GM Harrow’s Curse of the Crimson Throne - AE

Game Master GM Harrow

Pava's restocking their antitoxin and snagging an Oil of Bless Weapon for personal use.

Do we think that 2 holy waters each will be enough? AUdria will grab what she can from the Sanctuary and we should be able to get the rest from the Bank of Abadar.

Right now Pava's not looking to reach out and talk about stuff (and so I likely won't initiate a scene), but they're visibly Going Through It on the way to the graveyard if someone else wants to and it fits their character.

@Audria: Shrike only wants one holy water but two holy weapon balms, and will give Audria the cash beforehand or pay her back, so I'm tracking it individually for her below. Thanks for doing that.

GM, may we assume the purchases discussed here over the past few days are fine to make before heading to the Dead Warrens? If so, this is Shrike's full list for bookkeeping purposes:

I've added the two CLW potions to Audria's inventory.

How about 12 holy water flasks and 8 holy weapon balms? That'd be 540 gp total and would allow for each of us that use weapons primarily to have two holy weapon balms. Between the Sanctuary, the Bank of Abadar, and the Great Cathedral to Pharasma, we should be able to get all of that.

Still here, but I think Shane is squirreled away memorizing spells for the mission

Okay, I've updated Audria's sheet. Everyone should get 2 Holy Waters and Audria, Pava, Elric, and Shrike get 2 holy weapon balms.

I'll change the quantities on Audria's sheet before we get into the Warrens.

@Audria - Shrike already did have two holy weapon balms and one holy water as declared purchases just now, so if if it makes things simpler I'll add one more holy water to her sheet and subtract another 25 gp. You can consider her part of that purchase paid for (110 gp total), so don't overcharge yourself from Audria's share of gold.

We haven't heard from GM Harrow in a few days. I hope all is well with you, Kittenmancer. Please keep us updated or let us know if there's any more prep you need from us.

Alrighty, I've adjusted the amounts on my character sheet. Do I need to edit the loot sheet?

Also hoping the GM is alright.

Ugh my post this morning got eaten

I’m good with that reshuffling of items, Shrike

I don't think you need to edit the loot sheet, Audria. I've only been tracking confirmed group purchases there, like the CLW wand and now the scroll of glitterdust. We didn't seem to have group interest or buy-in for a ton of holy waters and holy weapon balms, and Pava's intended purchases didn't mention either one. So I was just handling Shrike's individually. I would suggest you do so too, only charging yourself for what you know Audria wants, and let everyone else declare their purchases individually. It's not fair for you to have to shoulder an extra monetary burden.

@Everyone: If you want holy water or holy weapon balm, please declare the amounts now and mark the money off wherever you track that, so that Audria isn't left holding an expensive tab for a bunch of potentially unused consumables.

Okay, I'll do that then.

I think I need Roll20 permissions to see what Pava can see

Osseous. Now there's a great word you don't see every day.

Friendly reminder that Elric has a pushback ability that lets him keep enemies at bay and trigger extra AoOs, especially if they can't 5-ft step. Be careful about getting between him and the enemy.

Of course, all his fancy abilities are meaningless if he can't roll higher than 2.

Minor note: only "particularly steep" stairs count as difficult terrain. On most stairs you can move up and down them "without penalty," but can't Run, and Acrobatics DCs are at +4.

Guess we need a quick GM ruling in this case. It's pretty relevant for Elric's options.

Pava's actually quite comfortable playing bullfighter and stopping the big skellie cold.

Plenty of actions to go before their next turn of course, but just so folk know where my head's at.

An ideal 1st and 2nd turn for Elric vs a melee enemy with 5 ft reach goes something like this (assuming Elric wins initiative):

1st turn:
Elric: Move to a position just within the enemy's charge range. Ready attack w/lucerne hammer.
Enemy: Charge or close to melee range. Readied attack triggers - possible pushback 5 ft. Enemy continues movement, leaving treatened square - AoO triggers - Again possible pushback 5 ft. on hit. Attack on Elric if enough movement. The dream scenario is that the two pushbacks leaves the enemy stuck 5 ft from Elric.

2nd turn:
Elric: 5 ft step back (if needed), attack with Lucerne hammer. Pushback on hit, leaving the enemy 10 ft from Elric.
Enemy: charge/close to melee range (too far for 5ft step), triggers AoO - attack on Elric if still alive.

So, that's potentially 4 attacks on the enemy vs two (or even zero) on Elric, and they can't full attack. However, it only works if noone is blocking the squares in front of and behind Elric.

Good to know for next time.

Audria's very much an in-your-face kind of fighter. Just a shame that we rolled a 1 and a 2 on our attacks. :P

As a reach weapon fighter, trying to coordinate tactically with up-close fighters in confined spaces so that everyone feels they're able to contribute is tough. When we can all spread out, that should help, but winning initiative is important, and in later rounds, unless we carefully coordinate every time, probably someone else is within 5 feet already, and so the enemy has little incentive to brave the AoO to get to the reach weapon users.

Elric, I think the damage die on the hammer attack should be a d12, not a d20, right?

Ah..erm…you see, Elric is carrying a REALLY REALLY BIG lucerne hammer. Not your average run-of-the-mill polearm at all.

(Fixed - thanks. Good catch)

As a reach weapon fighter, trying to coordinate tactically with up-close fighters in confined spaces so that everyone feels they're able to contribute is tough. When we can all spread out, that should help, but winning initiative is important, and in later rounds, unless we carefully coordinate every time, probably someone else is within 5 feet already, and so the enemy has little incentive to brave the AoO to get to the reach weapon users.

Truth. Also, if we try to hold back and lure people onto us in a compact space even when we outnumber them, I will have a very hard time using flanks :-p

Perfectly valid points. My intention is not to have Elric hog all the combat spotlight, merely to give an example of his most optimal fighting situation. And he's just as happy to be flanking as Pava.

Some added benefits of the pushback is that it don't just set up potential AoO for Elric, but also for anyone else threatening the same area - such as Shrike and Audria wielding their own reach weapons. And it can also create openings to allow Pava and others to move into flank without needing acrobatics.

This is our first combat together, so it's only natural that we need a couple of tries to get a feel for the best way to organize and position ourselves.

Apologies. I should have double checked what type of bonus Guidance gave, because I thought it didn't stack with Bless. If the GM would allow it, Tally would have cast it on Shrike.

Also, Ooooow. That hurt.

And to be fair to Bartholomew. He was more focused on teaching her how to defend herself than tactics, but in this case, I don't think it'd make much of a difference. Audria wouldn't have fallen back while Pava would still be in danger. Oh, and he was also the one that taught Elric how to fight as well, so this one's on Audria and her player.

I did think that was what you meant by "Tally can cast Guidance at will, so she'll be doing it on Shrike," but didn't want to assume. Thanks for the confirmation, Audria.

Shrike's not actually mad at Bartholomew or Audria, just worried and remembering some very painful lessons about fighting in a group that she also had to learn at approximately 16. Hers were less about self-sacrifice and more about getting tunnel vision on a single enemy and refusing to back down.

"Aren't you glad I softened it up for you first?"

And Shrike too, it turns out! That was a high-impact bless from Abella (as it made the difference for both Shrike and Elric) and guidance from Talanaliel.

The turn has already been resolved and I'm glad Pava's maneuver paid off, but just for the future: When leaving a square threatened by multiple enemies and attempting to use Acrobatics to avoid an attack of opportunity, you make separate Acrobatics checks against each enemy's CMD, in the order of your choosing, with an additional +2 to the DC for each enemy after the first.

P.S. @Elric — Audria doesn't actually have a reach weapon. Halberds don't have the reach weapon property, even though in real life they're just as long as other polearm weapons. She explained here that she specifically didn't want a reach weapon or she would have been using a glaive.

Oh, forgot it wasn't just the one check compared against multiple DCs - apologies! (Too much PF2 infecting my game design assumptions)

If the guidance from Tally was in effect, does that mean that Shrike and Elric took out the owlbear before Pava’s turn, so their hit could be against the last remaining skeleton? Essentially, combat over?

I said my position in gameplay in ooc, but I just want to accentuate thaf strongly dislike any situation in which one veteran player is being told to play differently when they are being effective. I have seen people close to me driven to tears by such behavior, so I have particularly strong feelings on the subject. It actively hampers my enjoyment. I am staying my feelings here as other people getting told how to play has been a recurring issue, and I would like for it to not be.

We are all here with our own desires and playstyles, and we have to figure out how to meet in the middle, not lambaste people for not playing optimal enough. I know it’s disappointing when other players don’t enable what you want to do, but that’s just the game. It happens. If I want control over the whole party, I play a video game.

GM, could Abella keep her spell and use the two wand charges? Alternatively, would you mind saving that second charge on the wand? Either way, I'm only a couple of points off from full.

I said my position in gameplay in ooc, but I just want to accentuate thaf strongly dislike any situation in which one veteran player is being told to play differently when they are being effective. I have seen people close to me driven to tears by such behavior, so I have particularly strong feelings on the subject. It actively hampers my enjoyment. I am staying my feelings here as other people getting told how to play has been a recurring issue, and I would like for it to not be.

We are all here with our own desires and playstyles, and we have to figure out how to meet in the middle, not lambaste people for not playing optimal enough. I know it’s disappointing when other players don’t enable what you want to do, but that’s just the game. It happens. If I want control over the whole party, I play a video game.

Thank you for this, Abella. I almost posted last night when I was stressed and tired. I'm glad I didn't. Because you are right, and apologies are in order.

I'm deeply sorry, if I have made the game less fun for any on of you. Believe me, that was never my intention.

In this encounter, Elric holding Audria back from moving into the room meant that we got stuck in the stairs with only the front liners able to act. That's not fun or optimal, especially if you are a flanker.

I got annoyed when Pava assumed actions on behalf of my character and delivered an insult of my tactics and choice of weapon, but failed to see that I had put them in a position where the only option was to lob a flask of holy water or stand around and wait. I'm sorry for that.

Looking further back, we also ended up going with Elric's plan for the raid on Eel's End. I hope that was by group consensus, but if I pushed too hard to get my way, I'm sorry for that too.

There are plenty of ways I could try to justify my actions, both in character and OOC, but the bottom line is that the game should be fun for everyone and right now, it isn't.

And if my actions are making the game less enjoyable for you, please tell me and I'll do all I can to change that.

I'd honestly as soon not make a big thing of this. Sorry that my/Pava's barb about the polearm landed though - that was meant to just be them being crabby as opposed to expressing anything ooc, and I hadn't then clocked that this was a moment of real frustration for you. (Polearms are great in dungeons in PF - just not if you actually had to worry about a low ceiling!).

I think I do have to push back about 'assuming' your action. I didn't dictate what you would do; I delayed and made a guess about what you would do and posted what my follow up would be if that was the case to avoid waiting until our posting schedules synced (I often hop on at a different time of day from the rest of the crew). Finding out you'd done something different would've just meant I had them do something else. If that doesn't work for you though, I'll forego that in the future.

I think I do have to push back about 'assuming' your action. I didn't dictate what you would do; I delayed and made a guess about what you would do and posted what my follow up would be if that was the case to avoid waiting until our posting schedules synced (I often hop on at a different time of day from the rest of the crew). Finding out you'd done something different would've just meant I had them do something else. If that doesn't work for you though, I'll forego that in the future.

You are absolutely right, you did nothing wrong in that situation. I already spoke to Kittenmancer directly over Discord about it, and it was a totally reasonable call to keep the game moving. I might have done the same as a GM.

I should have been able to let that go, but instead I got IC, OOC and real life frustrations mixed up in a way that was neither productive or pretty.

In brutal 20-20 hindsight, my guess is that I had been looking forward to relieving real life stress by smashing things to pieces with my big fantasy hammer - and when that didn't go exactly as planned, I got huffy. The quib from Pava added to that, certainly, but you had no way of knowing that.

I agree that we should't make a big deal about this. I just felt the need to hit reset and say sorry.

Lovely plan - Onward!

I would just like to note here in advance that torture of anyone by the PCs is a red line for me as a player, and I said as much back when GM Harrow offered to pick up this game.

Awesome, glad that worked out. No bad feelings here!

I don't know why my brain saw the extremely clear pluralization of derros in the spoiler and went "Ah yes, the plural of derro is derro," but it did. Sorry for the error.

It's alright. We all know that Shrike nicked the s from derros. :P

Is more than two Derros together called a Doom of Derros, or a Dread of Derros?

A Dastardly of Derros? :)

An asylum of Derros?

I would just like to note here in advance that torture of anyone by the PCs is a red line for me as a player, and I said as much back when GM Harrow offered to pick up this game.

Always good to make lines like that real clear, but I (at least) wasn't planning on anything more intensive that a mean look and an intimidate check.

Ah, I re-read and totally get where you're coming from Shrike! The bones breaking sentence was meant to be them thinking about swinging in with fully lethal damage, then reining themself back in with the next one.

Ah, I see. Okay, no worries. Thanks for the clarification, Pava.

We're currently just waiting on one move or standard action from Abella for the surprise round, right?

Posted! Work has been relentless today

Notes: Shrike threatens the spaces directly around herself with the cestus and those around her but 10' away with the branched spear. Any attacks of opportunity she takes this round should have that same +1 +1 for bless and higher ground. Also a +1 for guidance on the first AoO, if any, and if Talanaliel still applies it on Audria's turn. (Tally should be giving these to Audria, don't you think? Shrike is grateful, but she'll bring that up after this fight.)

She is moving out of a possibly-threatened square (if they have weapons in hand already or natural attacks) next to the blue derro during her move, but creatures can't take attacks of opportunity while flat-footed unless they have the Combat Reflexes feat.

Pava doesn't need flanking with Shrike to make a sneak attack this round, for the same reason of the derros being flat-footed that Shrike got her lesser hidden strike. (Unless they have Uncanny Dodge or a similar ability, I guess.) However, it could be useful on opportunity attacks and in future rounds.

Hop Up is a DC 10 Acrobatics check, which she can't fail even if she rolls a 1. I guess I'll roll it though, to see if she does it easily or barely makes it.
Acrobatics DC 10, Hop Up: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (15) + 9 = 24

Gracefully, elegantly, with poise and purpose it is.

Question about Attacks of Opportunity, if Tally's hiding under Shrike's hood, would the derro get an attack of opportunity on her if she casts guidance on Shrike?

Unless the derro has Combat Reflexes, it shouldn't, for the same reason of it being flat-footed until it acts in the combat.

True, but I meant more generally.

Slang note: Cracked - crazy.

Nice crit, Pava. 37 total nonlethal damage, meaning some of it must have been lethal as well, is a lot over just two rounds.

Yeah that was how they used the slang as well :-)
And btw, 'wheedling' is the perfect way to describe what Pava's doing to get the wand!