The chart of overall BAB progression for animal companions doesn't make them look great: better than wizards but worse than 3/4, let alone full BAB. Is there any way to put them on a faster track?
J
There's animal companion-like things (drakes, eidolons, phantoms) with better BAB, and there's ways to get your animal companion a level or two ahead of you on the chart (not boon companion) but no way to actually make your animal companion full BAB, no.
Its probably almost never worth it, but if the companion was able to wield an occultists trappings of the warrior implements they could maybe get the BAB boost.
I'm looking at the feat Monstrous Companion from Cohorts and Companions. It seems like it has some cool possibilities but I'm not sure I understand how it works.
I like the idea of a Sleipnir companion. Let's say primarily my goal is to ride him, using archery or charging enemies with a lance (a dragon horse would also work). I take a compatible class (perhaps a Nature Fang Druid or a Hunter), I can take the Monstrous Companion feat at 7th level, and at that point would my new companion replace the animal companion I've had previously?
Also, I'm very confused as to how to calculate what its abilities would be. On the chart it says if my level was 7 my cohort's level would be 4, but then on another table for bestial cohorts it gives completely different effective cohort levels. Looking at Appendix 6 for the relevant Bestiary would that mean at level 7 if I took a Dragon Horse or a Sleipnir it would be at level 16? Seems overpowered.
J
Monstrous companion is a nerfed version of leadership. You are limited to an effective cohort level as given in that chart; for a level 7 character that means level 4 maximum. A sleipnir is going to be at least effective cohort level 14, possibly higher and you'd need to be well above 20th to get it via this feat.
e.g. at 20th level you could have a companion with an effective cohort level of 12. If you took a hippogriff (effective cohort level 6) you could add 6 levels to it, or if you took a hieracosphinx (effective cohort level 11) you could add 1 level to it. If you wanted a gynosphinx (effective cohort level 14) you couldn't have one yet.
Feed them some Blood of Baphomet. One of the side effects from getting the Man-Eating template is that the animal's BAB is equal to its hit dice.
(Now you just need to deal with having a CE animal companion. Good luck not having it eat you.)
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Feed them some Blood of Baphomet. One of the side effects from getting the Man-Eating template is that the animal's BAB is equal to its hit dice.
(Now you just need to deal with having a CE animal companion. Good luck not having it eat you.)
Type: A man-eating animal’s type changes to magical beast.
As soon as it becomes a magical beast it stops being an animal companion.
Barring specific archetypes and classes explicitly granting other stuff, your animal companions stat are those that are published in the books.
So, is there something that backs up Diego's claim?
I know there are feats and archetypes that allow you to have a magical beast as an animal companion (eg. monstrous mount).
If your character is evil, then using the blood on your animal companion makes a lot of sense to me. The biggest drawback to this would be that it can't be targeted with spells that don't work on magical beasts.
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So, is there something that backs up Diego's claim?
An animal companion’s abilities are determined by
the druid’s level and its animal racial traits.
What are the animal racial traits of a magical beast?
So you magical beast AC (barring class and archetypes specific exceptions) has no AC, size, attacks, speed ..... useful.
So, is there something that backs up Diego's claim?An animal companion’s abilities are determined by
the druid’s level and its animal racial traits.What are the animal racial traits of a magical beast?
So you magical beast AC (barring class and archetypes specific exceptions) has no AC, size, attacks, speed ..... useful.
By that same logic, an animal companion ceases to be an animal companion once you give it +1 INT at level 4, since no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal according to the Bestiary.
Yet, somehow the CRB also contains provisions that an animal companion with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using, or put skill points in any skill they want, without language claiming that it ceases to be an animal companion. The fact that there is a feat that also transforms your animal companion into a magical beast makes it seem pretty clear to me that there is plenty of leeway in the rules for this exact scenario.
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So, is there something that backs up Diego's claim?An animal companion’s abilities are determined by
the druid’s level and its animal racial traits.What are the animal racial traits of a magical beast?
So you magical beast AC (barring class and archetypes specific exceptions) has no AC, size, attacks, speed ..... useful.By that same logic, an animal companion ceases to be an animal companion once you give it +1 INT at level 4, since no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal according to the Bestiary.
Yet, somehow the CRB also contains provisions that an animal companion with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using, or put skill points in any skill they want, without language claiming that it ceases to be an animal companion. The fact that there is a feat that also transforms your animal companion into a magical beast makes it seem pretty clear to me that there is plenty of leeway in the rules for this exact scenario.
You are inverting the order.
The template says explicity that the creature became a magical beast.
Increasing a characteristic doesn't automatically change a creature type.
So it is not "changing the intelligence to something that is not normally possible for an animal change it to another type", but is "changing it to another type change its type".
Note that while the monster guidelines talk about a maximum Int for an animal, this only applies to the creation process. Giving an animal a higher Intelligence score does not somehow transform it into a magical beast, unless the effect says otherwise, such as in the case of awaken. Animals can grow to have an Int higher than 2 through a variety of means, but they should not, as a general rule, be created that way.
The feat is a specific, explicit exception. Not a general rule.
Monstrous companion is a nerfed version of leadership. You are limited to an effective cohort level as given in that chart; for a level 7 character that means level 4 maximum. A sleipnir is going to be at least effective cohort level 14, possibly higher and you'd need to be well above 20th to get it via this feat.
e.g. at 20th level you could have a companion with an effective cohort level of 12. If you took a hippogriff (effective cohort level 6) you could add 6 levels to it, or if you took a hieracosphinx (effective cohort level 11) you could add 1 level to it. If you wanted a gynosphinx (effective cohort level 14) you couldn't have one yet.
That's what I was afraid of. I'm just disgusted at Paizo now. Just disgusted. I could go off on a rant about the idiocy of including things as options that we can't ever have, but I'll restrain myself.
I guess I'm ok with an animal companion having a slow BAB, there are ways to make up for it. If I take an ankylosaur, for example, I'd want to increase its ability to hit with its tail, and when it did for its daze/stun ability to be as hard to save against as possible.
Even better, I could the weigh the pros and cons of having a flying mount, such as a Roc. With Monstrous Mount or Leadership (for GM's that allow Leadership) I could switch to a Giant Eagle at level 9, depending on which is more favorable at that point. I think I like the idea of a flying mount pretty well! Not sure if Roc or Giant Eagle would be better for me down the road.
The rules forum is not a good starting point if your goal is to minmax an Animal Companion build.
If you want ideas, check the various "guides" available on the internet. And then come back to ask if your build is valid. But whatever the boards' decision, your GM is the final arbiter, so better check with them, or do it together.
That said... if you go the Monstrous Cohort Animal Companion route, note that the maximum cohort level, from Leadership, depends on your Leadership score, which uses Charisma. And with this, a few magic items, a couple feats, and/or prestige class dips, you can have its maximum level equal to yours.
The other ideas to improve its attack bonus is for your animal to gain levels. Those feats like Boon Companion can mitigate the class dips you will take, and other feats too, in order to have your effective druid level higher than your HD (take that quickly, before it's banned - j/k).
And if fighting is your only need, take the companion archetype, too, of course (and search those sites listing class archetypes for yourself, because some are awesome). Or go berzerk and take the Aberrant animal companion class: the Summoner (or its variants).
Final note: unless I'm mistaken (which happens occasionally, I'm sure), all creatures have 1, 3/4, or 1/2 BAB progression. The Animal Companion (which has 3/4 like all animals) just doesn't level as the same time as you (and starts higher, too).
Even better, I could the weigh the pros and cons of having a flying mount, such as a Roc. With Monstrous Mount or Leadership (for GM's that allow Leadership) I could switch to a Giant Eagle at level 9, depending on which is more favorable at that point. I think I like the idea of a flying mount pretty well! Not sure if Roc or Giant Eagle would be better for me down the road.
I personally prefer the giant dragonfly when it comes to flying animal companions. It has a Fly speed of 80, perfect maneuverability, a 2d6 bite attack, and gets flyby attack for free. Sadly you'll either need to be small or have the feat undersized mount to ride it. Also, unless it's normally an option you have to take the feat curious companion.
otherwise the roc is a solid choice. The problem with flying creatures with multiple attacks is that by raw they either need a high bonus to the fly skill (need to pass a DC 15 check on a 1) or they have to pick up the feat hover (which is practically mandatory for dragons). Otherwise they can't fly and make a full attack against an enemy.
LordKailas, I hadn't thought about that, I'll compare that to the Roc and see what I think. In fact my plan is to ride a flying mount and have a lance, as a Nature Fang. I'll have a bow too, but the idea of a lance, as a full spell-caster seems cool, Prometeus has a nice Mounted Fury build in his guide. Since I'd be a druid I wouldn't even need to take Curious Companion, since in UM it says a druid can flat-out just select him. Thanks for the idea.
Skrayper, yeah, big cats are beastly (heh). I'm just finishing up the Kingmaker AP as a Sanctified Slayer with a velociraptor and he was plenty tough, though I mostly used him as a bodyguard since I was an archer. My plan is to have a flying mount since I haven't done that before. Haven't thought about the archetype yet.
J
If you're going to be riding your companion, you'll want the Pack Flanking feat. It's a teamwork feat so the companion will need it too, but it lets you be considered flanking as long you as both are threatening an opponent that can be flanked.
Pack flanking only really works for a hunter, who can share their teamwork feats sans prerequisites. Few animal companions can get combat expertise.
There is a lot to say for the Hunter class, for all of the 3/4 BAB 6th level casters really.
Hm. One reason I chose Nature Fang is he gets Slayer abilities such as studied target, which get him closer to being full BAB. With slayer talents and sneak attack as well, it's pretty cool. However, add Pack Flanking to the mix and I could potentially get the bonus from studied target and flanking, then do sneak attack damage every attack as well.
I just can't think of a way to do it, unless it's being a half-elf and dipping two levels in Hunter.
J
You can do some solid and reliable damage with useful utility as a hunter 3 / rogue X as Heather has posted before, but the tricks that make it work aren't viable for a druid with a lance on a dragonfly. You can't easily threaten enemies with lance and mount simultaneously, which is another obstacle to the pack flanking trick.
But as a full caster you have other tricks. Prebuffing with ashen path then dropping mists on the battlefield is viable from L3 for example, or just hulking out with buffs, or summoning creatures for flanking purposes, or debuffing one way or another...a full prepared spellcaster has many options.