Sebecloki's Untitled Campaign

Game Master Sebecloki


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But the feats and skills are going to reference other parts of the system, as will the classes, like the changes in the combat system.

Porphyra also has a searchable SRD. What is the big difference that would make that worth doing? I see the main issue as scaling feats. I don't see why it's better to use one version that's further from 1e than other which is closer and has a searchable SRD.


There comes a point where you kind of hit a critical mass of BS and adding a fourth entire game system to the mix is that point IMO.


Nobody I know has any desire to use Porphyra. I certainly do not. There is nothing in that system that is strictly better than base PF1. The fighter, for example, is the exact same class, except it can ignore ability score pre-reqs for their bonus feats(useless in this game) and they get stamina, which we all get already. Oh, and there's no sorcerer in Porphyra, so that's lame.

However, the same can not be said for Kirthfinder, which adds a ton of great additions to the game. Feats and skills are so much better, and if somebody wants to use the classes, they are all damn solid as well.

It's really not that big of a deal which we use, I just don't understand the desire to use Porphyra as your base in the first place, as it's not all that better or different from PF1.

Considering your love of 3.x, I'm honestly surprised you don't use Kirthfinder more. I feel like it's the perfect system for you.


River of Sticks suggested it as a way to get an easily accessible group of scaled feats. Its in an srd, and its searchable. Its also easily compatible with 1e.

I don't want to get into an unnecessary argument about this since I enjoy your play contributions immensely. Currently, I'm seeing a desire to use a couple of feats and other features specific to your character, and that isn't a sufficient reason for me to rework the design space of the whole game around that build issue.

I've already highlighted some of the issues -- feats or other abilities referencing alternative combat rules or other features that don't exist outside this system. I don't really see how your comment addresses that issue.


I've been in two, albeit short, combats so far in my Kirthfinder game. As far as I can tell, there's no changes. Which is why I didn't address that issue, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

However, considering you're already allowing us to use two different types of combat actions, and to swap between them, I feel like whatever might be different with Kirthfinder could just be ignored or made to work within the rules we have.

As for why I'm even bothering to advocate for Kirthfinder to be used, either in addition to or in place of Porphyra:

From the very beginning of this recruitment, you have said time and again that this is basically going to be game that is skill heavy. Lots of intrigue, puzzle solving, investigation, etc.

Every single skill has been expanded upon, granting more and varied uses based on the number of ranks you have and if they are class skills or not.

As for scaling feats, here's the Kirthfinder version of Diehard:

Diehard:

Benefit: You automatically stabilize when reduced
to -1 or fewer hp, without the need for an Endurance
check. You still die if reduced to a negative hp total
equal to your Constitution score, however.

If you have at least 6 ranks in Endurance, you
automatically succeed at ferocity (acting while
dying; Chapter 4), without the need for a skill
check. You are still staggered, however. This
supersedes the Remain Conscious feat OA .

If you have at least 11 ranks in Endurance, you
are immune to death from massive damage (you
might still die from hp loss, but need not succeed
at a Fortitude save when taking 50+ damage).
You are similarly immune to coup de grâce
attempts (you still take critical damage, but need
not save vs. Fortitude to avoid dying).

If you have at least 16 ranks in Endurance, you
can act normally when at -1 hp until you die; you
are not staggered. Whenever you take damage
and your final negative hp total to exceeds your
Constitution score, you can temporarily stave off
death by succeeding at an Endurance check (DC
10 + number of hp below zero). There is no limit to
how many times you can attempt this, but you
must check separately each time you take hp
damage, and eventually the DC becomes too high
for you to meet. This ability emulates the immortal
fortitude stance ToB .

And here's the Porphyra version: Diehard

Most feats are the same.

Finally, Kirthfinder also folds Epic into the core system, which is really nice as well.


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I'll throw my two cents in; Kirthfinder has much better scaling feats/abilities, frequently tied to skill ranks or investment in skills. On a personal level, I enjoy the martial focused class design much more. There are a lot fewer feat taxes, it's easier to get in full attacks/ equivalent abilities and still stay mobile, etc. The class design is much more cohesive as well.

I'm good either way. Kirthfinder does present some compatability concerns in terms of playing nicely with the myriad other sub systems and abilities, but we wouldn't be posting interest in this game if we weren't willing to deal with some level of that anyways. Having looked at Porphya, the nicest thing about it for me was the scaling feats, but even that doesn't matter too much with the high number of feats we can pick + artifacts offering more. Mostly I'm enthused about the concept and the mechanical crunch, regardless of flavor of crunch.


The main issue for me is compatibility -- Kirthfinder materials reference issues like 'synergy' with other Kirthfinder classes, and frequently as I recall. That's going to lead to dozens of corner cases and gray areas about 'is this other ability the equivalent of the thing that's in synergy with this other things -- could it be, is it if I do this other thing, etc.'.

I also recall that its action economy differs from the core version -- that's a big issue for feat and ability interactions.

I think we'd have to commit to using those classes and racebuilidng guidelines as the base and then only adding other subsystems that we'd already studied how they would interact. Or we need to have clear rules about all the stuff that's automatically ruled out because it references another part of the system like synergy cases. The thing I'm trying to avoid is the dozens and dozens of questions about 'does this thing count for this thing, or is this equivalent to this, how does this interact with this'.

Nevertheless, I tend to be a pretty flexible DM, so I'm willing to consider these proposals under the following caveats:

I'm open to drawing up a set of KF conversion guidelines for this campaign, but I'd want more systematic commitment to it, and a lot of assistance in developing the conversion -- I don't have time to write this all up, so I'd be giving out assignments to different players, like someone would be responsible for developing the defiling magic system or psionics, the multi-class equivalents of all the classes people want to play, etc.

I'm getting the sense that more of a hodge podge of material is being suggested -- I'd want clear guidelines -- is it feats and skills, or also class abilities? I don't want individual requests based on build interests one character, I'd want a systematic set of rules for what can and can't be used that answers lots of questions before they're asked.

I'd also want someone else to field all the interaction questions about whether this given feat is equivalent to this other subsystem. I don't know the system well enough to answer those questions easily, and I don't have time right now working 50 hours a week to research each case as myraids of such issues inevitably arise.


I feel like we're already going to have a lot of corner cases with all the various rules, subsystems, and variants we're using.

I'm not entirely certain there will all that many such questions that arise from using Kirthfinder's skills and feats, but I'll do my best to rule on them.

Beyond that, I'm not sure we should use anything else. If there's a feat or skill that references the magic system, or some other thing we're not adopting, don't take it. It's not that difficult.

As for the classes, I feel like most of them can be played side by side with what's already allowed. *Especially* with your allowing us pretty much any 3pp class.

The Kirthfinder rogue and fighter(two classes I'm pretty familiar with) are vastly better than their Paizo counterparts, but they aren't much better(if at all) than say the Legendary Rogue/Fighter.

That said, we might want to not allow the magic using classes since we aren't using the Kirthfinder magic system. Not sure it really matters, as I feel most are using the Spheres system instead.


Monkeygod wrote:

I feel like we're already going to have a lot of corner cases with all the various rules, subsystems, and variants we're using.

I'm not entirely certain there will all that many such questions that arise from using Kirthfinder's skills and feats, but I'll do my best to rule on them.

Beyond that, I'm not sure we should use anything else. If there's a feat or skill that references the magic system, or some other thing we're not adopting, don't take it. It's not that difficult.

As for the classes, I feel like most of them can be played side by side with what's already allowed. *Especially* with your allowing us pretty much any 3pp class.

The Kirthfinder rogue and fighter(two classes I'm pretty familiar with) are vastly better than their Paizo counterparts, but they aren't much better(if at all) than say the Legendary Rogue/Fighter.

That said, we might want to not allow the magic using classes since we aren't using the Kirthfinder magic system. Not sure it really matters, as I feel most are using the Spheres system instead.

For these suggestions, I can go ahead and rule on the class issue -- I think we should just use the legendary rouge and fighter then -- I don't see any reason to include another system under those circumstances if those are the classes you're thinking about, and the legendary games options are more obviously and easily compatible.

I'm still not clear on the skills and feats issue. It seems like we'd be using a subset of the material that doesn't conflict with other elements, and I'm not really sure how that would work yet, I'd have to see more examples.

Based on those considerations, I'm still inclined to not use any KF material unless it presents something that only exists in a 3pp. source otherwise, like a leadership system.


im like 2/3 done


I tentatively will call the primary two done. Just smoothing down the rough patches and working on the cohorts.


Do we still have interest in this? I have some more ideas for this campaign I've been toying with -- particularly what the vanished high priest is up to exactly.

I understand it takes a long time to build these characters.


It kind of hit my breaking point, particularly with the length. Too much stuff piled onto an already bloated charop exercise.


I am still interested, but it's definitely going to take me a long time till my PC is ready.

I need to rework Hamza and Aleister, and then probably create my PC for Numenera all before I get back to work on my character for this game.


Hi Sebecloki, a few Qs:

1) Do we have the latest complete character creation rules for this game summarized somewhere? And a link to the variant kobold you're using for this?

2) I know that we're superpowerful kobolds in this game...but wasn't totally clear what the story explanation is. Are we just rare, highly experienced kobolds? Or are there plenty of others kobolds who're just as crazily powerful as we are?

3) Do we have any characters built (or character concepts well settled) so I know if there are gaps to fill, or toes to avoid stepping on?

I have a few foggy ideas...

Thanks!


gyrfalcon wrote:

Hi Sebecloki, a few Qs:

1) Do we have the latest complete character creation rules for this game summarized somewhere? And a link to the variant kobold you're using for this?

2) I know that we're superpowerful kobolds in this game...but wasn't totally clear what the story explanation is. Are we just rare, highly experienced kobolds? Or are there plenty of others kobolds who're just as crazily powerful as we are?

3) Do we have any characters built (or character concepts well settled) so I know if there are gaps to fill, or toes to avoid stepping on?

I have a few foggy ideas...

Thanks!

I can answer a few of these for ya:

2) We're basically the societal tier right below the rulers, leaders and masters of the city/guilds/organizations/factions/etc.

3) Unsure who is still around, but my character is going to be a super skill monkey/spy/thief/assassin. Leader of a guild.


There's a lot of info on the campaign info page -- I need to update a few things -- we're working to unify the insane house rules among several games right now.

There's also some fluff info. It's a city of super powerful kobolds.


I find this very intriguing, I really like the dark sun twist and the thought you’ve put into this it should lead to a pretty in depth RP experience.

I have an idea for an Umbral Kobold that was an apprentice/bodyguard/majordomo to the missing Oracle. He feels guilty and honor bound to help find out what happened to his missing master.

As far as mechanics go I see him as an Oracle/Monk(unchained) type. Monk scaled fist archetype to tie him to his dragon heritage. On the Oracle side he would have the cold blooded curse (not sue on mystery yet, ideas/input would be welcome).

To be honest I am a little intimidated by the (vast and diverse) build rules but this seems like an intrigue/investigation first game so the mechanical side of things will sort itself out.


I'm happy to have more players -- this is going to still take at least a month to develop, so there's no hurry -- as I stated, I still need to update some stuff in the build section -- mainly archetyping gestalts and a couple other house rules that won't make much difference like health calculation. The main thing is that for your classes you can add on two archetypes instead of replacing class features.


Also, if you go in the direction of being the attache to the missing high priest, I have some super secret info for your eyes only you'll be starting the game with.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My character was finished and I focused on monk/bard and witch with endless magic and metamagic.


I like the idea of stacking archetypes, thanks for the info.

Ken will my building a monk on one side of the gestalt step on your toes?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not at all!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I might even rework the character to be purely magical, but will see about that.


Seb and Monkeygod, thanks for the answers. I have a couple different ideas. Here are a few more Qs:

1) What god(s) does the missing high priest worship? Apsu? Tiamat?

2) Is there a setting-relevant prankster-ish god?

3) Are kobolds in this setting often tinkerers?

Thanks!


gyrfalcon wrote:

Seb and Monkeygod, thanks for the answers. I have a couple different ideas. Here are a few more Qs:

1) What god(s) does the missing high priest worship? Apsu? Tiamat?

2) Is there a setting-relevant prankster-ish god?

3) Are kobolds in this setting often tinkerers?

Thanks!

This adventure occurs on a planet in a cosmology shared by several of my games. There are currently no gods though immortals or other divine creatures existed in the distant past.

The no holds are powerful draconic creatures called ningishzidda in their own language, which is essentially sumerian. They have an ancestral cult based around their male and female ruler, as well as other potenates. The wizards all venerated the chief wizard and its ancestors. The ancestors are preserved in obsidian constructs th tat are like golems. Tiamat and Apsu are philosophical concepts like yin and yang. They also venerated departed entities called the dragon kings who are different from the athasian advanced beings and ruled an empire to the south of the try region.

There is more fluff in the campaign info page. I have more imagined in have not written down. Ask me questions and I can answers them.


Also they have technology like the aliens from star gate which looks like ancient ziggurats and other ancient near eastern artifacts combined with martian high technology.


Thanks! What did the missing high priest worship? Are there clerics in this setting, and if so what grants their powers?


They are either elemental priests or they are templars who have access to a living vortex. The term priest for the ningishziddah is not a class in this case it's a cultural term. The priests are occult classes or psychic classes or summoners. It might be better to say ritualist or something like that.


The ritual master was the head of the cult of the king and queen. Each of these figures also has clerical aspects to their role like sacrifice. He also performed rituals for the Dragon kings and the ningishziddah ancestors.


I've been in and out of this recruitment a few times lurking. I like the story idea but reading through what I have I'm not real sure of the systems being used. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see what the final rules are. I have a few character ideas running through my head.


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I'm working on a hard-drinking, gun-slinging doctor (inspired a bit by Doc Holiday). Are there any particular mounts you'd recommend for a "Kobold Cowboy"?


Sebecloki wrote:

Do we still have interest in this? I have some more ideas for this campaign I've been toying with -- particularly what the vanished high priest is up to exactly.

I understand it takes a long time to build these characters.

still interested with a 2/3rds built character


Still interested. I think I might need to walk back the "twins" idea to only one PC though - the champion of the guard who kicks butt and scares/debuffs her enemies.


River of Sticks wrote:
Still interested. I think I might need to walk back the "twins" idea to only one PC though - the champion of the guard who kicks butt and scares/debuffs her enemies.

check this class out maybe youll like it


Sebecloki wrote:

Do we still have interest in this? I have some more ideas for this campaign I've been toying with -- particularly what the vanished high priest is up to exactly.

I understand it takes a long time to build these characters.

Just as a reminder:

Monkeygod wrote:


I am still interested, but it's definitely going to take me a long time till my PC is ready.

I need to rework Hamza and Aleister, and then probably create my PC for Numenera all before I get back to work on my character for this game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My PC for this game would be finished and a ton of work went into it.


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I'm still willing to run this.


Sebecloki wrote:
Do we still have interest in this? I have some more ideas for this campaign I've been toying with -- particularly what the vanished high priest is up to exactly.

Anything you're willing to share with us, or is it all secret knowledge we'll need to learn in game??


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It's part of the shared cosmology idea -- he serves some version of the alien entity that spoke to the pharaoh akhnaten on some version of earth. It's a sinister Pale Sun of which he has now become the chief mouthpiece, emissary, and prophet.

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