Lord Orion's page

46 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


Is there any rule that says these two spells can't be active in the same area? As in, "The wall if fire will burn away the stinking cloud" in any square they are both active in. Or some such. I have never encountered any rule like that.

4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Do they make an image go bye-bye or no? On the one hand, "Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple each round at the beginning of your turn, including the round that black tentacles is cast..."
On the other hand, an attack roll IS being made. (Grapple check) The figments ARE objects, (see the comments about cleaving images in the mirror image spell listing).
The tentacles don't "see" visually...they basically flail about blindly, and mirror image has no effect on blind attackers... Any input?

I have a character in my party who has Profession: Trapper. I know how much income he can make a week, with his skill check. My question, is there a source/rulebook/reference out there that assigns a gp value to a finished animal pelt, by type? Normal animals...beaver, rabbit, fox, wolf, etc.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

A creature is flying using a fly spell. Said creature becomes paralyzed. (Let's say by Ghoul touch from a spectral hand...or whatever). What happens? First, he stinks. :-) I assume it will come down to fly skill checks...concentration only is required. Anyone?

Ok...a pesky wizard has cast mirror image on himself. If I cast any of the swarm spells on him, (they do automatic damage), how does that affect the images? Do ALL the images take damage and vanish? None? Help!

Does the Stone shape spell work on a petrified creature? Say, A huge crocodile. Or whatever. The spell Soften Earth and stone states it does not work on stone or earth creatures...I take this as gargoyles/elementals and the like. Would Soften earth and stone work on petrified creatures? If you cast either of these spells on a petrified creature, and use them to remove parts. (tail, teeth, a jaw, heart, etc,) that creature would be screwed if it was ever changed back to flesh, right?

Wow...I go to bed last night, and when I get up, there are a butt-load of responses. That's the beauty of forums. All of you rock. I should have clarified a few points in my original post here. In my group, where several of us alternate gm-ing, two of the gm's have made a decision that "pit is too powerful" and have house-ruled out the 5 foot perimeter of the pit being sloped, along with the effects of that sloping. So now you have a cylinder, (or cube) not too different from a really deep pothole. I live near Chicago, and there are times when either monster potholes, or pits/trenches dug by construction crews can't be filled, and traffic needs to keep moving. The street guys place HUGE steel sheets over the holes, and cars just drive over them. These sheets are 1/2 inch to 3/4 inches thick, and need cranes to lift and place. So I got to thinking, hmmm...."Wall of Iron"
So, without the buttressing argument, you have a pit spell ending, and the bottom rising like a cylinder in your car's engine: "...When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round."
If you look at the Wall of Iron spell, it says, "...Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage while fleeing from the wall..."
With the falling Wall of Iron, you have an irresistible force (the wall, if you are a medium creature) meeting an immovable object. (The ground). Getting into physics here is a bad idea, this being a game, but the point is, the WoI spell says "with room to flee". If the WoI is the same size as the room, and is created next to a wall, and can only fall one way, there IS no room to flee. The 10d6 damage is for FAILING the reflex save. The spell itself doesn't go into what happens when there is no place to go at all. The current version of the game doesn't like absolutes..."Save or die" situations, especially at low levels. Previous editions were more vague, and open to gm/dm interpretation, as far as spell effects. In the spirit of the game, a save is allowed in any situation, for balance, and to keep everybody having fun. Think fireball in a 10x10 room. Where would you dodge to? For game balance, you could roll a reflex save. Maybe you get behind the huge barbarian...
Anyway, options for a Wall of (whatever) over an ending pit spell could include:

1) Total jelly-like death. Eww. No fun.
2) The "shunting concept" 10d6 damage, and you are next to the wall.
Not realistic, but it IS a game. Perhaps residual extra-dimensional
magic as the spell fades.
3) It just can't be done, although I believe this would be a bad gm-ing
call, personally.
4) *** Please insert alternative here ***

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

A wizard casts one of the pit spells. Baddie falls into said pit. The wizard casts a horizontal wall of stone over said pit. When the duration of the pit spell ends, fun ensues... "When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round."

My would gm's handle this situation? Squish? Save? Save details?

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

There are several actually, but they're either faction for PFS or racials, but those can be from the Adopted socail trait... more info on the char to point you in the right direction?

He is a straight human wizard, Sargavan Colonial in the Serpent's Skull series.

Hey there a trait, or any other way a wizard can get perception as a class skill? Obviously multi-classing would do it, but that is not an option...

Hi. If you successfully cast touch of idiocy on an opponent several times, does he lose the ability points for every casting, (down to a score of 1), or for just the first spell you hit him with? Does this spell stack with itself?

A spell like Blacklight effectively gives those within, (except the caster), the blinded condition. The blinded condition states some penalties, however, a penalty to a reflex save is not expressly addressed. Say a fireball was coming at a blinded (in total darkness) character. Or, one of the pit spells was cast beneath it, how would a reflex save be affected? Would the reflex save (being dexterity based), take the same penalty as AC? (Losing dex bonus to AC). Would the -4 penalty to dex-based skills apply? Would both of these figure in, or perhaps just the higher of the two?

concerro wrote:

This has come up before.

The benefit of the spell working this way is that if cast on a caster he is shutdown. He can't just leave the area. If you cast it on an object there is no save, but the caster can just walk away.


Helmholtz wrote:

Shouldn't the illusory wall in D14 in HoHR and the silence spell in the pit trap in D10 grant the PCs a Will Save?

The illusionary wall should have a save DC of 16 if interacted with. The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.

Hope that helps

Jason Bulmahn
HoHR Author
Managing Editor of Dragon

I believe this should settle it. Thank you all. :-)

Party Barbarian is silenced by party cleric. Barbarian allows the spell, (does not make will save), because he knows to do so. Barbarian runs up to nasty spellcastins foe. Let's please keep the response simple...DOES THE ENEMY CASTER GET A SAVE AS THE BARBARIAN MOVES TO HIM? No spell resistance is involved. Thank you for reading...

Olwen wrote:

It says so right there on the Credits page, p. 2, in small print:

The Varnhold Vanishing wrote:
“The Varnhold Vanishing” is a Pathfinder Adventure Path scenario designed for four 7th-level characters. By the end of this adventure, characters should reach 10th level.

Thank you much. :-)

Please help...what is the level range for Kingmaker #3, Varnhold vanishing? What level does the module say the party is supposed to be at the end of the adventure? Please, no comments about GM style, etc...what does the module actually say? A pasted quote in a reply would be wonderful... Thank you.

Is there a Druid or Cleric spell that can enable an animal companion (or summoned animal, for that matter), to bypass DR x/good? Align weapon works on a weapon, but is there an equivalent for natural attacks? Help!

Our party finished the first two adventures in the series. We began VV recently. We are 7th level. We went straight to Varnhold, found a map to the Nomens, got the bow from the Spriggans, were informed of the missing Centaur daughter, and got directed to the Valley of the Dead.We are heading West, I assume to where something major awaits us. We have a bunch of quest sheets, and have solved none of them. We have explored (for 100 full day), a total of 7 hexes, on the way to (and including) Varnhold. Now we seem to be on the fast track to the end of the adventure. Out GM posted this:


"If I remember correctly we are on day 15 of the month. If you choose, you need to rescue the Varnhold villagers by day 25. This is not your only option. Resolution of the Varnhold disappearance may not be your highest priority. That is up to you.

However I just want to be clear that events are not held in stasis until you decide to address them. Your choices have consequences"


Does this seem...abnormally abrupt to anyone who has played or GMed VV? Again, we are 7th level, and just beat the Soul eater and Zombie Cyclops...

Ok, the rules say: "Temporary Bonuses: Temporary increases to your Wisdom (or whatever stat), score give you a bonus on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saving throws. This bonus also applies to any spell DCs based on Wisdom.

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."

The example above was for a Wisdom increasing item such as a Headband of Inspired Wisdom. My question would apply to any headband or belt which grants an enhancement bonus to 1 or more abilities.

What happens after 24 hours? The bonus is permanent, and the item no longer affects the wearer? I'm assuming the item doesn't "go dead", so to speak. Do you have to wear the item 24/7, or can you take it off to sleep, etc? Can another party member then put on the item and benefit from it? That seems quite powerful, but after reading it over and over, that is the impression I get.

Won't you please help? (Sally Struthers)

As far as expanding, we should only add a hex when all 3 Kingdom scores exceed the Control DC by 4. So...Our Control DC is now 29 (8 hexes, 1 city district - You were correct about that, Bill) Our scores are: EC 42, LOY 28, and ST 32. We should add a hex when we can get all 3 scores to 33. (Adding 1 ST and 5 LOY. This is a safe and fast way to expand. We should prepare a second district in Elkton soon. Same rule as adding a increases our Control DC by 1) I like the idea of each of us designing our own city.
Oleg's old place is a good site. We can discuss others next time. I have no idea how Tatzelford is going to work. If 12 months have gone by...they must be building in their village, right? A second city district in Elkton will be able to afford some of the medium priced buildings in a few turns...enough to do the selling of a medium item for 8 BP.
That bug event REALLY could have been bad...we got lucky. I fixed a glitch in the spreadsheet...was giving us 1 EC instead of 1 LOY for the Exotic Craftsman. Only caught it because I had been doing the record keeping manually, and the numbers were off. Had to figure out how to edit the spreadsheet. Wonder how many other glitches there might be...
I rather enjoyed the Baker's square meet up. Doing the Kingdom stuff at the game table would be an all evening thing. We should fight the monster next time, though.

Ok, as a player, we are effectively going into the Varnhold module with 8 hexes claimed. We have taken a total of 28 monthly game turns, both at the table, and online during this overall adventure. (2 modules completed so far). Bad rolls initally, and being unfamiliar with the Kingdom rules in general slowed us down significantly in the early going. As a player, I would like to know how many hexes had been claimed at the start of the Varnhold module, by as many gm's and players as possible. It seems 8 is way below where we should be. I'm looking for an "upper end"...the MAX number of hexes any group has controlled at this point, and a "lower end", which is very likely my group currently. the modules specifically state how many hexes we should have claimed at any given point? Thanks!

Turn 24 Noble Villa built Monster defeated +8,+8 BP
25 Bugs attack...make both rolls. No effect Build Ex. Craftsman +8, +9 BP
Turn 26 Build brothel +8, +11 BP
27 Build Jail Faithfulness event (no effect) +8, +8 BP
28 Build Tradesman and house +8, +11 BP

Saving turn 29 for the following year. Have to stop for tonight.

organized wrote:
Sorry I am new to google documents. I had to check a box so you can edit it. Note you have to access the spread sheet from out Obsidian Portal wiki link in order to edit.

Might be going out tonight. Doing update now...

Turn 28 was the 12th turn we did today, since the first turn of kingdom building was actually turn 0... Turn 29 will be the first turn of the second year. How do I edit that spreadsheet?

Not letting me edit it...?

How does that table differ from the handout? It seems to suck...3 bad events in a row...

Turn 17 Hex Road (Road toward Tatz)
18 Hex Road Farm (Horse crime lord...that's ridiculous)
19 Hex Road Farm Mill built Horse thing ends
20 Hex Road Farm Smith Built
21 Saved up $ Noble feud, made roll
22 Saved up $
23 Built Caster tower Monster E=37 L=23 S=26 BP=15

What table are you using for events? It's a percentage table on the handout... On turn 23, we get a monster. Current Stability is 26, current DC is 29. We need to roll a 3+ on a d20 now, or stop here to play it out. What do you think? What is your phone number? We built the caster tower on this turn. With our economy at 37, we will make the DC 35 check to sell a medium magic item automatically every turn, adding 8 BP. I'm not going to bother rolling individual items, since our characters don't just get them, anyway.

This seems to work...go ahead and do the next 11 know about the 75% chance for an event if there was no event the previous turn, yes? If you roll out the entire event, (when we have one), I can build and use your numbers that you roll. If you do roll an event, unless it's a Roleplay event, roll the effect right then, and give me the numbers. :-)

Hey all...we wrapped up the second module in the Stolen lands series, and took a break from playing for some 9 months. We just resumed with the Varnhold module. We had slain the owlbear, but didn't play out the return to town before stopping playing rather abruptly. Was there any type of reward or bonus in the module as written for slaying the Owlbear, being the apparent boss monster and climax of the entire module? Please help, and thank you.

As a Druid, can you be affected with a spell that targets an animal, or animals, if you are wildshaped into an animal at the time it is cast? If so, when you return to your normal form, it obviously doesn't function, but would it still be working if you wildshape back to an animal form? (assuming the duration hasn't expired).

Ok, A druid wildshapes into...whatever. The Druid is using the beastshape spell, (as beastshape)... Physical abilities are altered by size...

"Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus."

That was Beastshape 1...My question, What are my ability scores as the creature I end up being? My own mental, but physical would be mine, modified by the spell? Or...the bestiary animal entry, modified by the spell? Help!

I thought I remembered a rule about summoning creatures that states you can't summon something into an enemy space, but I can't find the rule. If I were to summon stirges (tiny), could they appear in an enemy space and attack, or would they have to appear in an adjacent space, and then move into the target's space to attack? (drawing an attack of opportunity.) Summon Nature's Ally states: "...The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." Where is the rule that says a creature can not be summoned into an enemy space? Thanks in advance.

Can the effects of the "Death or Glory" feat be combined with Haste? As written, it seems they could be used simultaneously. Even combined with the "Vital Strike" feats. Death or Glory CAN be combined with the Vital Strike feats, can the character then be hasted? Any input?

Since a hero point can be used to bolster an attack roll or save by 8 (if announced before rolling), would you, as a gm, allow it to increase the save dc of a spell you are about to cast by 8 as well? You aren't lowering the target's resistance are increasing your own dc by 8 for one spell that HAS to get through. Seems equivalent to an attack roll...

The Cleric casts silence on the burly fighter...The burly fighter (quietly) charges up to the enemy caster who has Spell Resistance. Does the enemy caster get to try his SR against the silence spell, or can he just not cast verbal spells unless he moves out of the radius of the silence?

Hey all...Can you partially recharge a wand? Say you have a wand with a few charges left. Can you divide the cost of a new wand by 50 (charges in a new wand), and put, say...10 charges into the existing wand, for 1/5 the cost of a new wand?

A PC wishes to climb a wall. A caster casts Grease on said wall. What is the DC to climb the greased wall? Is it unclimbable? What if the climber has Spider Climb cast on him?

Let me add...If anyone has other good house rules, please include. Thanks.

Lord Orion wrote:
Bane Wraith wrote:

...I guess, the question is is Each of these figments considered a "Creature", or if targeting the Creature will automatically hit the original... correct?

Edit: Sorry... Amateur response, but it seems like Magic Missile will strike them no matter what, as long as the original does not have total concealment/cover. And Mirror Image doesn't grant that. And I don't know if the images can Fool the Spell itself into thinking there are multiple creatures.

In other words, if the caster tried... They'd all hit the original.

Confirmations, anyone?

Reading the text of both spell descriptions, what they both seem to say is, you can hit the "real" creature with as many missiles as you like, but you can't affect any of the figments. Or...a hit on a figment won't make it disappear, and will be wasted...that is likely how my current gm will play it. I wish the rules would have given a specific reference to these 2 spells effects on each other...

Heh...U and I came to the same conclusion about 38 seconds apart. :-p Thanks to all who responded.

Bane Wraith wrote:

...I guess, the question is is Each of these figments considered a "Creature", or if targeting the Creature will automatically hit the original... correct?

Edit: Sorry... Amateur response, but it seems like Magic Missile will strike them no matter what, as long as the original does not have total concealment/cover. And Mirror Image doesn't grant that. And I don't know if the images can Fool the Spell itself into thinking there are multiple creatures.

In other words, if the caster tried... They'd all hit the original.

Confirmations, anyone?

Reading the text of both spell descriptions, what they both seem to say is, you can hit the "real" creature with as many missiles as you like, but you can't affect any of the figments. Or...a hit on a figment won't make it disappear, and will be wasted...that is likely how my current gm will play it. I wish the rules would have given a specific reference to these 2 spells effects on each other...

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hey all. I have been reading the description of Mirror Image. It seems to be saying that magic missile with multiple missiles at different figments won't work like in the old days. (1st, 2nd, and all the 3rd editions)of D&D. Since magic missile is not a roll-to-hit spell... Can someone please clarify whether magic missile can still be used to get rid of multiple figments? Thanx

If a monster has damage reduction, how does this work against attacks from creatures, other monsters, or falling into a spiked pit? Can a summoned creature strike a monster that has DR that requires a certain alignment, or magical plus, or whatever? If a Demon, (or whatever), needs a holy weapon to be able to strike and damage it, does this mean a Dragon can do it no harm? There must be a rule that addresses this issue, but I have been unable to locate it...

Here's one for you guys...The detect Magic spell: "...The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it." Suppose a magic item is under water? You are standing on a dungeon floor, and a magic ring, for example, is under 6" of water in a small pool, or font. Does it glow? Say it's 12" deep? 3 feet? What if the water is dirty? Must you stick your head under water to look for magic auras?... are in a closed 15x15 room, and some shmuck wizard casts a fireball into that room from way above . There is nowhere to dodge to. Can you still make a dex save at all? There was an adventure a few years back in 3rd edition?...that the party was levitating down a large cylinder, and the vampire/wizard cast a cone of cold up the cylinder. The module specifically stated that there could be no save against the effect, everyone took full damage. Is there a rule that addresses this currently? Common sense should dictate, but...

I thought that was the case as well...what's the point of stirges? Then I read their bestiary entry more closely. Take a standard troll as an example target: Touch AC of 11. A stirge attack is a +7 touch attack. That stirge need only roll a 4 for it's attack to hit. Then:

Attach (Ex)
When a stirge hits with a touch attack, its barbed legs latch onto the target, anchoring it in place. An attached stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 12, but holds on with great tenacity and inserts its proboscis into the grappled target's flesh. A stirge has a +8 racial bonus to maintain its grapple on a foe once it is attached. An attached stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself—if its prey manages to win a grapple check or Escape Artist check against it, the stirge is removed.

And then:

Blood Drain (Ex)
A stirge drains blood at the end of its turn if it is attached to a foe, inflicting 1 point of Constitution damage. Once a stirge has dealt 4 points of Constitution damage, it detaches and flies off to digest the meal. If its victim dies before the stirge's appetite has been sated, the stirge detaches and seeks a new target.

When the target of a multi-stirge attack get's his action, any grapple-breaking/escape artist checks, or attacks to a stirge are attacks he is not making on a pc.

Thank you all for the responses. My DM tends to not like ideas the players come up with that are clever, original, or tend to work well. My plan is to cast several Summon Nature's Ally spells consecutively, and use higher level slots so I get multiple creatures from the first level SNA list. They would all be stirges. Each one is likely to roll a hit, and each hit Drains 1 CON with a hit/attach, then 1 CON per round automatically, for up to 4 CON total per stirge. If a single bad guy has 6, 8 or 10 stirges,(stirgi?), on him...ouch. Do the math. My DM won't like the (completely legitimate) results, and will likely make some arbitrary ruling as to why I cant do this. I'll continue this thread and let everyone know what happens next time we play. I have a 6th level Druid, btw.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Help!!! This will come up in my group shortly. Is there any rule that says a caster of Summon Nature's Ally (or Summon Monster, for that matter), can only have creatures summoned from one active spell at a time? In other words, a 7th level caster summons 3 stirges on round one of combat. He used a 3rd level Summon spell to do so. These creatures will last 7 rounds before disappearing. Is there a rule that says this caster can't cast another summon spell on the following round, adding additional creatures to the battle? What about casting this spell 3 or more times in a row? I can't find any rule that prohibits doing so. If there is such a rule, can someone point it out to me? Thank you in advance.