks, raiding and pillaging the wrecked civilizations it plows through. Instead of being those resisting the armies of the colossus, we could be the army of the colossus, riding through Persia and India and laying waste to them, perhaps even infiltrating ahead of the Spawn of Rovagug and assassinating particularly powerful or talented individuals who would be the great spellcasters or those who organize the resistance against the Spawn.

We don't have to be evil ... we just don't have to be good. ;)

The 'recruiting pool' (as you're calling it) is because the continent of Tian Xia is incredibly cosmopolitan, specifically because almost all of its countries are only a decade or two out of being a unified country, with officials, soldiers, and their families having been sent where-ever they were assigned -- or, in the case of the two mentioned potential southern nations, possibly having been refugees from conquest, refusing to bow down to the Imperial Overlord. The PCs are potentially second-generation individuals, who first learned the culture of (for example) Minkai from their parents and grandparents while living in another country, one to which they are loyal -- or were recruited into the organization in their home countries because they hated their Lung Wa overlords.

It's the same sorts of reasons for spies and agents today.

In any case. Any of them could be interesting, though I think the Dis game would have to be really particular, because ten characters with ten different reasons to be there are usually going to ignore each other and go their ten different ways.

A good Golarion world map would strongly suggest that the Mongol hobgoblin hordes of Kaoling are rather boxed-in, far from the Empire of Kelesh and the Pit of Gormuz and even farther from Kellid lands (the Worldwound, Numeria, the River Kingdoms, etc.). Taking over / re-establishing the Empire of Lung Wa and then haring off to an entirely different continent to fight giant monsters seems silly to me when we have our own giant monsters to our south.

Instead of rampaging across the land, and considering the original idea was for everyone to be members of thieves' guilds / secret societies (at least one of the tri/quad-stalt needing to be a class that gave 6 or 8 skill points per level), and considering there definitely seems to be a sense of 'let's hunt big things', allow me to reiterate my previous suggestion -- with modifications.

-----------------

The characters are part of a truly secret society, established and directed by one of the major magical elements in the south of the Tian Xian continent -- Xa Hoi (akin to RL Thailand, ruled by the Dragon King Pham Duc Quan, an imperial dragon in human guize) and Dtang Ma (akin to RL Vietnam, ruled by five sorcerers) would appear to be the best bets, the former because hey, dragon, and the latter because hey, powerful sorcerers; even better, perhaps the Dragon King and the over-sorcerer run this secret society together. Their membership infiltrates other such societies across the continent, becoming moles within other nations' secret police and the like, helping them to spy upon the other nations and governments, give them early warning if something is going on, that sort of thing. You know, secret super-spy stuff.

Now, Minata (akin to RL Indonesia / Philippines) can barely be called a country, and might best be described as a loose confederation of little isolated island 'kingdoms'; demon-worshippers, monsters, vile sorcerers, and profane priests live scattered across the southern islands. What if one (or a cabal) not only learns to generate and control kaiju, Brobdignagian or not, but (a la Dragonlance) can convert their proto-offspring into fierce monster/near-humanoid soldiers by the hundreds or thousands? They roll over Nagajor, and threaten Po Li, Quain, Dtang Ma, and Xa Hoi.

Now the Dragon King and the Five Sorcerers are needing to put their most elite agents (the PCs) on the job. On the one hand, we would have to help Po Li and Quain defend themselves (because, with the plains, they're more readily vulnerable than Dtang Ma and Xa Hoi); on the other hand, we'd be involved in working sub-rosa in the other realms, trying to bring them together to face this Omega-level threat.

Hell, we might fight in Quain and lose, because a handful of people can do only so much -- beat off one of the fourteen in-game kaiju, but the army loses the battle because outnumbered 3:1 or more -- but that just ups the ante, and then we're in a fighting retreat, trying to preserve as much of Quain's armies and supplies as we can before we're engaged (and lose again!) in Lingshen. At that point the pressure really mounts, because of course we'll have 'lost' twice, and of course everyone else wants to be in charge, and ...

... and it's a campaign!! ;)

Because it's a secret society infiltrating other secretive guilds and the like, our characters could be anyone from Tian Xia, socially or racially -- elves, hobgoblins, whatever. And while our alignments might vary a lot, we still should be loyal to whichever overlord(s) we've sworn our oath to; it's just that our methods might be wildly different. (And have that 'you did wrong, feel my displeasure' element in there, losing levels or tiers for a time.)

... hmmm. Tian Xia, 16th level quadralt / 18th level tristalt ...

Okay, look.

These sorts of characters, this sort of power level, is flat-out ginormous, no matter how you slice it. Mythic, non-mythic -- and make no mistake, I'd love the 6/6/6 rules, just amped up to 12+ -- you need stunningly godlike enemies to face in a campaign like this.

So give us them.

Sure, we can have fortress-building, and kingdom-handling, and massive armies clashing with each other. Give us a reason, though, to a) work together, and b) use all of that. Give us great and terrible enemies, a vast nigh-endless sequence of them, each with veritable armies against which ours can clash.

Give us Pacific Rim kaiju monsters for the armies' 'generals', and swarms of lesser monsters (such as those in the relatively-horrible Matt Damon film 'Great Wall'), or armies of more normal soldiers, for our armies to fight against. Tactics and strategy, encouraging the health and well-being of the nation(s) of which we are the rulers and/or heroes, salvaging what we can from a battle's loss, retreating to prepared defenses, etc. etc.

If you intend to bring in all the court stuff, let there be a third kingdom/empire that is currently neutral, in whose court and territory both parties (ours as well as the kaiju-masters) are maneuvering, trying to get the leadership of said neutral third nation to side with us. That'd allow us to enjoy general skulduggery (assassinations of semi-important assistants in our enemies' staff or of 'bought' assistants to influential people in the neutral government, theft of critical messages, that sort of thing) and subtle political games without automatically removing the pressure of the kaiju+army onslaught. A breakdown in negotiations on one side or the other, or perhaps we're 'winning' the negotiations -- but the scouts reveal that another army is approaching, and we have to break off negotiations to rush home and prepare our forces to defeat the WorldBreakers, giving the other side a chance to regain lost negotiation territory.

Definitely set some RP / background / drive ground rules, such as you have for the Mongol campaign: 'you are all part of X'. Definitely do NOT allow direct or indirect back-stabbing, and create a direct, IC methodology to penalize such; perhaps we're the Emperor's favorites, but screwing around with each other (and with our side's chances and such) means that the Empress withdraws some of her favor from that PC, dropping them a level or two, or a Mythic tier or two.

Im sorry you are viewing my observations as attacks. I apologize.

For someone who has the DL gazetter and claims to know so much about the lore, well I think the deficits are sad.

The above quote is not an observation, it's an attack. I'm sorry you believe that it is; I apologize.

Your attempt to act as if you are familiar with DL lore because you have a gazetter.

I'm still not entirely certain to what you're trying to refer; is this in response to something?

I'm the first to admit that I don't have anything near perfect knowledge of Dragonlance; I stopped reading the novels and the rest decades, not years, ago. My knowledge comes from the original two trilogies (Chronicles and Legends), the original AD&D sourcebook for Dragonlance (with Tanis standing over Ariakas holding up the crown and Soth behind him making a fist of triumph), and Fonstad's Atlas. So most everything written after that is outside of my knowledge base, though I've been reading a lot lately from the various sourcebooks, enough so that I can do this:

Re: the elven vision in Dragonlance, Thalasi is correct -- elves in Dragonlance have 30' darkvision as well. It's also in the Hero Lab conversion for Dragonlance (which conversion is pretty good, though not perfect).

In any case, Thalasi, these are clearly attacks on me as a player. Do you wish to continue?

... I have no idea what you’re trying to refer to. Sorry.

And no, I don't know Kalis background. From what I have read from her postings it is a small novel that I frankly have neither the time or the desire or interest to read. I was not aware that reading of your characters life story was a prerequisite to interacting with her.

Apparently nobody's is -- at least to you. Also, my statement that it was written prior to the decision was just made, so your excuse about eye surgery doesn't apply. In any case, no, I haven't changed that part of the background, and thank you for the reminder (however phrased) to do so.

If 'mi hito' is meant to be 'mi hijo', I'll request you to stop that immediately. I am not 'your son' in any sense of the word.

desist your foul language in your description of me. See how this works?

Congratulations, you had a civil interaction.

Clearly you don't read very well. Let me bold it: That was before we established that even if you didn't take the Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, if you'd taken the Test you were still a member.

Oh, absolutely -- though that was before we established that even if you didn't take the Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, if you'd taken the Test you were still a member. Which is why her cloak of protection was converted into her Red Robe.

However, mmm ... no, no you haven't apologized. You did say 'As far as I can tell I have apologized. Sone Jacob was offered an apology who ever that is. I'm glad they received a apology,' which to be frank is a dick move when by context it was clear Kalisuel's player was addressing you. That doesn't mean you apologized, make that an apology, or any other thing of the sort. All the rest of your posts have been b!tching about how I share the fault in your bad behavior. So if you want to have apologized, I would suggest you actually come out and do so.

No, I have not apologized -- to you -- for my earlier posts. Until I see a change in your behavior, I will not offer one, and I may not offer one even then. Nor do I need an apology; if you owe anyone an apology, it's Kalisuel, whom you mortally insulted.

Yes, my responses to whatever ill-conceived things you put into Thalasi's hands are my own fault; I for one have never denied this, nor have I ever thought it to be otherwise, whether for a text-based game like this or RL; my actions are my own, thank you. I do not blame you for my actions.

I do, however, blame you for your own. If you have Thalasi act like an assh0le, Thalasi will be treated (by me at least) as the assh0le he is being. Don't act like an assh0le, and you won't be treated as one, but as a social member of the group. In my opinion, if you continue in this vein then the first time we interact socially with NPCs is when Thalasi will crash and burn most spectacularly; I don't know if the GM is willing to allow players Plot Armor to an extent, protecting them from the consequences of their social actions, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

I do have issue with the idea that Peregrine has been pompous or pontificated, but I don't mind you having that belief; it does fit in with you ascribing to other people the actions you have Thalasi enact.

Lastly, I have no intention of 'coming out swinging', as you put it; I don't need to come out swinging, or even swing at all. You will play Thalasi however you wish; I will play Peregrine as I have so far, willing to defend her friend and willing to not put up with an elven White Robe's arrogant snotty bullsh!t, even when he insults her by suggesting she return her Robe and 'maintain the status of dabbler and hedge wizaes' -- to which she responded thus:

"Definitely something to keep in mind," Peregrine agrees with (perhaps surprising) equanimity, then shakes her head a little; she otherwise keeps her attention on the beach behind them.

So, y'know -- ball's in your court.

I had posted.

I have since reconsidered my stance.

As JASON RODARTE has even now continued to pursue a campaign to try to shift the blame for his own impolite, inconsiderate, arrogant, ignorant, ill-conceived, and offensive gameplay, and place it onto Peregrine -- not one example of which is actually capable of being as gently interpreted as JASON RODARTE has suggested they should be in either this post or this -- I am no longer willing to 'play nice', keep my distance, or whatever.

JASON:
- You continue to complain that my commentary about that the pencil thing (that it was probably meant for Bander) was an attack; it was not. Nobody else sees it as one.
- You suggest that Thalasi's commentary about 'civilized places' was meant for kender and elves as well as 'monstrous races'; you cannot have your cake and eat it too, as Thalasi certainly considers elves to be civilized, which directly implies that he means the ogre at the very least, and possibly the member of the (highly civilized and widely-accepted) minotaur race as well, but not elves.
- Saying that he meant 'business tends to be friendly until the money stops coming in' is bullsh!t, when what he said was, 'Tell me, was there ever any undue treatment you tolerated for the chance of an extra steel for a tip, some unwanted attention since the customer was always right?bias it 4h3 customer or their coin?' This implies heavily that both Kali and Otik would be putting up with 'undue treatment', as compared to the 'smack them across the face, let the bouncer beat them up, and throw them out the door' actual event that is the reality in a good inn -- especially since this follows directly on Thalasi's comment about 'civilized places'.
- Peregrine also did not imply -- or mean to imply, certainly -- that Thalasi was a Dark Elf; her question about his leaving Qualinost very specifically did not ask if he was kicked out, and came on the heels of his pompous explanation about the Towers and the Lost Battles. If anything, it implied that he was insufferably snooty, to the point that even other elves can't stand him, but since he isn't evil (or even neutral) they can't actually kick him out, just -- and this is a quote -- 'strongly suggested' that he leave.

Don't even TRY to put the blame for your character's bad behavior onto me any more, as you did when saying 'so please stop acting as if Thalasi is the only one acting up when from the beginning Peri has been just as much to blame for actions he has taken and replies he has given. Plus demanding a fight is pretty bad as well.' I am not writing your posts; YOU ARE. Peregrine has backed off previously; you haven't backed off once. No player is to blame for the posts of another. And demanding a fight is by no means 'bad'.

Did Peregrine needle Thalasi? Yes; in most cases, she even did it mildly, even teasing. But your 'reminder' to the GM that Peregrine was willing to step up and beat the ever-living sh!t out of Thalasi for offering an offense that demands it means that you are not actually willing to modulate your behavior. And I am no longer willing to step back and let you continue to be an assh0le without responding.

Every single other person here, player and GM, is recognizing that you went too far. You are barely doing that, and every time you do, it's followed by pointing the finger at Peregrine and sometimes Kalisuel. I am no longer willing to let you get away with that.

I refuse to have Peregrine do anything but continue to respond to Thalasi's actions and words as they warrant response. If it comes to it, as any sort of PvP (including, you know, slapping the sh!t out of an assh0le who desperately needs it) has been formally disallowed, I will continue to play the game until ejected specifically to ensure that Thalasi's bad behavior has consequences, however minor they may be.

If you, JASON RODARTE, you continue to play Thalasi as a snotty, sh!tty, arrogant fvcktard, then yeah, I'm going to make sure that Peregrine remains in his face, calling him on his bullsh!t. If, however, you modulate Thalasi's attitude and offensiveness, and actually consider the real implications of what you post as compared to the ones you create in your head, then there's nothing to worry about; Peregrine will be perfectly courteous.

I'll be damned if I leave a game I've wanted to play since forever because of a bad player like you, but the choice of what happens going forward is yours. Choose your path.

---------------------------------------------
To the rest of everyone:

The above, addressed to Jason, is inflammatory, yes. His petty reminder that 'peregrine threatened violence' (which was not a threat, but a promise that is only stayed by the fact that the GM is not permitting PvP) was the last straw; I despise bullsh!t like that, and I refuse to let him get away with it. I hope that that doesn't touch upon the interactions I have with the rest of you -- which requires some addressing.

Since leaving the Inn, so far as I can tell I have asked politely any time I've offered direction; if I haven't after that point, by all means point me at where I didn't. I have been recommending direction and ideas in part because it's not being done by anyone else. Vrog, Slam would be the logical one to lead -- he has the staff, he's a follower of the god of honor and (basically) the military. I deduce that you don't have the same posting capability, so while I'm willing to step back and let you lead, recognize that that'll slow things down. Recognize also that that'll mean that you have to lead -- if you go this route, we're all counting on you to follow through.

I also may be posting Peregrine as a 'know-it-all', but if that's the interpretation, no offense to anyone who is taking that interpretation, but tough -- Peregrine's corrected two people on their language (Kalisuel, 'the boat' as compared to 'a boat', and Bander, 'pier' versus 'dock'), she possesses a point in every knowledge skill so yeah, she Knows Stuff, but it isn't like she's lecturing people on dangerous magic items and the history of the Towers of High Sorcery and the Kingpriest -- or on any other topic. If that's a know-it-all, fine, I'll take that.

Peregrine has reacted poorly to things she has seen as being ignorant, ill-conceived, offensive, impolite, inconsiderate, or in contrast to actions previously taken. The thing with the boat is an example of the latter; the refusal of Slam to accept assistance or to move under cover are examples of 'ill-conceived'. Virtually everything else has been in reaction to something butt-@ss stupid on the part of Thalasi.

If anyone's been otherwise offended, let me know, and I'll take a look and see if there's something I can do.

I intend to address one thing at a time; Peregrine's 'bossyness' in regards to others is not the current subject, and falls outside the purview of our conversation in regards to our characters, as opposed to others. So right now I'm discussing interactions with you, JASON RODARTE.

Perhaps it would be easier if I just left since it appears that you want only to roleplay your character thr way you want but want to determine how I will, since it appears to me that peregrine is atrempting blameless in all of this. I mean you rolepla6ed her bossy and opinionated behavior very well.

I am not certain what word 'atrempting' is meant to indicate. However, I have not sought to make either Peregrine or myself blameless; I am simply not willing, at the moment, to perform a linguistic and literary analysis of the points of contention, to examine the context within which each takes place, the assumptions and insinuations made for each statement by all parties involved, and therefore the reasons for each response.

I will certainly state that Peregrine has talons, and that she has indeed unsheathed them more than once -- and not always against Thalasi, but Slam as well. It is primarily with Thalasi that things have gone downhill, and I agree that Peregrine is not bloodless in this.

However, I do not intend on forcing you, JASON RODARTE, to change how you view things that have already happened, nor am I willing to continue discussions while being attacked with accusations (by way of 'it appears') of trying to play others' characters for them. Nor am I willing to fight you in order to keep you in the game, particularly not against what I see as a passive-aggressive stance (the key being the use of 'Perhaps it would be easier if I just left').

Do what you think is right; my offer stands.

Oh. I see.

Please understand that your use and interpretation is non-standard, as most of the other people I've played with (including, I think, everyone else in this game) would understand the context of the conversation -- that the individual being referred to in a discussion about in-game RP was the character Thalasi and not the player JASON RODARTE -- and I want to make it absolutely clear to whom I refer at any specific point. This is why I am going to continue to post over here as the Wyrm Ouroboros, and not as Peregrine -- because doing so forces me into the mindset of being vigilantly aware of the difference, and helps me to specify.

It's my deduced conclusion that what you, JASON RODARTE, are understanding as the implied and unspecified context of much of the conversations are not what I (and possibly others) are understanding as the unspecified context and implications of a particular piece of conversation. I feel this information is particularly and especially highlighted in your complaints about statements made both in and out of character as outlined in this post.

I am leery of trying to gain explanations and mutual understanding of the conversations that have occurred in the past, in that it may not only inflame tempers again, but also frustrate one side, the other, or (most likely) both. I will state for the record that none of the examples given, in the context of the conversation in which they took place and as understood by myself and possibly others, were understood or taken in the ways that have been stated in the post linked above, particularly in light of the fact that it has also been stated by you, JASON RODARTE, that Thalasi is being played as being arrogant, which statement and roleplay has been agreed (and not only by me) to be the case; arrogance changes the attitude and implication of many things.

I am willing to modulate my actions and responses in regards to Thalasi. I will caution that this will result in Peregrine only rarely responding to him, and those responses most likely only being common courtesies. This is not something I would prefer, as I the player have been hoping to roleplay, but as the speech and actions composed by myself and placed in Peregrine's form are contentious and significantly offensive, I am willing to distance Peregrine's interactions from Thalasi. I am also willing to distance player interactions; I am disturbed by failures at contextualizing others' conciliatory actions (not my own actions), and am willing to interact at well beyond arms' length.

If this is acceptable to you, JASON RODARTE, please state such.

... I'm sorry, I have an observation, then a question. This is Peregrine's player.

First, the observation. I for one have changed to posting as The Wyrm Ouroboros -- and am continuing to do so -- specifically to ensure that I was posting as the player, that what I was saying -- especially over here in the Discussion Thread -- was being taken as conversation with the player of Thalasi, i.e.. 'JASON RODARTE'. If I erred in changing the capitalization on the name, or not using the entire name, I apologize for that.

Second, the question. Thalasi/JASON RODARTE, are you taking in-game OOC conversation/commentary, or pretty much any of the conversation in this thread where it discusses and addresses Thalasi, as being attacks on your player?

The reason I ask the latter is this: you have highlighted my (posting as Peregrine) Discussion thread observation that the 'dropped pencil' thing was probably meant for Bander as being an insult. You've also stated that ...

Oh and in the first post on this page I was called a dixk, not Thalasi, so there is an example of a personal attack.

... when we've been discussing Thalasi's actions, and not those of JASON RODARTE the player; no insult to the player was intended.

I do hope to get an answer to the qustion, for knowing how my actions are being taken by the player is critical in how I move forward.

Jason, your first spoken words for Thalasi were genius. A certain amount of egotism and pride is tolerable, presuming you can tolerate in turn Peregrine doing a little teasing and needling to puncture your ego and bring you back to Krynn.

I'm good with retconning the recent insults and challenges, and working on putting up with the stick up Thalasi's bum, but Jason, it would help if Thalasi in turn actually came down to touch the ground now and then -- perhaps recognizing that acting better-than-thou isn't in the best interest of his Order or the Towers. Be lawful good, not lawful @sshole. I like the 'Have courage' version of Thalasi.

On a side note, I would personally appreciate a pointer to where Peregrine was acting like a know-it-all; if that was the impression I gave for her, I'd like to be able to study the post, understand how I'd given that impression, and rewrite how I'm writing her. Not sure if I meant to have her as proud, but ... knowing other peoples' interpretations, if given a specific direction I'd like to be able to study it and understand how what I'm writing is received.

I don't entirely disagree on either of Vrog's points, but I definitely don't agree that the latter is possible out of the gate, or that there aren't consequences for the former. Are the technicals of the game 'unbalanced'? Yes, much like a shotgun is 'unbalanced' against a BB gun. But with Shadowrun -- as is supposed to be with most other games, but far too often isn't -- much of the game, perhaps much more than normal, is played outside of the technicals, with the expectation that "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Ten Times As Good, And With A Hundred Times More People" -- if necessary.

Oh, I know. :) And thanks.

Hm. I've only now taken a look at Arcanist, and ... I have to confess it's really very tempting. The only kicker is that, since it doesn't have Arcane Bond, there's nothing to swap out for Abaqua Spell Power, which is in my mind one of the definitive Irda abilities. (I played a Red-Robe Irda back in the day, y'see.)

Okay, here's a question -- since one of the Arcanist exploits is 'Familiar', would it be possible to make 'Abaqua Spell Power' an exploit -- or, considering we're 5th level, perhaps take up both the 1st and 3rd level exploits?

For those with Hero Lab, RavenX and TobyFox have a number of conversions available. Note that you do need to use the Dungeons and Dragons conversion in order to use the Dragonlance file.

My nose-poking-in is, in fact, in consideration of playing an Irdanaiath wanderer / wizard, perhaps a Red-Robed Wizard of High Sorcery, using the Abaqua Spell Power alternate class feature, which seems to replace the Arcane Bond class feature. Because I like to not be a total target, I'll probably also take a level in monk, unchained if it's available, which would result in Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist, Master of Many Styles) / Wizard (Abaqua) 3 ... hm. I just saw that Wizard of High Sorcery has a +4 base Will save as a prereq. If the above is still okay, I would have therefore passed the Test, but would not yet be a member of the Towers.

4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 6, 4) = 20 ==> 16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 2, 4) = 10 ==> 9
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 1, 3) = 16 ==> 15
4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 5, 1) = 15 ==> 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 1, 4) = 13 ==> 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 4, 5) = 15 ==> 14

... that's a good distribution; I can work with that. ;)

Hm. We ... might be a magic-heavy group? Hm.

Hm. Vrog, have you taken a look at the semi-official Dark Suns 3.5e conversion (link goes straight to the PDF for download)? There's an actual Gladiator class in it. My Pathfinder-fu is not good enough to say if it's doable, but I'm pretty sure that you're much better at adjuticating such. (Because I suck.)

Hmmm. The Brawler functionally gets two-weapon fighting for free at 2nd level with weapons from the Close Group or with the monk special ability; that'd give you the TWF portion. They get additional bonus combat feats which would boost your options, and their Martial Flexibility (uses of 3 + 1/2 brawler level, 1 minute/use, and multiple feats simultaneously [1 use/feat]) could enable you to 'adapt on the spot' to any particular setup you had at hand -- especially if you also had a level or two in, say, Fighter, to give you access to almost all weapons as a baseline. Then you could walk into a situation, pick up what you're given, then when you hit the sands almost visibly 'find the balance' of the weapon(s) and go to town.

Don't forget also those two free archetypes per class; that, with fighter, could hit the mark with the second class, giving you a good advantage with the two-handed fighter and shielded fighter archetypes, to complement the two-handed fighter that is the brawler ...

[Evil/defiler stuff, drakes, Arcana Evolved dragons]

Hm. Okay. For the record (per se), going off who's posted since ... February, looks like ... you have:

Jimbli Willit (CG)
Cae Leonidas (CG)
Amunet-Ra (LE?)
Hamza Mīnakshi (LE)
Rokan the Ascetic (LN)
Tyren Lourofesh (NG)

Gotak the Grim would be LG until next Mythic tier (when she can get Beyond Morality), dunno about Hanna or Vrog's character. A very diverse group!! :)

I, um ... I have to raise an issue, brought on by Lord Foul II's character wanting (and on her way to becoming) a dragon, combined with my character Gotak's raison d'être.

As I understand Dark Sun (having never played, save for a very little bit of Dark Sun-influenced ArmageddonMUD, which I more-or-less promptly left due to the wizards basically having an unannounced policy permitting invasion of privacy), the dragons are the bad guys -- the ultimate in corruption and evil, consuming the very life of the planet in order to power their magic and transformation. While I suppose ambition to become a Dragon (and by their very nature, a defiler of the highest caliber) is something that people might have ...

... I guess what I'm meaning to ask is, is this an evil campaign? Do I have my knowledge right regarding dragons, defiling-type magic, and their alignment? Is it wise for me to bring in a basically LG character whose entire purpose is to kill dragons, defilers, the remaining sorcerer-kings, and anyone who would want to seize their immensely powerful positions and magic, corrupting and draining the life from the world? If it is, is Lord Foul's draco-metamorphosis even possible without becoming (basically) CE and a reiver of life and magic of the most toxic sort? Would this be setting up inevitable PVP?

Curiosity is my bane!! What ate you trying to do, and what have you tried so far??

Yes, but remember that it's 'mythic gestalt' -- 3 levels in each of two different mythic paths. So you would be 12/12 :: 3/3, as it were.

Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

Initially, the build rules for Hamza were either: 6 gestalt class levels, 2 levels in a PrC and 2 mythic tiers or 6 gestalt class levels and 3 mythic tiers.

However, I believe during gameplay most PCs obtained some sort of template, which is why Hamza has Shadow Lord.

Since then, I'm pretty sure we leveled, or were given a level boost to 8th.

After that, Seb and I(along with a few others) worked out the unification of rules discussed over in the Numenera recruitment.

For that game, this one and the Mongol game, the PCs are now CR 12.

Dark Sun PCs need to be at least 6 gestalt levels, as that was what we started with initially.

Beyond that, you could have +6 CR in templates, 6 more gestalt classes levels/PrCs or mythic tiers(Which, I believe we capped at 4?, I can't remember and it's too late for me to go look).

I still don't see the problem with Wyrm's build, where are his numbers off?

They aren’t, per se. The current players are operating off, if I’m reading this right, Level 8 classes, Tier 2 (maybe) in Mythic, and 2-3 levels of templates — as Monkeygod put it, 6 levels, then 6 templates, out of which you bought your Mythic, +2 levels in game, and a template or two acquired in-game.

I think they’re 2-4 template-levels away from the standard you established at 6/6/3, with the 3 being Doubled Mythic, effectively +6, for a total of CR 18 — Hamza is 11/2/1 right now, because his prestige class only counts for 1, and his mythic isn’t doubled, for a total of 15. So in essence, he needs a second mythic path and another gestalt level to bring him in line with your now-standard build.

So, maybe something odd, but.

The Dark Sun bard is ... hm. Sorry, just saw that Bodhizen removed their spells entirely in exchange for the poison, which is undoubtedly straight from Dark Sun itself. I was going to ask / wonder if the alchemist or investigator could acquire the Hypertoxin and Master of Poisons abilities as discoveries or talents, but considering that those are functionally replacements for the bard's magic ... hm. I may wind up keeping what I have, but then going into bard ...

... just thoughts.

On the Class / Tier / Template front, the campaign info page mentions the classes and mythic tiers, but makes no mention of templates. I don't know -- perhaps upon reaching one point or another, the current players can be upgraded? I'm good with downgrading too, whatever works to fit in.

Rokan, thanks for the tip, though I'll confess I'd rather keep with the pseudo-amnesiac assassin with the wood implants. ;)

And, actually, I realized that the Vulnerability (electricity in the standard, sonic up above) really should be to defiler magic / the defiler effect. (Also, do not remove any resistance / invulnerability to sonics.)

Considering that high-end spellcasting could have a defiler surge of 20, and considering Gotak's Fortitude save right now is just barely out of range of that functional maximum DC of 60 (Fort save of +39), I think that would be fair. This would also affect the character even if they were targeted with a non-damaging but defiler-based spell.

Hrm. The way I understood it elsewhere was 6 gestalt levels, 3 mythic tiers, and 6 template levels, with 1 Mythic = 2 template = 2 gestalt levels. Advanced is 1 CR, Augmented is 2, Luck-Blessed is 1, and Half-Celestial is 2, for a total of 6. 2 mythic tiers, 8 gestalt class levels.

I guess you don’t / didn’t start with the mythic, so by that measurement I’m actually CR 18. Much to trim!!

So my initial thought was to have my character, Gotak the Grim (who is not all that grim) be an assassin of defilers, working with or sent out by a vengeful group of druids who want to eliminate the problems Athas has. Having read some of the Athasian Pathfinder Conversion, and operating off that initial idea, a few things came to mind.

Gotak's familiar (because yes, I love VMC Wizard) is Sha, a speckled hurrum. I plan in the next couple of mythic tiers for Gotak to acquire the mythic path ability 'Beyond Morality', and then the Improved Familiar feat, converting Sha into (again) a lyrakien azata; the musical nature of the former seemed to fit as a lyrakien's 'shell'.

Not a lot has been done with Sha so far; the ideas below are in a very rough form, and 'human' is a placeholder because so far as I know, the speckled hurrum isn't actually in Hero Lab. ;) While the druid is going to be primary, I'd like input from everyone/anyone about what /kind/ of druid she might be. I think the brawler and its archetypes are going to stick around for at least 4-5 levels, just to give her some ability to fight her way clear of a situation, but beyond that ... not sure.

Gotak and Sha, as names, are both based off games -- 'Sha' from 'Shah', or chess; Gotak from 'Go', and the Kingkiller Chronicle's what-I-guess-to-be-its-parallel 'tak'. Which is why PS: Gambler has 8 skill points in it. ;)

Hmmm. Might be interested in a 'front line' version of ... more the Infinite Fool than Num. Possibly still with the familiar; they are so useful. ;)

@Ouachitonian: I have something of the same problem. I'm getting around it (somewhat) by basically building two gestalt mythic characters.

Re: orc hornbows -- they're composite, they do greater damage, they have a range 10' longer than standard composite shortbows (80' instead of 70'). All that really has to change is weight and fluff. Seems perfect for Mongol horse-bows.

@Coinshot: I did a bit of a sum-up on Attributes and Feats here --

Feats: The standard 1 every odd level is replaced with 2 every odd level, 4 every even level, for an average of 3 per level. An additional 2 are given at 1st level (as per the Fighter bonus feats). As everyone is human, everyone will get an additional feat. 6 x 3 = 18 + 2 = 20 + 1 = 21. CDtCT rules grant additional feats -- one at first level, one at 3rd level, and one every 3 levels after that, for a total of +3 additional feats. In addition, CDtCT grants a Gift/Knack feat at 4th and every 4 levels (for 1 at the standard character level).

(...) This sums to 6 x 3 = 18 + 2 = 20 +1 = 21 + 3 = 24, plus a gift/knack feat.

Yours is correct with the exception that you missed the +2 'Fighter-like' bonus feats at L6.

Let's just take a survey -- what level does everyone want to be?

I am very good with where you have it. It allows us to be powerful without automatically needing to be in command of troops and armies; we get to be heroes, instead of having to be generals, stuck with shepherding along the 'normal' members of our forces. I don't think this means we wouldn't be able to be sons of the generals of Genghis; my character is Erkliğ, son of Jirqo'adai, of the blood of Erkliğ Han, from the Besud clan of the Taichud tribe.

Jirqo'adai is Jebe, one of the greatest generals of the Mongols and mentor of the great Subutai; Jirqo'adai was a blacksmith by trade before becoming a warrior, just as Erkliğ was a bowyer.

Having 6/6::3/3::+6 (or as it'll work for Num, 9/9::3/3::+3) makes for an amazing start -- power and strength and likely some amount of influence, but without necessarily being chained to one spot, or one group.

---------------------

Speaking of videos, catch some of The HU (it's a band); all these links are to their videos on YouTube, and they really give a great Mongol Horde vibe.

The Great Chinggis Khaan
Wolf Totem
Yuve Yuve Yu

Reading the translation really helps, particularly with the last one ...

Timeskeeper wrote:

So, something that might need to be addressed. At least for Mongolian characters like myself. The Mongolian bows was a power house in it's time. Because of the shape and culture that made it, the bows are made to be used from horse back and hit with the strength comparable if not surpassing that of the longbow. I don't believe, I maybe wrong, that Pathfinder has a weapon for this. Are we just reskinning a longbow? Or are we making another weapon all together?

I know that of which you speak -- the strength to shoot from horseback while riding was immense as well.

Would you like to design something?

Orc hornbow. Composite, 2d6, rule it otherwise as a shortbow. It does have a shorter range increment, but for us that may not matter.