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On the Talk side, we're waiting for positioning clarification from Monkeygod

Hi Ash, this looks great!

Would you consider the Onmyōji class?


Oooof! Just saw about your doc issues. Sorry to hear! It sounds like you composed in Word and then tried to upload to Google Docs. Is that correct?

Thanks. I started to wade into character creation...but the level of houserules is vaster than I'd initially given it credit for.

I may yet ask again to throw my hat in, but at this point I'm going to pull back.


I posted an edit whole you were lightning-fast replying to me, but that helps. Thanks! In this case, I may be playing someone recently "born".

Added an unrelated Q above

Seb, I'm pretty sure I understand what you said, but still not how it interacts with the Physical Paragon feat.

To continue your example, could I assign 0,0,0,36,36,36... And then use the HOPF Physical Paragon to change that to 18,18,18,36,36,36 ?

If not, please tell me how it would work?

Thanks again.


...and prisoner might we'll work. I'm still playing around but thinking I might be a Briarborn, and so might have recently been reincarnated and still a bit confused about Life.

BTW, is there any Runelord or Thassilonian God who was really into plants?

Hmmm, I'm afraid I don't understand what starting stats means here. Does that means 10 in each stat? Or 10 +- one's racial modifiers? Or something else?

Can someone give me an example, say for a halfling with Physical Paragon?

Seb, how does Physical Paragon (three 18s) interact with 108 pt buy from zero? Is it effectively the same as changing the point buy to 108+18+18+18?

Hey yall, Monkeygod mentioned that you're down a player (and in the middle of rebuilding) and suggested I pop in here to express interest.

If you're open to another, I'd be happy to throw my hat in the ring. (And of course if the party is already full or whatnot, no worries, just let me know.)

I know Monkeygod is planning to rebuild as a Oracle/Sorcerer. Anyone else planning a significant change (other than revising based on the changed rules)?

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I'm working on a hard-drinking, gun-slinging doctor (inspired a bit by Doc Holiday). Are there any particular mounts you'd recommend for a "Kobold Cowboy"?

Thanks! What did the missing high priest worship? Are there clerics in this setting, and if so what grants their powers?

Seb and Monkeygod, thanks for the answers. I have a couple different ideas. Here are a few more Qs:

1) What god(s) does the missing high priest worship? Apsu? Tiamat?

2) Is there a setting-relevant prankster-ish god?

3) Are kobolds in this setting often tinkerers?


Hi Sebecloki, a few Qs:

1) Do we have the latest complete character creation rules for this game summarized somewhere? And a link to the variant kobold you're using for this?

2) I know that we're superpowerful kobolds in this game...but wasn't totally clear what the story explanation is. Are we just rare, highly experienced kobolds? Or are there plenty of others kobolds who're just as crazily powerful as we are?

3) Do we have any characters built (or character concepts well settled) so I know if there are gaps to fill, or toes to avoid stepping on?

I have a few foggy ideas...


Post incoming today. If I don't get it earlier, I'll have shared blessed brew with any one interested while sampling the taco, granting advantage on Charisma, and I'll step up with Ras. Hoping to get it in soon

Hey gang, I wanted to give you a heads up about some upcoming travel of mine:

I'll be taking my wife and daughter to Costa Rica for her 50th birthday! We travel Nov 9-23 (and I'm stretched a bit thin prepping between now & then).

I don't know what my internet will be like while I'm out of the country, but please forgive if my posts are less frequent (or terser)...and please feel free to bot if needed.

Just looked it up since I didn't recall:

If a creature’s nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious.

...so Yume will take this round's attack as nonlethal. Next round it will exceed her max HP and start switching to lethal damage.

Hi! For anyone who hasn't heard, Monkeygod has offered me a chance to take the Countess's role. I'm looking forward to joining yall (and have been around a bit on Discord recently).

I'm building a Skald / Fighter / Zealot (Void Prophet). He's tapped into the Song of the Void--the Infinite Nothingness that is All There Is--and he loves to rock out about it. Think of him as David Bowie crossed with a demigod (if that isn't superfluous). Mechanically, he's ace at everything social, has a lot of buffing options, and some significant control/melee options too.

A couple Qs:

1. I believe we're only taking BAB/Saves/Skill Pts from one of our three classes--so I will pick Skald, Zealot, or Fighter as my 'main class' and get my BAB, good/bad saves, and skill points from that class only. Is that correct?

2. In terms of Bench Press--As I've built him, when I'm performing a Raging Song, I'll give +6 Morale bonus to STR & CON, +6 Enhance bonus to DEX, +5 Morale to WILL, Fast Healing 6, and -1 to AC.

And if folks have Amplified Rage Teamwork feat--which I can frequently share--the STR, CON, and Fast Heal grow by another +4 (to +10) when you're adjacent to someone else with the feat. Let me know if that's more of a boost to the party than we want. If I drop Master & Grand Master Performer feats, all of those bonuses will be 2 less.


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Kjeta Strongmalt - sheet

Kjeta Strongmalt - Background and Personality:

Kjeta Strongmalt grew up in Kubourg, to the West of Zobeck. Kubourg is notable among the dwarven communities in the Ironcrags, in that it isn’t near any rich mines; instead, it is a fertile valley where the finest hops and barley are grown and brewed into rich dwarven ales.

Kjeta was raised in a family of respected brewers, and relished her work. She had a gift for brewing beer (and enthusiasm for drinking it) that stood out, even among dwarves. Her life was going well, until a gang of selang (twisted satyrs) started making raids out of the Western Wastes to terrorize the hops farmers that surrounded Kubourg.

After several grizzly deaths, many farmers decided it was time to leave town, and others were holing up inside, letting their hops wither and die on their trellises.

Seeing farmers she care for die--and that the valley’s famous hops harvest was in jeopardy--Kjeta did the first thing that occured to her: she went dancing with friends, and got thoroughly lit. That night--after many pints--she turned to her friends and said, ”Whoa! I’m soooooo druuuuunk. Does anyone else hear Ninkash taaaaalking to them right now?


The First Miracle was that Kjeta awoke the next morning refreshed, and without any hangover. Thus emboldened, she gathered everyone together in the Great Beerhall and shared her vision. With a rousing speech--her voice booming supernaturally, her eyes beginning to swirl like a kaleidoscope--she cajolled and inspired the townsfolk. ”Can we let those killers push us out? No, we cannot! Can we let the hops wither in the field? Sweet Mother of Ales, NO!! We must face our fears, drive out those selang...and then celebrate and make merry in honor of Ninkash, who is always by our side!”

Together they managed to track the selang to their camp, kill most--with Kjeta battering them with her glowing tankard--and send the rest fleeing. The townsfolk carried Kjeta home on their shoulders, chanting about the Hero of the Hops.

More recently, Kjeta heard Ninkash’s call the spread the Good Brews within the bustling city of Zobeck. She arrived half a year ago--riding among her kegs on a wagon pulled by her donkey--and has quickly built a reputation as one of Zobeck’s finest brewers. She is becoming a noted presence at many street faires and performances.

While she lacks any of the typical schooling of an acolyte, it doesn’t stop her from quoting the teachings of Ninkash (as best she can remember them)...and for any flaws in her scholarship, she stands out as an excellent brewer, competent healer, friendly face of the faith, and potent channel of Ninkash’s divinity.

Personality Traits
* I enjoy the praise I receive. Maybe a little too much.
* I love to quote the teachings and proverbs of Ninkash...even if I can’t quite remember how they go.
* I strive to share my talents with as many people as I can.

* I always try to help those in need, no matter what the personal cost.

* There are people who are unable to protect themselves. I fight to protect those people.

* There's always time to raise a cup of ale, eh?
* I am inclined to think the best of a fellow brewers, even in the face of evidence to the contrary


FYI, In case it's helpful to yall, here's a cool, interactive map of Midgard (and a detailed map of Zobeck)

Thinking a bit more about Kjeta's background. As a folk hero, I imagine she emboldened some of the brewers and hops farmers around Kubourg to rise up against a local threat. I was just reading some in the Midgard World Book, to get to know the lore. I see that the Selang (dark satyrs) live in the Wastes to the west of the Ironcrags. I could see a group of selang and other twisted fey terrorizing the hops farmers on the outskirts of Kubourg, and Kjeta emboldening the dwarven villagers to fight back and not let the harvest be destroyed.

I'm happy to go with that...but let me know if there's anything you'd suggest instead that ties better to the campaign.

Otherwise, I don't know how useful a donkey and a wagon-full of kegs of the finest dwarven ales will be...but I couldn't resist. I suspect in the opening scene (if selected) Kjeta's enjoying the show but also running a booth where she shares the Good News and Good Brews of Ninkash, the Mother of Ales.

One practical question: what do you want in terms of pre-game crafting? It seems like the most mechanically relevant thing would be having made one's own armor or some healing potions at 1/2 price. Any limits you want to set there?

Alright, I used Hero Labs to create my sheet...and found that their ability to output all but a tiny % of the sheet in BBCode is broken. Happily, there was a custom HTML output option that's pretty slick.

GM Infinity, I hope this is OK for a sheet format. If not, please let me know. I can tweak the HTML if needed.

I've also created an official alias: Kjeta Strongmalt of Kubourg, Cleric of Ninkash

* Her name has changed since I first proposed her. The 'j' is pronounced like a 'y', and her name rhymes with Greta.
* I've added some traits / ideals / flaws, but expect to expand on them somewhat to give her a fully background
* Still need to finish equipment
* If you use the Paizo Campaign Tools Chrome extension, you can replace the default Paizo image for her with this one: https://jfry.github.io/gyrfalcon/kjeta-square.jpg

Comments and questions welcome!

Oh! And rolls...
Wealth: 1d10 ⇒ 7
HP: 6d8 ⇒ (4, 6, 7, 6, 6, 4) = 33

One more Q, if you don't mind:

I was just struck with the image of a reskinned version of Shillelagh except it has to be cast on a tankard instead of a stick, and would allow me to go knocking folks upside the head with my Holy Tankard.

The listed cantrip for Beer is Message...which is fine, but I figured I'd ask if you'd houserule "Tankardllelagh" (either in place of Message, or just as an option to choose for my list) just because it sounds too fun.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I better find myself a copy of XGE!

To clarify, does

Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses those supplies.

mean that (in circumstances where you (DM) say it makes sense) I can apply 2x my proficiency bonus when, say, sharing some of my *really special* ale while Persuading someone, or using my *very pure* alcohol to disinfect a wound?

If so, that seems like some beer any dwarf would be proud to brew!

Hey GM (or other experienced 5e players), the Beer domain grants proficiency with brewer's supplies, and then says "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses those supplies."

From what I've found in the PHB, I don't see any mention of making ability checks to craft at all. Is there anything I can read (or one of you can explain) about when I'd need to make a brewing check, and what ability score it's based off of? (I'm 100% fine if brewing beer is mostly about flavor and RP...but the language about doubling my proficiency bonus on checks makes me think perhaps there's more as well.)


This sounds great!

I'm still working on her, but I'll be submitting Braka Stoutwort, Cleric of Ninkash, and getting to try out Midgard's Beer Domain! She's a Cantonal (Hill) Dwarf, from the Canton of of Kubourg. Reference Image.

More to come!

Forgot to mention:

Hindering projectiles -
Your successful deadly shot leaves the weapon or ammunition used for the attack lodged in the wound, making it difficult for the target to move and react. The target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls, AC, and CMD; multiple uses of this ability stack, increasing the penalty by an additional -2 per projectile lodged in the target. The target may remove a single projectile as a move action, or may remove multiple as a full-round action

Does Psyche smell familiar to Bear? Realized that changes my post

Sounds like fun!

I'll be throwing in a Varisian Bard devoted to Shelyn. Draft fluff below. Feedback welcome!

I'll work on crunch over the next few days.

Can you share the template from the Campaign Tab as a doc (since you've already done to work of formatting it where you want things to be bold or italic)?


Oliveo Taragoš /oh-lee-VAY-oh Ta-ra-GOSHZ/ is renowned across all of Avistan, and into the vast Padishah Empire of Kelesh as a musician who can inspire armies to glory, melt the hearts of women and men, converse with songbirds, and (they say) make a stony sphinx weep with joy. Oliveo is known as well for his great devotion to Shelyn, and as a man of deep passions and big appetites.

To this day, in Qadira the Satrap himself will tell that--when feuding efreet and shaitans were engaged in a sprawling battle that was ravaging his kingdom--this lone wandering minstrel succeeded at brokering a truce between the warring factions. As a reward for making peace and ending the devastation (the Satrap will tell you) Oliveo was given a flying carpet out of the Satrap’s own stores.

In Lastwall, when an encroaching horde of frigid corpses with bloody claws marched out of the Hungry Mountains toward Vigil, the faith of the stalwart defenders started to falter and fall beneath the undead army’s frozen fists. Fortunately word came via songbirds to Oliveo, who was a rare invited non-elven guest musician in Kyonin performing The Starfall Sonnets on an outdoor stage in the enchanted Fierani Forest. He begged forgiveness of Queen Telandia for delaying the next week’s performances (for the Sonnets are written to be sung under the moon for six hours each evening for a fortnight) and--with the Queen’s blessings--flew through the night on the Satrap’s magic carpet. Oliveo arrived, concertina in hand, and with a rousing hymn to Shelyn he lead the vanguard to beat back the Whispering Tyrant’s servants.

There are less grand tales as well: tales that he’s quick to fall head over heels in love, tales of his legendary devotion to the Eternal Rose, who is his greatest muse, and even (if you ask for them) tales of his childhood in Varisia.

You see, Oliveo was born to a Varisian family that had put down roots in Korvosa. His mother Zora was a Cleric at the Sanctuary of Shelyn and his father Jerome was a local woodworker. Together they raised Oliveo in the city’s North Point district and taught their son to love the arts and beauty in all forms. With the blessing of the Eternal Rose, young Oliveo proved quite gifted at song, dance, and at playing the concertina. He can tell of his early dreams of a place in the grand Marbledome opera...and of his bitter rows with it’s director Touran Palastus (who found Oliveo as intolerable as Oliveo found him). Before his first season was over, Oliveo stormed off, bid his parents a teary farewell, and took to the road to pursue his dream elsewhere. He made his way to Taldor where he studied at the Kitharodian Academy in Oppara for many years, eventually achieving the distinguished title of Grand Master. Of course, he left and returned many times before achieving that highest honor: often traveling across the Inner Sea sharing the music he so loved, other times joining up with an adventuring band off to stop raiding ogres or--much later--an ancient black dragon that was terrorizing the Shackles.

Wherever he’s gone he’s worked to praise love in all forms, to bring beauty to the towns and villages he passes through, and to help those in need as he’s able. As he’s traveled, performing at venues both small and grand, his fame as a musician has grown...and he enjoys the fame and adoration he often receives from those who appreciate the arts.

* quick to fall in love,
* loves fame, great food, great drink, and great beauty in all of its forms,
* devoted to Shelyn,
* generous and big hearted

Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 150 lbs
Eyes: Amber, draconic
Skin: Olive
Hair: Black, long, free flowing under a Varisian scarf

Oliveo has a loose, easy demeanor and a warm smile that draws people in. He wears his hair long and flowing, and keeps his mustache waxed into a handsome handlebar. His eyes have no whites, instead being amber pools with a black pupil. He changes his attire frequently, but he generally chooses colorful, flowing outfits.

Thanks! Another question:

What do you think of at-will Alchemical Allocation as a superpower? Essentially, it would grant the ability to reuse potions indefinitely as long as I take 2 rounds to use it.

Hey GM Wolf, thanks for the answers. No worries about Spheres. I'll likely build Clara as a Alchemist (Mindchemist).

GM Wolf wrote:
gyrfalcon wrote:

1) The Druidic Herbalism Nature Bond Variant makes Druids into (in many ways) the Ultimate alchemists. Is that ability up for grabs, either as a Special from another class, or in place of a bonus animal companion?


1) The link did not get me to the variant

Sorry, there's no direct link to it. this gets you to the Nature's Bond section, and the first bolded section in it is titled Druidic Herbalism Nature Bond Variant (Optional). I'll quote it here for ease of review:


Druidic herbalism is a nature bond option that can be taken by any druid at 1st level except those with archetypes or alternate class features that alter or replace nature bond or mandate a specific nature bond choice.

Instead of granting access to a domain or an animal companion, a druid’s bond with nature can take a third form: access to druidic herbalism.

A druid who chooses to learn druidic herbalism can use combinations of nuts, berries, dried herbs, and other natural ingredients along with appropriate containers to create herbal concoctions or magic consumables that function like potions. This acts like the Brew Potion feat, but only for spells on the druid spell list. Herbal concoctions are typically thick and sludgy, and their creation time, caster level, spell duplication capabilities, and all other variables and properties are identical to those of potions created using Brew Potion. Herbal concoctions created with herbs that cause special effects when ingested retain those effects as well as the appropriate spell effect.

A druid can create a number of free herbal concoctions per day equal to her Wisdom modifier. Additional concoctions cost the same as creating an equivalent potion using Brew Potion. Druids can sell their herbal concoctions just as if they were potions (though NPCs unfamiliar with druidic herbalism may need some convincing before purchasing these wares).

At 4th level, a druid’s increasing skill with herbalism means that she can disguise the effects of her herbal concoctions. When a creature attempts a Perception or Spellcraft check to identify one of the druid’s concoctions, the concoction appears to be a different herbal concoction of the druid’s choice unless the creature exceeds the identification DC by 5 or more. The druid must designate this false result when creating the concoction. If a creature exceeds the identification DC by 5 or more, it correctly identifies the concoction, though not that the druid tried to fool it.

Additionally, at 4th level, when the druid creates additional concoctions, she need pay only half the normal cost to create them. It takes her only half the normal time to create her concoctions, and she can create concoctions of spells from any spell list, as long as she can cast the spell.

At 7th level, when the druid creates concoctions with potential false identification results, a creature attempting to identify the concoction must exceed the identification DC by 10 or more to determine the concoction’s true identity.

Additionally, at 7th level, a druid can create any herbal concoction in 1 minute. She can also create a special concoction of any spell higher than 3rd level that she can cast, but to do so, she must expend a spell slot of the same level. These special concoctions do not cost her anything to create and function like extracts created by an alchemist with the infusion discovery.

(Source: PZO9446, Pathfinder Player Companion: Healer's Handbook)

Hehehehehehehe! Indeed. :)

My ideas continue to bubble. Right now I'm leaning toward reprising a beloved gnomish alchemist of mine, Clara Flingflopsparkfizz.

Clara is great-great-great-great-granddaughter of Umbilicus Flingflopsparkfizz, one of the greatest alchemists of all time, and the inventor of the Ultimate Fizzy Drink. Umbilicus was bold and clever, and family lore tells that he once adventured side-by-side with Nivi Rhombodazzle himself, but the most glowing stories always return to his fabled fizzypops.

There's some debate in the family as to whether the Ultimate Fizzy Drink was best enjoyed as a beverage or thrown at one's foes, but all agree that it was zesty, uplifting, and very very fizzy.

Tragically, the original recipe for the Ultimate Fizzy Drink was lost years ago. Since then the Flingflopsparkfizz clan has worked frenetically -- but fruitlessly -- to try to replicate it.

Clarabibulus believes that her own father has gone about his Life Quest all wrong: staying at home, trying recipe after recipe. Great-grandpoppa Umbilicus adventured beside the The Grey Polychrome herself, and had clearly found interesting ingredients to add to his soda pop all across Golarion. Clara has vowed with a fizzy passion to succeed where previous generations have fallen flat. She's on a quest across the world to discover the legendary missing ingredients and create a new recipe to brew the Ultimate Fizzy Drink.

I could build her either as a Alchemist or as a Spheres of Might Scholar. Either way, she'd be a reasonable ranged fighter, a buffer (via infusions and potions), and--especially if Scholar is permitted--a healer as well.


So, some related questions:
1) The Druidic Herbalism Nature Bond Variant makes Druids into (in many ways) the Ultimate alchemists. Is that ability up for grabs, either as a Special from another class, or in place of a bonus animal companion?
2) Is it possible to change the stat associated with a borrowed 'Special'? e.g., could I use INT instead of WIS for this, if borrowed onto an alchemist?
3) Veering from crunch to fluff, a previous version of Clara had her background intertwined with Vecna (and her hand and eye). I know that Vecna's traditionally not part of Golarion canon. Do you have any interest in adding her to it? If not, it'll be easy to rewrite...but I figured I'd ask first.


5d6 - 1 ⇒ (4, 5, 1, 3, 3) - 1 = 15
5d6 - 2 ⇒ (2, 6, 3, 6, 2) - 2 = 17
5d6 - 1 ⇒ (1, 6, 6, 6, 5) - 1 = 23
5d6 - 2 ⇒ (2, 6, 4, 2, 5) - 2 = 17
5d6 - 1 ⇒ (6, 1, 2, 5, 1) - 1 = 14
5d6 - 3 ⇒ (6, 6, 6, 4, 3) - 3 = 22

Sweet! You mentioned 3rd Party as a possibility. What are your thoughts on Spheres of Might and/or Power? Or about Path of War?

I have a few ideas bubbling!

Cool, I'm looking forward to this...and think delaying a bit if good for me too.

Hi yall.

I'm back home from my travels, and then from a five-day camping trip over the long weekend.

I should catch up on gameplay today.


Will post later but don't forget Raging Song if useful to you

Zephyo wrote:

I have some questions about a custom Half-elf of Azlanti descent:

Assuming the FCB starts with the primary class of the tristalt, does multitalented allow the FCB of a second class? Would the feat that allows the FCB of all classes apply to the tristalt?

Humans of Azlanti descent have a +2 to all stats, according to some splat books. Could that be applied to a Half-elf, and if so what sort of cost would it have in the Custom Race builder?

That's already possible in the race builder:

Start with human (9)
Switch stats from human to flexible (+2), That covers 2/6 stats.
Now take Advanced for the other 4 (4*4=+16)

...so an Azlanti human would be 27 RP. An Azlantified halfelf would be 28 RP.

@Monkeygod Another Q that I think has been missed:
Given that you've offered a FCB for each gestalt class, for the (many) odd/custom races we're making, should we just pick and choose from any race?

Likewise, what about race-based traits and feats? Are they on or off limits for custom (and unusual) races?


BTW, I'm still having fun building up a Shaitan-like large earthgliding Striker...but also now playing with the idea of a Zealot (Void Prophet) | Skald | (TBD), who rocks out singing about The Void.

I'm thinking of using my artifact to get some of the Shaitan qualities I can't get through the race builder.

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Oh! I'd expected to keep monstrous PCs...but the more I think about it, the more I think that 41pt custom races + 38pt buy stats + trisalt + custom weird artifacts should really let me build just what I was thinking of...and I suspect it makes balance a good deal easier. The more I think about it, the more I like it!

From the Races section of the first post "custom races are allowed, up to the power level of a Noble Drow." ...and Drow Noble is a 41 pt race.

I don't think Monkeygod has said yet if one can start with a lower point buy race and add to them...but presumably that's implicit, since one could just say "I'm playing custom race that's a lot like a more powerful goblin or grippli or whatever".

Monkeygod, thanks for clarifying artifacts a bit!

I'm not sure I understand how your "First four(4) CR are free" would work. Let's say I build a [Shaitan (CR 7) / Fighter 7 | Striker 10 | Kineticist 10]

Previously you'd said he'd get racial HD = to CR...but if we still do that he'd end up with 14 HD. Are you now saying that HD = (CR -4)? Since he's an outsider, if I choose him as my "base" does he contribute 6 skill points / level for the first 7 levels (his CR?) or the first 3 (CR -4)?

And if you're saying I'd have the option to build him as a [Shaitan (CR 7) / Fighter 9 | Striker 9 | Kineticist 9]...how would that effect his total HD / Skill points / overall character level?

Honestly, I'm 100% fine with giving up HD = CR. In fact, for many creatures, it seems like a bargain. (Admittedly, the rules that you borrowed from leinathan give a heavy advantage to Outsiders and Monstrous Humanoids over Fey, since Fey usually compensate for their 1/2 BAB with more HD / CR...but given trisalt, it's not a big deal, since the Fey build can presumably choose one of their two full classes as their base.)

Another few Qs:
1) you give FCB for every class, which is fun. How should we do that for monstrous races, who don't have a FCB listed? (Choose from another race? Just take skill or HP x3? Have this rule only apply to nonmonstrous PCs?)

2) I think that one of the big questions for a game like this is balance. Based on comments about auditing the power level of artifacts &etc it sounds like you do want some amount of balance between the PCs. I think that's difficult to achieve with monstrous trisalt, without a bit more guidance. Do you want to recommend max (ability scores? AC? Saves? Spell/maneuver DCs?)

Personally, I'm perfectly happy to make changes after selection, if it helps to create a more fun, balanced party.

Another Q: how do you want to handle FCB for monsters?

Regarding Monster CR/HD, these rules give you exactly as many HD as you have HD.

Voice of Awesomeness wrote:

Monster Races:

In order to play a “monster” PC, you must give up some of your class levels - you give up a number of class levels equal to the CR of the monster you are, and you gain a number of racial hit dice equal to that same number of levels. You also gain all of the abilities given by that monster type, but you do not have to choose all of the same feats and skill ranks as the “standard” member of that race. Instead, you gain the same number of feat slots as a normal character of your level, and skill ranks/class skills according to the type of creature you are playing for every racial hit dice you possess. Treat it very similarly to multiclassing, except in order to play one of these creatures you must possess a certain minimum number of levels.

That will likely be a bigger disadvantage with some races, e.g. many fey make up for their 1/2 BAB and 1d8 HD with more HD per CR...and theoretically it could be an advantage for others, since I know there are at least a few races out there that have HD < CR.

By the way, Monkeygod one clarifying Q: many races that have HD > CR also have a caster level = HD (e.g. shaitan get CL 9 for SLAs. Do they keep the listed CL? Or drop that to match their CR (as we're doing with feats, HD, & skills granted)?

And another Q: can you clarify what you're going for with lesser artifacts? Here are two example printed lesser artifacts:
* Black Iron Axe - this is strictly better than a +12 equivalent weapon, which isn't possible to build in normal rules, but if it could be it would cost > 228,000 GP.
* Staff of the Magi - it would be much more complicated to cost this, but I suspect it would be way way more than the Axe.

Are these the power level you're thinking of? Or are you thinking more of the level of something like the "Batman's utility belt" example, which is way way lower in power.

Cool, interested!

Thron, Yeah, the Spheres content Jelani is including is all martial. (There is a great Spheres Illusionist class if you're curious,)

Jelani, Scholar doesn't give Trap as a bonus. Is it coming from a martial tradition you picked?

Nice! I think Scholar is a great class (and they are suprisingly good healers). You might want to check out the alchemy sphere for other ranged options. I really like the improved formulae. Check out the Scout sphere too, to take advantage of your INT in improving your to-hit and AC in combat.

I'll look forward to being the front line (and or sharing it with Stalwart)!

Jelani, I'm looking forward to the ways your experience with Asian cultures and languages will influence this campaign.

Anyone have any ideas about the character you're thinking about?

Note, if you have an idea for a character that's more about an image than a class, it might be possible within spheres. For example (if you missed the conversation on r20) Jelani was wishing there was a way someone could impale a foe with a spear, and swing them around at others, and I said "Oh, Spheres of Might" lets you do that. It'll also let you make interesting use of a wide range of combat maneuvers (including things like Bull Rush, that rarely are worth doing)...and a lot more.

Caveat: I've read the system and built some characters, but I've barely played with it so far, so most of my experience is theoretical or second-hand.

All I know so far is I'll use a Spheres class. Still considering any of building as a martial striker, defender, and / or tactician/buffer.


I'm definitely in, and am excited to play one of the Spheres classes.

For folks who're new to Spheres, I recommend:
Using Spheres of Might
and How to build a practitioner

You'll find that you can use it to build a very wide range of martial concepts that might be tough to pull off otherwise, including martials that can control, buff, or debuff (in addition to just hitting for damage)...all without feeling like casters.

If anyone wants to chat about the system, I haven't played it a ton, but I've built a handful of characters now.

Personally, I might go any of:
- Striker (mobile unarmed fighter, who gains 'tension' through being up close and personal, and uses that to various advantages)
- Sentinel (tanky defender with a variety of ways of punishing foes for trying to pass or ignore her)
- Armiger (versatile switch-hitter who trains with a variety of weapons, and masters different techniques with each)
- Commander (3/4 BAB character who buffs allies and debuffs foes through her tactics and shouts)

Other interesting classes:
- Blacksmith (full BAB + can improve the quality of her own and her allies' gear)
- Scholar (1/2 BAB INT-based martial, often with an emphasis on scaling improved versions of standard alchemical items, and/or traps, and/or beastmastery)
- Conscript (really just a bunch of tools to flexibly build your own martial class, if none of the above does what you're imagining)

Note that each class can be built a ton of ways, and that some of the talent spheres have more of an out of combat focus...but all of that's spelled out fairly well in the first two links above.

My experience: at first it felt a bit overwhelming, but after a bit of reading it clicked. I now think the system is quite elegant, and it does a great job of reusing existing Pathfinder rules wherever possible.


Oh! One more Q. I think you've said no to Spheres of Power. Does that also rule out Spheres of Might (the martial rules by Drop Dead Studios)?

I have a different concept for a Shaitan I'm playing with too, but it seems easier to build with SoM so I figured I'd ask!

leinathan wrote:
The gancanagh azata is a very charming idea, I like it.

Great, thanks!

Do you want to keep ability scores below a certain threshold? Or, more generally, what are your thoughts about how to--or not to?--balance PCs against each other?

Rolling ability scores is already somewhat swingy, since we'll end up with applicants with equivalent point buys between 15 to 40...but your monster character rules could allow much higher scores.

My current concept is a gancanagh devotee of Desna's aspect as The Tender of Dreams and The Great Dreamer, who was "born" in Cynosure, and from there defends the Dimension of Dreams from evil incursions. Crunch-wise, he'd be a PoW Zealot with an emphasis on the Sleeping Goddess domain. (If you allowed Drawbacks, he'd have sleepy too, but that part I can just roleplay.)

I started statting him up as follows:
Str 10 (12 -2 race), Dex 28 (21 +4 race +2 ABP +1 level), Con 18 (16 +2 race), Int 15, Wis 14 (12 +2 race), Cha 28 (21 +4 race +2 ABP +1 level)

...and realized that that'll allow a to-hit chance and maneuver DCs far beyond what non-monster characters can have. Is that going to be a problem? Do you want to set certain limits? Or should we just build as we wish within the rules you've laid out so far?


leinathan: whoops, yes I'd totally missed that one only gets HD = to CR.

Also looking at gancanagh azata

Thanks for giving us all a thorough review!

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