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I got a couple of questions:

--Is there a list listing the currently "legal" gods/demigods whatever in Cheliax?

--Is heresy against "legal" "gods", but gods who are not part of the infernal hierarchy punished in Cheliax? Meaning, I obviously get into problems with the government. But what if I vandalize a temple of father skinsaw with tasteful depictions of another assassination focused entity that is objectively much nicer to look at?

--Is there a list of what industries Kintargo has? My planned character is pretty much highly profit oriented, and would be planning to gain money by selling the Chelish military things that are expensive but which they dont actually need.


as a player who has now been mostly through it, I have to confess I have concerns about the encounter design.

We went in with a party of Antipaladin/Oracle, Skald/Swashbuckler, Witch, Cleric. Fairly optimized, but not having much in ranged combat.

Losoni either needs a plot based nerf, or plot based reasons to act stupidly.
If played intelligently, he will simply wreck any level 3 party, on his own, with limited counterplay.

There are several reasons for this:

--DC16 entangle at will is a massive area of effect
--If identified, players will assume him to be a ranged combatant, and their melees will advance
--At which points he move action teleports to the probably entangled backline and simply starts killing them, as the frontline struggles to get back into the fight with him.
--Something cathes him? Clonal tree stride out.
--Something fights him? Hah, dodging panache is rather hard to hit at level 3 while you are most likely entangled.
--There is also no indication whatsorever, prior to arriving, that there will be a super dryad, so its not like you would prep much for it.

--Essentially, if a player would play Losoni, and the DM would play the party, it would be TPK time 9 times out of 10.

Remove his advanced template
Reduce his swashbuckler levels to 1, so he doesnt have charmed life.
Have a buildup, for example, have there be reports that a soldiers of the archbaron sent first got rekt by it. If the party shows up with a lot of fire, and some cold iron weapons, they may have a chance.

The third one is probably the better one, but seriously, that thing is a strong CR6, a CR7 easily if played to the max.

His one failure state is breaking or stealing his weapon. The most common way to do that, grease, barely works due to his save + charmed live, and very few builds have sunder or disarm available at level 3.


So, party encounters a Succubus, which suggestions are reasonable or even very reasonable?


Flee to the Iomedae temple 20 miles away and find help there! They have a Paladin immune to compulsions! Is probably a reasonable suggestion, not harmful (apart from leaving your friends on their own), and seems to be a rather powerful thing to do.

The fiendish vixen cant dodge all the time if you manfully grapple her! Probably not reasonable, harmfull if the character knows what a Succubus does? Definitly generates laughs at the table though.

The Succubus controls your horny bard friend! Disarm and restrain him quickly!
Perhaps harmful, perhaps reasonable?

You are outmatched, surrender for now and bide your time!
Harmful, because you are surrendering? Perhaps reasonable?

Paint a picture of this combat, reprint it in a printing press and get rich selling copies!
Not harmful, debatable reasonableness?


I have run a fairly interesting optional encounter in act 1.

Essentially, the Nyserian manor still stands, and as the players approach they hear clear and loud feminine cursing in Abyssal.

Informing someone else in the room that
"You dare summon a blade of midnight? And offer her a demon pox ridden boy as a sacrifice? Do you bug-buggering goat-groomers even properly understand the gravity of your insult?"

Then something in the rooms drops and the same voice says:
"Oh, how hilarious, you didnt properly secure your sacrfice, and now it kicked over a candle! Boy, I grant thee partial credit for 9" Stabbing sound "I mean 8 annoying bug-buggering-goat-grooming cultists"

The party bursts in, and has a chaotic fight between cultists of Baphomet and Deskari, a priest of Deskari and a Succubus swashbuckler. There is also a tied up boy that needs rescueing.

It led to some pretty interesting roleplay, especially because the party, level 3 at that time, failed to in character recognice the Succubus (who had her wings bat wings outstreched, horns visible and shouting "midnight eternal has come for you" as a battlecry) as a Succubus. The parties Paladin thought she was a very skilled thiefling, and also didnt recognice the religious nocticulan heraldry she was wearing. The Succubus rolled a nat one on her sense motive, and actually believe the Paladin was making a really elaborate plausible deniability ploy "because Paladins are weird", which she actually approved of.

The demoness was rather amused at the whole thing, answered some questions not entirely wrongly,
and setup a bunch of plot threads for acts 2,3 and 4. Before teleporting out and informing the players who seemed receptive to her that praying to "Lady Nocticula, breaker of restraint(s)" is one way to get out of a prison.


I have a question if this would work (this is a game with well, a lot more feats per level, and also Elephant in the room feat tax rules).

Bob, whose favorite X-Men Villain is obviously the juggernaught, the Bloodrager/Siege Breaker 2 has whirlwind attack. Because just tripping everyone is boring, he takes some extra feats (the GM gets to put extra feats on monsters in return).

He uses smashing style to sunder the armor of 4 mooks using one whirlwind attack. Because he has smashing style, each succesfull Sunder of a suit of armor also becomes a bull rush or trip maneuver.

Bob still thinks tripping is boring, therefore,
Bob uses this to bullrush the 4 mooks he attacked with whirlwind attack. This may or may not including punting the mooks into different mooks, dangerous terrain or party members. It also involves Bob bodying everonye he bullrushes for his STR + 2 + his armor enchancement mod for extra damage, because siegebreaker.

Since Bob dipped 2 in siege breaker, whenever he bullrushes he gets an overrun attempt as a free action.
He bodies everyone he overruns again. And then seeks to "trip them rightly" with a greater overrun.

Bob now remember that he has combat style master, and the entire Bullette charge style tree, switches, just as the overruns are happening, to bullette style and bodies people a bit harder.

Other then the question of where the hell you get all of these feats from, the question I have is this:

If I, starting from a whirlwind attack, use Combat style master to switch between Smashing style and Bullette style, how often would I actually be switching?

Is it: "Mooks A,B,C,D get sundered, Mooks A,B,C,D get bullrushed, Bob free action switches styles, Mooks A,B,C,D get overrun, Mooks A,B,C,D get buletted, Mooks A,B,C,D get AoOed"
Or is it "Mook A gets sundered, Mook A gets bullrushed, Bob Free action switches to Bullette style, Mook A gets overrun, Mook A gets buletted, Mook A gets AoOds, Bob free action switches back to smashing style, Mook B gets sundered etc."


what happens if an evil outsider takes a class level in vigilante?

--Is his vigilante form, assuming he takes one that is not evil, actually immune to detect evil and smite evil?

--Does not being evil mess with the outsiders abilities?

--Did Nocticula secretly achieve redemption by having 20 levels in vigilante and running the redeemer queen as her alter ego?

F Resources: HP220/220 Mythic power12/13 Spell slots 1:6/7 2:6/7 3:6/7 4:4/5 5: 4/4 ACs:47/41 Touch 37/31 FF 19 Saves:Fort 19 Ref 31/25 Will21 CMD:53 active effects: My. Heroism, Tears to wine, Glibness, Freedom of movement, insp. rage

Placeholder for discussion.

F Resources: HP220/220 Mythic power12/13 Spell slots 1:6/7 2:6/7 3:6/7 4:4/5 5: 4/4 ACs:47/41 Touch 37/31 FF 19 Saves:Fort 19 Ref 31/25 Will21 CMD:53 active effects: My. Heroism, Tears to wine, Glibness, Freedom of movement, insp. rage

You spot a group of mutated freaks, carrying a supply cart, following a cleric of Baphomet. They are unaware of your presence.

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Hello there,

the crusaders with their rigid marching orders, dogmatic adherence have indeed held the Demonic invasion away, at the cost of most of their Kellid allies.

Here is where you come in:

--You will be a party of 5 characters.
--Whoever is closest to lawful good will be the Galfreys pointman
--You will, after coming to the Queen of Mendevs attention during the first book, act as the Crusades major black ops team. Taking out threats, engaging in plausibly deniable (or deniably plausible) activities and doing other things the Crusade does not publically want to be seen as doing.
--Surprisingly enough, this part will result in rather limited amounts of difference compared to the normal module, only that you dont do much mass combat, or are particularly focused on redeeming characters (some NPCs may be trying to redeem you, some of your less them seemly contacts will have interests in opposition to that)

Basic Build rules:
--You start at level 3, during the initial demonic strike, you have banded together, performed hit and run tactics against Demon and Cultist forces, and have now heard that a position of resistance exists in the Defender heart. The promise of supplies, support and numbers being quite a lure to you. On the way towards it, you managed to get the drop on a group of mutants led by a Cultist of Baphomet named Hosila, who had some pretty interesting information on her. Information that will probably ease your way into the Crusaders holdouts, and that arguably neccessiates you doing something about the Demon occupation of the grey Garrison.
--25 point buy,
--newest Elephant in the Room version is on
--Background skills yes
--First person Paizo only
--Milestone leveling
--Wealth per level for level 3.
--HP is max at level 1. Then roll, take half if you rolled lower then half.
--All Paizo classes are allowed
--I am open to making prestige classes that would be thematic less bad.
--Pragmatic villainy is allowed, but no worshipping of Deskari or Baphomet.

Mythic mutual disarmenent convention, as too high numbers bring in the outer gods:
All of these apply for both player characters and adversaries
--Mythic vital strike is banned
--Mythic improved initiative is banned, display of dexterity or display of charisma for a noble scion build does not apply to initiative.
--Foe biter is banned
--Mythic tier 3 characters (including the heroes) get the following mythic ability for free
Mythic resilience:
As an immidiate action, when reduced to less then zero hitpoints by an attack or spell, expend a number of mythic points. You heal back, with your HP being the number of invested mythic points *10 in percent, so someomone investing 5 mythic points is back with 50% HP, someone investing 10 mythic points is back to full. Note, you only have one immidiate action per round. You can take this even if flatfooted, paralyzed, stunned etc.
--No single damage instance can do more then 400 damage.

The aim of this is to make things less rocket taggy, and hopefully make it so that everyone gets at least a turn.
--The "Beyond morality" universal mythic power is selectable at tier 1. I would expect evil characters to take it. Note, the number of NPCs with this ability will be considerably greater as well.
This is both to make evil player characters not ping as evil during most of act 2, and because its a fun ability.


we just finished our assault on the ivory sanctum.
Here are some thoughts and observations:

--Party composition fluctuated wildly, my character was the only one constantly in the party.
Currently we are a Human Skald ex-catfolk now orc oracle, dwarfen 2 handed fighter and elfish magus.

--Due to the fact that Ivory sanctum apparently has 800K in loot as written, we are about to get very very powerful having fully looted it.
For my character (Beerfiend), after taking it, he has 5 more AC, and his weapon got upgraded 3 times to an effective +9, he also picked up mythic arcane strike, meaning it will essentially be a +10 or +11 weapon. His AC is still mediocre, but mirror dodge is a pretty good defensive ability. I believe I am roughly 2-3X over wealth level (taking into account that via upgradable, my incredibly potent weapon costs half of what it should), which is somewhat concerning.

--My gut feeling says that I am going to get a lot more mileage out of mythic bane in act 4.

--Narrative changes:
----The GM has Nocticula play a relatively active role, via one of her envoys, relatively early. The party has come to a reasonable accomodation with her (the party thinks that at least), having performed some minor services, and having specifically clowned on some particular demons. We are currently having a smuggling route, the mythic booze my character can make in return for freeing Mendevian and Kellid prisoners from the slave markets. Mechanically, its a good reason for my char to conserve mythic power, because it is needed to make mythic booze (pretty much a luxury item in Alyushinyrra, we came up with a pretty cool PR campaign).
----Was pretty cool overall, my character (Skald) tried to do a "false flag attack" on Baphomet cultist in Act 1, pretending to be a Cultist of Nocticula. Nocticula was midly amused (at least thats what my character thinks), and assassinated him, a Skald 6 Trickster 1 mythic character using a quasit with a wand of summon monster 1. (Skald got CDGed by a dire rat in his sleep). He was raised but got the message about not implicating Nocticula in his plots.

----Hardest fights: Act 1: The fight with the mongrels was pretty touch and go. The big Mino was also a beefy dude. Act 2: Soltengrebbe. Kiandrah was hard to hit, but was on her own and just buggered off. Vevascor was doable because we scouted and made swarmbane clasps. Act 3: Jerribeth actually made me run out of mythic power, effing mirror images, she had some really beefy bodyguards. Xanthir Vang go buffed, and went own very slowly, dealing considerable damage. He had some funny tricks and a bunch of meathshields.

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Hi, this is in character for my Spell warrior/Fractured mind who just entered the Dreamlands.
Session 02.12.2022.

"This is the journal of Viktor Skuggason, Spellwarrior of Sarkoris, Fractured mind, on a cursed quest. At least this is who I believe to be. My comrades are Almeja the Shaman, Silas the inquisitor, and Ardren Occultist. Obviously also Viktoria my phantom. May those who find this journal benefit from it. I must not write the cursed name."

"The strange ritual worked, we venture into the dreamlands to follow the tracks of the vile Count Lowls. We have arrived in a desert, close to our first destination. A caravansery. And I am not fool enough to deem it abandoned. Almost immidiatly, we found a potent weapon. A scimitar infused with Vorpal powers. My Phantom is giddy with exitement, flies around and makes jokes about me being a "Budget-Balor". I do not know why she even knows what a Balor is, but her being linked with my subconciousness probably explain this. My thoughts are heavy, if such weaponry is simply abandoned, what does this tell of the resources available to our adversaries in this strange place?"

"We fought our first foe, a cursed echo of a thief pretending to be a shopkeeper, it chose to attack us, focusing on our shaman and afflicting him with its curse, it was hard to hit for my phantom, whose flurry of infused attacks did not manage to hit it, alas our Inquistor Silas struck a mightly blow with his greatsword, praise be the Lord in Iron, and it then wasted its turn trying to pull us into deep slumber, even though we protected by the spell our Almeja, our Shaman put. We were narrowly able to end it with our united forces before it could touch one of us again."

Well, I did make a bounty hunter NPC for a game, and decided to play around a bit with this archetype.

Note, this was under a feat tax rule that essentially made combat exerptize and weapon finesse free.

To fully work, it needs the following feats:
--Combat exerptize
--Dirty trick improved
--Dirty trick greater (6 BAB)
--Quick dirty trick (req 6 BAB)
--Dirty trick master (req 11 BAB)
what does it do?
--Start with appying a dirty trick blinded on your first attack via quick dirty trick.
--Enemy is now blinded and thus flatfooted to your other attacks. Forgo sneak attack damage, apply your number of iteratives as extra dirty tricks. At level 11 you will have 2 more, you can have more then those by some relatively inexpensive secondary naturals, which can apply additional dirty tricks.
Aim to inflict either entangled into pinned or dazzled into dazed with your subsequent dirty tricks. Sickened into nauseated is also a consideration.

--You can also do this ranged, although the range is a bit shorter.

--Relatively few enemies are immune to your entire dirty trick kit
--You can consider a single level dip into white haired witch, for an extra secondary natural attack with grab and you dont get grappled, and thus inflict even more stati.
--You can be mostly STR based, as you are still a slayer, allowing you to pick twf and improved twf at levels 4 and 8 (without caring about dex reqs) which your CMB is going to like a lot.
--At level 12, your CMB bonus is 12 (CMB) + 4 (sneak attack dice via sneak to Dirty trick conversion) + 4(improved and greater dirty trick) + your weapon enchancement bonus (since you are using your weapons to do dirty tricks, 3-4ish) + STR mod (7ish) +30ish before temporary modifiers from you party like heroism or enlarge person. A relatively appropriate CR13 Glabrezu has a CMD of 34, a harder target for CMB, like a Crimson worm, has a still hittable CMD of 45.



I have a question about the following spell:
Reckless infatuation

Lets say I am fighting a Demon (somewhere in the worldwound), and manage to have tha spell land.
Can I designate Nocticula as the target of the creatures desire, forcing the demon to use its typically greater teleport at will ability to teleport to the worldwound proper, walk through it, teleport to the Midnight isles, and then try for Caster level days to get within 30 feet of Nocticula?

The wording implies that the target of desire has to be within 30 feet of the target of the spell, but the limitation on "target of desire" is just "has to be known by the target of the spell".

Also, what does "known" mean in that? Most demons would know Nocticula, but only a few would have exchanged words with her.

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what are the most funny clearly wrong but hilarious rulings you made as a GM?

I got a Barbarian player (Orcish), and there was a situation where he didnt have a ranged weapon left, so he grabbed a random Porcupine and threw it at a BBEG Wizard. He initially missed because of improvised weapon proficiency (lack thereoff actually), and then came up with the hilarious RAW claim that "Porcupine" has the word "Orc" in it, and is therefor treated as a martial weapon for him.
He is now plotting for how to slap people with an Orca.

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lets have a funnier version of alignment threads!

There are dozens upon dozens of "Is it a jerk move to have the Paladin fall from this" threads, but how about the opposite?

I wish to present 3 hypothetical scenarios in which 3 Antipaladins may or may not fall. The scenarios are all hypothetical so noone got actually deprived of their powers!

Scenario 1: Right down its mouth!

The party finds out that the massive death on the eastern front is opening a portal to the Abyss, and not just to the Abyss, to the Qlippoth regions! And effing Cyth-Suggs mouth is already sticking out! On a railway line no less!
Alas, Leah "Lady Stab-Stab" var Emrys Antipaladin/Bloodrager of Nocticula, hijacks a Russian armored train, conveniently filled with more explosives and cold Iron munitions then the party can count, and starts to pilots it, guns blazing, right into the Qlippoth Lords mouth, frantically trying to commune with her deity that she is about to die but will probably take a Qlippoth lord with her, and a new Demon Isle could be achieved if Nocticula could slay him again as he respawns.

She is literally doing a heroic sacrifice, for a world that means little to her, and while Nocticula generally speaking rewards service, nothing has been specifically promised. A sufficiently "RAW" GM could rule that she loses her powers.

Scenario 2: Accidental orphanage saviour

Paul the prepared, Antipaladin of Mammon, has long been running several illicit booze and drug networks in riddleport. One of his production facilities is, funnily enough, under one of Riddleports few "Orphanages" which the more morally good aligned party members ended up funding, and makes use of the child labor (disguised as chemistry or natural science lessons) to gain additional profit. Alas, evil snakepeople attack the Orphanage! Paul the prepared is publicly seen jumping in the ways of fireballs to protect his investments, and facing incredibly odds to allow time for the evacuation!
Unbeknonwst to him, the CN Wizard/Mutagenic Mauler who was co running the things had already evacuated the destilleries, drug ingredients, and especially the really expensive demon cocaine, leaving only the orphans ("we can always find new orphans in riddleport" being his reasoning), so Paul, who thinks he is protecting several 10K GP of his assets and equipment, is actually only protecting Orphans.
Does Paul fall? Technically, he is protecting the innocent.

Scenario 3: The Paladin code of Torag is dumb

Rorek "Smashfist", Antipaladin of Gorrum.
Gorrum can have Antipaladins, but does not have an Antipaladin code written down. He does however has Anathemas according to the pathfinder wiki Gorums Anathemas includes a prohibition on killing prisoners or surrendering foes.

Rorek had, for reasons of urgently neccessary demon removal, had to team up with a Paladin of Torag called "Bob the walking warcrime". After a battle against Demon influence Cultists, the Cultist leader yielded after a tough fight. Rorek accepted his surrender, only for Bob to try and smash the cultist leader with his Greataxe, reacting out of instinct, Rorek interposed himself between Bobs greataxe and his captive, taking a blow.

Does he fall for being a) objectively nicer then the Paladin and b) taking a fairly selfless and dangerous act?

"Autobiographical excerpt of our Ladies life and deeds"

These mythic tomes contain excerpts of Nocticulas autobiography, handwritten by her.
If read by a creature with no mythic potential and less then 10 CR, the semi sentient tome essentially teleports away.

If read by a creature with mythic levels or potential, the tome will truthfully recount a deed of Nocticula, insightfully choosing a deed that will, for the reader, be the deed of Nocticula that is most likely to find his or her approval, such as to render the read more open to various forms of cooperation with her in the future. If for example a Paladin of Iomedae would read it, he would have a recounting of her initially defensive war against the forces of Korluuraud, a vasall of Orcus,, who, backed by Orcus himself, sought to crush her realm and mass murder anyone living there, including mortals.
She did so by, among other things, offering several drops of her blood in a prisoner exchange (to which she, unbeknown to her enemies, could teleport at will), by rekindling the flames and fires of passion and lust of life in a dread knight before slaying Korluuraud in single combat. She did these things, which to an Iomedean Paladin would seem really familar, several thousand years before Iomedae was even born.

A chaotic good follower of Cayden Caylean would read of her slaying of Nahyndri, Demon Lord of Slavery, in part by inciting his slaves into a rebellion after she herself was temporary enslaved. She did give all slaves who backed her their freedom, which the majority used to pledge themselfs to her as vasalls. Those who did not do so, including a fairly powerful Caydenite cleric, she let depart in peace, and with rich rewards.

A chaotic neutral character interested in pranks would see the murder of Migorg, Demon Lord of incest, by throwing a Halfling Paladin of Ragathiel into his private parts (said Paladins armor was enchanted by her with the returning quality) until this demon lord was both dead and humiliated. The tome normally disappears after being read, but can opt to not do so if it detects other possible readers in its vicinity.

Nocticula becomes aware of those reading her autobiopgraphy, and knows the names, class levels, alignments and rough capabilities they possessed at the time read the tome.

Hi there,

I would like to pose the following build challenge:

Assuming you begin the day with full resources, and can prebuff at will, what is the minimum level and wealth needed to one turn a standard Balor with >50% odds.

No 3rd party, 25 point buy, all Paizo material allowed, only full BAB classes.

For plot purposes, the Balor grins as you 5 foot step up to him preparing to full attack him.

F Resources: HP220/220 Mythic power12/13 Spell slots 1:6/7 2:6/7 3:6/7 4:4/5 5: 4/4 ACs:47/41 Touch 37/31 FF 19 Saves:Fort 19 Ref 31/25 Will21 CMD:53 active effects: My. Heroism, Tears to wine, Glibness, Freedom of movement, insp. rage

Oh my, what wicked wicked games we shall play!

F Resources: HP220/220 Mythic power12/13 Spell slots 1:6/7 2:6/7 3:6/7 4:4/5 5: 4/4 ACs:47/41 Touch 37/31 FF 19 Saves:Fort 19 Ref 31/25 Will21 CMD:53 active effects: My. Heroism, Tears to wine, Glibness, Freedom of movement, insp. rage

Hello there friends, for your intraparty plotting and plausibly deniable dotting needs!

Hi there,

if a Bloodrager dips into Fractured mind + Exciter (unless I overlooked something, these two archetypes are compatible), can he be bloodraging and in excitation at the same time?
He can obviously not directly stack the boni (no +8 to STR), but exciter, as well as some bloodrager archetypes, can boost other abilities then STR and Con.

Can a "double raging" PC cast spells (maybe Bloodrager spells, because excitation works like Bloodrage, and thus should allow bloodrager spells being cast, but probably not psychic spells because psychic spells arent bloodrager spells, generally speaking)

So, Minmaximus the Level 4 Bloodrager level 1 Fractured Mind/Exciter
Free action Excitation, Free action Bloodrage, Uses his normal Bloodrage for +4 to STR and Con, and his excitation for +4 to Dex and CHA, if one ends he becomes fatigues, which also automatically ends the other.

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Alyushinnyrra, city of untold riches, metropolis of untold ways to die, capital of lust and mayhem and murder.

You may have ended up there, while alive, for a multitude of reasons, and while many mortals have been consumed by the cities corruption, you are free, and have even acquired property of your own.

You are the proud owners of the "Inn and out", a rather unusual fusion of an inn and a not exactly legal import/export company.

Can you hustle yourself from small time businessmen to demon-lord-adjacent status? What does the Abyss have in store for you? Apply and maybe find out!

Character creation:

All alignments allowed, but if you are a lawful good Paladin you better have a really good reason to cater to demons, and some way to have planar adaptation on you at all times.

25 point buy
--You are starting at character level 8.

--3rd party stuff is case by case basis.

--Elephant in the room houserules are in effect. (both for players and enemies)

--Pick your expected wealth level. You can recoup up to 8K from self crafting items.

Rolling for hp is: Roll half you hitdice, add this to the other half.
Example: Bob he fighter (d10 hd) rolls a D5 and adds 5 to it. Meaning you are guaranteed at least mildly above average hit dice.

If you liked:
--Act 4 Wrath of the righteous
--Running a criminal enterprise in Riddleport
--Perhaps enjoyed Black Lagoon (either Anime or Manga)

You should have fun in this adventure.

Basic plot conceits:
--The player characters are ambitious enough to voluntarily stay in the Abyss, as it has been working out reasonable well for them, although some player characters are there to escape persecution for their pasts. You could relatively soon plane shift out and never go back, and I will not latch you to some infernal contract analogon to prevent that.
--You are level 8 characters in a city with several million demons, while you arent pushovers, a lot of things could easily crush you, Nocticulas laws kind of prevent this, but only kind of, things that want to actively fight you will be CR appropriate, things that you go out of your way to challenge may not.
--No Player vs Player as its just a pain to manage.


is the following thing RAW legal?

Minmaximus the Oracle/Scaled Fist AC50 munchkin encounters Lily the Succubus (who does have a level in inquisitor for a certain spell)! Alas, Lily succesfully charms Minmaximus, seeing Minmaximus murder hobo friends also approaching she thinks quickly, and gets an very funny idea.

She casts the spell "Guardian armor", which is a beneficial spell after all, on Minmaximus and transfers her corset onto him. He now wears armor and no longer gets his ridoncolous CHA bonus to AC, and his murder hobo friend may or may not have to roll vs hideous laughter.

Actual question: Can someone who is charmed refuse a beneficial spell from the one who charmed him?


a quick rules question.

Bob the Bloodrager has a booze problem (extreme Mood swings feat) and a Bard Friend (Bill) who is certain that Bob is meant for greatness, and thus casts moment of greatness on Bob.

Bob Bloodrages and hits a nasty Lich. He wants to use Moment of greatness for this hit.

Does Bobs Strength increase by:

A) (4(Bloodrage) + 2 (extreme mood swings) )*2(doubled from moment of greatness) =12
B) 4(Bloodrage)*2(doubled from moment of greatness) + 2 (extreme mood swings) =10

Or in other words, do you first add up all morale boni to a stat and then double them, or do you first double and then add other boni?

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we recently had a discssion on what the worst feat in pathfinder is.
Many feats are just wasting a feat slot, which is bad, but I have found this gem which is even worse:
All consuming swing

Not only does it require you to have both cleave and vital strike, you need to have a BAB of 8 or more, and well, you can literally kill yourself with it.

Essentially, you pay the cost of reflecting your extra vital strike damage upon yourself, for making an extra normal attack on someone in cleave range. For nearly any build that makes proper use of vital strike (f.e. Orc butchering axe or gorums favored fighting style, both enlarged with impact weapons), this seems like a pretty bad idea.
2x6D6 damage on you (improved vital strike) for a 6D6+your static modifier (which is probably somewhere around 20+ish) just seems really bad, as it will come up to a roughly equal hp trade.

Can anyone come up with a worse feat here?

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I used to be strongly in the bracket of "exotic weapon proficiency is very rarely worth it", but then this happened:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/axe-butcheri ng/

Essentially, for the price of a feat (it does not have the name orc in it, therefor I dont see a way around paying the feat tax RAW) you do get +1D6 in terms of damage over a greatsword. The S19 requirement is a problem at low levels, but martials can just start with 18 Strength, and use either rage/bloodrage or have enlarge person cast on them.
Assuming a 20+ point buy, Str 19 can also be straight aquired at start, esepcially for a barbarian.

What is your verdict on it, cheese? Reasonable optimization?

My issue with it is that it seems to offer a far stronger boost (perhaps more accurately discribed as a strong boost that will always come into play), compare to the benefits that other exotic weapons offer when compared to their martial next of kins.


in Rasputin must die there is this potentially fun, but somewhat awkwardly written weapon:

I am confused by the following things:

--While a flamethrower is a modern firearm, it does not have a range increment.
RAW, this imho means that, since it has no range increment, it does not benefit from the "first range increments hit vs touch AC" rule, making it, as a flamethrower, the only firearm against which armor would work. Which seems rather debatable.

--Can you full attack with it? I dont really see why not to be honest.

--Does the "on fire" debuff stack with itself? Is it mutliple conditions? Can you only be on fire once?

I am totally not planning to throw an insane Ctixyron themed steampunk sphinx with a huge flamethrower ,who is constantly asking riddles such as "What is running away and also on fire? Oh yes, you are!" at my players.

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We currently live in rather annoying times.

Covid sucks, the Climate sucks, policy sucks, increasingly possible Great power wars suck, inflation increases suck, excarbating divisions based on ideology, gender, race or vaccination status suck.

All of this isolates us, all of this increases stress, all of this lowers the treshold for hormonal fight of flight responses, and those really suck on message board because you dont get the "hormonal off ramp" of actually fighting or fleeing and thus stay in the hyper agitated "fight or flight" state, until your hormonal state resets at some point.

Keep this in mind when adressing a fellow human beeing, who, even if wrong on things you are right one, may just as well be right on things you are wrong on.

I know its hard, but maybe we can all try?


A random anonymous dude on the internet with a not very clever username

-Chaotic is OK as long as GM approved, in my case it is so yay me!
-GM will do a lot of homebrew
-I will write all adventure journals under influence of Booze to get in character.

Session 0:

Cast of characters:
Dylan Ap Dryffed:
Human Chaotic Evil Caernian Abyssal Steelblood Bloodrager.
A raider/mercenary by trade, Worships our Lord in Iron and our Lady in Shadows.
Wishes to expunge his sin of "attempted murder" (on top of piracy, murder, slave taking, blasphemy, desecration, slave selling, Heresy and some other things) by properly murdering Sir Balin the pompous prick for real.
After all, merely attempting murder does not please SHE who is in shadows, and to properly atone for it the murder has to be done for real!
Has, while raiding an isolated Mithran island monastery, managed to get 9 different capital crimes commited by himself.
Comically attached to his comically oversized Orcish butchering Axe "Ferocious Overcompensation". Very upbeat personality apart from the whole murderous not-welsh viking raider who worships a Demon Lord and a deity of war and rage thing!.

Dylans opinion: This is me and I am clearly the main character!

Evelyn Silvershield:
Human Antipaladin of Abadar (formerly a Knight of the Alerion) wants to murder Sir Balin the pompous prick because he is responsible for her imprisonment, the death of her husband, a hostile work enviroment on account of him being a clingy creep and some other things.
Is in for attempted murder and attempt to duel for to the death.

Dylans opinion: didnt know old money sack had antipaladins, must be the feared "Pay your bills idiots" batallion. Need to check if its ok if I kill the prick, or maybe I just cut him in two and then we each murder a half?

NE Halfing Bard. Is a very nice person who calls everyone mylord, quite into Belial worship, probably will be the utility skill monkey. Apparently managed to replace the holy books in one of Mithras cathedral with pornographic prose. Dylan has already asked him for some copies.

Dylans opinion: Apparently worhships the funniest devil, and knows some funny songs. Also calls everyone boss, think well get on fine!

Victor Caulston:
LE Arcanist, worships Asmodeus, does not talk very much. Got caught summoning a devil and/or was ratted out by his family.

Dylans opinion: Said he can make Dylan bigger once we retrieve his precious component pouch from whichever sun sucker has it! Hmmm, Big Dylan with Ferocious overcompensation= Dead Mitrans! Good Wyrdwolf!

Nox Lawfull Evil Mesmerist:
Very charismatic. Unknown otherwise.

Dylans opinion:
Hmm, possibly romantic competition?

Vexus the Mysterios Gunslinging Inquisitor of Ctixyron.
Capabilities unknown, very attached to his weaponry.

Dylans opinion:
Yaay! People who care about their weapons unite!

Also, there is a sleeping elfen lady in the other cell, who had her ankles slashed by the sun suckers! Evy said something about her being a smith, should definitly get her out if we escape, smiths are really valuable!

Now, all I have to do is to get angry enough to break my chains without the guards noticing. My previous cunning plan of trying to improve the chains using my absolutly non existing craft skills has been rebuffed by the vile reactionary forces of observable reality or something! Suckers!

So, there are ways to get your sould consigned to Abbadon, Hell or the Abyss regardless of your alignment.

the easiest case is perhaps this:

Bob the Diabolist enters an infernal contract, signed in Asmodeus name, consigning his soul to hell in perpetuitiy, in return for the services of Katie the Erinye.
However, while adventureing, he is laid low by a vile Glabrezu, who, somehow recognizing or knowing that a infernal contract exists, whips out an enslaved Cacodaemon, has that Cacodaemon create a soul gem out of Bob and then Eats Bobs soul gem, partly because Demons are gonna Demon and partly because bragging rights (BWHAHAHAH ASMODEUS I HAVE FOOLED YOU!) thus consigning Bobs souls to the Abyss instead.

So, who gets Bobs soul, the Abyss or Hell?
Does Katie the Erinye (impersonating a distraught widow) hire a team of adventurers to get Bobs soul back by slaying the Glabrezu, because after putting up with Bobs antics as long as she did, she really wants that soul for all the effort?

Likewise, could a very creative/risk affine Individual go full Harry Dresden, pledge his soul to as many mutually antagonistic entities as possible and then grab some popcorn as they fight it out?


I am playing a Chaotic Neutral Skald and have picked up World Serpent, as it is mechanically interesting and fitting for our mostly vs outsiders campaign we are playing. I also dislike picking the cookie cutter beast totem choice.

However, there seems to be relatively scant background concerning how this totem actually works and who grants it. It could certainly be Raghdan.

Is it viable to portray Raghdan as an extremely grumpy old dragon-linnorm deity that whose motiviation is "GET OFF MY LAWN!", with a rather expansive definition of "MY LAWN" and who is impressed by somewhat comically excaggerted acts of violence against outsiders.

My character smashed an idol of deskari using the local deskari head cultist as an improvised weapon (not as badass as it sounds as this was out of combat and the cultist was already dead), which still qualified for getting Ragdahns attention for about a millisecond or so.

Is there any established background?


we are about to engage in an very epic campaign featuring champions from many different planes in a fight for the future of the multiverse against the vile Qlippoth hordes.

One of them being my charming self as a Succubus.

As such, I have a regrettfully not grapple centric (I do not intend to be grappling Qlippoths, thank you very much no Hentai here) and thus only mildly naughty rules question:

If I use suggestion on one of my allies, and implant him with the suggestion to "Do whatever you want / Kill Qlippoths in whatever way he deems appropriate".
In a more generic setting, it could be "Kill Crusaders in whatever way you deem appropriate".

RAW: The character is now under a mind controlling effect from me (assuming he opts to fail the safe, or simply does not make the safe because my DCs are kind of high and the suggestion is very reasonable) for CL level hours. Any new mind effecting (which would presumably include fear etc. effects?) thing, which would stop them from doing that would thus essentially be a competing mind controll thing and would have to roll contested charisma vs my charming mythic Succubus self (tehe, good luck with that tentaclefaces!)?

Could a more normal Succubus NPC (my char in question is also a Mysterious stranger 7/trickster 6, but using suggestion in this manner is something all Succubi can/could do) use this on her cohorts/goons to protect them against Will based crowd control spells?

Alternatively, could for example a heroic bard use suggestion, or suggestion mass on his/her allies in such a way?

I dont think I am actually going to do that, because I would be tearing my hair out if I had to GM against this, but the rules question is I think valid.

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Hi there,

so, rocket tag. We all know it, very few people like it.

I would like to propose some probably very dumb ideas to reduce the impact of initiative and rocket tag at least somewhat.

1: Mythic instability:
Fluff: "Just as the party defeated the vile spawn of the demonlord, the demonlord himselfs joins the party. Harsh words are exchanged, and emboldened by battlecries such "dibs on the glaive" and "free stat boosts and hugs from Nocticula" the mostly mortal mythical murder hobos charge the father of minotaurs.
However, such a clash could destablize creation (by causing your GM to get a brain aneurysm over one turning a demon lord), the space time continium, and other things!
Thus, the even more mythic forces of balance intervene to dampen the effects!
Mechanically, everything offensively done by everyone is the first round is reduced by 50%. Damage, debuffs, durations, DCs of debuffs. In the second round, everything is reduced by 25%. In the third round, things are as normal. Tinker with these percentage as you deem appropriate.

2: A reasonably well built mythic party is very difficult to challenge in a "direct" fight, without peak nuclear rocket tag. I think a possible solution is to combine fighting with either stealth or social challenges, this will often create achievable failure states, which also arent partywipes. Especially since both stealth and social challenges can be used by the GM to split the party, and draw parts of it into unfavorable positions. If part of the party gets defeated in detail, well, rescue/escape/negotation situation imho.

3: Mutual disarmament. At least in my tables, relations between the players and the GM were considerably better then those between the USSR and the USA, so what worked in the cold war can work at your table. Simply mutually removing some excessively eggregious options from both sides (mythic power attack, arguably also other things such as mythic time stop) should reduce things a bit.


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This is for a WOTR homebrew that is more diplomatically focused.

So, bad guys summon something powerful, and the good guys are about 5 turns away from it as the summoning completes.

The "something powerfull" is a mythic Succubus with 15-20 hero levels on top. The Succubus is very very non amused about being summoned (she was doing something rather important for her "become a nascent demon lord" plans), has parts of her mortal bodyguard plane shift to her position. Following this, she starts drastically murdering the bad guys while singing operatic symphonic metal.

The heroes are open to negotiations concerning her repatriation, which are complicated by the fact that the Succubus would not accept dismissal as her body guard are mortals and not native to the abyss, they have one plane shift user and he used his daily cast of it to get the rest of the guards and himself there.

When queried about wether her bodyguards are there willingly and if they do not know that she will corrupt them fully, she is like "They are mine, by promises given freely, body and soul and in perpetuity. Why would I reduce their effectiveness as bodyguards by corrupting them? They already fight better then most Demons, and are far more loyal then all of them.".

One bodyguard casually quips that his "number of innocents murdered per time unit" KPI went down drastically after abandoning his nations military and going into Nocticulas service.

Succubus:"If I have pressing need of an orphanage to be burned down, I have other assets who would have fun doing this and even see it as a reward rather then a task, why misuse my guards? An asset is to be used for the purpose it is most effective for. Using them for "orphanage heating" would be like eating virgin brain soup with a fork."

Nothing the Succubus says detects as a lie.

Is she too "nice" or too "rational"?

P.S. We may have a hellknight in the group who could be tempted to "redeem her to the path of efficiency and effectivity".
Actually, what happens to a Succubus who becomes Neutral Evil?

For me it was 4 because:

1: A fairly fresh location with interesting NPCs.
2: The party was not yet so terrible strong it could trivially curb stomp all the things.
3: It felt pretty open overall. The party came up with a lot of creative ways to have some fun themselfs, our GM may have made the islands perhaps too chaotic and not enough evil (party basically pranked itself out of several encounters), the audiance had some slapstik elements, but well, excellent times were had by all.
4: The audiance with N. got adapted and was quite hilarious. We had a houserule that a player had to down a shot/take a sip of wine whenever they laughed at something, to simulate becoming increasingly light headed in Ns. presence.
The party did receive hints throughout act 4 that Nocticula does indeed have a sense of humor, and that she is interested in novelty, so on pc came up with the idea of talking about things that have never been said in her presence.
It featured:
--A discourse based on mathematics and Irorian philosophy that Baphomets Cock size always approaches zero. A lackey of Hepzahmirah attempted to dispute this, but got trolled by the party into disbelieving himself. I have no clear memory how.
--A surprising reveal of a powerful Irorian mantra, thought by the master of masters himself, to ward off Shamiras (who was quite hostile to the party) seduction: "Shamiras breasts are padded".
--A professional discourse on how to draft and create a "summon tide of flaming barbecue dippings" spell to make Gibrileths edible. Lady N. had apparently given the matter some previous thought, indicated that she did assasinate someone with something like that once as a lark and was well prepared for the discussion.
--A reverse psychology Gorrumite plea for her highness to consider the effects her efficiency has on the total demon lord population.
--A semi desertation of Golarioni cultures that eat cows and/or goats and/or cockroaches. The attempt to change Dreskaris "main animal" from a Locust to a cockroach was well received.
--A discussion on the feasiblity of assasinating demons with dropped anvils consecreated to Torag on them, one of the PCs did pull it off once (it only killed a random Babau and not Jerribeth as was planned), and very politly asked for her professional opinion on the matter. Nocticula deadpanned, gave it a B+, stating that it showed a great deal of orginality and promise, especially for a first attempt, more so from a normally more frontal fighting mortal, and recommended various practical means such as attached spikes to make anvil based assasinations more practical in the future.
--When it came down to business, the party offered her pick of a soul in return for a military alliance, with the soul being consumated after the objectives of the military alliance were achieved. Some haggling ensued, N. demanded to pick after observing their perofrmance in the next mission. Led to some unusual dynamics in that parts of the party intentionally fudgefingered in order to not get picked. The Paladin in particular. The Bloodrager gave no f!~!s, killed B. and got picked.
--Bonuspoints for the Bloodrager having the "The Virgin" fighting name in the arena, (because he deadpanned every single approaching Succubus/Lilitu with "I am a virgin and am saving myself for someone special.") he actually was one but nobody in the entire city believed that. He indeed ended up saving himself for someone very special.