Savage Firefly - want some "space western" adventures?

Game Master ZenFox42

Yes, *always* roll the Wild die, because of Acing. The Wild die *could* have come up 6, and the re-roll has an 83% chance of making the total result better than 7, which would make the result a Raise.

I know it's a lot of jargon to take in all at once, but you'll get there...

Since this is just for practice, why don't you do the Focus and Electronics rolls again, from scratch?

Beware the GM that giveth homework! :)
Kidding.

Some time ago when I first tried Savage Worlds it took a while. Getting used to rolling the different dice and the wild die and the concept of acing took some getting used to but now, it's my favorite rules set.

Yes, *always* roll the Wild die, because of Acing. The Wild die *could* have come up 6, and the re-roll has an 83% chance of making the total result better than 7, which would make the result a Raise.

I know it's a lot of jargon to take in all at once, but you'll get there...

Since this is just for practice, why don't you do the Focus and Electronics rolls again, from scratch?

I knew there had to be something I was missing ...

THE REWIND

FOCUS: 1d8 ⇒ 8
WILD: 1d6 ⇒ 1
Brook increases his ELEC die to d8

ELEC: 1d8 ⇒ 8
WILD: 1d6 ⇒ 4
Brook seems to be able to address the problem

Two aces there, the d8 results of 8. Those get an Ace roll. Not needed if a simple success is needed, but I find it fun to roll all aces just for the experience of seeing how high the result may get.

The challenging things for me is that it can be hard to understand the odds of getting a certain result. In another SW game, I just rolled a skill check using a skill I had no training in. That means the main skill die is d4 with a -2 to the result. Seems odds are pretty low of even getting up to 4. But both the d4 and the wild d6 aced (results of 4 and 6 respectively). The ace rolls brought the skill result up to a 7 for the skill and an 8 for the wild. So even with a -2, the end result was 8 - 2 = 6, which typically gives you a success.

What are the odds of that? Acing a d4 and d6 is about a 4% chance. Our GM and I can both advise you about the odds of a particular result, if you want advice.

A detailed analysis shows that a d4 -2 roll with a wild d6 has about a 33% chance of a single success, 13% chance of a raise, 5% chance of 2 raises. If you are used to a d20 system, that's like a DC being about 14 higher than the roll bonus, with a crit occurring on a roll of 19 or 20.

There is also the chance of a critical fail, which is rolling a 1 on both main and wild die. The chance of that is around 3 to 4%.

Arabella - Thanks! Altho I agree with your 33% chance of success on a d4-2, I calculate the chance of a single Raise as 9.4%. I'll double-check my results if you'll double-check yours...

Brook - in addition, even without re-rolling the first Ace, you got a Raise on the roll. For Boost/Lower Trait, that means your Electronics die goes up *two* die types, from a d6 to a d10!

Yeah, I'm afraid you're eventually going to have to learn what each Power you have does, as well. ;)

Want to try again?

ALL - also, in PbP I ask the players to continue re-rolling *all* Aces until they stop, the reason for which I'm not going to say...

Arabella - Thanks! Altho I agree with your 33% chance of success on a d4-2, I calculate the chance of a single Raise as 9.4%. I'll double-check my results if you'll double-check yours...

Brook - in addition, even without re-rolling the first Ace, you got a Raise on the roll. For Boost/Lower Trait, that means your Electronics die goes up *two* die types, from a d6 to a d10!

Yeah, I'm afraid you're eventually going to have to learn what each Power you have does, as well. ;)

Want to try again?

ALL - also, in PbP I ask the players to continue re-rolling *all* Aces until they stop, the reason for which I'm not going to say...

Yes I would totally like to try again, but let's also make sure that we are clear on process (for me)

So the 8 on Brook's natural Focus roll is an Ace AND a RAISE, meaning that he should roll an ACE roll now, correct? I am assuming that the reason for that at this point is that Raises would stack, so that if Brook were to get another 8, that would carry forward to make his ELEC roll 1d12, and then he would, per the instrcutions we just received, also need to roll another ACE Roll because Ace rolls have a cosmic significance we are not meant to understand yet.

Steps:
Retain the FOCUS Roll of 8
Retain the WILD Roll of 1
Roll an ACE Roll of 1d8 for the potential of an additional ACE
PREVIEW
Pending additional changes;
Re-roll the ELEC Roll as 1d10
Re-roll the WILD Roll
Determine outcome

Two aces there, the d8 results of 8. Those get an Ace roll. Not needed if a simple success is needed, but I find it fun to roll all aces just for the experience of seeing how high the result may get.

The challenging things for me is that it can be hard to understand the odds of getting a certain result. In another SW game, I just rolled a skill check using a skill I had no training in. That means the main skill die is d4 with a -2 to the result. Seems odds are pretty low of even getting up to 4. But both the d4 and the wild d6 aced (results of 4 and 6 respectively). The ace rolls brought the skill result up to a 7 for the skill and an 8 for the wild. So even with a -2, the end result was 8 - 2 = 6, which typically gives you a success.

What are the odds of that? Acing a d4 and d6 is about a 4% chance. Our GM and I can both advise you about the odds of a particular result, if you want advice.

A detailed analysis shows that a d4 -2 roll with a wild d6 has about a 33% chance of a single success, 13% chance of a raise, 5% chance of 2 raises. If you are used to a d20 system, that's like a DC being about 14 higher than the roll bonus, with a crit occurring on a roll of 19 or 20.

There is also the chance of a critical fail, which is rolling a 1 on both main and wild die. The chance of that is around 3 to 4%.

Also, in full disclosure, now pretty much transparent in Brook's profile, Brook is meant to be a Luck Build ... so this type of math is super interesting AND super relevant. His own perception of what he can do is that it is innate & passive; it will remain tat way until our next advances when he will manifest some powers that are more active & externally impactful.

That said: what are the odds of what happened in gameplay? As I looked at the rolls in sequence, to me it seems beyond unlikely that all of those rolls would produce not 1, not 2, but 3 raises. Characters will know when they do well, right? I guess in this case the raises only mitigate a semi-crappy base roll, but they do help. (given 3-18, 15 isn't that good, but 12 is a lot more average, so whatever the oppositve of meta-gaming is, I wondered how that is perceived by the character)

Your "Steps" in your post-before-last look good.

The whole thing about random die rolls is that they are, by definition, random, which means *anything* can happen. That means rolling a 6 on a 6-sided die 4 times in a row is very *rare*, but still *possible* (I've done it here in a PbP). And I've made rolls for groups of bad guys with probably 20 or so rolls (two dice per roll) and not one Ace.

Also, in SW getting more than one Raise on a roll *almost always* doesn't give you any further benefits than just getting one. The common phrase in the rules is "one or more Raises". And think of the final, total roll, not the base roll, because it is part of the total roll - without it, you might not have gotten a big enough number for the Raise - make sense?

There's a lot of...I don't know what to call it...meta-meta-gaming(?) in SW. When you make a roll and fail, then spend a Bennie to re-roll it, what happens in the game world? Did the PC's reality re-write itself, or what? Or when you Soak Damage, same thing - in the first reality the PC takes damage, but then suddenly they're in a reality where they took none.

Your "Steps" in your post-before-last look good.

The whole thing about random die rolls is that they are, by definition, random, which means *anything* can happen. That means rolling a 6 on a 6-sided die 4 times in a row is very *rare*, but still *possible* (I've done it here in a PbP). And I've made rolls for groups of bad guys with probably 20 or so rolls (two dice per roll) and not one Ace.

Also, in SW getting more than one Raise on a roll *almost always* doesn't give you any further benefits than just getting one. The common phrase in the rules is "one or more Raises". And think of the final, total roll, not the base roll, because it is part of the total roll - without it, you might not have gotten a big enough number for the Raise - make sense?

There's a lot of...I don't know what to call it...meta-meta-gaming(?) in SW. When you make a roll and fail, then spend a Bennie to re-roll it, what happens in the game world? Did the PC's reality re-write itself, or what? Or when you Soak Damage, same thing - in the first reality the PC takes damage, but then suddenly they're in a reality where they took none.

I have, in the past, tended to refer to that as "Storytelling Augmentation" - because it isn't meta-gaming in the classic sense. It's the active engagement of game mechanics to create positive plot outcomes; which really is different than simply wanting higher die rolls (different to me anyway)

RE-REROLL incl ACE

FOCUS=8
WILD=1
ACE: 1d8 ⇒ 6

ELEC: 1d10 ⇒ 5
WILD: 1d6 ⇒ 1

I think that is correct, but lmk

Spot on! Congrats! So your final result is...???

Spot on! Congrats! So your final result is...???

For the thermostat, with a 5, I think it is just a normal success

Arabella - Thanks! Altho I agree with your 33% chance of success on a d4-2, I calculate the chance of a single Raise as 9.4%. I'll double-check my results if you'll double-check yours...

My table doesn't separate single successes from single raises. If the result is at least 4, I count that as a success. If it also a raise, that is a separate tally. I'm mainly trying to see the odds of getting at least a success. Since sometimes, there is no benefit to a raise, the main statistic needed is the odds of at least a success. If a raise is needed, I also get the odds of that.

I also don't pursue results that might have more than 4 aces.

I also do 500 simulated rolls at a time. Percent results can vary a bit if I repeat the trail.

Brook - good try, half-right. Let's look at your rolls again :

FOCUS=8
WILD=1
ACE: 1d8 ⇒ 6 (remember, the Ace value gets *added* to the original roll...)

ELEC: 1d10 ⇒ 5 \ pick the better of these two once Acing is done
WILD : 1d6 ⇒ 1 /

It's more confusing with two separate rolls (sorry), but for each roll :
- Roll the Trait die and a Wild die
- If either one (or both) Aces, keep re-rolling until you don't get an Ace
- Add all the Ace rolls to the original die roll
- Pick the better of the Trait die total and the Wild die total

Then you had two different rolls (Boost & Electronics) :
For Boost, 8+6=14, technically 2 Raises.
For Electronics, yes you rolled a 5, a Success.

Hope this helps!

Brook - good try, half-right. Let's look at your rolls again :

FOCUS=8
WILD=1
ACE: 1d8 ⇒ 6 (remember, the Ace value gets *added* to the original roll...)

ELEC: 1d10 ⇒ 5 \ pick the better of these two once Acing is done
WILD : 1d6 ⇒ 1 /

It's more confusing with two separate rolls (sorry), but for each roll :
- Roll the Trait die and a Wild die
- If either one (or both) Aces, keep re-rolling until you don't get an Ace
- Add all the Ace rolls to the original die roll
- Pick the better of the Trait die total and the Wild die total

Then you had two different rolls (Boost & Electronics) :
For Boost, 8+6=14, technically 2 Raises.
For Electronics, yes you rolled a 5, a Success.

Hope this helps!

Helps a ton! Thank you!

Don't forget, it's very rare that SW gives rewards for 2 Raises, most of them say "...on one or more Raises...". Boost Trait isn't an exception.

Copy that; reading the power though, can he cast it twice, like consecutively? To get to 1d12?

At the very bottom of the Power's description it says "Additional castings don’t stack on a single Trait (take the highest), but may affect different Traits."

So you *could* re-cast it, but you've already got the highest result possible, so it'd be a waste of Power Points - make sense?

I just noticed, in Boost Power the phrase is "Boosting an ally’s Trait increases the selected Trait one die type, or two with a Raise", which is another common phrase, where "a Raise" implies any number of Raises.

Wow, pretty intricate. So it's cast, pray for Raise, maintain power (if needed).
Got it.

Well, if you hadn't gotten a Raise, you could re-cast for the same Skill and *if* you get a Raise, you get its benefits. But re-casting takes time (important in combat) and costs PP, so...

Can someone remind me what, if anything, we made from the gig on the derelict starliner we just completed? I did not record anything on my profile record.

I'm not going to slog thru pages of posts, and I'm not even sure I told you a number when the job came up. Let's say (since it's a big broadcast production company) that you each get 100p after overhead (except for Brook, sorry).

Thanks. Since Arabella has built up some savings, I'm going to look through the books to see if there is anything interesting she can purchase. I just want to confirm that the currency (platinum coins?) is equal to the SWADE currency.

Since the Serenity RP game book has some items listed, I looked at the cost of a pistol and a rifle and compared their cost in Platinum to the SWADE cost and it looked as if 1 Serenity Platinum was equal to about 4.5 of the SWADE currency. Let me know if you think that is off.

If I find anything interesting, I check with you for the cost. I'll probably look for some better armor since she has to sometimes survive a round or two until she unfreezes.

Thanks for the reminder. I will also see if Daisy has anything she'd like to purchase while on planet!

All - I'd rather people bought items that are only listed in the SWADE Core Rulebook. A lot of the items in the Serenity RPG and SW Sci-Fi Companion are too high-tech, and there's also the money conversion factor to deal with when using Serenity (I agree with Arabella's 4.5).

I tried to scale the prices of the items (and your payments) in my setting rules to correspond to those in the SW Core Rules. But even there, pretty much everything in the Surveillance table on page 68 is unavailable.

If anybody sees any high-tech gear they *really* want, tell me which book you're getting it from, and I'd decide on a case-by-case basis.

I was hoping to get better armor, but it looks like with a strength of d4, she couldn't manage more than what she has. If there is any kind of force field device, she would save up for that.

The only other things that she would get is a digital camera, a flashlight, pepper spray, stun gun, and a pump action shotgun, if those are available.

There's not much value in accumulating cash unless we can spend it on something that helps in combat, which is not Arabella's strength.

For now Daisy just purchased a few small needed items. An Umbrella and some handcuffs.
What? Oh, for work, of course...

She's also good on armor for her STR.

I don't think even the Alliance had force fields on the TV show (altho I've only seen the series once, and have a poor memory, so...). But they do have "levitation" devices, which is pretty impressive, being able to alter space-time curvature like that.

Since we don't know the full extent of Alliance technology, I'd guess digital cameras have been created, but they would probably be luxury items and available only on Core planets, cost unknown.

Arabella, everything else on your wish list is readily available.

I never saw any forcefield devices on either the show or the movie.

I don't have the books nor can afford them right now.

So not sure what is available. But I will look through the SWADE book and see if there is anything that I might be able to acquire.

Arabella will look for the following for purchase when she has time for a shopping trip:

a flashlight, pepper spray, stun gun, and a pump action shotgun (+ shells).

Costs/Weight in SWADE:
Flashlight: 20/3
Pepper Spray: 15/0.5
Stun Gun: 25/0.5
Pump Action Shotgun: 150/8
Shotgun Shells (25): 15/1.5

If she carries all this along with her other gear, she will be encumbered.

Encumbered characters subtract 2 from Pace (minimum 1″), running rolls, Agility and all linked skills, and Vigor rolls made to resist Fatigue (see page 100).

Since Arabella is not generally needing a high pace or using agility related skills.

Arabella will look for the following for purchase when she has time for a shopping trip:

a flashlight, pepper spray, stun gun, and a pump action shotgun (+ shells).

Costs/Weight in SWADE:
Flashlight: 20/3
Pepper Spray: 15/0.5
Stun Gun: 25/0.5
Pump Action Shotgun: 150/8
Shotgun Shells (25): 15/1.5

If she carries all this along with her other gear, she will be encumbered.

Encumbered characters subtract 2 from Pace (minimum 1″), running rolls, Agility and all linked skills, and Vigor rolls made to resist Fatigue (see page 100).

Harold - there's a short list of new equipment in the setting document, along with what is and isn't allowed from the SWADE Core Rules, available to download on the Campaign Info page, FWIW.

Arabella - yeah, encumbrance is a pain. A -2 *halves* your chances of success on d4's to d8's (and drops success on d10's and d12's by 30%). They could have made it a -1 for a far less penalizing effect.

What's your heaviest object? Do you *always* need it when you leave the ship?

What's your next-heaviest object? Do you *always* need it when you leave the ship?

What's your next-next-heaviest object? Do you *always* need it when you leave the ship?

etc...

Harold - there's a short list of new equipment in the setting document, along with what is and isn't allowed from the SWADE Core Rules, available to download on the Campaign Info page, FWIW.

With the existence of Vera, I assume that Assault Rifles, such as the M16 and the AK47 also exist. (Not allowed in setting document), so I am going to ask.

Also on that, in Serenity Valley, Mal uses a dual DSHK .50 (russian) in a AA mount on a flyer, and then on some ground targets, I am going to assume HMG's also exist. (NO, I do not want, nor need one.)

If both of those exist, then by rights the LMG's should also exist.
These would both be things like the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) and the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) Both of which are in SWADE.

Now I know that those are very unlikely to be found, but I would like a little clarification.

The main thing I would be looking for, is accessories, such as red dot sights, Bipods for others, and Scopes for others, along with Magazine so I can just change mags, and not have to worry about loading them after emptying one.

Harold - first a disclaimer : I know virtually nothing about guns. Can you tell from pictures of Vera (Google "vera firefly" without the quotes, and click on Images) whether its a shotgun, long-range rifle, semi- or full-auto machine gun? And what makes a rifle an "assault" rifle?

Given Vera, I'll allow all SWADE Assault Rifles and Machine Guns, but at twice the listed price because they're relatively rare.

All the accessories you listed are in SWADE and available, at the listed price.

Magazines are available for all semi-automatic pistols and submachine guns, but only for the Barrett rifle and the BAR. SWADE says that a magazine costs 10% of the gun's price, which sounds fair.

@GM, for your information.

By definition, an assault rifle is a rifle that fires an intermediate cartridge that has select fire capabilities.
It will fire either 1 round, 3 rounds or full automatic on a single pull of the trigger, depending on setting of the safety/fire selector switch.

A RL example will be the M16/M4 family. uses .223 calibre (AKA 5.56 mm)
The base variant was safe and full auto.
The A1 variant took away the full auto, and gave it burst fire, and Safe.
The A2 Variant took away the burst, and only made it Semi Auto, and Safe.
The A3 Variant Gave back the Burst fire, and Safe.
The A4 Variant Gave Safe, Semi, Burst, and Full Auto.

The description Jayne gives for Vera in "Our Mrs Reynolds" was that of a full bore auto lock which I am assuming will be an assault rifle.

A standard Battle Rifle, would be that of the M1 Garand which used a 30-06 cartridge later rechambered in 7.62 mm (AKA .308 calibre)
This would be the M14 family of rifles.

I hope that helps. :)

As for the rest of your post, I can work with the prices that you laid out, thank you.

I too am unfamiliar with the details of guns, but as a physics major I know that one of the key difference between an assault weapon used in military situations and guns used in civilian life is the mass and velocity of the rounds. An assault rifle round carries considerably more kinetic energy than a round from a hunting rifle or handgun.

In one of the recent tragic mass shootings where an assault rifle was used, doctors trying to treat victims commented that when a conventional civilian gunshot passes through an organ, it leaves a hole; an assault rifle hitting the same organ more or less obliterates the organ. Bones can be shattered, and the amount of bleeding is much more severe. In short, an assault rifle bullet is designed to kill with one shot.

The Alliance likely would limit civilian use of such weapons where they can.

A mutual friend of Zenfox and I mock-chided another friend, who like us knew nothing about guns, when she said something inaccurate about a gun, "I don't know why I bother highlighting Guns and Ammo magazines for you."

I'll put Arabella's heavier items in a pack that can be dropped if she needs to ditch the penalties. Most of the time, she is not doing things requiring agility. She'll likely keep her shotgun and six-shooter on her and put the rest in a pack. In a fight, she can ditch the pack and the encumbrance penalty for the durration.

What kind of action would shedding a backpack be?

Daisy is already carrying Arabella's medkit.

I too am unfamiliar with the details of guns, but as a physics major I know that one of the key difference between an assault weapon used in military situations and guns used in civilian life is the mass and velocity of the rounds. An assault rifle round carries considerably more kinetic energy than a round from a hunting rifle or handgun.

In one of the recent tragic mass shootings where an assault rifle was used, doctors trying to treat victims commented that when a conventional civilian gunshot passes through an organ, it leaves a hole; an assault rifle hitting the same organ more or less obliterates the organ. Bones can be shattered, and the amount of bleeding is much more severe. In short, an assault rifle bullet is designed to kill with one shot.

The Alliance likely would limit civilian use of such weapons where they can.

A mutual friend of Zenfox and I mock-chided another friend, who like us knew nothing about guns, when she said something inaccurate about a gun, "I don't know why I bother highlighting Guns and Ammo magazines for you."

I need to just own that this made me smile. My older brother was semi-obsessed with Guns & Ammo when we were young; and it was all I could do to flip through and think about which ones would look best with a cool outfit.

I too am unfamiliar with the details of guns, but as a physics major I know that one of the key difference between an assault weapon used in military situations and guns used in civilian life is the mass and velocity of the rounds. An assault rifle round carries considerably more kinetic energy than a round from a hunting rifle or handgun.

In one of the recent tragic mass shootings where an assault rifle was used, doctors trying to treat victims commented that when a conventional civilian gunshot passes through an organ, it leaves a hole; an assault rifle hitting the same organ more or less obliterates the organ. Bones can be shattered, and the amount of bleeding is much more severe. In short, an assault rifle bullet is designed to kill with one shot.

The Alliance likely would limit civilian use of such weapons where they can.

A mutual friend of Zenfox and I mock-chided another friend, who like us knew nothing about guns, when she said something inaccurate about a gun, "I don't know why I bother highlighting Guns and Ammo magazines for you."

I got a couple of quibbles with what that doctor said.

If you look at it, the high velocity of the smaller round is what did the damage.

A civilian hunting rifle (.308 or 7.62mm), uses a larger cartridge and round that are designed to expand and thus drop the animal so it does not suffer.

The assault rifle (.223 or 5.56mm) uses a higher velocity round that does less damage overall due to hydrostatic shock, which means that the injuries tend to be more survivable.

My military life included using the larger .308 full metal jacket round which would remove an arm, if it hit the shoulder to the just wounding aspect of the .223 full metal jacket.

The wounding aspect and more ammunition for the troops, is why the militaries went with the smaller caliber rifle.
Shooting someone with the .308 removes the one person shot.
Shooting someone with the .223 removes the person shot, plus ties up multiple people in the rear to keep that troop alive.

The handgun, might have a larger round (9mm, or .45") but it has a lower velocity which equates to not the same damage.

And yes, I can see the alliance doing its best to limit the civilian use of assault rifles.

Most of the time, she is not doing things requiring agility.

Encumbrance affects Agility rolls and all Agility-based skills, like Athletics, Fighting, Shooting, and Stealth. So yeah, you'll be wanting to drop the backpack whenever combat starts.

What kind of action would shedding a backpack be?

A Free Action.

And yes, I can see the alliance doing its best to limit the civilian use of assault rifles.

So would you be opposed to in addition to the higher price, adding that you'd have to make a Persuasion(Networking) roll in order to find someone who can supply black market assault rifles and machine guns? And that person could be honest, dishonest, or an undercover Alliance officer, so it's risky.

Harold wrote:

And yes, I can see the alliance doing its best to limit the civilian use of assault rifles.

So would you be opposed to in addition to the higher price, adding that you'd have to make a Persuasion(Networking) roll in order to find someone who can supply black market assault rifles and machine guns? And that person could be honest, dishonest, or an undercover Alliance officer, so it's risky.

Not opposed at all, the nature of the verse, I can see it, due to the alliance, trying their goram best to control everything. :)

Apologies all, real life presented some snags this week.
I will catch up soon!

Apologies all, real life presented some snags this week.

I will catch up soon!

All caught up :)

On days off. Will respond on monday

I will be out of town this weekend at a Steampunk convention. Will probably not post until Sunday night. 'Bot as needed.

Sounds fun! Enjoy!!!!

All I can say is too peopley. :)

I got social anxiety from my military career.
(Cannot have people behind me)

Sounds fun, but I cannot go to those, But working on it.