Prestige Class alignment reqs


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So, different standard classes with alignment restrictions have different things happen if you stop meeting them. For example, a cleric/paladin/druid loses all class features, a lawful barbarian loses Rage and can't take more barbarian levels but keeps other features, and a monk that becomes nonlawful keeps all abilities (even the ability to treat unarmed strikes as lawful for bypassing DR) and just can't take more monk levels.

Not all prestige classes spell out what happens though. Even leaving out classes that require divine patronage (I'm assuming those would work like clerics whether its spelled out or not), there are still many classes that are unclear.

Specifically: Agent of the Grave, Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Bellflower Tiller, Blackfire Adept, Brother of the Seal, Daivrat, Golden Legionnaire, Harrower, Inner Sea Pirate, Lantern Bearer, Magaambyan Arcanist, Pain Taster, Pit Fighter, Pure Legion Enforcer, Razmiran Priest, Red Mantis Assassin, Riftwarden, and Soul Warden.

Some of these classes require or imply membership in an organization that may (try to) expel/imprison/kill renegade members, but I'd think that would be separate from what happens to the actual class abilities.

Is this answered anywhere and I just missed it?


No, at the very minimum it's presumable you would lose access to gaining more levels.

Beyond that, it's unclear if you would lose any class features. It would be the purview of the GM. It's not explicitly stated anywhere, but I would reserve the right as a GM to remove class features as I felt appropriate.


Unless a given PrC spells out what happens when you change alignments, nothing happens based on your alignment. Now, some might become difficult to continue in based on alignment changes due to other factors (becoming non-lawful as a Hellknight just isn't going to help your cause; Red Mantis Assassins also come to mind). But best thing to do is look at a given PrC and unless it says something, assume changing alignment won't cost you class features (maybe your life, if you're that nonlawful Hellknight....).


If your alignment no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, you will suffer all the normal effects of failing to meet a prerequisite.

Normally, this means you lose access to whatever feature you were qualifying for, unless specific and overriding rules are given (as is frequently done for alignment). I believe there is a special provision for prestige classes which allows you to keep a few things like your BAB, saves, and character level. Otherwise, you lose all features.


Just did a quick search. The following quote is from the 3.5 D&D FAQ.

While Pathfinder is certainly a different system at this point, I don't believe any specific guidance has been given on this topic.

Quote:

What happens when an assassin becomes non-evil?

A character who no longer meets the requirements of his prestige class not only can’t advance any further in that class, but he also “loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class.” (CW 16) You retain Hit Dice (and the hit points derived from), base attack bonus, and base save bonuses granted by the prestige class.

So your repentant assassin would lose his sneak attack, death attack, poison use, save bonus against poison, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and hide in plain sight class features, as well as his assassin spellcasting and any weapon and armor proficiencies gained from the class. He’d keep the skill ranks he bought with his assassin levels, as well as the hit points, base attack, and base save bonuses gained from those class levels. He also couldn’t gain any more assassin levels until his alignment returned to evil (at which point he’d also regain the various features he lost when his alignment changed to non-evil).

If my character becomes an assassin, then later changes his alignment from evil to neutral, can he still use the skills he learned as an assassin?

A character who no longer meets the requirements of his prestige class not only can’t advance any further in that class, but he also “loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class,” (CW 16). You retain Hit Dice (and the hit points derived from those Hit Dice), base attack bonus, and base save bonuses granted by the prestige class.

The rules don’t specifically list skill points (and class skills) as falling into either category; the Sage recommends that the character retain these functions even if he no longer meets the class requirements. So your repentant assassin would lose his sneak attack, death attack, poison use, save bonus against poison, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and hide in plain sight class features, as well as his assassin spell casting and any weapon and armor proficiencies gained from the class. He’d keep the skill ranks he bought with his assassin levels, as well as the hit points, base attack, and base save bonuses gained from the class levels. He also couldn’t gain any more assassin levels until his alignment returned to evil (at which point he’d also regain the various features he lost when his alignment changed to non-evil).


This comes up every so often, and they have yet to give an "official" response. Unless you are asking for PFS, you are best off asking your GM how they want to run it.

Silver Crusade

This is one of those questions with no specific answer, basically adjusted by DM.

I have been DM for an Assasin, started as a LE rogue, became assasin and was defeated by a Good aligned character, because of his background he realized that the reason why que was "Evil" was not real (classic charade from the BBEG), I gave him the option to become neutral and he took it.
He was offered jail time + redemption for his previews actions quests, but in the end after a few in-game years as captive, he was free.
I never actually saw the reason why he should lose all his class features, there is no deity involved or anything like that, just the physical, mental and skill related training to become an Assasin.

But that is just my opinion, and the small experience i have is with this assasin, the rest dont know.

gL


Alignment is really the itchy red blanket that seems to gum up the works and make difficult what should be very simple. In the campaigns my wife and I play and run, we don't include alignment at all. Just leave it blank on the character sheet, unless you really wanna live your life like that.
This makes things so much easier.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

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Ask your DM.

In my game or in PFS games I run, you lose access to the special features of the class like "Ex-Paladin/Ex-Monk" etc. You lost a pre-req to a PrC. Losing pre-reqs to base classes and to feats lose you access to the class or feat. There is no reasonable assumption to assume that nothing happens when you lose access to a pre-req for a PrC.


James Risner wrote:
... In my game or in PFS games I run, you lose access to the special features of the class like "Ex-Paladin/Ex-Monk" etc...

That's the thing though - "Ex-Paladin/Ex-Monk" aren't the same thing. Monks don't lose anything. CRB 60:

"Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as
a monk but retains all monk abilities."

It works differently for different base classes, like stated in the original post.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

JaC381 wrote:
Monks don't lose anything. CRB 60:

Which only means the monk has a rule that limits what they lose. Otherwise they would lose more.


At our table you lose access to class abilities that are Su or SL unless the class says otherwise.

You keep skills, Ex abilities and so forth.

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