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It's in Wayfinder #09, page 14.


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A question about bringing back slain gods and demigods. Some sources seem to imply that this is harder than just True Resurrection - for example, Asmodeus and the archdevils mourning Mammon, Baphomet being worried about dying in WotR, dead gods like Curchanus, Acavna, Amaznen and Aroden not being immediately raised. If it was as simple as True Resurrection, divine allies, servants thereof, or independent spellcasters looking for potential allies are rewards would quickly bring any slain god or demigod back. Yet gods can come back - Mammon's revival in a new form, or Tsukiyo's resurrection (which is interesting in that Shizuru had to recruit Qi Zhong instead of doing it herself).

Has the difficulty of bringing back gods or demigods ever been addressed anywhere? Are there rules for it?


Agreed, and I couldn't find any clarification.


Necro!

Wrecking Mysticism curse grants Ventriloquism at 5th level. Does it count as a 1st or 2nd level spell for me? What about the other spells? I'm using the wizard levels for now.


Well, she could take the Demonic Obedience feat:
1: Gift of the Moon (Sp) charm animal 3/day, summon nature’s ally II (1 fiendish wolf or 1d3 wolves only) 2/day, or beast shape I 1/day
2: Afflicted Lycanthrope (Su) You contract lycanthropy and become a werewolf (even if you normally couldn’t gain that template). If you are already a werewolf, you become a true lycanthrope. If you are already a true lycanthrope, you gain a +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution.
3: True Lycanthrope (Su) You can use your lycanthropic change shape ability as a swift action. You become a true lycanthrope if you were an afflicted lycanthrope. If you are already a true lycanthrope, you gain another +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution.

Of course, Jezelda has a nasty obedience, both impractical and counterproductive to making friends:
Under the night sky, you must offer up prayers to the moon. On nights when there is no moon, you must supplement your prayers by sacrificing an intelligent creature of your own race by tearing out its throat with your teeth and feeding on the still-warm body. Gain a +4 profane bonus on all saving throws made when the moon is visible in the night sky.


If a caster, especially a wizard, try the Loremaster PrC. 4+Int per level skill points.

Lore: At 2nd level, a loremaster adds half his level to all Knowledge skill checks and may make such checks untrained. The bonuses gained from this ability stack with those gained from Bardic Knowledge.

And a bunch of other good stuff too. It is even core!


How do oracle curses interact with prosthetics? There are several oracle curses that take the form of unhealable damage/deformities, such as burnt hands, clouded eyes, injured legs, etc. There are also now three systems for removing and replacing body parts: cybernetics, demonic implants, and the new undead grafts from Black Markets. What happens if a cursed body part is simply removed and replaced?

Do the cybernetics malfunction and grafts deform, or can you beat the curse this way? If you can beat it, do you also lose the side benefits from the curse? Or do you get hit with a different curse instead?


Another example is the psychopomp improved familiar: "A nosoi immediately leaves the service of any master who creates or permanently becomes an undead."


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Regarding the dragons, Xin-Haruka was razed by an assembly of metallic dragons, so they work together within their type at least. (AP1 pg 75, AP 66 pg 72)

Also, Ydersius is a full deity. He grants five domains: Chaos, Evil, Nobility, Scalykind, and War. That is why no mortal could fully kill him - even mythic Azlanti, who could've finished off a demigod just fine.

Serpent's Skull AP:
The Continuing the Campaign for Serpent's Skull has you drag him to Pharasma in the Boneyard and beat him again there - its the goddess of death that actually ends him.


James Risner wrote:
... In my game or in PFS games I run, you lose access to the special features of the class like "Ex-Paladin/Ex-Monk" etc...

That's the thing though - "Ex-Paladin/Ex-Monk" aren't the same thing. Monks don't lose anything. CRB 60:

"Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as
a monk but retains all monk abilities."

It works differently for different base classes, like stated in the original post.


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So, different standard classes with alignment restrictions have different things happen if you stop meeting them. For example, a cleric/paladin/druid loses all class features, a lawful barbarian loses Rage and can't take more barbarian levels but keeps other features, and a monk that becomes nonlawful keeps all abilities (even the ability to treat unarmed strikes as lawful for bypassing DR) and just can't take more monk levels.

Not all prestige classes spell out what happens though. Even leaving out classes that require divine patronage (I'm assuming those would work like clerics whether its spelled out or not), there are still many classes that are unclear.

Specifically: Agent of the Grave, Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Bellflower Tiller, Blackfire Adept, Brother of the Seal, Daivrat, Golden Legionnaire, Harrower, Inner Sea Pirate, Lantern Bearer, Magaambyan Arcanist, Pain Taster, Pit Fighter, Pure Legion Enforcer, Razmiran Priest, Red Mantis Assassin, Riftwarden, and Soul Warden.

Some of these classes require or imply membership in an organization that may (try to) expel/imprison/kill renegade members, but I'd think that would be separate from what happens to the actual class abilities.

Is this answered anywhere and I just missed it?


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There is actually an item for this: Ironmorph dust.

"This bag of powder has a sharp metallic odor. Ironmorph dust can be applied to a willing adjacent creature as a standard action, or thrown as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. On contact, it causes the target’s clothing to stiffen and harden (Reflex DC 15 negates). If the target is wearing light or no armor, his clothing is treated as chainmail for all purposes—including armor bonus, arcane spell failure chance, and armor check penalty—except weight. Exceptionally light clothing (such as a nightshirt or silks) is instead treated as a chain shirt. Exceptionally heavy clothing (such as a cold-weather outfit or elaborate ceremonial garb) is instead treated as full plate. If the target is already wearing medium or heavy armor, he instead gains DR 5/adamantine, but the maximum Dexterity bonus of his armor decreases by 3 (to a minimum of +0), and its armor check penalty increases by 3.

After 5 rounds, affected clothing returns to normal. Ironmorph dust has no effect on creatures not wearing clothing or armor.

Armor or clothing affected by ironmorph dust is effectively metal, and counts as such for abilities or classes that are restricted to certain types of armor (such as druids); however, any abilities that are suppressed or lost due to the ironmorph dust’s effects are restored at the end of the dust’s duration, instead of after their normal time limit."

And it is only 500 gold!

This supports the "Faraday cage" theory mentioned earlier. One could houserule this to also apply to forced wearing of armor (power is cancelled only as long as you wear it).


The spells Mad Hallucination from Ultimate Magic and Trail of the Rose from Faiths of Purity are listed as "School illusion (phantasm);" rather than "School illusion (phantasm) [mind-affecting];" like other phantasm spells. The PRD says "All phantasms are mind-affecting spells." I assume it is an error that these spells don't have the [mind-affecting] tag?


Skylancer4 wrote:


3) I don't see why not, you'd be spending a good amount of gold on a resurrection or raise dead spell, so it might not be worth it. See above about Stone Familiar.

Remember, replacing a witch familiar costs 500gp per witch level instead of 200gp per level for wizards (APG 69), and Raise Animal Companion is only 1000gp. If you're above level 2, raising is your best move costwise......but more than that, a witch's familiar is often a much bigger part of the character's story/life/RP than a wizard's touch spell delivery vehicle. I'd think most characters, in character, would like to get them raised - maybe even more so than other actual party members.


Gars DarkLover wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Analysis wrote:
Concerning the White Witches, Elvanna has ruled for a century and her older sister ruled before her, but she seems to be a more or less normal adult human. She is not listed as a Mythic character, and there seems to be no class abilities witches (unlike alchemists, monks, sorcerers, oracles and wizards) can take to become able not to die from old age. In case the question would come up on how these witches can live so long (and then also who else may also be using similar methods), how would you prefer to answer it?

I'd check out Reign of Winter for the answer. (I didn't develop that AP, but I assume that as part of it, Rob explains how the witches manage to stay alive for that long... Rob is off camping somewhere where it's supposedly 108 degrees today, so I can't just ask him...

...but if it were up to me, I'd explain it via the sun orchid elixir).

If I remember, the Crowned Queen is Virtually Immortal (Unaging), thanks partly to the Crown, and partly from Bloodline.

Rob did explain it, yes: Icecrown of Irrisen.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Reformatted and slightly expanded question list:

The section on one familiar teaching spells to another in the APG says "If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion."

1)What if the witch is raised after 24 hours, do the spells come back? I'd think so RAI, but RAW it is unclear.
2)Does the familiar lose its Int and special abilities after 24 hours as well? What about if it is dismissed, does it revert to a nonsapient animal if it was one originally?
3)Does the familiar retain its spells known if it is the one that dies and is brought back?

4) Regarding the Synergist witch archetype from the Familiar Folio, what happens if the witch dies while merged with her familiar? Do they both die and stay merged, separate and both die, or separate but the familiar still lives? If they stay merged, can they be raised with a single spell?


Hello, I've some questions about witches. I'm not getting much feedback in the rules forum, so I'll just ask how you would handle it as a GM.

The section on one familiar teaching spells to another in the APG says "If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion."

1)What if the witch is raised after 24 hours, do the spells come back? I'd think so RAI, but RAW it is unclear.
2)Does the familiar lose its Int and special abilities after 24 hours as well? What about if it is dismissed, does it revert to a nonsapient animal if it was one originally?
3)Does the familiar retain its spells known if it is the one that dies and is brought back?

4) Regarding the Synergist witch archetype from the Familiar Folio, what happens if the witch dies while merged with her familiar? Do they both die and stay merged, separate and both die, or separate but the familiar still lives? If they stay merged, can they be raised with a single spell?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

1) The section on one familiar teaching spells to another in the APG says "If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains
its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it
is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its
spells to another, subject to GM discretion." What if the witch is raised after 24 hours, do the spells come back? I'd think so RAI, but RAW it is unclear. Does the familiar lose its Int and special abilities after 24 hours as well? What about if it is dismissed?

2) Regarding the Synergist witch archetype from the Familiar Folio, what happens if the witch dies while merged with her familiar? Do they both die and stay merged, separate and both die, or separate but the familiar still lives? If they stay merged, can they be raised with a single spell?


I have a question about the current rules for alignment subtypes, since I know some rules have shifted over the years. The PRD says that outsiders retain alignment subtypes even if their actual alignment changes, and are affected by alignment based spells and effects as if they are both their subtype alignment and actual alignment.

There are at least two counterexamples in more recent work, however:

Serpent's Skull AP:
The insane lillend known as The Radiant Muse in the City of the Seven Spears has become CN and lost the good subtype (but still has the azata and chaotic subtypes).

Wrath of the Righteous AP:
Arueshalae has lost the evil subtype, and will get the good subtype if fully redeemed.

The Broken Soul Lillend in Bestiary 4 also had her alignment subtypes change, although as a template that is not quite the same as simply changing her worldview.

Are alignment subtypes now changed if the outsiders alignment changes, or are these exceptions to the rule, or are these errors in the APs?


Can a druid in animal form wear a Circlet of Speaking to be able to talk?
What about to use spells with verbal (but not somatic or material) components?

Circlet of Speaking


Ok, thank you! But are ioun stones merged into your form when shapeshifting, or are they still buzzing around your head?


Oh? It says "This stone grants you the Endurance feat."
Scarlet and Green Cabochon.


Can a feat granted by an item be used as a prerequisite for another feat?
Such as, a Scarlet and Green Cabochon Ioun Stone granting Endurance, allowing you to take Diehard.

Also, are ioun stones merged into your form when shapeshifting, or are they still buzzing around your head?


James Jacobs wrote:
JaC381 wrote:

I read "The River of Souls" article in Pyramid of the Sky Pharaoh, and have questions.

So fey born in the First World have souls now, not only the ones born on the Material Plane? And new souls pass through it. Does this mean the First World is no longer treated as "behind" the Material Plane, outside of the modern multiverse?

If soul energy is recycled by the Maelstrom and the Antipode, will Pharasma's end, when the last soul is judged, ever come?

What happens to the raw power of souls destroyed by daemons or other means of soul consumption? Most daemons don't appear to be drastically increasing in power as if they had absorbed it all. Is it eliminated from the multiverse, eventually draining the River of Souls dry, as the daemons seem to hope? Or does digested soulstuff merge with Abaddon, potentially still being recycled by the Maelstrom?

Does Pharasma's Spire itself get eroded by the Maelstrom, or do failed souls contribute the the end of the cycle by becoming stuck forever?

Fey have souls. If they did not, they would be very difficult to be brought back to life after death, kinda like how outsiders work. Since fey don't have those rules mechanics, the idea of them not having souls doesn't work (even though it's an interesting bit of flavor... it's not something that the rules allow/support). The relationship between the First World and souls/the soulstream is still kinda complicated, and it's not one that I'm ready to really start exploring at this point... we're working on it though.

Yes. No recycling program is eternally self-sustaining.

It's absorbed by the daemons. That's one way you get daemons with the advanced template or more HD or the like.

It's rate of Maelstrom erosion is not as great as the accretion of souls.

Okay, thanks! One question left - is the First World still 'behind' the rest of the multiverse? It has a mechanical effect - the outdated article that says fey don't have souls (in AP36) also says that since the First World is behind reality rather than within it, getting there from the Material Plane requires Gate level spells, or finding a natural breach. Can we now just use Plane Shift?


I read "The River of Souls" article in Pyramid of the Sky Pharaoh, and have questions.

So fey born in the First World have souls now, not only the ones born on the Material Plane? And new souls pass through it. Does this mean the First World is no longer treated as "behind" the Material Plane, outside of the modern multiverse?

If soul energy is recycled by the Maelstrom and the Antipode, will Pharasma's end, when the last soul is judged, ever come?

What happens to the raw power of souls destroyed by daemons or other means of soul consumption? Most daemons don't appear to be drastically increasing in power as if they had absorbed it all. Is it eliminated from the multiverse, eventually draining the River of Souls dry, as the daemons seem to hope? Or does digested soulstuff merge with Abaddon, potentially still being recycled by the Maelstrom?

Does Pharasma's Spire itself get eroded by the Maelstrom, or do failed souls contribute the the end of the cycle by becoming stuck forever?


Actually, there's an example that suggests the shield trick works. From Baba Yaga's stat block:

"Baba Yaga has permanent symbols of death (DC 36) magically inscribed on the center of her chest, between her shoulder blades, upon the crown of her head, and on the soles of her feet. Only a few great beings have knowledge of the symbols’ passwords (each symbol has its own unique phrase), and even fewer significant personalities have been attuned to the symbols."

I doubt Dear Grandmother is worried about peeping toms. This is clearly meant for use in a fight.


Artifacts & Legends says the Seven Swords of Sin are dormant unless you "restore its runelord master to active life or have some other legitimate ruler take up its master's mantle (the weapon determines what is considered legitimate)." Likewise, RotR says Karzoug's Burning Glaive "endlessly fawns over Karzoug (as it would over any rightful ruler of Shalast)".

What does it take for someone new to command these types of artifacts, besides killing the previous runelord? Do you need to be a Thassilonian specialist wizard of the appropriate type? Any wizard? Any arcane caster? Any caster? Anyone at all who can kill the old runelord?

If a nonevil creature 'became a runelord' would they be able to command the items not to inflict negative levels or attempt to dominate other wielders? Would it be safe for a nonevil champion to use such a weapon? Or are they hopelessly evil and need to be destroyed?


True Resurrection is limited to 10 years per CL. Is there any way to exceed this? Wish(es), miracle(s)? Assuming the soul is still available.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Not in Golarion, where a Cleric is defined as the spellcaster type (and is the only such spellcaster) that absolutely requires a deity.

Per the corebook? Sure. Clerics of concepts are explicitly allowed in the core game.

Oh? I only saw the corebook part. Where does it say the Golarion setting is different?


This has probably been answered somewhere before, but I can't find it, sorry. What happens if a lich's phylactery is destroyed while the lich's body is still active and intact? Is he immediately slain, or does he just lose his rejuvenation ability? If the latter, can he make a new one?

Also, regarding a previous post in this thread - if Tar-Baphon's phylactery was hidden by Urgathoa (presumably somewhere outside Gallowspire) couldn't he escape by destroying his own body and rejuvenating at his phylactery?

Finally, looking back in Mythic Realms at Tar-Baphon, I remembered you saying somewhere in this thread that the only mythic runelords were Sorshen and Xanderghul, right? How did Tar-Baphon (and potentially PCs) get mythic power at the Cenotaph if Zutha wasn't mythic himself? And Zutha's body remains in the Cenotaph ... but he also needs to hijack a new one with the Gluttonous Tome?


James Jacobs wrote:
JaC381 wrote:

I have a question about the Metamagician’s Apprentice intelligent item.

The item description says:

The bound apprentices’ intellects have no free will but retain their rebellious imaginations. Under normal circumstances, the rod must do what its wielder commands, but it can make telepathic, respectful complaints about how unhappy it is to be a group of living minds imprisoned in an inanimate object—though few wielders care. While no good creature would create a metamagician’s apprentice, he or she can still wield one.

If a metamagician’s apprentice becomes dominant after a personality conflict, it insists the wearer find a way to free its mind from the object or destroy the item so its mind can be at peace.

So the apprentice has no free will and must normally do as commanded. But it has an Ego of 20, and it states that domination is possible. Doesn't that mean the user needs to make a DC 20 Will save every day? How do I square that with "no free will"? If it can only require a Will save under certain conditions, what counts as not "normal circumstances"?

That does indeed mean exactly that. "Free will" isn't a rules term. If the rod takes you over after you fail to resist its ego, it controls you and its rebellious personality takes over. "Normal circumstances" in this case are "You haven't failed a Will save to avoid being controlled by the item."

Ok, thanks! Another question about this item, quote:

A metamagician’s apprentice knows four metamagic feats (limited to feats that use a spell slot one or two levels higher than the spell’s actual level, such as Silent Spell and Empower Spell) and acts as a greater metamagic rod for those feats. The rod can only apply one metamagic feat to a spell at a time, though (like a metamagic rod) the wielder can use his own feats and the rod’s on the same spell.

Normal metamagic rods work for three spells per day. When it says that it works as a rod for four different feats, does that mean it can apply each feat three times for a total of twelve spells per day, or it has three charges per day and you pick which feat you want those charges to use?


I have a question about the Metamagician’s Apprentice intelligent item.

The item description says:

The bound apprentices’ intellects have no free will but retain their rebellious imaginations. Under normal circumstances, the rod must do what its wielder commands, but it can make telepathic, respectful complaints about how unhappy it is to be a group of living minds imprisoned in an inanimate object—though few wielders care. While no good creature would create a metamagician’s apprentice, he or she can still wield one.

If a metamagician’s apprentice becomes dominant after a personality conflict, it insists the wearer find a way to free its mind from the object or destroy the item so its mind can be at peace.

So the apprentice has no free will and must normally do as commanded. But it has an Ego of 20, and it states that domination is possible. Doesn't that mean the user needs to make a DC 20 Will save every day? How do I square that with "no free will"? If it can only require a Will save under certain conditions, what counts as not "normal circumstances"?


James Jacobs wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Is there a Shadow reflection of the City of Absalom in the Plane of Shadow, and if so, does it also contain reflections of the Pathfinder Society and the Starstone Cathedral, or is there just a Broken Pattern within said cathedral? :)
Unrevealed. But probably not. Shadow reflections aren't exact.

Its 3.5 era, but "The Great Beyond - A Guide to the Multiverse" has a brief intro to Shadow Absalom on pages 13-14.

Population: 24,000
Type: mixed (50% fetchling, 24% Material Plane humanoid,
10% d’ziriak, 6% intelligent undead, 10% other)


Can lamias choose whether or not to use their wisdom drain attack when they touch someone? Or is it like a medusa's gaze, working whether they want it to or not?


Tequila Sunrise wrote:

I could actually wrap my head around bards in 2e, where they were basically MCed mage-thieves, without actually having to multiclass. I remember some FR novel mentioning a bard college, which could explain why all bards are musicians of some sort.

But then in 3e, bards became free-spirited spontaneous caster-rogues with a bit of cleric thrown in for good measure, I guess. But...where do bards come from? If they're trained, why are they spontaneous casters? If their spellcasting is natural, why are they all musical savants and preoccupied with random lore? Why are they the only arcane class that can heal?*

To this day, I don't get it.

*Don't get me wrong, I'm all for arcane healing, it's just weird that the bard is the only one.

Alchemist and witch are also arcane healers.


If someone with age bonuses/penalties drinks Sun Orchid Elixir, they keep the bonuses and lose the penalties. Does this also apply to someone restored to youth with the Reincarnate spell?

Let's say someone Old drinks the elixir. Do they get the bonuses from being Venerable at the same number of years alive, or do they actually have to become Venerable, meaning someone who keeps drinking the elixir before becoming Venerable never gets the bonuses?


I thought the stories behind some of the harrow cards in The Harrow Handbook were interesting. I think I read somewhere that stories for all of them have been written. Have these other stories been published or posted anywhere?


Can the axiomite Godmind grant cleric spells? The protean Speakers of the Depths? The Oinodaemon?


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Great thread! One thing that occurs to me, though, is that a lot of "monster" races have ties to evil gods or demon lords. If tieflings can be good almost anyone can be, but these types of organized efforts may attract attention from evil cults or even the demon lords themselves.


If Achaekek were destroyed, would the Red Mantis Assassin prestige class lose its powers, the way his clerics would?

What about witches, if their patron (whatever that is) is destroyed? Are witch patrons things that CAN be destroyed, or just vague concepts like a druid's nature worship? Do witch patrons have any means of withdrawing support for a witch, if she comes to work against them?


James Jacobs wrote:
JaC381 wrote:
ISG says once the Worldwound is dealt with, Iomedae wants to send the crusaders after the devils of Infernal Cheliax. How will the Order of the Godclaw (and the other Hellknight orders) react to this?
Good question! They'd likely end up having a schism and losing their Iomedae members, or the Iomedae members would convert, or the entire organizaiton would go rogue and they'd lose the Asmodeus members, or something along those lines. They would not emerge unscathed in the end.

If those crusaders include the WotR's mythic PCs, would Cheliax have anything that could do more than inconvenience them? It seems like they'd have to summon an archdevil or swarms of dukes just to match them, and I don't think Cheliax has the ability to get that much aid, do they?


ISG says once the Worldwound is dealt with, Iomedae wants to send the crusaders after the devils of Infernal Cheliax. How will the Order of the Godclaw (and the other Hellknight orders) react to this?


Claxon wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Claxon wrote:

James, as the creative directive of the setting, can you discuss why in narrative reasoning the gods keep a fairly hands off approach to Golarion? Why is their not more defific interference?

I understand that the narrative of campaigns would then become to focused on the actions of the gods, instead of mortals (like the PCs) which would ultimately make for a poor game/story for us to play. It's fine as a myth or story to read, like Zeus killing Cronus, or the gods gifting fire to man, or whatever. But for players it sucks because you feel like a bit player in the story.

But what has actually happened between deities that the don't regularly show up and kick ass.

Did they all just literally agree (with perhaps some exceptions like Rovagug) that they would not directly intervene on the material plane after eons of destructive activity of doing so?

Yeah. It's primarily for the same reason we don't have a huge number of high level, powerful, good guy NPCs. Because the job of being the heroes of Golarion is the job of the player characters. And if the gods took a more active role in protecting Golarion... then it becomes more us telling the story of the world, rather than your characters telling the story of the world.

If we were developing Golarion as a shared world for novels or video games or the like, for a genre that removes a lot of the player's control as world shaping and world-saving... perhaps we would have taken a different tack.

The Deities DO show up to kick ass... but more so in the history, not the present. So you have things like Sarenrae and Asmodeus and the others teaming up to defeat Rovaggug. Aroden coming in to defeat Deskari. Desna invading the Abyss to avenge the death of a favored worshiper. And so on. Stuff that happened in the past, not the present, where the PCs do that job.

I get all that, but why?

Is there no in setting reason to explain why the gods don't show up in person anymore? I understand ruining...

Well, Inner Sea Gods says that whatever one god wants, at least one other will want the opposite. The example given is: Iomedae would like to step in and close the Worldwound, but Lamashtu, Gorum, Nethys, and dozens of demon lords don't want her to. An actual fight, however, could destroy the whole world and still end in a draw. So they have a cold war type of thing going on, fighting through proxies.

Of course...........there are also some examples of gods not being quite as all-powerful as they like to say they are. Even ISG says, page 193, that gods can be killed not just by other gods, but also by "the will of extraordinarily powerful mortals".

Serpent's Skull and Second Darkness adventure paths:

Ydersius is a full, five-domain god. Yet the mortal Azlanti hero Savith beat him in single combat, severing his head. He didn't die, but could not heal himself without outside help to bring the pieces back together. And Savith, according to Inner Sea Combat, was only 20/6. The PCs of Serpent's Skull are then able to beat him again, after his worshipers finally revive him, and in the continuing the campaign section, it states that they can completely kill him with some more work. So one 20/6 mythic hero can cripple a full, five domain deity in single combat, and a party of nonmythic 20s can finish him off.

Lamashtu stole her divinity by luring the god Curchanus (Desna's mentor) into a trap and ripping his domain of beasts from him. At this point Lamashtu was still just a demon lord - a stattable being within the ability of mythic PCs to kill. So, a creature that could have been killed by PCs was able to kill a god.

Then there were the Azlanti gods Acavna and Amaznen. Earthfall, brought about by non-divine, stattable aboleths, ended both of them with one shot. Acavna tried to block it with the moon, and failed outright, dying in the process. Amaznen then had to sacrifice himself with a spell, just to blunt Earthfall's effects. This may not have been the aboleth's intent, exactly, but it shows that the forces required to slay gods can be found by mortal magic. And as the Second Darkness adventure path shows, this was not a singular event that only the aboleths could have caused. One lvl 17 nonmythic drow, with some guidance from a stattable demon lord, had the capacity to replicate it - and so do many other people. Abraxas doesn't even care that the PCs stopped the plot, the knowledge has been rereleased into the world.

Finally, there is the death of Aroden. We don't know how he died - but it happened exactly when he was supposed to leave his divine realm and come to Golarion again. This is probably not a coincidence.

It seems showing up on the Material Plane is actually pretty risky for a god.


James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:

I saw your secret message in the wrath of the righteous aventure path.so

when will we be getting this demon lord redeeming Adventure Path
When I decide the time is right.

I missed it. Could you please point out where the message is?


James Jacobs wrote:
Heretik61 wrote:

Hi James, I have a few questions about how common certain monsters are.

1. Compared to the chromatic and metallic dragons, how common are the other true dragons (primal, imperial, outer)?

2. Are all creatures in the bestiaries published by Paizo assumed to exist in the Inner Sea setting to some degree?

3. Are some monsters more common than others and, if so, how is that determined?

And, a bit of a side question here:

4. What souls eventually become aeons?

1) Depends on the region. In the elemental planes, primal dragons are most common. In outer space, the outer ones are. On Tian Xia, the imperial ones are.

2) Nope. Most, but not all.

3) It's determined by us deciding in house more or less on an ad hoc personal preference, mostly guided by MY personal preference.

4) Neutral ones.

4) I think Heretik meant, as opposed to the neutral ones that become psychopomps, or the neutral ones that get reincarnated, or the neutral ones that stay in the Spirelands, etc.


James Jacobs wrote:
Drock11 wrote:
Do qlippoths and daemons ever work together as their goals seem to match up pretty well other than qlippoths still want themselves left instead of total nihilism. Well there is the whole daemons being involved in the creation of demons incident, which might be a sticky issue between them, but qlippoths can't blame the entirety of daemon kind for what one member did can they?
Not on a mass scale. Maybe now and then on a small scale, but not for long and not often. Both races more or less want to get rid of each other anyway. They don't play well together.

What about qlippoths and asuras? The qlippoth predate the gods, so asuras shouldn't hate them for being divine creations.

Daemons also want to get rid of Urgathoa and Zyphus, eventually. Why do those gods work with them and accept realms in Abbadon? It has to be a trap of some kind. Do they think the daemons will never get to the point where they will be ready to turn on them?

Are there plans to do more with asuras in the future? I'd really like some more stories of divine screw-ups, hopefully naming specific gods of Golarion rather than the anonymous gods in the Bestiary.


Is there a way to prevent Rakshasa souls from reincarnating, other than destroying the soul? Can a Rakshasa soul be destroyed in the same ways normal ones can be (the ways in the Book of the Damned, for example)? If so, is doing that still an evil act, and does Pharasma still care about it?


James Jacobs wrote:
JaC381 wrote:

If Nethys is omniscient, what does he use burleevs (from ISG) for?

How far does Nethys' "all seeing eye" go towards seeing the secrets of other gods, like Asmodeus' Catafalque and Norgorber's true identity?

As for Norgorber, has he really "wiped knowledge of his past from even the memories of the other gods, becoming an enigma to all"? It seems like affecting the older gods of the multiverse would be beyond a newly ascended god.

ISG says "Iomedae steadfastly believes Norgorber has evaded justice for far too long, and thinks the dark god was somehow involved in the death of Aroden." What reason does she have to think this? Is she planning on acting on this at some point?

The deities are not omniscient. They're powerful, but not all-powerful. And the minions in Inner Sea Gods aren't so much for the deities to use as much as they are for worshipers to use via lesser planar ally spells.

His "all seeing eye" doesn't see all when it comes to other deities, but sees a lot. What it sees we'll reveal if and when the time is right.

And as god of secrets, Norgorber's power in that realm IS quite potent, despite the fact that he's newly ascended. Divine power is more complex than that.

As for Iomedae's reasons for believing Norgorber had something to do with Aroden's death... she hasn't revealed what she knows, which means she knows it's circumstantial at best, probably not much more than a guess or a hunch. Things like that are great elements to tie into huge campaigns or adventure path plots... for now, she's biding her time.

Oooh, are you planning on doing a campaign like this? :) Or is it just a seed for GMs to homebrew? Sounds like something that could start a divine war if its proven - fun!


Are all 4-domain gods like Gyronna and Alazhra really "just" demigods, on about the same level as demon lords/empyreal lords, like Ahriman is? Or is it more complicated than that and some of them are still unstatable/unfightable?


If Nethys is omniscient, what does he use burleevs (from ISG) for?

How far does Nethys' "all seeing eye" go towards seeing the secrets of other gods, like Asmodeus' Catafalque and Norgorber's true identity?

As for Norgorber, has he really "wiped knowledge of his past from even the memories of the other gods, becoming an enigma to all"? It seems like affecting the older gods of the multiverse would be beyond a newly ascended god.

ISG says "Iomedae steadfastly believes Norgorber has evaded justice for far too long, and thinks the dark god was somehow involved in the death of Aroden." What reason does she have to think this? Is she planning on acting on this at some point?

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