Sebecloki's Untitled Campaign

Game Master Sebecloki


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Unless previous experience is completely wrong, there's no chance we're getting more than 6 or so complete submissions; I don't think you'll need to worry about being able to play

EDIT: I should also probably add that the players from my Dark Sun game automatically get a slot. That would be monkeygod, hayato ken, and tyren. River of Sticks also gets a spot automatically b/c he's in another couple of games with me.


My blink dog will be utility as well as a skirmishing switch-hitter. I'm pretty set on that idea

My dusk kobold will be a healer with other magic thrown in for flavor. If someone wants that role they can have it. I'm just making a healer because no one else particularly mentioned wanting to make one except Anderlorn who preferred an archer concept.


I think I'm looking for 2-3 more players in addition to the 4 I'm automatically giving slots to. If everyone would like, you can present your character concepts via a quick fluff write up to me and I'll make selections based on that so you don't need to go through all the effort to make a character and not get picked.


Isnt there only like 3 of us here besides MG who is also one of the 4 getting a guaranteed slot?


Also, if I can successfully manage an alternate form of a disk kobold which I keep as a RP persona when required would I need to make a second character? I'm fine either way just wondering. As my blink dog has a good in character reason for being involved as-is


Tenro wrote:
Isnt there only like 3 of us here besides MG who is also one of the 4 getting a guaranteed slot?

I don't think this is going to be an issue, I'm just giving an answer since someone has asked more than once.


Tenro wrote:
Also, if I can successfully manage an alternate form of a disk kobold which I keep as a RP persona when required would I need to make a second character? I'm fine either way just wondering. As my blink dog has a good in character reason for being involved as-is

well, then everyone else who asked about playing something other than a kobold could ask the same, I'm left without a kobold party -- I think everyone who wants to play something else should make a kobold character as well to make it fair.


Sebecloki wrote:
Tenro wrote:
Also, if I can successfully manage an alternate form of a disk kobold which I keep as a RP persona when required would I need to make a second character? I'm fine either way just wondering. As my blink dog has a good in character reason for being involved as-is
well, then everyone else who asked about playing something other than a kobold could ask the same, I'm left without a kobold party -- I think everyone who wants to play something else should make a kobold character as well to make it fair.

sounds good, no argument just wondering.

with that said, will the PCs be involved concurrently? for instance, MG has stated that he wanted to choose between his mission-dependently, whereas i have no problems with playing mine at the same time. Does it matter to you? It doesnt matter to me i am just interested to know.


I'll let everyone pick to run 1 or 2 at the same time


Seb, should we boost up the Umbral Kobolds as a race to help put them on the same level as the Dark Sun races?

Also, as I will be playing a Moroi, could I give it a few levels of their racial class to help bring it up to power? Full disclosure, I plan on using my 10 'free' levels on their Noble Blood class as it is, so getting a few extra levels via a racial boost would be much appreciated.


I think the Dark Sun races are 19-24rp, if you'd like to propose changes to bring them up to the level of the conversion, document, I'm open to it.


This was the roundup last Friday:

First Apprentice to the Archmage
Chief Assistant to the Companion's Envoy to the Lands of the Well (this is the blink dog)
The First Sword of the King's Champion.
The Queen's favourite Spy-Assassin
The Foremost 'Lone-Wolf'/Free Investigator
Archer Initiate of the Royal Master Sniper

In this light, I am imagining an Ordained Warder and Sacred Shield who is dedicated to either Apsu (Paladin) or Tiamat (Antipaladin)… Which begs the question: how would a paladin play out, if at all, in this world? I’ve always had trouble with the narrow descriptions of alignments and this is particularly true when it comes to worlds such as these! A perfectly Lawful character could be true to terribly draconic and bloody rules? And a good character could be dedicated to his people while steadfastly and violently opposed to the enemy of his people?

How does the cult of Apsu play out in this environment? I assume that there is some semblance of peace between the Houses – that they vie for power and influence, but generally, remain civil? Long story short, one could imagine a situation – perhaps such as this one – that would require the King’s and the Queen’s agents to cooperate despite their inclinations?

Build to be determined, obviously. Would the Instrument of the Gods template work? What about Mighty?


Sebecloki wrote:
I think the Dark Sun races are 19-24rp, if you'd like to propose changes to bring them up to the level of the conversion, document, I'm open to it.

I broke down the Umbral Kobold via the race builder, and it's a whopping 10 RP.

I would give them shadow blending and shadow resistance for starters, which would boost them to 13.

Other than, I'm unsure. We could give them all of the various shadow themed racial traits, which would put them at 22, but I'm unsure if that's the way to go or not.

******************

I also broke down the Moroi, for a PC in a game I'm running, and it's actually an 8 RP race(roughly, as I had to ad-hoc a bit).

When we were talking at boosting the Yaksha for Hamza initially, one possible option was to give him levels in their racial paragon class.

Could I take 3-5 levels worth of class features(Ie, no BAB, saves, etc, just like if I took the gestalt HOP) of the Noble Blood class as a way to boost the Moroi?


also give them all these alternate traits free:

Venom: Through some quirk of evolution, or possibly the outside influence of other natives of Shadowsfall, some umbral kobolds possess specialized glands giving them the ability to spit mild venom once per day. This deep, inky black spittle can be spit up to 15 feet away and counts as a ranged touch attack. Those hit by the venom may save to avoid the effect (Fortitude DC 10 + the umbral kobold’s Constitution bonus); otherwise, they are blinded for 1d3 rounds. Additionally, these umbral kobolds gain a +2 bonus on Craft (poison) checks. This racial trait replaces the crafty racial trait.
•Shadowblooded: Some umbral kobolds are blessed (or cursed) with a deeper, more profound connection to the substance of their adopted homeland. As a result, they cast any spell with the shadow or darkness type at +1 caster level, but are impacted more harshly by strong sources of light. When exposed to sunlight or a daylight spell, they are blinded for an additional one round, and in areas of bright light they are nauseated as well as dazzled. This trait replaces the light sensitivity racial trait.
•Slink: Befitting their racial stereotype for fleeing at the first sign of danger, these umbral kobolds are swifter, slinkier, and more dexterous, but at the expense of the protective ability of their scales. These umbral kobolds gain a +1 bonus to their Dexterity and a +2 racial bonus to Stealth checks. This trait replaces the natural armor racial trait.


Monkeygod wrote:


******************

I also broke down the Moroi, for a PC in a game I'm running, and it's actually an 8 RP race(roughly, as I had to ad-hoc a bit).

When we were talking at boosting the Yaksha for Hamza initially, one possible option was to give him levels in their racial paragon class.

Could I take 3-5 levels worth of class features(Ie, no BAB, saves, etc, just like if I took the gestalt HOP) of the Noble Blood class as a way to boost the Moroi?

And what about the Moroi??


Monkeygod wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:


******************

I also broke down the Moroi, for a PC in a game I'm running, and it's actually an 8 RP race(roughly, as I had to ad-hoc a bit).

When we were talking at boosting the Yaksha for Hamza initially, one possible option was to give him levels in their racial paragon class.

Could I take 3-5 levels worth of class features(Ie, no BAB, saves, etc, just like if I took the gestalt HOP) of the Noble Blood class as a way to boost the Moroi?

And what about the Moroi??

is that equivalent to dhampir? give me a link


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My idea is to play that drow noble i had in mind for some time now.
Gonna put different templates on it, among them half-succubus.
That gives a change shape ability, therefore becoming a shadow kobold is no problem.
Probably might incorporate a shadow kobold servant via a feat as well. Maybe leadership or something else. That would be the second PC then.

I'm a bit confused about the classes and point buy right now.
Is that we start with 18 and then add 204 points?

And can someone link that disciple/hero stuff please?

Tending to say we pay the kinda feat tax for heroic grace, unless people go with paladin or antipaladin, what gives the same.
I will be heavily focussing on CHA, but definately need some more days.


Alias ad Tempus wrote:

This was the roundup last Friday:

The First Sword of the King's Champion.
The Queen's favourite Spy-Assassin

In this light, I am imagining an Ordained Warder and Sacred Shield who is dedicated to either Apsu (Paladin) or Tiamat (Antipaladin)… Which begs the question: how would a paladin play out, if at all, in this world? I’ve always had trouble with the narrow descriptions of alignments and this is particularly true when it comes to worlds such as these! A perfectly Lawful character could be true to terribly draconic and bloody rules? And a good character could be dedicated to his people while steadfastly and violently opposed to the enemy of his people?

Tempus, I was planning on going with Warder as well for the Champion, but that was mostly to give her Full BAB, manuvers, and Armigers mark as a debuff. Do your archetypes keep Armigers Mark? I can definitely look at other options. :)

My plan for the Champion is Full BAB (preferably something with Manuvers), Vizier, and Gestalt Unchained Rogue with 10 levels of the Umbral Blade prestige class taken from the 16 CR of templates/PrC.

For the Assassin, I'm still working that out; probably something like Tactician / Bard though? Focusing on buffing the group and debuffing the enemy from a ranged position.

I'd play one or both as needed, depending on the story and which ruler cared more about an outcome.


Yeah. The Armiger's mark is key. But I'm still trying to figure out how it could activate against very powerful – read potentially near-impossible to hit and damage – foes... Basically, I am trying to figure out how to aggro attacks. And survive, of course!

That being said, you were here first, so if you want to play Mr. De-buffer, I'll look elsewhere!

...And it would be interesting to have a both the King's champion and the King's guard on the bench!


As long as the debuffs stack, there isn't any reason to not have multiple debuff focused builds. The champion's debuffing is going to be centered around Debilitating Injury, Overpowering Guilt Psionic Power (Assuming that HOF Magic User can do a Psion progression and not just Arcane/Divine), and massive intimidation bonuses (should be -5 to -7 on demoralized enemies). I thought about Harbinger, but wasn't sure there'd be enough enemies to Claim to make a useful penalty.

Maybe Seb can chime in on whether we are likely to have one big baddie or multiple? I prefer Harbinger, but Armiger's mark was a better single target debuff. As long as someone else is wanting to go that route, I have no problem doing something differently.


Sebecloki wrote:


is that equivalent to dhampir? give me a link

Dhampir is actually 11 RP. The reason they are an 8 is because they have a thirst mechanic built in that penalizes them, but offers no benefit.

Moroi is not on the PFSRD, but they are the vampire equivalent of the Yaksha, from the In the Company line.

I could post their base stats, if ya want?


Monkeygod wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:


is that equivalent to dhampir? give me a link

Dhampir is actually 11 RP. The reason they are an 8 is because they have a thirst mechanic built in that penalizes them, but offers no benefit.

Moroi is not on the PFSRD, but they are the vampire equivalent of the Yaksha, from the In the Company line.

I could post their base stats, if ya want?

Yeah, let me take a look.


how many rp are the racial alternative traits I posted for the shadow kobolds?


River of Sticks wrote:

As long as the debuffs stack, there isn't any reason to not have multiple debuff focused builds. The champion's debuffing is going to be centered around Debilitating Injury, Overpowering Guilt Psionic Power (Assuming that HOF Magic User can do a Psion progression and not just Arcane/Divine), and massive intimidation bonuses (should be -5 to -7 on demoralized enemies). I thought about Harbinger, but wasn't sure there'd be enough enemies to Claim to make a useful penalty.

Maybe Seb can chime in on whether we are likely to have one big baddie or multiple? I prefer Harbinger, but Armiger's mark was a better single target debuff. As long as someone else is wanting to go that route, I have no problem doing something differently.

The combats are never going to involve just 1 boss without back up.


Then I definitely Prefer harbinger and claiming opponents to throw penalties out. I'll run with that over the Warder idea.


Moroi stats:

+2 Cha, -2 Wis

Undead, but they lack most of the benefits of this type, including a lot of the immunities.

Darkvision 60ft

Bite that deals 1d6 + 1 point of Con against either a helpless, willing,
or grappled creature.

They pick a family, which grants a minor boon, but also a curse.

Example: Vanguard A vanguard vampire gains weapon proficiency in any one weapon of their choice.

If a vanguard is successfully damaged with a confirmed critical hit from a magical wooden piercing weapon, the vanguard immediately becomes paralyzed and prone (no save). Ending the paralyzed condition requires removing the wooden object as a standard action.

They also have a thirst mechanic, that I mentioned above. They must consume 2 points of Con worth of blood for every 8 hours of activity in a day. If they don't and remain active for more than 8 hours, they become fatigued. If they hit another 8 hours of activity without consuming blood, they become exhausted.

There's more to the thirst, but that's the main jist.


Monkeygod wrote:

Moroi stats:

+2 Cha, -2 Wis

Undead, but they lack most of the benefits of this type, including a lot of the immunities.

Darkvision 60ft

Bite that deals 1d6 + 1 point of Con against either a helpless, willing,
or grappled creature.

They pick a family, which grants a minor boon, but also a curse.

Example: Vanguard A vanguard vampire gains weapon proficiency in any one weapon of their choice.

If a vanguard is successfully damaged with a confirmed critical hit from a magical wooden piercing weapon, the vanguard immediately becomes paralyzed and prone (no save). Ending the paralyzed condition requires removing the wooden object as a standard action.

They also have a thirst mechanic, that I mentioned above. They must consume 2 points of Con worth of blood for every 8 hours of activity in a day. If they don't and remain active for more than 8 hours, they become fatigued. If they hit another 8 hours of activity without consuming blood, they become exhausted.

There's more to the thirst, but that's the main jist.

What are the rp points for the kobold alternative traits I linked?

Here they are again:

Venom: Through some quirk of evolution, or possibly the outside influence of other natives of Shadowsfall, some umbral kobolds possess specialized glands giving them the ability to spit mild venom once per day. This deep, inky black spittle can be spit up to 15 feet away and counts as a ranged touch attack. Those hit by the venom may save to avoid the effect (Fortitude DC 10 + the umbral kobold’s Constitution bonus); otherwise, they are blinded for 1d3 rounds. Additionally, these umbral kobolds gain a +2 bonus on Craft (poison) checks. This racial trait replaces the crafty racial trait.
•Shadowblooded: Some umbral kobolds are blessed (or cursed) with a deeper, more profound connection to the substance of their adopted homeland. As a result, they cast any spell with the shadow or darkness type at +1 caster level, but are impacted more harshly by strong sources of light. When exposed to sunlight or a daylight spell, they are blinded for an additional one round, and in areas of bright light they are nauseated as well as dazzled. This trait replaces the light sensitivity racial trait.
•Slink: Befitting their racial stereotype for fleeing at the first sign of danger, these umbral kobolds are swifter, slinkier, and more dexterous, but at the expense of the protective ability of their scales. These umbral kobolds gain a +1 bonus to their Dexterity and a +2 racial bonus to Stealth checks. This trait replaces the natural armor racial trait.


I'm going to go ahead and open the discussion thread to start working on fluff. Ask me setting questions, particularly for your character or just stuff you want/need to know about, and I will answer.


The best way to handle those traits is for them to cost the same as the traits they're replacing.

Venom would be 7, and Slink would be 2.

Shadowblooded is trickier, because it replaces a weakness only. Which is actually incorrect, as they should get light blindness, not sensitivity.

The caster level increase effects both darkness and shadow spells, which is a pretty solid range. I would peg that aspect at 3 RP.

However, the negative aspects of Shadowblooded is actually much worse than light blindness. I say this is a -3 RP. Which would mean the whole thing is 0 RP.

I'm not sure that makes sense though, so I'm going to ask in the PFSRD group for advise.


I'm inclined to say we should add on all of that stuff with the shadow stuff from the race builder you suggested earlier. The shadowblooded trait works well for the setting, and will create some interesting challenges when you have to go to Athas for some reason.


My Kobold will be a sneak-attacking shadow spellcaster, with a smattering of buffs on the side.


Monkeygod wrote:

The best way to handle those traits is for them to cost the same as the traits they're replacing.

Venom would be 7, and Slink would be 2.

Shadowblooded is trickier, because it replaces a weakness only. Which is actually incorrect, as they should get light blindness, not sensitivity.

The caster level increase effects both darkness and shadow spells, which is a pretty solid range. I would peg that aspect at 3 RP.

However, the negative aspects of Shadowblooded is actually much worse than light blindness. I say this is a -3 RP. Which would mean the whole thing is 0 RP.

I'm not sure that makes sense though, so I'm going to ask in the PFSRD group for advise.

For the moroi, it would be good if we could find a way to boost them that didn't involve just giving traits from a racial character class, as that then messes up the ability of other individuals to take levels of that class.

Fluff wise, all I could figure out was that they're supposed to be like dhampir. Is that correct? So, the Athasian equivalent of a vampire is a Tliz. These are life-draining undead defilers. We should think about expanding the moroi powers along those lines. There is an entry for T'liz in the Secrets of the Deadlands pdf. I guess the fluff idea is that the free willed undead somehow interbred with mortals?


Sebecloki wrote:

For the moroi, it would be good if we could find a way to boost them that didn't involve just giving traits from a racial character class, as that then messes up the ability of other individuals to take levels of that class.

Fluff wise, all I could figure out was that they're supposed to be like dhampir. Is that correct? So, the Athasian equivalent of a vampire is a Tliz. These are life-draining undead defilers. We should think about expanding the moroi powers along those lines. There is an entry for T'liz in the Secrets of the Deadlands pdf. I guess the fluff idea is that the free willed undead somehow interbred with mortals?

Non Moroi can't take levels in the Noble Blood class. Nor can non Yaksha take levels in the Raksasha Paragon class, and so on for the rest of the In the Company race/class combos. It's a racial class, meant only for that race alone.

And no, they aren't like dhampir at all. They are vampires, but made into a player race. Think of them almost like half-vampires, while dhampir would be 1/4th or even less vampires.


I was only able to find this entry for the Tliz. Couldn't find that Secrets of the Deadlands product, nor was I able to find a Pathfinder conversion for them.


Monkeygod wrote:
I was only able to find this entry for the Tliz. Couldn't find that Secrets of the Deadlands product, nor was I able to find a Pathfinder conversion for them.

It's on Athas.org for free but it isnt called Secrets of the Deadlands but it's the only book that has Deadlands in the title. I found it when he told me to use Kaisharga instead of lich and I saw this in tliz too


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I thought of playing something with a more magic side this time.
My concern is : how do I keep spell damage and DCs on par?
The plan is to take elder mythos cleric, but the channel damage is really low.
Also healing. My build has 1k vigor points right now.
And will most foes have some attack me and take auto damage ability again?


DC should start off at at least 11, assuming for a 1st level spell. I'd say you're going to want to boost your casting stat up to +3. If you put the base at 50, that means finding +20 from somewhere--I'd look at the Christmas Tree and the Automatic Progression.
That'll put you at a 41. That already hits every single one of the projected weak saves on the monsters.
With Spell Focus, Mythic Spell Focus, and Greater Spell Focus, you'll get +4. So they're still passing on a 7, but it can be improved further. More on that later.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I got cha at 70 with a +30 right now.
Might make the save alright, but didn't affect spell or channel damage.


Divine abilities from the Disciple template can allow you to add an additional mental score to all DCs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Where can I find that template?

Looks like DC is fine, but spell damage stays "vanilla".
So what I'm looking for is something to up the spell and ability damage.
Like for elder mythos channeling damage and spells like fireball.


Ah. For spell damage, your best bet would be ways to add free metamagic for maximized empowered spells, and spells uncapped by HD; then take a caster PrC with some of your 16 CR allowance. I’ll double check the template and get back to you on that.


Just missed the edit window... I cannot find it on d20pfsrd, but if you google "immortals handbook ascension" it shows up.


Terrors of the Deadlands

Sorry, miss-remembered the name, here's a link.


Find a way to stack metamagic. Immortals Handbook:Ascension, the book we pulled out template from, and Rogue Genius Games, a 3PP pathfinder source, both have feats that can do this.
Take Intensify Spell.
Take Mythic Intensify Spell.
You should be able to scale up any blasting spell to whatever Caster Level you can reasonably hit, now, at the cost of spell levels. If you have a high-level spell you want to do this with, I'd advise using either Spell Perfection w/ a 9th-level spell, or Spell Perfection and the spell Shades.


Thinking it over last night, I would like to make a suggestion regarding the extra 16 levels for PrCs/Templates:

I believe only the first four levels should fully stack with our gestalt levels, meaning we would be 20th.

They would grant all their benefits including level based ones(such as feats, HOPF, ability score increases, etc).

Then, the other 12 levels would either grant only their class features, ala taking the HOP gestalt feat, or they would grant BAB, saves, HD etc, but they would not grant level based bonuses.

I realized that these 16 'bonus' levels could get rather confusing as to what exactly they grant, so I feel my above suggestions work best.

I also do not think it's a good idea for us to possibly get 10 extra HOPF, as well as all the extra feats that would come from having 10 full levels.

Now, I know Seb said he wanted the king & queen as well as maybe some other upper tier NPCs to be 20/20/10/10, so my suggestion would befor them to also have the +16 'free levels' so they could be anywhere from 21 HD to 36(no need to limit the NPCs on levels)


I definitely felt that HD-related bonuses should end at 16, so I agree there. Anything that scaled off of HD should stop with the 16 'true' levels.
I dunno if health will be an issue one way or another; if it will, I'd recommend treating the 16 'bonus' levels as being "virtual" HD. Basically it's literally just extra hit-points, with no scaling of abilities.

At the very least, that's what I've done. I've only calculated the Christmas Tree to level 16, the Auto Bonus Progression to 16+2, the HOP Gestalt/Prestigious stuff to 16, etc. etc., and I don't see any distinct drop-off in power.


Tyren Lourofesh wrote:

I definitely felt that HD-related bonuses should end at 16, so I agree there. Anything that scaled off of HD should stop with the 16 'true' levels.

I dunno if health will be an issue one way or another; if it will, I'd recommend treating the 16 'bonus' levels as being "virtual" HD. Basically it's literally just extra hit-points, with no scaling of abilities.

At the very least, that's what I've done. I've only calculated the Christmas Tree to level 16, the Auto Bonus Progression to 16+2, the HOP Gestalt/Prestigious stuff to 16, etc. etc., and I don't see any distinct drop-off in power.

This is what I have done as well.

EDIT: Depending on how the +BAB, HD, Skills, and Saves of the 16 CR class levels are ruled might exceed those, but I am not planning on it at this point.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I agree on this, i think we should only use "true" gestalt, meaning everything stops at level 16.
Everything else only provides abilities.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks of the tipps, i'm checking out that book right now.

There's some ridiculous feats lol.


i think i will drop my plan for a kaisharga dusk kobold as we have a lot of undead stuff going on, and probably make him a moon mage of the blue orb.

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