I just, because I can't help myself, want to emphasize just how much less complicated the world could be with combat as a skill and the listed skill added as a trait.
I don't see any complication in current ruling ( I mean, of course strict by-the-rulebook ruling). I also don't see any benefit of changing combat to a skill, only confusion that it will cause. I also don't find that approach intuitive at all.
If you make such fundamental change after 4 years of game's initial release, you have to carefully read every single card that exist in the game and predict every game-breaking combination, or you will open can of worms. The very first "combat-is-a-skill" problem I see, is that every unarmed character should roll d4 for his combat check, as none of characters have "combat" skill and any card can boost your combat, instead of generic way of throwing blessings. Of course, you can still leave in the manual that combat check is the only check in game that does not require you to have skill that corresponds with said check and leave default strength/melee. But it just cancels benefits of proposed change.
I don't *think* that combat is a special skill because i *know* there is no such think in Pathfinder ACG such thing as combat *skill*. There is only a combat check. Don't believe me? search for a card that boost your combat skill, scan it and send me. I can assure you - there is no such card. You cannot replace combat check with divine skill because there are completely separate things and now you are just making up your own rules.
A check is a combat check if and only if it either has the combat trait or the (unreplaced) listed skill you have chosen is combat.
Not true again. A check is only a combat check when "check to defeat/check to acquire" box lists combat. They are just called combat checks, not "checks with combat trait". Is there any card with printed "combat" word on the left upper part of the card ? I doubt it.
Just like a check is an acrobatics check if and only if the check has the acrobatics trait
Not true again! Man, you really should read the rulebook carefully.
* If combat is entirely replaced by divine, then there is nothing anywhere in the rules that justifies calling the check a combat check. All reference to combat has been replaced, nowhere is there an explicit "determine whether combat or not" step described in the rules, nowhere is there a reason to associate it with the check in any way. It has already been quoted that "instead" means the original thing did not happen.
Where did you read that combat checks are replaced by non-combat divine? Can you give us exact quotation? If there is such rule that your combat check might become non-combat check? Neither Kyra's nor Varril's character powers say that.
Most certainly not! He will not pray for help to anyone other than The Eternal Rose. Varril's faith is unshakeable! Inquisitor! Burn this heretic in the name of Goddess of Love! :-P
Also, I don't think the rulebook clearly states otherwise.
I think you're right on this one. Well, I got wrong on so many rules while playing PACG over these years so I take very literally every rule I know.
Last point: there is an additional common way for a check to gain a trait. Some cards explicitly add a trait to a check (the item Amulet of Mighty Fists adds the Magic trait, for example). This isn't listed in the passage you cite, so we know that passage isn't comprehensive.
Are there any comprehensive rules for PACG? I think not. It's all mixture or different rulebooks, FAQs and message board posts. It is quite irritating.
I checked WoTR edition of rulebook I downloaded in May 2015, and here what it says:
WoTR Rulebook, p.12 wrote:
I believe it's word-by-word exactly the same wording. I don't have rulebooks from previous boxes, but I don't believe there would be any significant changes.
2) More importantly: your logic means the listed skill for a check is not added to the check as a trait. When I attempt a check whose difficulty is Wisdom, it is not a Wisdom check, unless I use my Wisdom skill. This is counter-intuitive. automatically added to the check as a trait, but most of us, including (in my understanding) the game designers, have always played that it is.
Well, intuition is a very subjective thing and I believe many PACG players share your opinion. I just haven't found anywhere in the rulebook that during a check you should add any more traits than the ones you should add according to the second paragraph I quoted in my last post.For me, for example, adding a trait that is not used is counter-intuitive. Here's an example: Varril encounters trap that requires Acrobatics as check to defeat. He chooses Divine instead. So, he closes his eyes, start chanting prayers and walks blindly into the trap and lets Shelyn to guide his feet to avoid any danger. Any form of physical fitness is omitted, so any items and spells that would boost his Acrobatics skill are useless, as the character has no control over his own body; his deity has.
I know, and I don't understand why Vic stated such ruling, when rulebook clearly states otherwise. It just added needless confusion. This ruling should be abolished. Or, rulebooks should be overwritten.
Excuse me, but I don't understand why this situation is so complicated and why we have to wait a year to get an answer that is already in the manual. Lets see...
Varril character card wrote:
When you attempt any check, you may discard (□ or recharge) a card to use your Divine skill instead of any listed skill
Ok, so Varril can use his power when he attempts a check. Here is "Attempting a check" chapter from MM rulebook:
MM Rulebook, p.11 wrote:
So, when attempting a check Varril just uses his power in "Determine Which Skill You’re Using" step and his check is now Wisdom, Divine check instead of any listed check.So, it's not Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Knowledge, Fortitude or any other check. Furthermore, if Varril uses this power to acquire weapon with listed Strength in check to acquire I wouldn't even add strength trait to this check. I quote Rulebook once again:
MM Rulebook, p.11 wrote:
The skill you’re using for the check, and any skill referenced by that skill, are added as traits to the check. For example, if your character has the skill Melee: Strength +2, and you are using your Melee skill, both the Strength and the Melee traits are added to the check. When you’re playing a card to determine the skill you’re using, that card’s traits are also added to the check; for example, revealing the weapon Heavy Pick for your combat check adds the Pick, Melee, Piercing, and Basic traits to the check. (This isn’t the same as giving you a skill; for example, playing the spell Immolate adds the Arcane trait to your check, but it does not give you the Arcane skill.) If a power adds an additional skill or die to a check, that skill or die is not added as a trait to the check. For example, a card that adds your Strength die to your combat check does not add the Strength trait to your check.
So, there is no way we should add a trait to a check if it doesn't fulfill any of above conditions.I hope game designers just use Occam's razor and go to only conclusion that is simple and consistent with rulebook itself.
We let Zetha do such combo and we have pretty big chance to finish scenario at round 1. She can move by banishing monsters, evade encounter sshe doesn't like, use monsters as armors and she doesn't need combat spells to fight. And passes almost every non-combat check with that combo. Now that is what I call game-breaker
New cards are great incentive to buy "Ultimate" decks, but some cards are a must or no-buy, like (mass/major) cure, augury and sweep spells in Ultimate Magic. And maybe haste too. These cards are superb and useful for anybody. Of course, someone might say, i you want them, buy older class decks, but why should I buy let's say Wizard Class Deck just for one Swipe.
James McKendrew wrote:
I'm playing PACG since the beginning and NOBODY uses shields, except very specific ones, like Scarab Buckler. And we are treating such armors more like items that use armor slot, than actual protective equipment. Most of the time, we even don't care if we manage to acquire magic shields, and only use we have for them are situations when somebody must banish a boon.
And who is going to use them? From about 130 characters in PACG there are only 2 of them who need mounts. Maybe such mount isn't completely bad idea, but let's wait for cavalier class deck for such allies.
So, you pick your favored card at the start of scenario? But why not at the start of entire Adventure Path, when you build your starting deck? I believe there are no rules that explain that fully. And what with "cards have no memory" rule? What if you don't play entire scenario at once, but take few day breaks?
I don't agree with this one. As Keith said:
Keith Richmond wrote:
You can't use a power that would add a trait against something immune to it.
It is not "playing a card" or "activating". It is "using" a power. So, in case of Toxic Cloud you ignore entire paragraph about adding d6 and poison. The same goes with scenario power Xexyz mentioned - it is passive scenario power that also should be ignored, if necessary. It is complementary with "Ignore the impossible" rule.
So Pitborn = Tiefling in PACG? No matter what kind of evil Outsider is related to? I thought pitborn means demonkin, because is WotR there are some monsters with pitborn and demon traits. But Ramexes' history hints he is devil-kin.
As Longshot noted, it boosts Sorcerers with their Arcane Blast abilities. This feat also works for summoners, who use their eidolons for combat checks ( arcane + melee traits). It also helps when a character is using items like Wand of Scorching Ray and similar. So, CD Ezren is more useful than you think! Is he still useless? He is.
I found some old documentation when we passed Skull&Shackles for the second time. We started as a party of four, but Seltyiel player lost interest in playing.
Character Name: Jirelle
Character Name: Feyia
Character Name: Damiel
66) Spare parts to your ship are hard to buy.Not really expensive, but really hard to buy. So hard, you must go through entire campaign to get them.
67) Your PCs share ownership with former group member who doesn't want to sell the ship just because of petty revenge on his former colleagues.
68) Every other owner of this ship died some horrible death, and people believe it is cursed.
Our group of five meet once or twice per month. It takes us 9-10 hours to beat on average 4 scenarios, including dinner break (about 20 minutes). All are experienced players. During setup, Players do the same work every time. I read the Guide, second player reads Scenario rules and builds locations, third guy searches for henchmen and villains and fourth prepares blessing deck. We noticed that Mummy's Mask takes longer because of traders which adds about 15 minutes of additional time after scenario.
When we played first Runelords box set, we actually were missing more in-depth knowledge what we were doing and why. We tried to recreate the story without knowing original RPG scenarios. I remember that after defeating Skinsaw Man we thought he skinned poor Aldern and used that skin as disguise :-P . But in our defense we are not native English speakers and reading big blocks of text and translating it on the fly for players who do not know English well is quite tiresome. I think it's good how it is now. Short text on the back of the card is enough for the ones who just want to play, and printable guide for the ones who want to know the story. Eventually let Paizo themselves make such official guide and put it as free downloadable resource like character sheets.
But I got another proposition for game creators: Is it possible to make Card Guild scenarios with all the needed cards as one box? We don't have any guild plays in Poland, and I play with the same group of people so there is no need for such gaming convention style of play for us. I know we can buy scenarios and print proxies, or order cards from 3rd party, but I'm a bit lazy :-P and I want a nice box on the shelf.
And the last thing, in fact question: There will be some new iconics in Ultimate [noun] Decks. But how many? Only one per deck? Are there will be new versions of not-officially-iconics but somewhat-iconic PACG characters like Amhotep or Zarlova?
Our group added boons from Wizard, Oracle, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric and Summoner Class Decks. No deaths (thanks to Grazzle powerful healing abilities) and I don't recall we failed any scenarios.
5 players, 5 characters
Character Name: Grazzle
Character Name: Drelm
Character Name: Ahmotep
Character Name: Simoun
Character Name: Zetha
But Grazzle discards cards from his deck, not from his hand.
I got other question about Arueshalae's Gift. When playing Arueshalae in other Adventure Path can I still use kiss? I mean, to use it you must have a token, but token mechanism is used only in WoTR. Can I use tokens in other APS? I know the rule "it's your game, have fun" but still I want ask about this in case of integrity with future rules.
When there is Tooth & Hookah location in scenario, when exactly I'm allowed to shuffle allies into this location?
1) When T&H is occupied and someone in other location fails to acquire ally?
I believe it works like Family Tomb in WoTR but I need confirmation
Good afternoon, my good Sir,
1.My question is when do i actually take it? Is it immediate and i have to discard right away? Or do i do it at the end of my encounter?
Reveal blessing, take damage, then proceed with your encounter.
2. What do you mean? Did you encountered Ancient Skeleton henchman in your location deck, and then looked at "when closing" requirements? If so, there is "summon and encounter" phrase. Summon means you create a virtual copy of the card and unless you are SPECIFICALLY instructed otherwise, after your encounter summoned card goes right back to the box. And you only can close location when you meet requirements of "when closing" text block. Otherwise, location remains open.
3. You can use cards only one card of each type per step. But "Attempt a check" step says:
Mummy's Mask Rulebook wrote:
After you attempt the check, deal with any effects that were triggered by the check. If any cards played while attempting a check include their own checks, resolve the current check in this step and the new checks in subsequent steps.
So, IF you didn't play armor earlier (there are some armors that help you with passing the checks), AND you were dealt damage, then you may play armor to prevent damage.
My two questions for this is if i dont have the trait do i still get to roll a 1d4 + 2d6 for the check?
Or do i follow the immediate text after and completely banish it because i dont have the trait?
No, you may use it once, then banish.
Ad.5. It goes the same path as point 3. You may play spells that prevent you from damage ONLY if you haven't played spell earlier in this check step.
6. Read manual carefully. "Attempt a check" consists of playing cards for the check, assembling dice, rolling the dice, all the modifiers after the roll, taking damage after failed roll, and all consequences that card(s) tell you to do after failed/successful check.
7. Yes. You roll d4 +d10 from your ally.
8. Once per step, unless stated otherwise.
Barbarians are best at large groups of players. When playing in 5-player game you only have 6 turns, so you can use bury power almost every fight. And by doing that you manage to keep blessings for other checks and explorations and with large group time runs short very quickly. When you combine it with barbarians' move powers (most of them have such power) it all helps large party in covering locations. When you start to running low on your deck, you can go to some locations with many armors and weapons to get some fuel.
But with small party barbarian bury power is a bit suicidal. Rather use only weapon discard powers to get more combat power and wait for healing.
Our party consists of Amhotep, Drelm, Grazzle (lizard oracle from CD), Zetha the summoner(me), and Mavaro. So far, we're still at B scenario.
Amhotep is our main damage dealer. All but one of her spells have attack trait and with her weapons and abilities she has more than enough ways to hurt people, both living and undead.
Drelm is a backup combatant, but with high Wisdom, Disable and bonuses is also a barrier bashing machine. And secondary healer. The only problem is he rarely do more than one exploration per turn.
Grazzle is our main healer (and the most powerful healer of all available characters, so far). Having craft and survival and loaded with divine attack spells he can handle banes quite well. He and Drelm usually go together making "green team" with Drelm healing the lizard and lizard healing everybody else.
Zetha is our spec-ops specialist. Usually I go to locations that are hardest to close - those which deal damage, forces to bury/banish a card or have some weird closing checks. Also having two scouting spells I handle with trigger cards. And with almost all of checks being a Stealth ones I build deck that almost every card give me bonuses to the check.
Oh, and the is Mavaro. He kinda hangs out. Really, I don't understand why are all excited about him. He is mediocre at everything except picking up boons - so he sits in Caravanserai entire adventure. Maybe it's the player fault - he tried to make Mavaro a barrier basher, then alchemist, and then ranged combatant - all with mixed results. Generally, he never had the right cards to display when it was the most needed.
On Drelm's downloadable character sheet there is a power feat:
Drelm's power feat wrote:
 When you would discard a blessing that has the Abadar ( or Wadjet) trait to add dice to a check, you may recharge it instead.
Exactly The same power is on Vaultkeeper role.But on Keymaster role there is a bit different wording:
Drelm Keymaster power feat wrote:
 When you would discard a blessing that has the Abadar ( or Wadjet) trait to add 1 or more dice to a check ( or to explore your location), you may recharge it instead( and add 1 additional die).
Does it means that Drelm can recharge Abadar's blessings only when he adds more than one die? Or is it just a misprint? I don't have Mummy's Mask box yet and I can't compare it with original cards.
Maybe I'm just over analyzing things, but I'm not native English speaker and amount of rules in PACG is a bit overwhelming and I always had problems with this die/dice thing.
I believe, if you examine two or more cards, you must examine it one at a time, not all at once. And Trigger trait forces you to do something: so Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else - finish all "when examined" part, then examine next card, and so on. And you must complete all chain of events started by examining cards, before you may play spells like Cure.
So I played wrong that part :-P But I believe there are some character powers/ cards that let you reduce difficulty before apply evasion step. I just don't remember which ones. That black spot+web combo is still a longshot, because you need someone else to play black spot, as you can't play 2 spells by yourself. And black spot has some ambiguity in whether I can play it on someone else: "discard this card to decrease the difficulty to defeat a monster by 1 plus adventure deck number of current scenario". So it might go both ways.
The only practical difference between adding X to check and reducing difficulty by X comes when you would play a spell that lets you evade monster of difficulty no greater that Y. So, another player may play Black spot to reduce difficulty, so you might play a spell like Web, or Sleep.
As Frencois noted, if you are instructed to do two or more things at the same time, choose order. So, you may start at Abyssal Rift, move and flip up location, explore and move back using Donahan, and flip Rift back to "closed" postion. In fact, I believe Alain was designed to work that way by the game creators
These are my tips and ideas, after finishing WotR:
1) Get as wide array of secondary skills as possible. The most crucial ( from the most important): Divine/Knowledge/Arcane/Survival/Diplomacy. If able, add Ranged, Acrobatics and Fortitude. Pick as many Divine characters as possible - at least half of your party should have it. Of of 6 players in my party, four had it and it so helpful.
2) This is combat-oriented adventure path. Pick capable fighters. Most barriers just do nothing, or are helpful, or just spam monsters at you.
3) Alain seems a bit useless to me. As Iceman noted, Adowyn is probably the best character in this set, but Kyra, Seelah, Shardra are also excellent choices and your party should consider these characters first. Balazar is also great , but has some unique and difficult mechanics, so don't give it to your 9-year-old son, if you have any ;-). But there are a lot of interesting boons for Alain - powerful mounts, polearm weapons, even armors. You might consider buying Paladin Class Deck and play Raz, who is kind of paladin/cavalier combo and is much better (and cuter ) character to play.
Other than that, there is still rule "Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else" in power. So when you defeat a monster you must finish everything you are required to do plus as much as you like what you are permitted to do, before you start next thing (new encounter, closing location, ending turn.) All character powers are non-mandatory, so if Salim woundn't heal himself before his next move, the opportunity is lost, and you cannot "bank" your heals.