Player Core 2 Preview: The Oracle, Remastered

Wednesday, July 10, 2024

I see it in the flickering of my monitor. I hear it in the cawing of the seagulls fighting over a bagel outside my window. I smell it in my coffee from down the street (not the coffee from up the street—the coffee from the other street, or the coffee from the corner; this is Seattle, after all). For the oracle, coming in Pathfinder Player Core 2, is Remastered.

Oracles are divine spellcasters who draw their power not from prayer or devotion to a deity, but from a firsthand connection to the great mysteries of the universe. This connection is a double-edged sword, though, as gazing too deeply into these mysteries results in terrible backlash in the form of a divine curse. While this unique relationship with the divine and its “power at a price” theme offer strong and appealing roleplaying hooks that are very Golarion (what is the role of an oracle in a world where prophecy is lost?), the original oracle was often thought of as intimidatingly complex or as a class that made the player jump through hoops to unlock its potential. The Remastered oracle has been changed in ways both large and small to reduce its complexity and pain points, while still allowing players who want to risk fate to draw upon their curse to gain power.

The big change: instead of an oracle’s curse giving them a large suite of abilities, some of which are buffs, some of which are debuffs, and some of which might go either way, the oracle’s curse now just strictly debuffs the player. We’ve done it—no, no, no, come back; I promise this made the class stronger!

The iconic oracle, Korakai, fends off a giant squid with his Remastered magical power.

Art by Christoph Peters.


Because the classic oracle’s curses boosted some stats while lowering others, it could be unclear whether being cursed was a benefit you were trying to get ASAP or a price you had to strategically work around. In the Remaster, they’re always a price, which lets us significantly dial up the power that you get for paying it and keeps the trade-off simple to understand: “Cheat the rules of creation for power, and you get cursed.” The new oracle’s cursebound trait appears not on their focus spells, but instead on specific feats and other actions that have a notable advantage over similarly leveled feats, like cheating the action economy, letting you automatically learn about your target without a skill check, or other similar benefits. Each mystery grants a cursebound ability at level 1 to let them draw on this power, like Foretell Harm.

Foretell Harm [free-action] — Feat 1

Cursebound, Divine, Oracle
Frequency Once per round
Requirements Your previous action was to Cast a non-cantrip Spell that dealt damage.

Your magic echoes ominously as you glimpse injury in the target’s future. At the beginning of your target’s next turn, it takes damage equal to twice the triggering spell’s rank as a seemingly random and minor misfortune finds it. The damage and type of misfortune is of a type matching the spell; for instance, if you dealt fire damage, a flame might spontaneously ignite on them or they might burn a hand on their torch. The target is then temporarily immune to Foretell Harm for 24 hours.

However, whenever you use a cursebound ability, your cursebound condition increases in value. This is a unique condition that appears only in the oracle class. As your cursebound condition increases, the deleterious effects of your curse increase as well, like giving you a penalty to certain saving throws or a weakness to certain damage types. Like the classic oracle, the remastered oracle can tolerate higher and higher cursebound values as they increase in level, letting them use more cursebound abilities.

While most of these curse effects are relatively simple, we do know that a lot of oracle players enjoyed the more disruptive curse effects that could really throw variety into your battle. We’ve kept many of these as cursebound feats, like Meddling Futures (where sprits vie for control over your body) or Thousand Visions (where visions of the future grant you great perception within a short range, but overwhelm your senses beyond it), which are now selectable by any mystery. Now, oracle players who want to opt into this complexity can do so, and oracles who want more straightforward benefits can keep it simple.


Other Changes

We’ve also made several smaller changes throughout the oracle! In no particular order:

  • We’ve made it easier to tailor your oracle's spell list to your mystery. Each mystery now grants three thematic spells to an oracle’s repertoire, and all oracles automatically gain a divine access class feature about halfway through their career that lets them expand this list further.
  • We’ve doubled the number of available domains for oracles who want to harness domain magic. All mysteries now grant four related domains—now your battle oracle might gain the destruction domain, or your cosmos oracle the star domain!
  • We’ve added dashes of ominous, portentous, delirious flavor throughout the class to really make you feel like you’re channeling otherworldly powers.
  • With more streamlined mysteries and curses, we had room to add a greater number of unique oracle feats, a thing that was often cited as lacking in the classic oracle. Take a look at a unique feat for ancestors or battle oracles: The Dead Walk!

The Dead Walk [two-actions] — Feat 10

Cursebound, Divine, Oracle
Prerequisites ancestors or battle mystery

You beseech warrior spirits to come forth and aid you. Two ghostly warriors manifest within a 30-foot emanation of you and each attempt a Strike against an adjacent enemy, using your spell attack modifier, and then disappear. The warriors’ Strikes each deal 4d6 spirit damage, and the warriors can flank with one another and with you and your allies. If you are cursebound 2 when you use The Dead Walk, you instead summon three warriors, and if you are cursebound 3, you instead summon four warriors. The warriors disappear at the start of your next turn.

We’re getting close to the release of Player Core 2, with ancestries, archetypes, and more, so be sure to subscribe to the Rulebook line, pre-order the book, or make a note to swing by our booth at Gen Con to check things out—and keep an eye on the future for the last of our Remaster class previews!

James Case (he/him)
Lead Developer, Rules and Lore

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
151 to 166 of 166 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

YuriP wrote:
That's probably not what will happen.

If my memory serves me well, PFS1 never removed the pre Unchained classes, with the exception of the Summoner who got massively nerfed. So I don't see what the point would be to force a new chassis if you don't like it, especially when the class has been buffed.


_shredder_ wrote:

Legacy ancestors oracle was quite objectively one of the worst subclasses in the system, but it was also probably the mechanically most fun build I ever played here. I loved going all in on the curse and letting the ancestors decide how my character plays every turn. My big hope was that remaster would keep everything that was so incredibly cool and unique about ancestors oracle and its playstyle while making the passive benefits stronger.

From what it looks like the exact opposite happened - all the flavorful ancestor mechanics are gone, and ancestor will now play very similar to other oracles and divine sorcs, while still being not all that good due to getting one of more punishing curses.

While legacy ancestors oracle wasn't perfectly designed, it did an amazing job at making me actually feel like my character is possessed by their ancestors. Mechanics and flavor worked perfectly together. I don't care that the mystery is probably stronger on average now, having as many slots as a sorcerer and becoming clumsy after using a strong spell like ability has just nothing to do with what made ancestors oracle appealing to me in any way.

The old "roll 1d4 and see what you're this round" still exists but as a cursebound feat.

So, if you liked that flavour, you can still do it.

It's just that objectively it was bad to leave it as a chance what to do each round, so I don't think many will be picking said feat.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
shroudb wrote:
_shredder_ wrote:

Legacy ancestors oracle was quite objectively one of the worst subclasses in the system, but it was also probably the mechanically most fun build I ever played here. I loved going all in on the curse and letting the ancestors decide how my character plays every turn. My big hope was that remaster would keep everything that was so incredibly cool and unique about ancestors oracle and its playstyle while making the passive benefits stronger.

From what it looks like the exact opposite happened - all the flavorful ancestor mechanics are gone, and ancestor will now play very similar to other oracles and divine sorcs, while still being not all that good due to getting one of more punishing curses.

While legacy ancestors oracle wasn't perfectly designed, it did an amazing job at making me actually feel like my character is possessed by their ancestors. Mechanics and flavor worked perfectly together. I don't care that the mystery is probably stronger on average now, having as many slots as a sorcerer and becoming clumsy after using a strong spell like ability has just nothing to do with what made ancestors oracle appealing to me in any way.

The old "roll 1d4 and see what you're this round" still exists but as a cursebound feat.

So, if you liked that flavour, you can still do it.

It's just that objectively it was bad to leave it as a chance what to do each round, so I don't think many will be picking said feat.

The cursebound feat meddling futures is absolutely terrible (especially compared to other powerful cursebound feats) and even more punishing and less rewarding than the ancestors curse was, and you have to use it every turn if you want that flavorful mechanic instead of it just being an always on thing that gives you passive benefits, which is extremely restricting and makes the class way more repetitive. My previous ancestors oracle also used a bow to strike when possesed by a warrior ancestor, and becoming clumsier ever round completely kills that type of build - if you want to hit anything with strikes while cursed you need to use melee weapons and prioritize STR now (and enter melee combat with ridiculously bad AC due to clumsy).

An ancestors oracle that picks up one of the many good oracle feats instead of meddling futures, never makes weapon strikes, never interacts with the ancestors mechanic and mostly plays like a normal divine caster with a strong damage focus spell (ancestral touch got a big buff) is absolutely not weak and much stronger than the ancestor oracle I played, but that's just not very interesting to me.

An ancestors oracle who plays fully into the curse and rolls dice to decide which action to take this turn (like the oracle I loved playing) is even weaker than it was before and went from "really not good but you can kinda make it work if you try" to an absolutely awful option.


_shredder_ wrote:
shroudb wrote:
_shredder_ wrote:

Legacy ancestors oracle was quite objectively one of the worst subclasses in the system, but it was also probably the mechanically most fun build I ever played here. I loved going all in on the curse and letting the ancestors decide how my character plays every turn. My big hope was that remaster would keep everything that was so incredibly cool and unique about ancestors oracle and its playstyle while making the passive benefits stronger.

From what it looks like the exact opposite happened - all the flavorful ancestor mechanics are gone, and ancestor will now play very similar to other oracles and divine sorcs, while still being not all that good due to getting one of more punishing curses.

While legacy ancestors oracle wasn't perfectly designed, it did an amazing job at making me actually feel like my character is possessed by their ancestors. Mechanics and flavor worked perfectly together. I don't care that the mystery is probably stronger on average now, having as many slots as a sorcerer and becoming clumsy after using a strong spell like ability has just nothing to do with what made ancestors oracle appealing to me in any way.

The old "roll 1d4 and see what you're this round" still exists but as a cursebound feat.

So, if you liked that flavour, you can still do it.

It's just that objectively it was bad to leave it as a chance what to do each round, so I don't think many will be picking said feat.

The cursebound feat meddling futures is absolutely terrible (especially compared to other powerful cursebound feats) and even more punishing and less rewarding than the ancestors curse was, and you have to use it every turn if you want that flavorful mechanic instead of it just being an always on thing that gives you passive benefits, which is extremely restricting and makes the class way more repetitive. My previous ancestors oracle also used a bow to strike when possesed by a warrior ancestor, and becoming clumsier ever round completely...

I know it's bad, I even said so in the post you're quoating.

But it's not like it was good before.

The "flavor" part is unchainged though, that's why I said that if you just wanted it for flavor, it's there (but you should probably skip it for the other, actually strong, cursebound feats).

Scarab Sages

SuperBidi wrote:
YuriP wrote:
That's probably not what will happen.
If my memory serves me well, PFS1 never removed the pre Unchained classes, with the exception of the Summoner who got massively nerfed. So I don't see what the point would be to force a new chassis if you don't like it, especially when the class has been buffed.

The way things worked for PC1 was that you could keep your existing chassis, but you don’t get to rebuild. So a Wizard could stay a preremaster Wizard, but didn’t get to rebuild anything else. Specific spells or feats that were updated had to use the new text, but if the name was changed, you could keep the old version.

EDIT: They separately errata’s the old spells to change the damage and remove the attribute bonus. So while a Wizard can still use Ray of Frost, its damage did change.

Translating that to Oracle, you could remain a Battle Mystery Oracle. You would still get your Mystery Benefit and your Curse would still work the same, since those are part of the chassis. If you have any Oracle feats that were changed, you would have to use the new version.
I don’t know what it means for Call to Arms if that has the same name in the remaster.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
YuriP wrote:
That's probably not what will happen.
If my memory serves me well, PFS1 never removed the pre Unchained classes, with the exception of the Summoner who got massively nerfed. So I don't see what the point would be to force a new chassis if you don't like it, especially when the class has been buffed.

The way things worked for PC1 was that you could keep your existing chassis, but you don’t get to rebuild. So a Wizard could stay a preremaster Wizard, but didn’t get to rebuild anything else. Specific spells or feats that were updated had to use the new text, but if the name was changed, you could keep the old version.

EDIT: They separately errata’s the old spells to change the damage and remove the attribute bonus. So while a Wizard can still use Ray of Frost, its damage did change.

Translating that to Oracle, you could remain a Battle Mystery Oracle. You would still get your Mystery Benefit and your Curse would still work the same, since those are part of the chassis. If you have any Oracle feats that were changed, you would have to use the new version.
I don’t know what it means for Call to Arms if that has the same name in the remaster.

The problem with that policy is many of the APG Oracle feats were printed under the same name with the new cursebound mechanics, which would be incompatible with the old chassis.


4 Spell slots = nice

Some of the feats also sound nice. RIP to Battle & Ancestors Mystery though. And in general, I feel like Oracle lost A LOT Of flavour all around. Very generic with boring curses for most cases right now.

And what do you guys think of the new Life Oracle? Currently playing a Life Oracle as the party's main healer / support, and those remastered changes sound... bad. Sure, it may be a buff on the long run - but no more extra HP? A cantrip that only works against undead / void healing targets? No more D12s for heals? I admit the new feat heals sound cool, but overall I feel like the flavour for Life Oracle got substantially nerfed.

Scarab Sages

Captain Morgan wrote:
The problem with that policy is many of the APG Oracle feats were printed under the same name with the new cursebound mechanics, which would be incompatible with the old chassis.

Yeah, they’ll probably have to add something specific for those situations, like they did for Wizard and Spell Schools. This is a bigger change than that, for sure. But I don’t think they are going to rule that for Oracle only you can’t keep playing your existing character.

I don’t know if I was clear in my post that all future characters need to be built on the new chassis. So it’s just a question of figuring out how to handle existing characters. They’ve seemed pretty committed to not requiring you to update if you don’t want to, so I’m confident they’ll figure something out.


Captain Morgan wrote:
The problem with that policy is many of the APG Oracle feats were printed under the same name with the new cursebound mechanics, which would be incompatible with the old chassis.

The new Cursebound mechanics can be use as is with the old Cursebound mechanics. There are still 4 stages of curse. So that'll be easy to indicate.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
The problem with that policy is many of the APG Oracle feats were printed under the same name with the new cursebound mechanics, which would be incompatible with the old chassis.
The new Cursebound mechanics can be use as is with the old Cursebound mechanics. There are still 4 stages of curse. So that'll be easy to indicate.

That's a very interesting point.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm not a fan of "curses are purely negative" either. Like this probably makes the class easier to understand, but it was fun when there was a push-pull within the curse.

Like Cassandra's curse was not that people would not believe her, it was that she could also actually see the future.

Seeing the future was a divine gift given to Cassandra.

And then she made the god angry and he cursed her that no one would believe her.

Radiant Oath

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm not a fan of "curses are purely negative" either. Like this probably makes the class easier to understand, but it was fun when there was a push-pull within the curse.

Like Cassandra's curse was not that people would not believe her, it was that she could also actually see the future.

Seeing the future was a divine gift given to Cassandra.

And then she made the god angry and he cursed her that no one would believe her.

Right, same with Tiresias (depending on which version of his/her story you read).


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
The problem with that policy is many of the APG Oracle feats were printed under the same name with the new cursebound mechanics, which would be incompatible with the old chassis.
The new Cursebound mechanics can be use as is with the old Cursebound mechanics. There are still 4 stages of curse. So that'll be easy to indicate.

Honestly, the old Ancestors Oracle combined with the new Cursebound Feats would be so fun. I really wish they had just kept the old mysteries and paired them with the new cursebound feat mechanics.


I've been playing an Oracle of Lore in PFS and I love getting to the point in the curse where he starts getting automatic knowledge checks every turn. When I can't get any more info on the creatures, I just start asking the GM about other random items in the room.

Do I understand correctly, that in PFS we will be forced to use the new mystery/curse rules because it is a character option that has the same name but new rules?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would wait for the information from PFS leadership. If it follows the pattern of other classes, you don’t have to update your class chassis, and the curse should be part of the class chassis. If there is a feat or a spell that has the same name, then you would need to use the new feat or spell. But things that are part of the class chassis only have to be used if you rebuild the character with the free remaster rebuild.

The changes to cursebound might require more specific rulings, but we don’t know what those are yet.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

We do now!

151 to 166 of 166 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Player Core 2 Preview: The Oracle, Remastered All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.