Well, shoot! That means a Will of +16 or better, which means that this guy is going to be fairly tough to beat in a fight, and tough to sweet-talk out of a fight. Kka's Diplomacy is non-existent (surprising, I know), so she's not going to Make much of an Impression. Anyone with decent Diplomacy want to give it a shot before we take our lumps?
By the by, this weekend I'm on another road trip. This time heading back to Spain from Italy. I should be able to post along the way once I get to my hotels in the evening, but if something happens and I fall silent, you'll know why.
Prequel Kvit has officially completed the beginner's box!
So since he leveled up there, he should be level 5 now here, right? Pretty sure that's how it should work. (Not serious)
Eh, sure.
Sorry, that "eh, sure" sounded more dismissive than it was. It makes sense to use that lore in this case, didn't want to sound like I'm throwing you a bone.
18? Lay on Hands is 6 per spell level, I think. That should be 12 at the moment, right?
Also, the Wisp has an AC of 27 (now 25 due to Snagging Strike). That's a lot, but I thought I'd mention it in case people want to use Hero Points.
I actually think you have it right. flat checks for Hidden and Concealed should be done at the time of targeting, before you roll to see if you would otherwise succeed.
The Hidden description states that When targeting a hidden creature, before you roll to determine your effect, you must attempt a DC 11 flat check. If you fail, you don’t affect the creature, though the actions you used are still expended—as well as any spell slots, costs, and other resources. You remain flat-footed to the creature, whether you successfully target it or not.
Despite it seeming pretty clear to me, there is apparently some disagreement on this out there, but I've always just added the flat check roll right before the attack roll if it is needed.
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A reminder about Snagging Strike.
It does not imposed the Grabbed condition.
It imposes the Flat-footed condition so long as the creature remains adjacent.
Kind of a "grabbed lite"?
I actually think you have it right. flat checks for Hidden and Concealed should be done at the time of targeting, before you roll to see if you would otherwise succeed.
The Hidden description states that When targeting a hidden creature, before you roll to determine your effect, you must attempt a DC 11 flat check. If you fail, you don’t affect the creature, though the actions you used are still expended—as well as any spell slots, costs, and other resources. You remain flat-footed to the creature, whether you successfully target it or not.
Despite it seeming pretty clear to me, there is apparently some disagreement on this out there, but I've always just added the flat check roll right before the attack roll if it is needed.
Eh, I don't mind whichever way you do it, as long as you're consistent and not using the preview window to cheat your actions. That's how I've been doing it, at least. Also saves me a line of text, the odds of me missing a to hit are (generally) higher than the flat 5 for concealment. Saves me a Preview window.
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And yeah, as Lough said, the creature's still invisible. It's not a complete grab, although many people like to flavour it as such. I not-so-subtly hinted at splashing it with water to at least make it Concealed, if someone does so I'm willing to fudge the order to make the most favourable outcome possible.
OH MY GOSH I'm a dingleberry. My brain went "we're level 5" for some reason and I posted as such. I am very sorry for the confusion!
I not-so-subtly hinted at splashing it with water to at least make it Concealed, if someone does so I'm willing to fudge the order to make the most favourable outcome possible.
I was hoping that Kvit would do the honors and splash a little water on the creature to turn Kka's miss into a hit, but he decided on Produce Flame instead.
That leaves Cherry as the only one left able to splash water. Making it concealed will let Kka's strike hit home, but unfortunately, not Kvit's because his roll was < 5. Maybe if Cherry splashes water, Kvit will consider using his Hero Point to reroll his flat check :).
How close to the creature must one be to splash the water? 30ft? Melee range? Let's hope the former. Does the water splashing interact action itself require a hidden flat check? Does it count as an Attack for MAP?
If you want to Hero Point it, I'll allow the nat 20 on the intimidation to also count for the flat check. :)
Splashing would be melee range, no hidden check, just an action. No MAP.
I didn't think I could since he's so far back and there's several folks between him and them.
There's a small space north of the skull you can squeeze into. :)
If you want to Hero Point it, I'll allow the nat 20 on the intimidation to also count for the flat check. :)
Really? I'll take that deal. If Kvit or Cherry can't find their way to splashing water on the creature this round, then I'll burn the Hero Point to get the hit. I've got too many of those things as it is.
Your're going to have to take that, Cherry cannot generate water.
If the answer to some of those questions is just "because that's the way the AP is written" that's fine and I'll suspend my/Kvit's disbelief for now.
But I think it's a decent question. If the Roseguard thought she was dead and they didn't know about the area below the vaults, then they didn't put the barrier up for sure and likely they didn't have anything to do with it. Why would the icons help penetrate it?
Belcorra put up the barrier. The way I justified it in my head is that since they defeated Belcorra phyisically, they can also overcome her mental barrier. But yeah, this part of the AP is slightly wonky, I'll admit.
That makes some sense. I'll go with it. They defeated her once, it's destiny or some such!
Just an FYI I'll be on an extended vacation starting the 13th and continuing through the 24th. While there will be internet where I'll be, I don't know how much time I'll have to post. In particular, if we get into combat and I take too long to respond, feel free to bot me. I need to update Fuin's botting instructions to reflect his new focus spell; I'll try to make sure I do that before I leave.
Since you told us that we recognized them as Scalathraxes, creatures we've run into before, I assumed that we could use our "memories" of that fight to inform this one. I went through all our posts to determine the above information. I assumed that it was okay to do that as well as sharing it with the rest of the players to save them the 15 minutes it took me to do so.
But if you'd really rather I didn't do that, and leave it to you to determine what we actually remember, then please let me know and I'll save myself the trouble.
I'd rather not give you numbers, that feels too meta. I'm fine with "its AC/saves are high/low," but you don't know exact numbers in-game. Abilities are fair game, though.
I'd rather not give you numbers, that feels too meta. I'm fine with "its AC/saves are high/low," but you don't know exact numbers in-game. Abilities are fair game, though.
Sorry I wasn't clear.
I'm not asking for exact numbers from the GM. I'm just wondering if it's okay to use the public information we gleaned from a previous encounter with the same type of creature and post it for all the players to see.
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Ah, sorry about that. Yeah, you can look at past encounters with the same creatures. You have a long-term memory. :)
I like that there actually is a second encounter with these things. It's proof that Belcorra actually beamed creatures from the lighthouse to Otari, and not just a random encounter.
No adjustment necessary.
Kka had just enough Speed to get to the square east of Red, just not enough to tumble through Red because of the difficult terrain. It was from the square east of Red that she then attempted the tumble through and failed. Success or fail, she was going to end up in the square east of Red, the one she's in currently.
Red didn't go down? Shoot! Kka's going to visit Libitina again, isn't she? :)
I'm heading to bed. The next time you hear from me will probably be when I reach California in about 30+ hours.
Oops, my week has been so crazy I've been crashing hard every night.
So sorry about my spotty posting. I am back from my vacation but I brought the flu with me apparently! Stupid stowaways.
I will try to post tonight before bed.
Quick check: there's a combat in this level with several creatures that are way below your level. They each only have a handful of HP and won't pose a problem to you, but sometimes it's just fun to squish bad guys left and right. But on the other hand, since this is play by post and things take a long time, I want to keep things interesting (not necessarily that I'm out to kill your characters, just provide a cool challenge). Should I run that combat, or skip it?
Also, on the opposite side of the spectrum, there's one encounter that's just plain ridonkulous. Level 8 creature that's immune to magic and 30 AC. And a way to heal itself. I'm not gonna run that one. I was thinking of modifying it, but I'd need to change so much that it's easier to leave it out altogether (or find a random different creature, but I'm not a fan of random encounters). I don't think anyone will complain here.
Quick check: there's a combat in this level with several creatures that are way below your level. They each only have a handful of HP and won't pose a problem to you, but sometimes it's just fun to squish bad guys left and right. But on the other hand, since this is play by post and things take a long time, I want to keep things interesting (not necessarily that I'm out to kill your characters, just provide a cool challenge). Should I run that combat, or skip it?
I'm good either way. I'm happy to go with whatever the rest of the group decides or leave it in your hands.
Also, on the opposite side of the spectrum, there's one encounter that's just plain ridonkulous. Level 8 creature that's immune to magic and 30 AC. And a way to heal itself. I'm not gonna run that one. I was thinking of modifying it, but I'd need to change so much that it's easier to leave it out altogether (or find a random different creature, but I'm not a fan of random encounters). I don't think anyone will complain here.
Holy smokes! A level 8 creature against a group of level 4 PCs sounds like a recipe for a massacre unless they provide us a way to soften it up. I recently went through one of the Dark Archive mini-scenarios where we were a group of level 10 PCs up against a level 14 creature...
Non-spoiler tl;dr: We fought well and got good rolls but got TPKed anyway.
I'm good either way. A third suggestion would be to just RP through it. Basically just let Kka and Lough wade through while the rest of us casually stroll behind.
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The Level 8 v level 4s definitely sounds ridonkulous. Unless the scenario has it with some sort of handicap or us having some sort of boost, I don't see how that'd work. At +10 to hit, Kvit would have to be rolling 20s just to hit (with telekinetic projectile only since it's also immune to magic). As much as I like a challenge, that doesn't sound doable.
Yeah, level 8 seems... odd, to say the least. Is there an obvious plot point that helps mitigate those numbers? If not, a +4 lvl creature is basically a guaranteed TPK. I'd need to roll a natty 19 just to hit the thing, and I'm a fighter! That's just insane.
I'm also fine skipping the trivial fights. If we were playing in person, I'd want to do at least one of them just to have the fun of face-rolling a fight to feel like beasts once in a while. But PbP is significantly slower by its nature, so cutting extraneous fluff like that is usually preferable.
No, it's just a straight up fight versus a souped up will-o'-wisp. Well, apparently it's supposed to be a "secret boss" you can come back to later, but I don't see the point of it. It's just not a fun fight. Link to the creature here, if you're interested (Archives is down, so this is the next best thing).
Okay I guess if it's a "secret boss" then it's sort of meant to be Easter Egg-y to begin with, that's less bizarre. At least, as long as they spell it out in the AP so the party can't just like... accidentally take a wrong turn in the dungeon and stumble into a TPK.
Yeah, I mean, it's a bunch of stuff happening, but not a lot to do. I could've maybe played out the weird corridor thing, but I felt like it could get frustrating quickly without immediate feedback.
Very true! One of the downsides to PbP is that certain scenes just don't flow well and need to be either retooled, railroaded, or removed entirely. I think the benefits balance it out, but I will say that scene would probably be a blast to run in a live game.
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Will Save vs Empty Death (DC 27): 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (7) + 8 = 15
Is there enough available space for more than one person to enter the room? I see a lot of debris in the other squares. Is that regular, difficult or impassable terrain? If the latter, then Kka will need to use her 3rd action to exit the room and make space for the others to beat up on the ghost.
I'll say you can stand on the trash piles, but you'll be flat-footed because of unstable ground. And it'd be difficult terrain indeed.
Hah, guess I should have read this first and then posted. Editing my post now.
Travelling today - could someone assist me in moving my token into range?
I moved Lough into the room so that he's flanking with Fuìn... buuuut it seems the point is moot now that the ghost is no more.
I looked at the attack rolls once more and saw that I got cross-eyed, looking at the attack targeting Kvit as targeting Kka. Kka also got hit. You and your big beak. :P
Oh, thank goodness. For a minute there I thought we'd stumbled into bizarro world where everything is backwards. Good to know that business as usual reigns supreme after all. :)
Can we assume that Lough shares his newfound knowledge of the leech man with the group? If not, then Kka will assume that she needs to either Feint, Flank or Tumble Behind to flat-foot Volluk and get her Sneak Attack (which won't do anything due to precision damage immunity).
She may try and Flank to flat-foot it anyway to get the -2 AC, but there is a table in the square on the other side of Volluk from Lough (who seems to have split into two). It might have been a bit more convenient if Lough had attacked Volluk on the diagonal, especially if that table square cannot be moved into (difficult terrain?).
Even if she manages to hit the creature, with a physical resistance of 6+ and no Sneak Attack damage, it's going to be hard to do anything with her shortsword. I think Kvit and Cherry will need to take the lead in this fight, with Lough, Fuìn and Kka acting as meat shields to protect them.
Yeah, you can assume Lough shared that information. It's easier for the group that way.
I'd say you can knock the table over for one action.
And yeah, the damage resistance is tough. You'll have to roll high on your Striking weapons to leave a dent.
@Lough/Rainzax If it is not okay to include Lough in the AOE of the acid splash I will take back my turn.
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Not a lot Kvit has for this either as far as burst damage.
I have two more fireball beads for 4d6 fire each, but with his apparently amazing reflex save, it won't do a lot and it'll definitely hurt Lough more.
Other things Kvit can do:
Open to thoughts/ideas/votes.
A more general note, I am finding it I have a hard time doing anything useful with a third action (unless I'm sustaining a spell).
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I'd say the swarm definitely penetrates its resistance. The whole idea is that weapon attacks only focus on a small part of the mass, while the swarm is essentially death by a thousand cuts.
As for third actions, I'd say Quick Alchemy helps a lot, as well as grabbing other consumables for next turn. Otherwise, Shield is always a good option.
@Cherry
I think you get to make a strike with it as part of sustaining the spell. Spiritual Weapon
... Each time you Sustain the Spell, you can move the weapon to a new target within range (if needed) and Strike with it...
@Cherry
Your Bless spell is not all that useful where you are currently standing. Instead of casting it, it might be better for all if you moved out of the darkness and into the room (just West of Fuìn, for example). That way Lough will be able to see, obviating the need for a flat check, and so will you (and Kvit), allowing you to make the Spiritual Weapon strike.
I didn't want to be blunt about it and decide your turns for you, but I agree with Kka. A big part of the party can't see in the dark, and you're the only one with a Light spell, I think. I see Kvit has it in his spellbook, but I don't know if he has it prepped right now.