Good Old Days! (Private) (Inactive)

Game Master Edeldhur

Hey everyone and welcome to the continued Discussion for our Old School gaming.
First of all, thank you for accepting the invitation - I think this group offers all the opportunities to engage in an entertaining and challenging game!

A recap of what brought us here:

- The interest thread started out as 'Delving into OSR with classic / older D&D Modules', but by the end of it had changed a bit, depending on whether you consider AD&D2e OSR or not;
- In any case, the plan remained the same = finding an 'adequate' system which allows me to DM 'older/classic' D&D modules, without having to burn my eyelashes doing conversions;
- In the end, and even though I am still interested in (eventually) running a S&W game, I drifted onto AD&D2e/For Gold and Glory as the most likely option for this endeavor (not repeating the reasons, they can be found here).

I have been going over the rulebook, and deciding if I want to just give it a try 'as is', or add some houserules off the bat (we are not creating characters yet, so please do not go into a rolling rampage :D).

These are currently under consideration (compiled from several different sources):

Character Creation
- I am between two options = 4d6 drop lowest in order vs. Rolling three sets of 3d6 in order, and choosing one. Also thinking you can roll, or I can. Let me know if you have any preference;
- Removing ability and race requirements from individual classes, but keep the XP bonus for high main stat;
- We are keeping racial restrictions on multiclass combos;
- First level HP: Either roll two and take higher, or maxHP;

Miscellaneous
- I am on the fence regarding Dual-Class, and will leave it up to you guys. I like the concept, just not sure how well it works out. I would still probably make Human a requirement for this one maybe. In any case it should not be relevant for now;
- We will use Combat and Non-Combat skills from For Gold & Glory (I am thinking this can be used as reference and inspiration);
- We will use basic encumbrance;
- Infravision is heat based. So you cannot read with it;
- Group initiative unless surprise is really important for someone. Would also like to give Weapon speeds a try, see how it goes;
- Firing into melee has a -3 penalty. And if you roll a 1 you hit your ally;
- I don't think there are critical hits/miss in AD&D2e. Do you guys want them? If yes, my suggestion would be max damage instead of 2x damage on a 20, and miss next attack if you roll a 1. For magical attacks, we would have to come up with something interesting;
- I am considering the inclusion of a 'Perception' stat of sorts = Perception+Wis/2. Because really, anyone can hear noises, right? :D Just don't want to shortchange Rogues on this. TBD.

(once there is a clear decision on everything, I will produce a 'Character Creation Basics' blurb as a reference)
----------------------------

A few last notes: There is an 'experimental' side to all of this - I am choosing AD&D2e because I feel like it fits the bill, and can be easily molded to run old D&D, while still providing an interesting enough framework to build characters and play with. However, it has been MANY years since I played AD&D2e, and nothing insures this will be the perfect fit throughout. So I am counting on you to have some flexibility (as will I) as we move along, and understand this is not a closed environment - we can/should make modifications if we believe them necessary. And if after some time we come to the conclusion AD&D2e is not the right option for this purpose, or we are not enjoying the experiment... Heck! We can try something else!

Now let me know your thoughts about it all, if you are still interested, etc ;)

Thanks for the invite!

Looks like fun. See comments below
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These are currently under consideration (compiled from several different sources):

Character Creation
Sounds good to me. Either stat generation method is fine

Miscellaneous
I think dual class for humans only is fine.
Always wanted to try weapon speeds too.
Critical hits & misses yes. Max damage is fine.
Perception stat is worth a try. It can be changed later if needed.

Overall it sounds like fun! Let’s give it a go!

rolling rampage suspended :(

Likewise, thank you for the invitation.

My thoughts:

Character Creation
- I'm fine with whichever stat rolling method you like. The very fact that there's some randomization makes it more interesting.
- First level HP: I prefer Max HP, but good either way.

Miscellaneous

- Weapon speeds can be quirky, as our group used them when we played Arms Law back in the day. Could be fun.

- I like the crit system you propose.

- Honestly, the very fact that this is mostly an experiment and lots of things are in flux while you set it up makes it feel a lot like a real tabletop game. Our group transitioned our "Big" characters from 2nd to 3.0 and it felt exactly like this. :D

Like Smiles, I will also cry a little inside at the lack of opportunity to be rampaging with rolls at this point.

Beyond all that? Sounds great!

Ahoy! Checking in for now. It's 330am Sydney (work time) so I'll jump back later.

Thanks for the invite:

Character Creation::
- Rolling three sets of 3d6 in order, and choosing one.
- First level HP: roll two and take higher.
All else OK.

Miscellaneous:
- Dual Class for humans only.
- Weapon speeds OK.
- Crits: max damage, miss on a 1.
- No Perception skill.
All else OK.

Sounds great! I can break out my 2nd edition character generator!! It is an amazing program and lets a DM do all sorts of things...do you have a copy?

All your points seem fine to me as well.

Hmmmmmm no. I don’t think I have iit :O

What is it called?

My 2 coppers.

I'd like 4d6. Sure we can play a fighter with 14 strength, for example, but damn if it won't be a hard slog. A lot of the TSR stuff (B series in particular) would assume fighters would have SOME bonus. With 4d6 I might well end up with said fighter but it increases the odds in my favour a little.

Human only dual class for sure.
Max hp level 1... roll after.
Crits: max damage, miss on a 1 Is cool
Perception is a weird gamey mechanic. Unsure on that.

You are a poop for twisting my arm and making me play!

Ok, just for real now:

4d6 stats is my vote. Max hp 1st level (I hate you bloody rangers with your million first level HP) and roll afterwards. Maybe reroll 1s… ;)

Everything else seems fine except I will always dislike the -3 to fire into melee. I prefer normal attack but if you miss there’s a chance you hit your fwend!

I would prefer individual initiative, so if the issue is waiting /positng time I’m happy for you to roll for us. I guess I’m not a fan of “we go, then they go, then we go, then…”. Or I’m misunderstanding. But if one of us would only play if it is as you listed above I’ll accept it!

Nothing else here seems outrageous, and I’m pretty happy to just go with whatever is the consensus and chalk it up to a new old experience!

Thank you for checking in everyone.

And thank you for the feedback - I am working on the Character creation blurb now ;)

While I do, we can throw around some banter. Some tidbits about me - I live in Europe, and my time is UTC+1.

Like probably many others, I am currently split between working from home and going to the office (1-2 times a week). I work in front of the PC, so I can usually throw out multiple posts a day, if they are not very convoluted. Otherwise I will usually be able to spit out one or two more complex ones per day. I got a job, a family, the whole nine yards.

My first contact with anything RPG related was with Fantastic Adventures' City of Thieves, and it completely blew me away.

My favorite setting was, and still is hands down Planescape - the potential is simply uncanny, but fact is neither me or my old TTRPG game ever really managed to make it 'click'.

And that's enough sharing for now!

Thanks again for running this!

Here is a bit about me… I’ve been playing rpgs since Jr High in 1982 with basic, expert, and ad&d. Along the way I’ve played a bunch of other systems (Star Frontiers, Boot Hill, Gangbusters, Marvel Superheroes, Traveller, GURPS, Mouseguard, and many more) but fantasy settings are my favorite. I’ve made lifelong friends through gaming and have been playing pathfinder 1e, biweekly, with the same group, and some of our grown kids now, since 2010.

On a personal note I’m a 53 years old male originally from NY but have lived in the Midwest (Indiana) (UTC-5)for the last 28 years. I have 2 kids (one in college) and have been married for 23 years. I too work from home 2-3 days a week. As far as other hobbies go I am a voracious reader, very amateur guitar player, firearms enthusiast, and avid board gamer who likes to cook (I know, my wife hit the jackpot). I also enjoy playing Baldur’s Gate ee on my iPad when I have time.

For pbp I have the time to post everyday and my life is pretty scheduled so I will be able to give you notice of anything that will impact my posting.

50, Australian, which means I swear at lot less here on the forum than in real life. Been playing since like 12 years old, or there abouts (Moldvay Red Box) and play a wide range of RPGs.

PbP wise I work the VERY early AM's most days on Sydney's train network (role is ROUGHLY equal to Conductor but also is different enough that the two roles don't marry) and have time throughout my shifts to post. I'm in a few games and even run one from time to time.

On my days off I might be delayed as I am trying to payback my sleep debt.

Hi, my name is Steve, and I'm 54, and like long walks along beaches at dusk....wait. Is that not what we're doing?

lol

All that IS true, in any event, and I got into roleplaying around the age of 12 or 13. I've played and GM'd quite a few games in the intervening years, and have loved most of it, and had fun even when I didn't.

I am currently off work due to ankle surgery, so can post daily with little issue...other than the distraction of having four kids. Only two still live home, but even the ones who've moved out can need a hand here and there.

Looking forward to this game quite a bit, I'll be honest. Thanks for inviting me.

Daniel here. 56 years old and been playing since the 1970's. Live in Northern Alberta, Canada. Married with twin boys and work as a museum professional. Usually work Tuesday to Saturday, so try to post daily and more on Sundays

I can see we are in some very different timezones, or maybe more accurately I am in a 'distant' timezone, in relation to those of you who have posted so far. Hopefully it won't be much of an issue ;)

Regarding Character Creation:

On your next post, please roll 4d6 six times, drop the lowest roll. These will be your abilities in order - STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Let us try our hand at it, see where we land and if any further adjustments might be needed.

GO!

I don’t see different time zones being an issue. Plus, if I ever get to Europe, Canada, or Australia I’ll have people to visit. :)

Edit: posted while you posted about rolling

4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 1, 4) = 13
4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 4, 5) = 20
4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 2, 6) = 16
4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 6) = 16
4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 1, 3) = 13
4d6: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 2, 5) = 12

Looks like:
STR 12
DEX 16
CON 14
INT13
WIS 12
CHA 10

Ah to hell with it (though truly old skool it should be SIWDCC not SDCIWC…)

Str: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 4, 5) = 16 14
Dex: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 5, 3) = 16 13
Con: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 3, 2) = 15 13
Int: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 6, 5) = 19 17
Wis: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 1, 1) = 5 4
Cha: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 2, 1, 5) = 9 8

Ok, so an idiot-savant Fighter coming up. Human of course. Why can’t I play just one character lately who is socially capable?!?

Very good rolls so far! And AD&D2e is SDCIWC :P

I am thinking of allowing you guys to swap your highest stat with another slot, but then you would have to play a 'matching' class.

(So as an example OSW, you could swap STR with INT, but then you would be committed to playing a Fighter)

But first let us see how the others roll.

First, I forgot the timezone-thing. EST (-5), Michigan.

Anywho, on to the dice rolls:

Str: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 6, 5) = 20
Dex: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 4, 1) = 8
Con: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 4, 3) = 16
Int: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 2, 4) = 13
Wis: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 6, 4) = 16
Chr: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 4, 5) = 17

Whoa. Better than expected. So, that's:

Str 17
Dex 7
Con 13
Int 11
Wis 15
Chr 15

So, Paladin maybe?

Edit:
Ability Requirements: Str 12, Con 9, Wis 13, and Cha 17
Prime Requisite: Str and Cha 16+

Ah, well. Guess not.

So, Paladin maybe?

Edit:
Ability Requirements: Str 12, Con 9, Wis 13, and Cha 17
Prime Requisite: Str and Cha 16+

Ah, well. Guess not.

I think you still can as the GM wrote earlier in character creation about “Removing ability and race requirements from individual classes, but keep the XP bonus for high main stat”

Correct ;)

OK I been doing the RP thing since I was 12 years old (now 53). I live in SoCal so I am on PST (Paizo time). More details to come, he he.

Here are my rolls:
Str: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 4, 2) = 12 11
Dex: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 1, 4) = 13 12
Con: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 5, 6) = 21 17
Int: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 4, 2) = 10 8
Wis: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 5, 1) = 13 12
Chr: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 2, 3) = 11 10

Hmm, maybe a dwarf fighter, or possibly a human barbarian?

Since I am not using the Complete Guides books, I don't believe we have the Barbarian as an option.

Of course, you can be a Barbarian character nonetheless ;)

OK, here we go!! I pray to the dice deities to give me acceptable rolls!!

Str: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 2, 4) = 16 = 14
Dex: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 6, 4) = 14 = 13
Con: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 4, 2) = 16 = 14
Int: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 3, 5) = 12 = 11
Wis: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 1, 6) = 17 = 16
Cha: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 2, 4, 5) = 12 = 11

Pretty average, but not horrible!! With a 16 Wisdom I suppose cleric or druid?!!

Off to the races... and theeeeeeyre off!

S 4d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 4, 3) = 14 11
D 4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 4, 3) = 15 13
C 4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 5, 1) = 14 13

I 4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 6, 2) = 14 13
W 4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 2, 5) = 12 10
Ch 4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 2, 3) = 15 13

Weeeeell... Nothing to see here BUT at least no arse sucking rolls. Very middle of the road.

I CAN work with this. Not sure how but this strikes me like an 'Everyman' who took up the mantle of adventuring. I can be pretty much any class except a Paladin (iirc).

Book Keeper turned rogue? An indifferent wizards apprentice (or self taught one) maybe?

Edit: A gnome WOULD give me 14 Int BUT limits me to an illusionist plus? I never have enjoyed them as a player race. The "feel" for the race escapes me.

I'm feeling a (partially) self taught or badly taught mage...

Please, for the sake of ensuring Helaman really, really doesn’t play a gnome, can he roll again? I’d much rather have my 4 Wisdom and 17 Intelligence than Helaman’s banal slice of beige rolls…

So far it is looking like:
OSW: Fighter
Flanderdash: Paladin/Melee
Daniel S: Cleric or Druid
Eric S: Fighter/Melee
Smilesalot: Unknown though has…high…Dex… ;)
Helaman: please no gnome

(If anyone really wants to play a gnome I’ll cope, and my human fighter won’t be mean to them. It’s completely my problem and I’ll keep it hidden in a.. very..small box.)

Once the GM decides about adjusting stats I’ll decide what to play….. luckily probably not a gnome. I am leaning toward something thief related but want to see what everyone else decides as I have several ideas percolating.

Just throwing out some ways I’ve seen stat adjustments work:

Reroll one stat.
Allow minus 2 to one stat to plus 1 to another stat (max -4/+2) no stat adjusted to lower than 8.
Switch 2 stats.
Reroll dice that come up as a 1
Turn one rolled 1 into a 6 (or 4 or 5)

I am also fine with anything else including rerolling (or not doing anything at all).

Im actually ok with my definetely wont be a gnome potential mage.

Old School play was generally mediocre characters with the occassional lucky bastard.

That said its a hard slog. That can be part of the charm.

Yep. I’m staying as is.

@Helaman: Feel free to reroll your stats with the same method if you would like.

@All: Regarding ability score adjustment, let us move forward with my initial decision of being allowed to swap your highest stat with another slot, but then having to play a 'matching' class. The main idea is to basically allow you to have a 'stronger' score in a 'main' stat, if you so desire.

@Helaman: Feel free to reroll your stats with the same method if you would like.

@All: Regarding ability score adjustment, let us move forward with my initial decision of being allowed to swap your highest stat with another slot, but then having to play a 'matching' class. The main idea is to basically allow you to have a 'stronger' score in a 'main' stat, if you so desire.

To be honest, giving players some agency is my preferred playstyle. I would prefer 4d6, drop lowest and arrange to play the class you like. I would hate to have rolled stats “forcing” me to play a class I don’t want to play for this particular game. So I think your solution stays true to what you want GM, while still giving folks some agency to play what they want.

Having said all that, I’ll still stay as is.

And now I’m really curious to see what a set of 3d6 six times in order, done 3 times and take your favorite set would look like…

So…everyone who has revealed their age is 50 or older. That leaves you and me, Obermind…my profile lists my age but is out of date. But how out of date is it? And is the GM the youngest of us all?!? Inquiring minds wish to know! Well, ok, OSW does…

Sounds good. I’ll go thief or maybe a multi-class thief of some sort. Unless someone else has their hart set on thief then I’ll pivot to something else.

So…everyone who has revealed their age is 50 or older. That leaves you and me, Obermind…my profile lists my age but is out of date. But how out of date is it? And is the GM the youngest of us all?!? Inquiring minds wish to know! Well, ok, OSW does…

My guess is that OSW keeps his profile pretty up to date so I’m thinking you are 47. As for the GM I do think he is the youngest about 45ish.

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

So…everyone who has revealed their age is 50 or older. That leaves you and me, Obermind…my profile lists my age but is out of date. But how out of date is it? And is the GM the youngest of us all?!? Inquiring minds wish to know! Well, ok, OSW does…

My guess is that OSW keeps his profile pretty up to date so I’m thinking you are 47. As for the GM I do think he is the youngest about 45ish.

Close. 48. And I also think GM is younger.

@OSW: During my 'research' on Ability Score generation methods for AD&D2e, among many others, I came across this post - it has some really interesting information on what you can expect from different methods.

Like you pointed out, my objective was to introduce some randomness, while still allowing player agency. I am happy with how things are turning out so far.

But I have also been an AD&D2e player for MANY years, so I have been there and I know how it feels - I also wanted my Fighter to have a Str18/00 of course, and I also wanted you guys to have that! :D The thing was, at a certain point I was starting to get analysis paralysis, so decided to just move forward with this method.

---

Regarding age, it was nice to see we are all in the same 'grognard' range. Even though yes, I am the one of the youngsters MUAHAHAHAHA! I am 48 ;)

I’m just not used to be one of the youngsters…

@OSW: During my 'research' on Ability Score generation methods for AD&D2e, among many others, I came across this post - it has some really interesting information on what you can expect from different methods.

Like you pointed out, my objective was to introduce some randomness, while still allowing player agency. I am happy with how things are turning out so far.

Yep, feels ok. And that is an interesting analyisis linked. I like the table that shows your chances of generating a paladin. For Method 1 it was 0.1% in the PHB and 1/500,000 in UA.

Yep, if you go with Class requirements it can be painful.

So, what setting are we in? Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk? Homebrew?
Just looking at diety options for my clumsy paladin.

Greyhawk ;)

Cool beans. :D
What region, if that's not spoiler-ish?

Not 100% sure yet. Either Nyrond or Furyondy.

So... reroll 4d6 and re-assemble as desired?

I could swap out my CON for INT if you want a magic-user in the group ;)

OK...was thinking of going druid, but I think I will simply stay as a cleric! Will look over the Greyhawk pantheon and see which diety sounds good to me...lol

I could swap out my CON for INT if you want a magic-user in the group ;)

My thoughts are play what you want. Party balance is overrated in my book.