Silence (Spell) Again!!


Rules Questions


Party Barbarian is silenced by party cleric. Barbarian allows the spell, (does not make will save), because he knows to do so. Barbarian runs up to nasty spellcastins foe. Let's please keep the response simple...DOES THE ENEMY CASTER GET A SAVE AS THE BARBARIAN MOVES TO HIM? No spell resistance is involved. Thank you for reading...


I'm pretty sure you only get a save if the spell is targeting you and not if you are in the area of effect.

Shadow Lodge

Vaellen wrote:
I'm pretty sure you only get a save if the spell is targeting you and not if you are in the area of effect.

[citation needed]

Otherwise, cast invi/silence on any melee char, beat all the casters (nevermind the grapple check).


http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/silence.html wrote:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

By RAW, I don't see anything about people not getting a Will save if the area moves or they step into it, as far I read it this means all the unwilling characters get a save against the effects.

The tricky part is, I think if the barbarian runs back and forth it would mean they have to roll more checks every time the enemy gets into the area of the spell.


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
as far I read it this means all the unwilling characters get a save against the effects.

Nonsense. You don't make saves against effects, you make saves against spells. Bart the Barbarian was targeted by the spell, so it's Bart who gets a save. And the rest of us just have to suffer.

Vaellen wrote:
I'm pretty sure you only get a save if the spell is targeting you and not if you are in the area of effect.

What he said.


As far as I understand it the part about an "unwilling creature" refers to the target of the spell, not those in the field of the spell.


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/silence.html wrote:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

By RAW, I don't see anything about people not getting a Will save if the area moves or they step into it, as far I read it this means all the unwilling characters get a save against the effects.

The tricky part is, I think if the barbarian runs back and forth it would mean they have to roll more checks every time the enemy gets into the area of the spell.

By raw no save unless you were the target of the spell.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

100% no save for caster, very effective tactic. that is why spellcasters prefer meatshields in the way to intercept these sort of things!


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/silence.html wrote:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

By RAW, I don't see anything about people not getting a Will save if the area moves or they step into it, as far I read it this means all the unwilling characters get a save against the effects.

The tricky part is, I think if the barbarian runs back and forth it would mean they have to roll more checks every time the enemy gets into the area of the spell.

By raw no save unless you were the target of the spell.

Nope, by RAW it allows you to place the spell on a creature, but that doesn't mean people in an area don't get a saving throw. That part is covered by "An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."

I don't see it specified anywhere that those unwilling creatures in the area effect don't get the saving throw unless they got targeted directly.

I don't say this is the intended method, just that it can also be read like this. :)


You get a save if you are targeted directly. Otherwise you don't get save.

Just to be clear if you cast silence directly on a creature they get a save, but if someone enters the area of affect of a silence spell they don't get a save.


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/silence.html wrote:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

By RAW, I don't see anything about people not getting a Will save if the area moves or they step into it, as far I read it this means all the unwilling characters get a save against the effects.

The tricky part is, I think if the barbarian runs back and forth it would mean they have to roll more checks every time the enemy gets into the area of the spell.

By raw no save unless you were the target of the spell.

Nope, by RAW it allows you to place the spell on a creature, but that doesn't mean people in an area don't get a saving throw. That part is covered by "An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."

I don't see it specified anywhere that those unwilling creatures in the area effect don't get the saving throw unless they got targeted directly.

I don't say this is the intended method, just that it can also be read like this. :)

You're mistaken. It's an emanation. Check the magic section of the PHB for clarification.


This has come up before.

The benefit of the spell working this way is that if cast on a caster he is shutdown. He can't just leave the area. If you cast it on an object there is no save, but the caster can just walk away.

Quote:


Helmholtz wrote:

Shouldn't the illusory wall in D14 in HoHR and the silence spell in the pit trap in D10 grant the PCs a Will Save?

The illusionary wall should have a save DC of 16 if interacted with. The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.

Hope that helps

Jason Bulmahn
HoHR Author
Managing Editor of Dragon


Thank you.


concerro wrote:

This has come up before.

The benefit of the spell working this way is that if cast on a caster he is shutdown. He can't just leave the area. If you cast it on an object there is no save, but the caster can just walk away.

Quote:


Helmholtz wrote:

Shouldn't the illusory wall in D14 in HoHR and the silence spell in the pit trap in D10 grant the PCs a Will Save?

The illusionary wall should have a save DC of 16 if interacted with. The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.

Hope that helps

Jason Bulmahn
HoHR Author
Managing Editor of Dragon

I believe this should settle it. Thank you all. :-)

Shadow Lodge

concerro wrote:

This has come up before.

The benefit of the spell working this way is that if cast on a caster he is shutdown. He can't just leave the area. If you cast it on an object there is no save, but the caster can just walk away.

Quote:


Helmholtz wrote:

Shouldn't the illusory wall in D14 in HoHR and the silence spell in the pit trap in D10 grant the PCs a Will Save?

The illusionary wall should have a save DC of 16 if interacted with. The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.

Hope that helps

Jason Bulmahn
HoHR Author
Managing Editor of Dragon

Now we're talking.


concerro wrote:

This has come up before.

The benefit of the spell working this way is that if cast on a caster he is shutdown. He can't just leave the area. If you cast it on an object there is no save, but the caster can just walk away.

Quote:


Helmholtz wrote:

Shouldn't the illusory wall in D14 in HoHR and the silence spell in the pit trap in D10 grant the PCs a Will Save?

The illusionary wall should have a save DC of 16 if interacted with. The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.

Hope that helps

Jason Bulmahn
HoHR Author
Managing Editor of Dragon

interesting, why isn't this added to the actual spell description i wonder


It is in the spell description.

Quote:
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use Spell Resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and Spell Resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.

That is basically saying that no sound can pass through the emanation.

If the spell is cast on a creature it gets a will save, and if the will save is made the emanation never comes into existence. If the will save is failed or if it is cast on an object or a point in space the emanation comes into being, and once it exist those that are inside of it don't get a save.

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