How can i gain an absurd amount of skill points?


Advice


I just want to know everything.

Scarab Sages

Human Rogue with 20 int and FCB in skills.


Play something that has a lot of skill ranks per level and build it with a lot of int.

I warn you however, that it wont be very effective.

Most classes that have a good use for int also only get 2 skill ranks per level.

The most effective build is probably an empiricist investigator.


The Occultist is an Int based caster with a base of six skill points a level. From there, look into divination. Oh yes, make sure that you are human and take skill points for your favored class bonus.


Claxon wrote:

Play something that has a lot of skill ranks per level and build it with a lot of int.

I warn you however, that it wont be very effective.

Most classes that have a good use for int also only get 2 skill ranks per level.

The most effective build is probably an empiricist investigator.

Don't forget to add 2 levels of Mindchemist Alchemist (for Double Intelligence on Knowledge Skills and Cognatogen) with VMC Bard (for Bardic Knowledge).

Also Skill Ranks are great but also look at Breadth of Experience, as a +2 to all Knowledge and Profession checks is virtually worth more than Skilled (which caps at +20 Skill Ranks)

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Bard.

Seriously.

You get +1/2 level on all knowledge skills. Huge. 70 virtual skill points.

You get versatile performance, which turns your 6 skill points/level into effectively 14/level.

Human for racial bonus, FCB for +1/level, high Int, go to town.

==Aelryinth


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Add in Headband of Vast Intelligence +6.

Find some way to gain an inherent bonus to intelligence. Both methods that I can think of involve 3rd party products:

1) Take the Eldritch Heritage line of feats to acquire the Aboleth sorcerer bloodline from Kobold Press. This will give you +2 at 11th level, +4 at 15th level, and +6 at 19th level if you have a charisma of 13+, at a cost of three feats. If you have a charisma of 15+, you can get that last boost at 17th level instead of 19th.

2) Become an Oracle with either the Lore mystery or the Enlightened Philosopher archetype so that you can select the Mental Acuity revelation at 7th level -- this gives you +1 to intelligence at that level and every 3 levels thereafter. Of course, since the Oracle is a charisma based caster, this approach is impractical without the 3rd party feat Spell Finesse (which lets you change your spellcasting stat).

Alternatively, if you want to have really high Knowledge bonuses, you could become a Bard (either standard or VMC) to add half your level to all your checks as well as select feats that boost Knowledge. Various feats such as Breadth of Experience (practical only for an Elf) can also help here. This approach will help with "knowing everything" even without a lot of skill points -- a single point in each skill and making all knowledge skills while focusing on intelligence can give you some really nice Knowledge skill bonuses.

Dark Archive

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A Wish can a +1 inherent bonus to a single stat. 5 in succession (or the magic books made with Wish) can give up to 5 per stat.


Ranger/Wizard/Rogue has all skills as class skills. You could try bard for jack of all trades.

Silver Crusade

Agree with Aelrynth. Bards get less ranks than rogues, but Versatile Performance and Bardic Knowledge means you can use them for more.

I've got a gnome prankster bard with 14 int, started with 19 charisma, and took Skill Focus: Perform (Comedy) and Breadth of Experience. At level 5, he effectively has +10 or higher in 18 or 19 different skills. Since he uses Perform: Comedy for Bluff and Intimidate, he's close to +20 at those (don't remember the exact bonus off the top of my head, but it lets him demoralize enemies REALLY well in battle), and he has at least +10 in every knowledge skill.

If you're more focused on knowledge than social skills, you should similarly go bard, but make your int higher than your charisma.


If your GM allows 3rd party material, there's the Open Minded feat. It's from the psionics books, but it doesn't require you to be psionic.

Also ask about the background skills option from unchained. It gives you two skill points per level that can be used for many different skills.


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Aelryinth wrote:

Bard.

Seriously.

You get +1/2 level on all knowledge skills. Huge. 70 virtual skill points.

You get versatile performance, which turns your 6 skill points/level into effectively 14/level.

Human for racial bonus, FCB for +1/level, high Int, go to town.

==Aelryinth

Catfolk bard. Your favored class bonus is +1/2 level on all knowledge skills. That's effective +5 skill points/level, which is much more powerful than the human bonus and choice of skill, which can give up to +2 skill points/level. Plus, it lets you push your knowledge skill bonus to 2x level instead of 1.5x level.


If a caster, especially a wizard, try the Loremaster PrC. 4+Int per level skill points.

Lore: At 2nd level, a loremaster adds half his level to all Knowledge skill checks and may make such checks untrained. The bonuses gained from this ability stack with those gained from Bardic Knowledge.

And a bunch of other good stuff too. It is even core!

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

To maximize Knowledge skills:

An elf bard with high Intelligence, plus Breadth of Experience to get +2 to all Knowledges. Also, worship Irori, and take Divine Obedience for a whopping +4 to all Knowledges as well. If it's a low-level campaign, Dilettante is good for another +2 if you don't go over 5 ranks in a Knowledge.

So with Breadth and Deific Obedience and 20 Int at level 3, you can have +17 on all Knowledges.


You definitely need to go bard, for the ability to lie and the universe makes it true. Specifically, you want:

Pageant of the Peacock wrote:
and may attempt a Bluff check in place of an Intelligence check or Intelligence-based skill check.


Investigator is a pretty good choice


Don't forget about magic items. You can craft addition abilities onto items you've already got, and by doing that (especially for rings), you can get quite a few additional points in various skills.


An elven bard of 100 years of age with breadth of knowledge, bardic knowledge, 18+INt, and diletante plus 5skillranks would cover everything knowledge wise and still have plenty of skills. If you want to be more single attribute based a Loracle is a superior choice and is a full caster. For just plain max skill points there isn't anything better than a human or half orc rogue with 20 intelligence. I've done the math however an the math says that a bard is the skill monkey king by a big margin. Bardic knowledge adds up to being worth more than most classes get over 20 levels. My personal favorite compromise to this is going inquisitor or cloistered cleric. Inquisitor is A better combatant than bard and the cleric is a great supporter in full casting but has bardic knowledge


Fromper wrote:

Agree with Aelrynth. Bards get less ranks than rogues, but Versatile Performance and Bardic Knowledge means you can use them for more.

I've got a gnome prankster bard with 14 int, started with 19 charisma, and took Skill Focus: Perform (Comedy) and Breadth of Experience. At level 5, he effectively has +10 or higher in 18 or 19 different skills. Since he uses Perform: Comedy for Bluff and Intimidate, he's close to +20 at those (don't remember the exact bonus off the top of my head, but it lets him demoralize enemies REALLY well in battle), and he has at least +10 in every knowledge skill.

If you're more focused on knowledge than social skills, you should similarly go bard, but make your int higher than your charisma.

It depends on which race you are talking about. Anything that has Knowledge(All) could potentially be rocking a +17 roll (Int 18 1 point invested) if you are a human. At that point if you really are aiming for knowledge skills alone it really doesn't matter how many skill points you need because well you only need 1 invested into a skill. It only works if you swap out Human's skilled for Comprehensive Education but still its a pretty nifty switch.


Aelryinth wrote:

Bard.

Seriously.

You get +1/2 level on all knowledge skills. Huge. 70 virtual skill points.

You get versatile performance, which turns your 6 skill points/level into effectively 14/level.

Human for racial bonus, FCB for +1/level, high Int, go to town.

==Aelryinth

This. But with 100% more Pageant of the Peacock.


RainyDayNinja wrote:

To maximize Knowledge skills:

An elf bard with high Intelligence, plus Breadth of Experience to get +2 to all Knowledges. Also, worship Irori, and take Divine Obedience for a whopping +4 to all Knowledges as well. If it's a low-level campaign, Dilettante is good for another +2 if you don't go over 5 ranks in a Knowledge.

So with Breadth and Deific Obedience and 20 Int at level 3, you can have +17 on all Knowledges.

Supporting this and all other shout outs to the bard.

If you go full throttle on the knowledge skills, there are some archetypes that work really well with it. Archivist comes to mind.


Is there any utility to Bard/Loremaster?


I'm curious how the Investigator stacks up to the Bard. An Empiricist with Amazing Inspiration, Expanded Inspiration, and Underworld Inspiration gets:

-Intelligence modifier to Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device checks, and anything towards gathering information.
- An average 4.5 bonus to: Spellcraft, all Knowledge Rolls, Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive, plus Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Intimidate, or Sleight of Hand.

At certain levels that bonus would probably outweigh Bardic Knowledge, and it might potentially match up well to that and Versatile Performance. I doubt anything can touch Pageant of the Peacock though.


Play a catfolk bard with a one level dip into oracle of lore can get you CHA to knowledge skills and spend a couple of feats for extra revelations to get focused trance for a +20 circumstance bonus usable a number of times per day equal to your CHA modifier. Think on it would give you the ability to reattempt a failed knowedge check with a +10 competence bonus. The rest of the levels go straight to bard with the favored class bonus. By 20th this will allow you to get well over a hundred on a knowledge skill once a day.

Silver Crusade

Here is an example of a build i would go for if trying to make a skillful character. I just threw this together in herolab to demonstrate, have not fleshed it out or optimized it for anything but skills. This is with the Cognatogen in play, ALL profession skills are able to be made untrained at +11.

Unnamed Hero
Male half-elf alchemist (mindchemist) 3/evangelist 7/investigator (empiricist) 2
LN Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +36
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 15, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +3 Dex, +2 dodge, +2 natural)
hp 104 (12d8+41)
Fort +8, Ref +13, Will +7; +6 bonus vs. poison
Resist poison resistance
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged bomb +12 (5d6+10 Fire)
Special Attacks bomb 19/day (5d6+10 fire, DC 24)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +10)
3/day—identify
Alchemist (Mindchemist) Extracts Prepared (CL 9th; concentration +19)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +12)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 5, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 30, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +8; CMB +5; CMD 20 (25 vs. grapple)

Feats Alertness, Breadth Of Experience[APG], Brew Potion, Deific Obedience, Fast Learner[ARG], Improved Improvisation[ARG], Improvisation[ARG], Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion]), Throw Anything

Traits student of philosophy

Skills Acrobatics +23, Appraise +18, Bluff +6, Climb +8, Craft (alchemy) +32 (+43 to create alchemical items, +43 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +13 (+25 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma)), Disable Device +32, Disguise +6, Escape Artist +31, Fly +18, Handle Animal +6, Heal +9, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +40, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +34, Knowledge (engineering) +34, Knowledge (geography) +34, Knowledge (history) +36, Knowledge (local) +36, Knowledge (nature) +34, Knowledge (nobility) +34, Knowledge (planes) +34, Knowledge (religion) +47, Linguistics +25, Perception +36, Perform (act) +6, Profession (architect) +11, Ride +16, Sense Motive +29, Sleight of Hand +11, Spellcraft +25, Stealth +23, Survival +9 (+21 when tracking), Swim +5, Use Magic Device +25; Racial Modifiers +2 Knowledge (history), +2 Knowledge (local), +2 Perception, ceaseless observation

Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Boggard, Catfolk, Celestial, Common, D'ziriak, Daemonic, Dark Folk, Dwarven, Elven, Garuda, Gnome, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Jandelayan, Protean, Senzar, Shae, Sylvan, Terran

SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +11), cognatogen, discovery (tumor familiar[UM]), elf blood, identify 3/day, inevitable fist, inspiration (11/day), perfect recall, sophisticate, swift alchemy, trapfinding +1

Combat Gear cognatogen[UM]; Other Gear +1 amorphous burdenless jousting shadow slick mithral chain shirt, belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), boots of elvenkind, cauldron of brewing[APG], headband of vast intelligence +4, lenses of detection, ring of serene contortions, vest of escape, alchemist's lab, masterwork thieves' tools, 45,950 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +11 (Su) +11 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bomb 5d6+10 (19/day, DC 24) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 5d6+10 fire damage.
Cauldron of brewing (empty) A cauldron of brewing looks like a fine cooking pot with four stout legs. The cauldron is capable of heating any liquid placed in it to a precise temperature (anywhere from just above room temperature to hot enough to boil salt water) and maintaining it indefinitely while still remaining only slightly warm to the touch on the outside. A cauldron of brewing provides a +5 competence bonus on Craft (alchemy) skill checks.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, trained in Craft (Alchemy); Cost 1,500 gp
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+12)
Cognatogen (DC 24) (Su) At 1st level, a mindchemist learns how to create a cognatogen, as per the cognatogen discovery.
This ability replaces the mutagen class ability (a mindchemist cannot create mutagens unless he selects mutagen* as a discovery).
Deific Obedience Purify yourself daily to prove devotion to a deity and gain benefits.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +3 to Climb checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Identify 3/day (Sp) 3/day use identify as a spell like ability.
Inevitable Fist (12/day) (Su) Unarmed attacks do damage as one size larger and gain axiomatic quality.
Inspiration (+1d6, 11/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Lenses of detection +5 to track with Survival
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Perfect Recall At 2nd level, a mindchemist has honed his memory. When making a Knowledge check, he may add his Intelligence bonus on the check a second time. Thus, a mindchemist with 5 ranks in Knowledge (history) and a +2 Intelligence bonus has a total skill bonus
Poison Resistance +2 (Ex) +6 to save vs. Poison.
Ring of serene contortions Create the sound of a peaceful chime, small gong, or temple bell at will.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Sophisticate +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (history, local) and can use untrained
Speak with Animals (Ex) Your familiar can communicate with animals similar to itself.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Student of Philosophy Use Int instead of Cha for Diplomacy checks to persuade others and Bluff checks to lie.
Swift Alchemy (Ex) You can construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.


A loremaster wizard is actually quite good at this. Maxing the hell out of int gives you quite a bit of skill points, by taking the bard VMC you get bardic knowledge (twice for every loremaster level) and one versatile performance. You should easily get at least twelve ranks for every loremaster level and get more out of bardic knowledge. And there are a lot of traits and feats that take cha based skills and turn them to int based. The only places where the wiz falls short are the versatile performances and the class skills, but more than makes up for it by being a better PC than an int maxed bard.


You might be interested in the trait Forbidden Knowledge, which allows you to roll a Knowledge (history) or Knowledge (religion) check "any time you would roll a Knowledge (planes) check." That will free skill points for other uses.

If you like the idea of playing a Bard and are interested in social skills, Persuasive Performer can allow you to substitute any Perform skill for Diplomacy once you get Versatile Performance.

A Possessed Shaman eventually gets 7 skill points a level, one of which you can move around each day. The Lore or Ancestor spirits have access to hexes that change the attribute governing knowledge checks from Intelligence to Wisdom. Lore also gives a +10 bonus to all Knowledge, Spellcraft, and Linguistics checks, but only at level 16, which is beyond the scope of most games.

A Psychic with the Enlightened discipline from Occult Origins can roll knowledge checks twice, while one with the Rebirth discipline gains Bardic Knowledge. Since Psychics cast off Intelligence, you should have a decent skill point count and a high bonus.


Everyone keeps on saying human...but half orcs are technically better.

There is the skilled alternate class racial trait, which trades out dark vision for +1 skill rank per level, and then there is the human raised alternate racial trait, which trades out ferocity and racial weapons in return for the human skilled racial trait.

So yes, it is silly, but they can get +2 skill ranks per level, since they have two entirely separate racial traits that they can take at the same time.

That, the floating +2, and the ability to grab any human options makes them just slightly better at this.


I'm going to go against the grain and suggest half-orc.

Assuming that d20pfsrd is correct on these, and there's no rule saying that they don't stack, take these two racial traits:
Human-Raised: Some half-orcs raised as humans lack their cousins' ferocity and training in orc weapons, but pick up a bit of their human parents' skills. They gain the human's skilled racial trait. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity and weapon familiarity. Source PCS:ISR
Skilled: Second- and third-generation half-orcs often favor their human heritage more than their orc heritage. Half-orcs with this trait gain 1 additional skill rank per level. This racial trait replaces darkvision.

With the FCB of +1 skill point per level, you are looking at +3 skill points/level. At first level, with a 20 on int and as a rogue, you'd have 16 skill points.

But that may not be legal, so... :)

NINJA'D!


Okay then. If the Catfolk racial trait is good for Bard (I haven't done the math, but let's say it really is better than rogue), with the above half orc, take racial heritage: Catfolk and be a bard instead.

At 10th level, you'd get a +10 to all knowledge checks, as well as the above +2/level. If Fast Learner does give a choice of two from hp/sp/alternative bonus (I know some GMs allow this), then you can get the extra skill point as well. But that, also, may not be entirely legal.


@haremlord: A developer (Mark Seifter) said its the intent that they don't stack unfortunately. Same named ability and you can only have each ability named once.

Mark Seifter wrote:

The human-raised alternate racial trait specifically gives you the skilled racial trait as its benefit. Both of these are the skilled racial trait (Advanced Race Guide page 226), and you can't have the same racial trait twice unless stated otherwise (as per Advanced Race Guide page 220).

EDIT: Also incidentally for Kerney, who mentioned PFS, I believe that the ISR one isn't PFS-legal.


Not advice for gaining Skill points but for bonuses.

If you multiclass enough into enough classes, then just about every skill becomes a class skill, and you will get a +3 by taking 1 rank in it.

There are many magic items that grant bonuses to skill checks: Mask of the Stony Demeanor gives a +10 to Bluff Checks, Boots of Elvenkind grants a +5 to Acrobatics Checks. The Crafting Cauldron also grants a +5 to Alchemy Checks. There are lots of cracked and flawed Ioun Stones that grant bonuses to all kinds of skill checks very cheaply.

The Exchange

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Meanwhile I thought of this, at the same time.

It's quite coincidental that these happen together.


The GM let me know that we can make are our own "races" with 11 RP points and 20 stat points to spend. And wisdom or dexterity can be used to hit for ranged attacks.

So I was thinking definitely VMC Bard.
Kitune trickster/ninja/underground chemist 2 levels.= some cha based skills changed to int based skills. Ninja for vanish trick. UG chemist for splash weapon int bonus.

2 investigator empiricalist for again changing some of the skills over to int, and inspiration.

Then mindchymist for the rest. So...lots of bombs and skills :)

What do you all think ?


Oh, I thought this was a hypothetical. Well, I'm not well versed in these classes, but I do know how to work your int around for skills.
Traits:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/student-of-philosophy
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bruising-intellect
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/clever-wordplay
These traits are great, but my favorite route is being a human, taking the Focused Study alternate racial trait for skill focus(linguistics) and then take http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/orator.

Dark Archive

I had a PC once play goblin rogue. Due to high dexterity, skill points, and size bonuses, I've stopped rolling perception for the NPC's when he makes a stealth check.


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Not advice for gaining Skill points but for bonuses.

If you multiclass enough into enough classes, then just about every skill becomes a class skill, and you will get a +3 by taking 1 rank in it.

Investigator and Ranger will give you every skill in class except Fly. There might be a pairing that gets them all, but Investigator is a good base class for lots of skills to start with.

Dark Archive

some races gain class skills. Kobolds have an alternate racial trait that gives them diplomacy and perform as class skills.


I think Heroes of the Wild was the one that added a "Fey Thoughts" alt racial trait for a number of core races that gives a couple skills as class skills. The choices were pretty good, too.


Athos710 wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Not advice for gaining Skill points but for bonuses.

If you multiclass enough into enough classes, then just about every skill becomes a class skill, and you will get a +3 by taking 1 rank in it.

Investigator and Ranger will give you every skill in class except Fly. There might be a pairing that gets them all, but Investigator is a good base class for lots of skills to start with.

That's all right, take a level in a 3rd class that does give you Fly: Arcanist is nice: I love that Dimensionsl Hop thing. Alchemist is nice, and it has a decent Skill number. And it is a VERY good choice if you want a huge bag of tricks the way the OP seems to want. The Extract Alchemal Allocation basically lets the Alchemist cast any spell off any spell list from levels 1-3, any spell that can be found in Potion form, anyway.


David knott 242 wrote:

Add in Headband of Vast Intelligence +6.

Find some way to gain an inherent bonus to intelligence. Both methods that I can think of involve 3rd party products:

1) Take the Eldritch Heritage line of feats to acquire the Aboleth sorcerer bloodline from Kobold Press. This will give you +2 at 11th level, +4 at 15th level, and +6 at 19th level if you have a charisma of 13+, at a cost of three feats. If you have a charisma of 15+, you can get that last boost at 17th level instead of 19th.

2) Become an Oracle with either the Lore mystery or the Enlightened Philosopher archetype so that you can select the Mental Acuity revelation at 7th level -- this gives you +1 to intelligence at that level and every 3 levels thereafter. Of course, since the Oracle is a charisma based caster, this approach is impractical without the 3rd party feat Spell Finesse (which lets you change your spellcasting stat).

Alternatively, if you want to have really high Knowledge bonuses, you could become a Bard (either standard or VMC) to add half your level to all your checks as well as select feats that boost Knowledge. Various feats such as Breadth of Experience (practical only for an Elf) can also help here. This approach will help with "knowing everything" even without a lot of skill points -- a single point in each skill and making all knowledge skills while focusing on intelligence can give you some really nice Knowledge skill bonuses.

3rd party but the Riddle mystery offers Inspired Mind which is almost identical to Mental Accuity, but has an untyped bonus. So they should stack.


Hrmmm.....a Half-Orc can grab two different skilled racial traits if you use both Advanced Race Guide and Inner Sea Races. So that's +2 skill points per level.

The Finding Haleen trait will give you an extra one.

And like some people suggest, you could be a bard and take racial heritage catfolk and grab their FCB.

You got to get as close as that 35 effective max skill ranks as possible.

Catfolk bard FCB gets you 10
Half orc with the trait gets you 3
Bard will get you 6

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