Charm person and guardian armor

Rules Questions


is the following thing RAW legal?

Minmaximus the Oracle/Scaled Fist AC50 munchkin encounters Lily the Succubus (who does have a level in inquisitor for a certain spell)! Alas, Lily succesfully charms Minmaximus, seeing Minmaximus murder hobo friends also approaching she thinks quickly, and gets an very funny idea.

She casts the spell "Guardian armor", which is a beneficial spell after all, on Minmaximus and transfers her corset onto him. He now wears armor and no longer gets his ridoncolous CHA bonus to AC, and his murder hobo friend may or may not have to roll vs hideous laughter.

Actual question: Can someone who is charmed refuse a beneficial spell from the one who charmed him?

This is like asking can someone refuse a spell cast by their best friend?

Of course they can.

The question is, would this particular person do so?
DO they know the spell being cast? Probably not because they're not a spell caster
Do the succubus try to make up a reason they're casting a spell? Even if I was best friends with the caster, if they were unannouncedly casting a spell on me, I certainly wouldn't consider myself willing. They'd have to at least tell me they're going to cast a spell on me first. Assuming I'm not a spell caster and they come up with some reasonable reason to cast a spell on me I might agree. But saying "I want to cast a buff on you" isn't going to be enough. Especially if we're not currently in combat, I'm going to be wondering why you're wasting the spell.

Charm isn't domination. The best way to look at it is you've magical made the person your best friend, but they are not your slave and wouldn't do things for you that they wouldn't do for their close friends.

And magic being what it is, I don't think people would generally be in the habit of accepting spells that they didn't expect to be cast on them.

Liliyashanina wrote:
Actual question: Can someone who is charmed refuse a beneficial spell from the one who charmed him?

"A charmed character is entitled to an opposed Charisma check against his master in order to resist instructions or commands that would make him do something he wouldn’t normally do even for a close friend. If he succeeds, he decides not to go along with that order but remains charmed." CRB pg. 561

Would Minmaximus equip an armor that a close friend would hand them? No, because he knows it would weaken him. Therefore, he's definitely entitled to a charisma ckeck-off against Lily.

However, I think it doesn't even get that far: "All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks." CRB pg. 208 "A charmed character who is openly attacked by the creature who charmed him or by that creature’s apparent allies is automatically freed of the spell or effect." CRB pg. 561

Since making him equip an armor objectively "hampers" Minmaximus, I think casting the spell counts as an attack even though it's tagged as harmless, and thus doing so breaks the charm effect.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Charm person and guardian armor All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions