Hey everyone, things are going slow from my end, and I have been lacking the stamina to kickstart us again. There is the possibility of a new job with new/different responsibilities on the horizon, so I am taking some time to dedicate myself to it. On top of everything I had an unexpected family trip through mid last week - busy, busy, busy.
RPG wise, I have been revisiting bits and pieces of:
Swords & Wizardry - think I will set up a one-shot or three for my 'live' TTRPG group, a few pregens, Lost Lands, and GO! Start the journey through the ages with the closest/playable/readable thing to 0e/AD&D.
OSE - seems like the logical next step in the journey. I have gotten the two main Tomes some time back, so have been slowly perusing them;
Shadowdark - I am amazed at how easy it is to create a character via shadowdarklings.net in less then a minute. They come out with really some interesting, albeit simplified features, and ready to go! Also some variety in there, from one character to another. Not a big fan of the light and carousing mechanics, and have been wondering if you actually need to incorporate those in the game. Planning on running a game for this eventually.
5e - started ACTUALLY reading the Players Handbook. It is still a great game system in my opinion. I really need to give it a whirl.
Now I go check the Gameplay. How has everyone else been doing?
EDIT: Posted!
BTW I was talking about me as a player taking 10-minutes to go back and find the in-game post not Darcy. Sorry for the mix-up.
I got it. And this is the last I'll comment about this. Keeping Player and character knowledge is important to me, and I'll try not to use player knowledge to take actions in character. At the same time in this instance the character had knowledge that wasn't readily available to the Player in my opinion. But like you said it's your game, so I'll play it your way.
I hope you're not seeing this as an adversarial post. I'm not upset in any way, but sometimes the written word doesn't evoke the intended emotion. I think that our shared passion for the game will only enrich the experience once we get on the same page. :-)
No worries, no worries. Not an adversarial post at all - we should keep the dialogue channel open to make this an interesting experience for all.
I know sometimes it is in the nature of a character to be a loner, or silent, or aloof, or distracted, or distant. So I throw info/clues/hints/hooks at you all, in the hopes some of it will be interesting for the players and also for the characters regardless of their personality, but I may not hit all the marks (and I don't have to - that is why this is a game played with a group), so I expect you all to also do some of the lifting, and find ways for your character to engage with the game/environment/NPCs/whatever you want to come up with.
I have an extremely hard time railroading players, and that probably shows because sometimes some railroading is necessary and I take too long to realize it. I have always gotten used to be a 'what do you boys and girls want to do?' kind of DM, and that is usually where I am 'coming from' - the world is there, adventures are there, monsters and allies are there, stuff is there, now what do you want to do with it?
Also PbP is a medium where we tend to try and 'speed things up' for the sake of keeping the game alive and moving. This can be a good thing, but also a bad one, because sometimes it feels we are rushing things along when no rushing is needed. I do understand the extreme importance of keeping the pace in a PbP game though. But there are also some things I as a DM (and as a player), find important and motivating when I am reading player's posts. And the most important for me is:
- Posts should/need to acknowledge what has happened before. If you are pressed for time, and heck I know I am, it would be more important to me that you the player take the time to read the thread, understand what is going on, and then post a simple one or two liner in narrative mode ('My character goes with A, B or C and keeps an eye out for any chickens carrying vinegar'). I would prefer this than a long winded post which does not acknowledge what has passed before, what others have done or said. This is one of my main pet peeves in PbP, and really demotivating as a DM when it happens.
This is the 'big one', but I have some others (like I guess we all do) - keeping player and character knowledge separated is how I think it should be done by the way, so if you know something no problem in writing it down (like saying you are going to look for Jaline's house if you already have a clue where it is, and get some vinegar), but if you don't then you need to ask someone/find out first. Making posts that move the game forward are fine by me, but I like the use of conditionals ('Does Darcy know where Jaline's house is? If yes, then she will go there to get some vinegar, if not she will ask the group where it is located), since it makes the DMs job easier. Hmmmm what else? Even if the post does not move things forward, it is fine, but it should (apart from acknowledging what is going on) give us an idea of what is going on with the character. Helaman did this many times for Woyzeck (both not moving the action, because Woy was more of a 'follower, but posting kind of what was going through his mind and what he was doing), and it worked very well.
There's more, but this post is already too long. Just wanted to give you an idea of what to expect from me as a DM, what gets me inspired/motivated, and what can make me want to 'kill' the game.
All good stuff OSGMO :)
For my side I'm focussing on kicking off my Warhammer game (first post just up!) and finishing prep for my Castles & Crusades version of Night Below (just fine tuning the pantheon of the setting and the intro adventure).
I've not progressed my replacement character to Sly as creative energies have been elsewhere, so might just observe from the sidelines for a while.
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I forgot to add Castles&Crusades to the list above :)
Haven't been reading on it, but it is on the list - heard so many good things about it I am curious to see it in play. I also like how the Ranger is different from what I am used the Ranger to be - I guess it is more akin to its 'old school' self. Might be going that way class-wise.
Night Below. Man, I am looking forward to that one. What a Classic!
Yeah not set up the Campaign thread yet, will post it here when I do :)
@Helaman - if you meant the Warhammer game, this is the LINK
Thanks
My bad mate!
I'll be heading out on a camping trip later today. No internet access available so unable to post. Bot Lewill as necessary .
I will return on Sunday.
@Calhoun: Am I dreaming, or is your character still in Olde Swords Reign format?
OK...for some reason he was not updated here but I had on HeroLab?? Anyway, he is now updated to PF1e
So Almery hasn’t been a trove of information, or at least doesn’t appear to be a strong lead. Talus is all for waiting out Rayne, but we have other options.
Ok, so here is what Father Almery said a little later: when Darcy asked:
"So Father. This slab is obviously from ancient times. Have there been any other signs of this kind of stuff around here. You've been here like a hundred years... so you must have seen something. Or maybe you know some presumed crazy person who speaks of such things".
"Well, I guess we do have our share of oddities" - Almery pondered - "You have all those items people keep finding in their fields... But it has become also common belief that some sort of battle must have taken place around here in ancient times, which would account for that"- he shrugged - "I collect some of those, as you can see" - pointing towards a corner of the cellar.
So, I guess we could check out the two headed cows, bent swords and other strange occurences the yokels mentioned in the Pebble.
Almery also mentioned Cud and Dimburt, the sheriff’s deputies, who we could question in case they remember something about Rayne.
Or, and this is my least favorite option, we go to Troye or somewhere else to do further, deeper research. But I feel like we are in Grimmsgate, and should stay here.
There are a couple of thoughts I have here:
1) It is possible there is a hidden entrance to a dungeon/prison in the Church leading to this ancient evil. However I suspect it is far too dangerous (i. e. higher level) for us to tackle.
2) Talking with the deputies would tip off Rayne even further so I vote against that. Yanissa seems a safer person to interrogate. If we need to leave the Church, why not hire those kids that assist Father Almery to watch out for strangers? They shouldn't draw any alarm I think.
3) the rumors we heard may be just red herrings, I think.
4) Leaving Grimmsgate would NOT be a good idea. Rayne could waltz right into the Church then.
1: I don’t really believe in meta-concepts like “higher level”. Or at least, Talus doesn’t! If it’s there, we should find it…
2: Agreed, talking to Cud and Dimbert might tip off Rayne, but it’s not as though we don’t wish to find Rayne - by all means tip him off if it brings him out. As a player I feel Yanissa is a dead lead, and given the…unpleasantness that ensued after a meeting at her gate the last time I’m not sure she’ll speak to anyone.
Hiring locals kids is a good idea, however Talus isn’t keen on leaving the stone at all currently, figuring that Rayne will return to it.
3: Red herrings or not, something needs to give. We might learn more information from the locals or actually find something that provides further intelligence. Still problematic given Talus doesn’t want to leave the stone.
4: Well, my player-meta thought is that we are in Grimmsgate for a reason…so leaving would be a retrograde step…
I can see you have several different courses of action before you - now it is only a matter of choosing one, and moving along. Go!
Hey gang, should I call the game off?
I can feel the participation is at an all time low, and that is a clear sign the game is failing, so to speak.
So let me know your thoughts on whether I should pull the plug on this or not.
I'd like to keep going... but the problem is we've switched game systems a couple of times, lost characters, and quite frankly need a little nudging on what to do. Darcy tried to push things along a bit but seemed to be derailing the story, so she backed off.
It's probably very obvious what we need to do next... but for some reason we're not finding it. It's frustrating to want to move forward, but not really have an idea of how to do so.
I'd like to keep going... but the problem is we've switched game systems a couple of times, lost characters, and quite frankly need a little nudging on what to do. Darcy tried to push things along a bit but seemed to be derailing the story, so she backed off.
This right here might be one of the issues we are having - there is no derailing 'the story'. There is no 'story' for you to follow. There are several things happening at the same time. You just need to decide what would interest your character and why, and follow it. And trust the DM will make it somehow interesting or captivating.
Heck, you could just say - 'I don't know anything about the stone - I will copy the text and go back to my mentor, and ask him' - for me it is all part of the game, and you are not ruining 'the story' by doing that. The story is the one your characters tell, not me, and not a prewritten adventure.
The other issue I am seeing in this game is the fact there are frequent IC and OOC discussions about avenues of action, but then when the time comes for decisive action - to go somewhere, to talk to someone, etc, things just fizzle. Some are more decisive, like Talus. But in general it is rare that someone makes a post saying - 'I do this' or 'I go there looking for A, B, or C'
You are in doubt if there is anything else, any more clues to be found about whatever the stone means in the temple/church grounds? Good. But what are you going to DO about it?
You drill the father, and go through the relics but find nothing there? Good. What are you going to do next?
You think it is remotely possible, but improbable the two headed calf can be related to all this? Good. What are you going to do about it?
You think it may be worth it to talk to Yanissa again? Good. But what are you going to do about it?
You think Father Almery is hiding something? Has an hidden agenda? Good. What are you going to do about it?
You wonder what really happened with Arwulf, Woyzeck and Sly? If they discovered anything when you got separated? Good. What are you going to do about it?
Maybe the deputies know something, since they might be in cahoots with the sheriff? Good. what are you going to do about it?
I mean... I could go on and on and on just with examples taken from your (the player's) posts. Ideas which you guys simply do not follow up on. And I am certain you can come up with a million more. The game will never move forward if the posts trickle at the rate of one or two per week from several of the players, and they are usually not posts which move the game forward, they are just considerations about things you could or maybe would do.
Hope I am not sounding (too) crass or aggressive, and if I am I apologize right away. That is not my intention. I just want to get the point across that the game/story is what you make of it. Whatever it might be, in Grimmsgate, outside Grimmsgate, giving up on the whole crappy village, traveling the wilds, going on a wild goose chase, raising chicken, anything really.
Well I am willing to stick around for this game. It may be helpful to set a posting time limit for the players to avoid the game stalling out. You can assume the other (non-posting) players are tagging along for the ride...at least until combat starts!
I too would like to stick around and play...just as Darcy said I got a little derailed when changing characters as well as the murder of the sheriff (which, dont get me wrong, was awesome!!). Maybe just a little re-boot or push to get us going again is needed.
I'm here for the game.
Talus is waiting for Jasson to return with *some* food. From there he might cook some chappattis, clean his talon-like fingernails with a knife and generally lie in wait.
Talus still likes the deputies as a source of information. ;)
It is probably also something to consider that as far as I can tell only a few days have passed since the original members of the party arrived. So it isn't as if nothing has happened. Far from it.
I took want to stick in.
I was contemplating this very issue, to railroad or not to railroad, box text vs no box text (figuratively speaking) when it comes to PBP games.
I’ve seen real life tt rpgs stall out in this situation, let alone pbp games.
Open world is good but sometimes stuff needs to happen. At a table top game it’s easier to lean across the table and tell the players go and make something out of what’s been given them. Exactly what you did here, so kudos, but it PBP that moment might be delayed.
These days running games I tend to have a philosophy…
a) the game would moves even if the players don’t, meaning the underlying issue or protagonist is moving towards resolution no matter what the players do. I may soften an edge or consequence of that but I am giving them hints both IC and OOC of that fact.
The campaign that I really succeeded in that principle was The Haunting of Harrowstone. The game plot was set on a timer and the villagers and events (augmented by stealing some great ideas off these forums) were headed in one direction, players were a little confused for a session or so then caught on increasingly.
b) a screen writing principle, iirc, was if the writer didn’t know what to do, was have someone throw a punch. Yes we should be adults about owning our part in the story, but definitely with PBP we need a push and an emerging drama (not necessarily a punch) if things stall.
All that said, message received.
I took want to stick in.
I was contemplating this very issue, to railroad or not to railroad, box text vs no box text (figuratively speaking) when it comes to PBP games.
I’ve seen real life tt rpgs stall out in this situation, let alone pbp games.
Open world is good but sometimes stuff needs to happen. At a table top game it’s easier to lean across the table and tell the players go and make something out of what’s been given them. Exactly what you did here, so kudos, but it PBP that moment might be delayed.
These days running games I tend to have a philosophy…
a) the game would moves even if the players don’t, meaning the underlying issue or protagonist is moving towards resolution no matter what the players do. I may soften an edge or consequence of that but I am giving them hints both IC and OOC of that fact.
The campaign that I really succeeded in that principle was The Haunting of Harrowstone. The game plot was set on a timer and the villagers and events (augmented by stealing some great ideas off these forums) were headed in one direction, players were a little confused for a session or so then caught on increasingly.
Truth be told, we are still on the second day after your arrival in Grimmsgate. But even so, things are happening in the background. You can be sure of it ;)
…
b) a screen writing principle, iirc, was if the writer didn’t know what to do, was have someone throw a punch. Yes we should be adults about owning our part in the story, but definitely with PBP we need a push and an emerging drama (not necessarily a punch) if things stall.
All that said, message received.
Or, as I said in this thread in November to quote Raymond Chandler: “When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand”.
So I would say Obermind that it does go both ways. If we *seem* to be stalling, or indecisive, or just flailing, throw in something to shake things up and force us to act.
Remember, sometime we aren’t stalling or being indecisive or even flailing around, but the intercession of a seemingly “random” event or idea (in this case, a GM-side action) pretty much maps to my vision of real life anyway. My advice would be for you to just keep the story going, no matter what we are doing. Life happens to people, not the other way around. Except when it does.
And yes, sometimes people flail. Heavily.
Well, like I said, I am keeping the story going.
All I am saying here is even if your characters did not know what to do next about this conundrum, their lives would go on, and they would not sit around waiting for the next plot advancement event to take place, would they?* So what would they do? Would they leave? Would they seek advice somewhere else? Would they give up? Would they seek employment around Grimmsgate? Would they run for office and become sheriffs of Grimmsgate? Would they fund an Adventuring Company and hire out as bodyguards for eventual caravans? All these are valid actions that you can take.
*(or maybe they would, so you can tell me - we are going to 'give it some time' and wait around for two days)
But thank you all for the feedback, and loud and clear on the 'man coming through the door with a gun'
Well, when Talus was handing out his last coppers to Jossan, it did occur to me that he will definitely need to do *something* as he is out of funds. Much like Arwulf was.
All I am saying here is even if your characters did not know what to do next about this conundrum, their lives would go on, and they would not sit around waiting for the next plot advancement event to take place, would they?* So what would they do? Would they leave? Would they seek advice somewhere else? Would they give up? Would they seek employment around Grimmsgate? Would they run for office and become sheriffs of Grimmsgate? Would they fund an Adventuring Company and hire out as bodyguards for eventual caravans? All these are valid actions that you can take.[/i]
Sly would run for office. Poacher turned gamekeeper :)
What’s the go on the 2 headed cow rumour?
As far as I am aware, you are going to check the jail first with Darcy?
Sly would run for office. Poacher turned gamekeeper :)
All I am saying here is even if your characters did not know what to do next about this conundrum, their lives would go on, and they would not sit around waiting for the next plot advancement event to take place, would they?* So what would they do? Would they leave? Would they seek advice somewhere else? Would they give up? Would they seek employment around Grimmsgate? Would they run for office and become sheriffs of Grimmsgate? Would they fund an Adventuring Company and hire out as bodyguards for eventual caravans? All these are valid actions that you can take.[/i]
And he might win :D
What’s the go on the 2 headed cow rumour?
Apparently it belongs to a farmer possibly named Ulruch. Though it might be Bron. Or Garrick. My money's on Ulruch. He also found a bent sword. Perhaps his farm is the site of a mystical battle leaching out Chaos that mutates cows. Or something.;)
Actually that’s not bad for ideas…
What’s the go on the 2 headed cow rumour?Apparently it belongs to a farmer possibly named Ulruch. Though it might be Bron. Or Garrick. My money's on Ulruch. He also found a bent sword. Perhaps his farm is the site of a mystical battle leaching out Chaos that mutates cows. Or something.;)
And warping the judgement of assassins, honest scoundrels... I like it :) Sly may yet get off the hook lol.
"Exhibit A m'lud. This strange stone is the source of all ills. My poor client, while obnoxious, is not a murderous man. He merely ran with the wrong crowd and the stone... pulled him into the Abyss. There's not a day goes by where he does not regret the untimely passing of the Shire-reeve..."
@OSGMO: AM sure he'd find ways to run unopposed :S
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Me! Me! Me!
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Interested!! ;)
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Not me! Not me!
@Helaman: I have been thinking - where did you get the idea for the super simple maneuvers in combat from? I am thinking of running an OSE game and planning on introducing/stealing some of those to make combat more interesting (as OSW once pointed out).
Yep, and there is a link in the “Additional Reading” list that goes to the original article.
From the looks of it there are a few options for when you declare you want to instigate a combat maneuver:
1: Declare intent before you roll to hit
2: Declare intent after you hit, but before you roll damage
3: Declare intent after you hit and have rolled damage
I kinda lean towards the first option, but I’d probably need experience with the system to get more than theorycraft opinions….
Thanks gents! I will have a read.
Hi all. Just wondering what we can do to move things along. We started asking and doing things, and we seem to hit dead end after dead end. At some time, we need to be led to something important as we're going places and doing things, but nothing is happening.
Perhaps if we hit a dead end, you can naturally move us to the next incident, so we don't spend weeks moving from one person to another trying to do something.
I'm enjoying the game and the characters, but we seem to be spinning our wheels and going nowhere.
I'm open on what we can do as players to advance the plot???
I will try Darcy.