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I think that maybe adventuring together will ease the relationship and trust issues.
If not, we can always set both characters at a table, surrounded by full bottles, and let Cayden do his magic.^^
On a side note,I did have a character in another campaign who had is fare of clashes with his companions. He wasn't evil either, but could but quite antagonitic (a man born and raised in Cheliax, hating slavers, devils and devil worshippers, who called an halfling character "slip" out of habit, and who took offense from an elf speaking to him in Infernal just because he was Chelaxian. Funny thing was that he was himself a Fighter/Bloodrager of Infernal ancestry, and had nearly a dual personnality, always fighting to keep his humanity against his Infernal urges...).
It made an interesting character, in fact it's still my favorite character on the forum (and the others were great role players too), but sometimes things were quite heated in game, and the elf player too things too personnaly.
What I'm trying to say is that tension between character can add an edge to a story, give it some extra spice, but we should be careful about the balance of things and always remember that this is just a game, and it's supposed to be fun.
I think I have a better understanding now of the issue—if it’s a well-known fact in the setting that Razmir is really just an evil wizard tyrant (the innermost secret of the faith) then there’s not really any mystery or doubt to stem a justified urge to stop the spread of the religion. A Razmiran character is only going to work on the premise that there’s enough secrecy, propaganda, and fear keeping all of this information about the faith and it’s methods from spreading easily and becoming widespread knowledge. Let’s move Yraelzin into the background, and I’ll see about maybe working another character concept up later.
I'm sorry, maybe I should have been up front sooner OOC with what Brannart knew and how he knew it. Was trying to bring it in organically.
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IMO, Yraelzin is a great, interesting character, and I'd like to see him evolve. He has always worked within the party, and not against, even if he has his own agenda, which is in fact common to all priests: spread the word of their god.
A few question:
couldn't Brannart's opinion change, little by little, when the Razmirian will have shown his worth in the group, and its loyalty?
couldn't Yaelzin be part of a small schysmatic sect inside the Razmirian's religion (hapens into every religion!), one who disagree on the evil shenanigans and more about laws and regulations, but still fully support the theory of Razmir being a God worth worshiping? That would explain why he's seeking a fresh start in a new country..
OR..
Yaelzin could in fact be even MORE heroic, starting his OWN little sect, being a fervent Razmiran BUT wanting to distance himself from the evil deeds. But no one knows that (yet!) so that would explain why Brannart is full of pride and prejudice, supposing he is a "common" follower of Razmir .
If Brannart doesn't admire and support him after that, I don't know what I can do.
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I'll leave the question of whether to keep the current character in the game to Yraelzin's own judgement. I've really liked having Yraelzin around, but I also understand the desire to avoid playing into strong headwinds all the time.
In my experience at least, a bit of interparty conflict is generally a good thing so long as it avoids two things. First, players can separate characters from their players so the distinction between character conflicts and players conflicts is firmly understood and abided by. Second characters don't actively work to undermine or harm other characters.
Conflicts rooted in differences in personality, morality, ideology, can be wonderful grist for character interaction and development. On the occasions when I've played in campaigns where everyone is super agreeable all the time, they tend to go stale very quickly.
@Sho: To the point you made about Yraelzin moving away from hardcore faith in Razmir, the possible seeds for such a thing are already built into his background story. I'll also note there is no faith requirement built into the Razmiran Priest archetype. It appears they cannot "fall" like a cleric or paladin.
I'd be willing to listen. It's hard to see how you can worship Razmir while rejecting the evil deeds that Razmir himself is doing as ruler of Razmiran. His priests can't be doing evil things in his name without his knowledge, because he is omniscient. But maybe there is a way to figure it out.
It is clear that Brannart knew more about the faith than Yraelzin's player expected he would know, so that did complicate things. But from Brannart's point of view, the most important part is not that Razmir isn't a god - it's the tyranny. He'd have the same opposition to a PC trying to convert Andoran to Asmodeus.
I’m enjoying the interaction between the two and I am really excited to see where this goes. I would hope Yraelzin stays around and we get to find out.
I am glad we are having this conversation. Looks like, as a player group, we are all very reasonable folks and on the same page. I too do NOT want to see Yraelzin leave. I really like this character and enjoy the interactions between him and Brannart. Fenna too.
Maybe I made a mistake by revealing too much about Razmir. Brannart went in search of information from some high-level clerics. It made sense to me that some would have this knowledge. If this information in the Pathfinder Setting, is generally thought to be a well kept secret then I missed that point when doing my research. I truly apologize if I made that mistake.
We'll get to the AP soon, and things will work themselves out. Brannart and Yraelzin might stay at odds, but they will have the AP objectives in common.
By the way, well done and well played with healing the girl. (temporarily). Yraelzin has all sorts of tricks.
Sorry for the delay here folks. I have been pulling triple duty at my work. I have so many staff calling out due to illness at the moment and have been putting in some long hours. Hope you're all still with me (you too Yraelzin), and I'll catch things up over the weekend.
Stay well, wash your hands, and drink a healing potion with dinner. Dr's Orders
Hope you get some rest soon :/ Stay healthy.
Still here. Get well.
I know the feeling. Do what ya can.
Still around, checking in.
Likewise, still here.
posted something quick to keep the story flowing. Did not spend too much time in front of the screen this weekend. We had some beautiful early Spring weather here in PA and had to take advantage of the sunshine and the extra hour and hike some trails.
Exactly the right thing to be doing after a long, nasty winter!
Like I said above, I don't think I have the right character for this campaign, so please assume Yraelzin fades into the background. I really enjoyed RPing with you all, and if I get some time I'll try to work up another character concept down the line.
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One more idea, Yraelzin.
At some point Yraelzin would have to see the light. That could happen sooner rather than later.
I had seen the Gameplay post last night but didn't have time to write up a reply before you posted this.
Brannart doesn't want to see Yraelzin killed.
And he wants to reassure the people.
And he would like Yraelzin to see the light.
Maybe there's a way to achieve all of these goals.
My plan was to ask the priests of Abadar and Erastil to intervene. To demonstrate their own holy power - familiar to the people of Andoran - and reassure them there is no evil spirit.
For example, Brannart and a number of sailors could cut their palms with daggers, and have a priest Channel to heal.
A true Channel. Healing maybe 20 people of their injuries, all at once, with no fears of doubt or 'evil spirits' later undoing this healing.
To Yraelzin, this would be such a glaring contradiction of what he has been taught about divine healing that he would out of necessity start questioning everything.
It was what I was planning to do. Or we can just let this go.
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In my opinion Yraelzin doesn’t need to go.
In my mind Brannart’s belief that Razmir is evil should not be universally know/ understood/accepted. It would be like someone saying that some modern religion is evil because of the actions of a few or because bad things happen to good people. It is easy for people to justify their bad actions as good (or vise versa).
I think the easiest thing to do would be to adjust Brannart’s knowledge of Razmir.
Personally my PC thinks Yraelzin is crazy/eccentric/weird but will allow him the freedom to believe/worship/convert whatever/whoever he wants as long as he doesn’t harm others or infringe on their freedom.
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I don't know, I think things are a little more complicated than that.
It's one thing if we're simply talking about a priest, etc. of a disfavored deity. Everyone can just say "live and let live" and it doesn't really matter because the impact is limited to the character/worshipper.
In this case that wouldn't apply. Since Yraelzin is actively evangelizing with the aim to gain converts over whom he has sway, or perhaps greater authority, "live and let live" isn't sufficient. It's no longer a matter of adjusting to each other's quirks or preferences. There is an aspect of factionalizing the colony that could enter the picture. Maybe that makes things really interesting, maybe it makes things really difficult. If Fenna sees that Yraelzin can't just be laughed off, she'll be right with Brannart in an instant. She's way more serious and determined when it comes to her Milanite faith than it might seem, and both Cayden and Milani are (im)mortal enemies of Razmir.
Now it's possible Yraelzin's player intended to moderate him over time and to take this problem off the table. This is what I'd assumed would happen. But ideas for doing this have been floated here in the discussion thread and it seems they weren't appealing. Maybe my assumption was wrong and that wasn't what he wanted to do, so he withdrew the character.
I guess the way I see it at this point is options for keeping Yraelzin in the party have been floated, and it's been made clear that he's welcome. If the player is still withdrawing him, there must be a good reason and it's best to trust his judgement. Even if it makes me sad I'll have to throw my list of awesome Yraelzin putdowns to use in the future in the trash. :p
I do hope we'll see him back in the game as a new character though, he's been awesome to play with.
I would be open to having Brannart's knowledge retconned.
I will say as a more general thought that freedom of religion (which I support IRL) would be a very different thing in a world where Asmodeus, Rovagug, and the like are demonstrably real entities of incalculable power who use mortal agents to work towards truly evil goals.
Brannart's views are not mine because he operates in a vastly different context than I do. He has actually fought to save Golarion from the incarnate souls of evil mortals. How would that change his view? For me, having such a different context is part of the fun of a fantasy RPG.
I'd be happy to have in-character discussions about faith, religion, gods, souls, and so on, but keeping it very grounded in Golarion lore rather than trying to apply the context of the real world. If anybody were to happen to read an inference about real-world issues where none was intended, things could get dicey.
My apologies in all of this. I was questioning from the start how these characters would work together, but the concepts were awesome so I thought 'go for it'.
It seemed inevitable that Brannart and Yraelzin would clash at some point. When Brannart wanted to garner specific information regarding Razmir, I did some research. It did and does make sense to me that some higher-ups in any clergy would have some information on Razmir. By using the Tears of Razmir information, (something I knew Yraelzin was not peddling), my hope was that Brannart might ease back and Yraelzin might start questioning his teachings.
This all backfired on me. Honestly, I was struggling to avoid PVP. I thought that it might be possible.
I hope Jhaeman does not leave us. Whether we keep Yraelzin or induct a new pc, Jhaeman is a fun person to play with.
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By using the Tears of Razmir information, (something I knew Yraelzin was not peddling), my hope was that Brannart might ease back and Yraelzin might start questioning his teachings.
Yes, I was really hoping for some surprised/confused reaction from Yraelzin about the Tears so that Brannart could feel more at ease. I should have PM'd the player to give them a "heads up" about what was going on before raising the matter in character.
I have a face!
Much better. I’m glad they were able to fix the problem.
I have a face!
Woot! Woot!
Running out of time tonight, but I was hoping to do some more individual posts.
Nymbleth, did you want to discuss anything specific with Alba?
Kowal, anything specific with Sanch?
Malakar, I will have you meet up with the Navigator to discuss her journeys and at some point have the Navigator reach out to Merrek for a ship's blessing.
Sho, I will have you meet the woman with the tattoos
Vexas, Any specific escapade or sneaky thing you would like to try with your Halfling friend, Kalcora Weems?
Anything I am missing or something new to add?
Vexas, Any specific escapade or sneaky thing you would like to try with your Halfling friend, Kalcora Weems?
Likely, he would want to people-watch with her and find the who he thought was the haughtiest, wealthiest noble or merchant to have a go at a light swindle.
If, instead, they notice one who somehow holds power over another on the boat (say, a badly treated spouse), they might instead try to otherwise harmlessly tip the scales there and embarrass the aggressor.
Not at this point.
Ran out of time. Need to get some sleep. I have not forgotten about you Nymbleth and Merrek. Will try and give you some interesting things for the voyage. Malakar, I'll also get to your inquiry, if no one else does.
Just looking for any interaction. Nobody seems to like Sharkboy :(
Just looking for any interaction. Nobody seems to like Sharkboy :(
I like 'Sharkboy'. Will play later today.
Just looking for any interaction. Nobody seems to like Sharkboy :(
We're also asking the GM to run a lot of separate threads, whereas we can interact as much as possible independently of that. I say that not having done a great job of adding in alot, but I can have vexas interact with him! For example: would he have an ability to get the halfing an easy supply of insects and would he more likely want in on the hi-jinx or be an innocent, unknowing accomplice?
Just looking for any interaction. Nobody seems to like Sharkboy :(
You did give him a 5 Charisma.
Mostly kidding.
Yeah, any PC can approach any other PC and engage with them at any time.
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@GM, you are really doing an incredible job here. Creating all these interactions for such a large party.
Yes :)
Now I've just got to live up to the opportunity and flesh out this character better.
Brannart, thank you! That is quite the compliment. These characters are great, and I am enjoying fleshing out some NPC's to provide these interactions. Some are just for fun while I plan to have some interaction play into the plot further into the AP.
I work for the Oregon Department of Human Services. We're expecting to be hit with maybe the biggest rush of benefits applications ever due to statewide service sector closings.
I'm going to be pulled off my normal job to help process intakes somewhere between sometimes and a lot, and it's possible overtime could become involved.
I don't know what this is going to do to my availability right now, posts from me could become spotty at times depending on how things unfold. It's getting pretty crazy right now.
Stay safe!
I am feeling it too. I work in a medical clinic where some staff are sick and others have child care issues. I'm neither sick nor have children so I find myself working double duty at times.
Most importantly, stay safe. Join the game when you can. If it's too much, take a break and come back when you can. If this starts to effect most of us, I could call a hiatus until we can rejoin.
For now stay safe. Thanks for the communication. Can't wait to flirt with Fenna again. :)
Vexas, I should have used the word 'unfurled'. I was a bit tired last night. Sorry for the confusion.
Np!
Hello All!
I hope this post finds you all safe and healthy. Working in healthcare, I have been busy. I am making every attempt to post daily, but by the end of the week (Thursday, Friday), I am pooped and far less creative. So if you do not hear from me, I will always pick things up over the weekend or at least communicate my absence to you.
I am having a great time developing NPC's with you and running little mini scenarios. Some will come into play later in the AP, while others are just for fun.
I plan on getting to the AP soon, but it seems (hopefully) everyone is still enjoying developing their characters.
Currently, (meta-gaming here) I have Vexas starting a little scavenger hunt with puzzles to solve akin to an Escape Room. If you are interested in this, feel free to insert your characters into this fun, little scenario.
Of course, Vexas, if you are not interested in pursuing this, let me know and I will start the AP earlier.
Your thoughts are always welcome, while I attempt to run a fun, enjoyable, and thought provoking game.
Cheers!
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I hope this post finds you all safe and healthy. Working in healthcare, I have been busy. I am making every attempt to post daily, but by the end of the week (Thursday, Friday), I am pooped and far less creative. So if you do not hear from me, I will always pick things up over the weekend or at least communicate my absence to you.
I think we remain understanding and really don't want to impose undue expectation on you, especially in this time. The game is fun, but time and creative energy aren't free, so definitely take care of yourself most of all. While the rules and posting expectations are ultimately yours, I hope it helps to know that players have realistic expectations and appreciation of your time.
Currently, (meta-gaming here) I have Vexas starting a little scavenger hunt with puzzles to solve akin to an Escape Room. If you are interested in this, feel free to insert your characters into this fun, little scenario.
I'm absolutely game for it, and also happy to take others along.
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I know that I took more than my share of table time in the prior bit of this voyage, and it did not go the way I think anybody would have liked, so Brannart will remain in the background unless called upon.
As to your situation, join us when you can. I hope this game is more of a respite for you than a chore. Let us know what we can do to help. This whole thing is mind-boggling and I have the greatest respect for those who work in healthcare. And grocery stores. And food production, power generation, Internet maintenance, and a thousand things I am forgetting. At the other end of the spectrum, my heart breaks for those who cannot do their jobs at all, like those in entertainment and hospitality - live theater, conventions, amusement parks, concerts, most restaurants, and the hot dog vendors at Fenway Park. And at the same time I am so appreciative of those who are essential services that need to keep working. I have a pretty good job that I can do from home, and I know how fortunate I am in that regard. But even that doesn't matter without those essential personnel doing their jobs.
Very glad to have this medium for social interaction during this time.