Kirthfinder - Sovalles

Game Master Kirth Gersen

You're in the city of Sovalles, now ruled by the Marquessa Mathilde d'Ansac, niece of the late Marquis Aujule d'Ansac -- it is in her household that your family now works.

Are the d'Ansac's the House Dairkal grew up in, or were they 'transferred' to the House after the rebellion?

Are the d'Ansac's the House Dairkal grew up in, or were they 'transferred' to the House after the rebellion?

If you read the description of the rebellion that I linked, that will help. It's less than one forum page, and some of the background there will come in handy. Everyone else is encouraged to look, if you get the chance; it'll tell you what you need to know about where we're starting.

LINK.

Eshkeval -- you'll be in Sovalles as well.
D'raholon will be sent to Paillard for a job I'll describe when we kick off the game.
Aemur -- can I put you in some caves near Paillard, or do you have a different preference?

I am good with Paillard.

On the skills, I thought the bonus from Favored terrain only applied in Favored terrain? Or is it because P. Mining would only be applicable underground in the first place?

Or is it because P. Mining would only be applicable underground in the first place?

It's too awkward otherwise -- imagine you chase a group of underground creatures up into the open air; you wouldn't suddenly forget what they were, for example.

Got it. So a favored terrain's bonuses, skill or otherwise, should generally apply, with the exception of the bonus to initiative (since that's an instant check)?

Got it. So a favored terrain's bonuses, skill or otherwise, should generally apply, with the exception of the bonus to initiative (since that's an instant check)?

No; most of the skills bonuses apply only within that terrain, as applicable. The only time favored terrain bonuses are universally applicable is when it's absurd to restrict them to the terrain, such as Profession (mining) skill, or the speak with animals ability for forest terrain, for similar reasons.

Hmm...I just noticed that, aside from me, everybody else is heavily focused on melee. Our party consists of the following:

--> A Lycanthrope
--> A Rogue
--> A Fighter
--> A Ranger

...and me, an Archivist. Aside from the Rogue, whose list of skill tricks is somewhat limited, I'm the only source of magical power for the entire team. Luckily, I'm going for more of a support build and I also have the Magic Domain to pick up Arcane Spells if needed, but I am a little trepidatious since this is my first time playing a real Kirthfinder full caster.

I would be a whole lot less scared if more of you guys had some decent ranged options, though. My ranged damage...leaves much to be desired.

Is it reasonable to ask for characters to be finalized by Monday?

Yeah, I'm really hoping people pick up some decent ranged weapons. As it is, if an enemy can attack you from, say, across a 30-ft. ravine, you all die.

I am good with Paillard.

If you wanted to be from the same house as Dairkal, I'm good with that, too -- not sure if you two ever decided on that.

Yeah, I'm really hoping people pick up some decent ranged weapons. As it is, if an enemy can attack you from, say, across a 30-ft. ravine, you all die.

I feel like we're being warned here...

Dropping 1 makes me a skilled professional, which sounds about right.

Starting Gold: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4
4 * 15 = 60 gp

Also I have no idea why this post is before the post where I roll my social check.

I'm gonna leave Comeliness as nebulous. I don't think it's an important stat. I will, however, roll for social class, since that will factor into whatever backstory I come up with for my character.

4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6, 1) = 14

Kirth,

Can you explain the Numen system please? I sorta get it, but I wanna make sure I fully understand it.

I home there's no hard feelings, but I feel like I should bow out of this one and give my place to another interested party. I don't have any experience as a player in PbP and I'm trying to sort out a couple of games I run, and am trying to run, and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to plan a character for this too. I do think this is a really great system.

Kirth, Can you explain the Numen system please? I sorta get it, but I wanna make sure I fully understand it.

Be happy to, although I fear I won't be any clearer than the babble I wrote in that part of Chapter 6.

The deal is, instead of you selling loot and then buying the stuff you want within some arbitrary wealth-by-level, I cut out the middleman and just let you find what you want within that limit. Any masterwork or magical gear priced up to "par" is obtained at your discretion and has whatever properties you want as long as the total cost is within that amount -- there's a whole lot of guidelines and examples, and an even larger number of examples in Appendix 6A. You get to decide where it came from, what significance it has to you, and so on.

Any other stuff that you find or craft comes out of your "overflow" instead, so you've got two "pools" of numen to keep track of.

Your numen is based on your personal power, and mundane gear and gold pieces don't count -- so you can potentially acquire fortunes, or blow tons of money on castles and such, and not be any worse off in terms of gear.

If you have specific questions about this or any other aspect of the house rules, ask them at any time -- I'm happy to help!

I home there's no hard feelings, but I feel like I should bow out of this one and give my place to another interested party.

Understood. Thank you for your interest, and for your courtesy!

Are the d'Ansac's the House Dairkal grew up in, or were they 'transferred' to the House after the rebellion?

EDIT: My previous response assumed that "they" was referring to the d'Ansac family. If "they" meant Dairkal, that's up to you.

Okay, cool. So the gold I rolled for earlier has no bearing on the gear I can purchase? And I can have any amount of mundane gear, or does that come out of my gold piece total?

I'm guessing both alchemical items, and masterwork stuff does not count as mundane right? Would masterwork tools and kits affect numen?

Okay, cool. So the gold I rolled for earlier has no bearing on the gear I can purchase? And I can have any amount of mundane gear, or does that come out of my gold piece total?

If you choose to roll for gold, you spend that gold to get your mundane gear. The other option is to assign mundane gear that probably costs less gold than you would normally start with, ask the referee if it's reasonable, and assume you have a few silvers left over afterwards.

I'm guessing both alchemical items, and masterwork stuff does not count as mundane right? Would masterwork tools and kits affect numen?

Correct. Alchemical items are, in essence, potions; most of them are included in Appendix 6A. For masterwork stuff,

Masterwork Items: In these rules, masterwork items are priced in exactly the same way that magic items are; see “Enhancement Bonuses,” below.

So, yes, masterwork items do require numen.

Aemur Farstride wrote:

I am good with Paillard.

If you wanted to be from the same house as Dairkal, I'm good with that, too -- not sure if you two ever decided on that.

We didn't make a decision. It could be cool to have a dynamic duo type of relationship, but I'm open to whatever would best fit the story start.

We didn't make a decision. It could be cool to have a dynamic duo type of relationship, but I'm open to whatever would best fit the story start.

That decision won't materially impact anything I have in mind.

Well, that's a slight bummer regarding rolling for gold vs not, but I feel like having a score in social class fits the overall concept of the character than not having it.

Regarding mundane gear, unless I'm missing something, the equipment section only covers armor and weapons.

Are we allowed to use PF books for stuff like skill/class kits, tools, etc?

Would gambling be covered under Slight of Hand, Profession(Gambler), both or something else?

Are we allowed to use PF books for stuff like skill/class kits, tools, etc?

Would gambling be covered under Slight of Hand, Profession(Gambler), both or something else?

Depends. Poker can be resolved using Bluff, because that's what it boils down to. Chess and other strategy games might use Knowledge (Warfare). You could pick Profession (gambling) and apply it to all gambling games. Games of pure chance might just be a random die roll.

Sleight of Hand would be for cheating -- mechanic's grip, dealing from the bottom.

Hey Kirth, is a general Kirthfinder discussion thread? I'm thinking of running a game using the rules with my IRL friends, and there's some stuff I would like to as, but could have already been answered lol

Kirthfinder Discussion Thread

There's a lot there, spanning multiple versions of development. The basic goals and intentions for the system are the same throughout, though, so it's still informative.

Dairkal - You still have a 1st level skill trick to choose.
Also, I calculate AC 18, touch 18, flat-footed 15, and CMB +2.

Thanks!!

Everyone else, please try and finalize your PCs. It looks as if we've filled the slot that Sebecloki left, so we're almost ready to go! For those who missed it, here's a 30-second summary of the entire campaign setting:

I'll cross-post it in the campaign description.

I'm assuming the default cosmology for Kirthfinder is The Great Wheel/Blood War/etc?

Are any other specific gods, fiendish/celestial powers, etc present in the setting at all? Like from Faerun/Golarion?

I'm assuming the default cosmology for Kirthfinder is The Great Wheel/Blood War/etc?

We skew more towards an Amber cosmology, where the Abyss of the Courts of Chaos is the D&D Abyss. All the planes in the D&D "great wheel" are of course shadows somewhere, so we use that framework sometimes, too (like a wave/particle duality) -- with the Concordant Opposition being a true manifestation of the Dark Tower only hinted at by King's novels. The damage to the Pattern of Amber is mirrored by the breaking of the Beams.

Always thought the "Blood War" was bloody silly, so we don't do that.

Are any other specific gods, fiendish/celestial powers, etc present in the setting at all? Like from Faerun/Golarion?

In Aviona, Greyhawk gods are fair game, Moorcock's elemental and animal gods (Grome, Fileet, et al.) are all used, and Elven deities are mostly OK. When there's a lot of overlap, we often assume two similar gods are different aspects of the same entity (e.g., Myhriss and Hanali Celanil are the same being, appearing as different in aspect to the different races). A lot of wood elves are druidic and don't revere any specific gods, or worship more than one, or whatever. We equate Rillifane Ralathil with the Oak King, a power of nature.

The Norse gods get a lot of worship in Northwind.

If that's not enough choices, it's possible to make up your own god for your PC. In one of the home games, Silverhair invented an entire pantheon of dwarven gods, since I didn't know anything about the pre-published ones and didn't mind.

Given the cosmology, some characters worship the Unicorn or the Serpent of Chaos. There are shadows with their own pantheons, of course -- gods who can only grant spells in that vicinity of Shadow. So you might find a whole world where they worship the Hindu pantheon, or the Greek one, and those gods are real, but don't interact with Aviona at all, so it's pointless to worship them there. The reverse also holds -- in some stretches of the multiverse, most of the gods worshipped in Aviona have no influence.

Re: Golarion gods, I mostly think they're silly, but allow them if an explanation can be found. For example, in one of the PBP games, someone wanted to worship Iomidae (Sp?); we simply declared her an aspect of the same entity represented by Heironeous (and even claimed a distant etymological similarity, based on how we we pronouncing them). In one of the home games, Andostre wanted his PC to worship that evil Hamburger or Nobgobbler or whatever Golarion god that is, but his character was from Bailakash, so we just assumed he was one of their local gods and rolled with it.

A whole collection of fiendish powers are listed in the Cleric "Unspeakable Cults" appendix, and you can see the whole "this god is essentially the same being as these other ones" thing there.

---

So, in summary, almost anything can be worked in, but it may require some creativity to make them fit.

Almost-complete draft of my character.

Coming up a bit short on ways to spend mojo for someone who doesn't need weapons or armor? Is it valid to give my wand +1 attack or damage?

Beyond that I think I just need languages, one more spell (probably a non-seed), and a name.

Still not 100% sure what to do for my backstory.

From what I gather, my character would have grown up in the city of Sovalles sometime during d'Ansac's Rebellion. This rebellion was sparked by political unrest sowed by the classic evil vizier to the King, Palamis -- high priest of Graz'zt.

Art is a useful tool for conveying emotions, and art related to civil unrest and rebellion can at times be quite provocative. The fact that this rebellion was caused by a priest could also elicit an anti-religious fervor that could also be captured by art.

However, it's hard for me to write Eshkeval as "detached," if he's making provocative art pieces abut war and rebellion, so maybe I'll just have him draw provocative anti-religious art where man is shown to conquer both gods and demons.

Of course, he's just a halfway decent artist at the moment, so he's not likely to garner much attention or notoriety...for now.

As for his family life, it's easy for me to claim he's a ward of the state, given the tumultuous times leading up to his campaign. And he likely would have been raised in a highly religious orphanage whose teachings of servitude and complacency he disagrees with.

Hmm...maybe he ran away from the orphanage, and decided to focus on his favorite pastime - art. He would have been the classic starving artist trope, played literally to a T, until he remembered a lesson he learned in his religious orphanage about the strength of devotion to a singular cause or belief.

Putting this lesson to the test, he decided to believe in the power of his art, and drew an apple that was so real, it fell off the page and provided him with sustenance. That was his first foray into the wonderful world of magic, and with basic food and water expenses covered, he could spend his limited money on furthering his art, as well as on furthering his skill of spellcraft.

In time, he would even come to rent a home, all at the young age of 18. I guess that's a decent enough backstory; what do you guys think?

I guess that's a decent enough backstory; what do you guys think?

Works for me. As an aside, the sorcerer's Artistry bloodline was made for stories like this (and could easily be adapted into an Incarnate mystery), but you've gone to considerable effort to cobble out a different set of mechanics, and I'm fine with that, too.

Is it valid to give my wand +1 attack or damage

Yes.

As for items, I'd like to use my gold/numen to add a +2 bonus to my spellcraft checks. In regular Pathfinder, the cost of a masterwork item giving a +2 bonus to skill checks is 50 gp IIRC, but in Kirthfinder, getting an enhancement bonus to a skill is 400 * bonus squared, so 1600 gp.

If I decided that I only wanted the spellcraft bonus for a specific use, the cost is halved to 800 gp, but since that's more than par for this level (500 gp), that means I can't use "mana from heaven" to attach it to my holy symbol, right?

I just want it to get a +2 on spellcraft checks for the purposes of applying metamagic to prepared spells. If I have it, I can take 10 when I prepare a metamagic'd version of a spell and automatically succeed for spells of this level.

What do you think, Kirth?

Almost-complete draft of my character.

Looks good! I've copied your stat block here and included some recommendations: corrected hp (4 class + 1 Con + 4 Toughness), listing Urgent Shield as a SLA per Ch. 5, pre-modifying your mage armor with Personal Spell and Extend Spell so that it lasts 2 hours/level, selecting High Elvish as one of your languages so that you understand the people in Aviona when they talk to each other. I left spell save DCs out of the main parentheses because eventually they will all be different depending on the school and descriptor of the spell.

If I decided that I only wanted the spellcraft bonus for a specific use, the cost is halved to 800 gp, but since that's more than par for this level (500 gp), that means I can't use "mana from heaven" to attach it to my holy symbol, right?

Correct.

I just want it to get a +2 on spellcraft checks for the purposes of applying metamagic to prepared spells.

That's a specific use of Spellcraft, so, yes, it costs 200 * bonus squared.

What do you think, Kirth?

Suggestion 1: Start off with a +1 bonus instead of +2, and use discretionary mojo as you'd planned.

Since my holy symbol is a modified paintbrush as I described previously, could I use Craft (Fine Arts) in order to make it?

Alternatively, could I craft a picture that gave me a +2 to spellcraft checks for prepared spells?

My spellbook is basically going to be a portfolio of my art pieces, with each new spell I learn being represented as a piece of art in the in the book. When I prepare spells, I basically create an energy copy of each spell I want to use; these energy copies would be in the form of a deck of cards (so effectively, my spellbook is a Card Binder).

I could preface my spellbook then, with a piece of art or insignia that gives a +2 to spellcraft checks, but only for the purposes of spells prepared from that book.

Would that be acceptable?

Would that be acceptable?

In the interest of reducing the number of dice rolls during play, let's go with it!

Okay, I think I've taken care of all of the major spellcasting hurdles I could run into.

I can apply metamagic onto my spells without issue, and I can pull out material components as a free action, so I only need 2 partial actions (somatic & verbal + directing the spell), rather than 3 (which would eat into next round's actions).

Any other potential pitfalls that I may be missing? If not, I think I'm basically 100% done.

Vil-hatarn wrote:

Almost-complete draft of my character.

Looks good! I've copied your stat block here and included some recommendations: corrected hp (4 class + 1 Con + 4 Toughness), listing Urgent Shield as a SLA per Ch. 5, pre-modifying your mage armor with Personal Spell and Extend Spell so that it lasts 2 hours/level, selecting High Elvish as one of your languages so that you understand the people in Aviona when they talk to each other. I left spell save DCs out of the main parentheses because eventually they will all be different depending on the school and descriptor of the spell.

** spoiler omitted **

Does pre-modifying mage armor preclude me from preparing the augmented (+5 AC) version in my 2nd level bonus slot once that becomes available, since it's no longer just the seed?

Is the bolt of force seed actually level 0? Chapter 8 has it at wizard2/evoker1...

Think I'll just take light as my last seed.

Language and hp are good, think I must have applied Toughness twice.

Think I'll use my mojo to make my wand +1 attack, and I'll use craft(alchemy) to start with a stock of alchemist's fire as a backup weapon.

Copying over a few questions I left in the recruitment thread:
1) doesn't at-will Urgent Shield at level 6 more or less negate the usefulness of the abjurer's wand level 6 ability (figuring I won't have much other use for immediate actions)? Any chance that could be switched out for either Unskittering Spell, Penetrating Spell, or Irresistible Spell applied to the blast?
2) I appear to be unable to use sudden shield until level 2 since BAB+0 receives no immediate actions?
3) how should I apply the magic missile-specific benefits of the class (bonus missiles, force specialization, and reflective shield)? I'm fine taking a feat in place of reflective shield, not sure how to handle the others.

Might swap out Spell Focus for Imbue Item, it'll be a while before I get much use out of it. Might switch lore for linguistics as well, cover all my crafting bases...

Working on some more characterization and such today, will post that and updated stats later.

1. Does pre-modifying mage armor preclude me from preparing the augmented (+5 AC) version in my 2nd level bonus slot once that becomes available, since it's no longer just the seed?

2. Chapter 8 has it at wizard2/evoker1...
3. Think I'll just take light as my last seed.
4. Think I'll use my mojo to make my wand +1 attack, and I'll use craft(alchemy) to start with a stock of alchemist's fire as a backup weapon.
5. Doesn't at-will Urgent Shield at level 6 more or less negate the usefulness of the abjurer's wand level 6 ability (figuring I won't have much other use for immediate actions)? Any chance that could be switched out for either Unskittering Spell, Penetrating Spell, or Irresistible Spell applied to the blast?
6.I appear to be unable to use sudden shield until level 2 since BAB+0 receives no immediate actions?
7. how should I apply the magic missile-specific benefits of the class (bonus missiles, force specialization, and reflective shield)? I'm fine taking a feat in place of reflective shield, not sure how to handle the others.

1. I'd let you do Augment it.

EDIT: See how this looks:

5. Looking at the Argent Savant again, I'm going to need to update a lot of it, because it was adapted straight from 3.5 before the spells construction rules were finalized. I suspect a lot of other KF stuff from before that time will also have to get updated.

6. See #5.
7. See #5.
I'll get right on it. Thanks!

Appreciate it! I'm assuming it's reasonable to take bolt of force as a level 1 spell similar to the evoker?

Kirth Gersen wrote:

5. Looking at the Argent Savant again, I'm going to need to update a lot of it, because it was adapted straight from 3.5 before the spells construction rules were finalized. I suspect a lot of other KF stuff from before that time will also have to get updated.

6. See #5.
7. See #5.
I'll get right on it. Thanks!

Appreciate it! I'm assuming it's reasonable to take bolt of force as a level 1 spell similar to the evoker?

Yes. For you, it's bolt of force (2nd level) + Restricted Spell ([force] specialization or evoker; -1 level) = 1st level.

Vil-hatarn wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

5. Looking at the Argent Savant again, I'm going to need to update a lot of it, because it was adapted straight from 3.5 before the spells construction rules were finalized. I suspect a lot of other KF stuff from before that time will also have to get updated.

6. See #5.
7. See #5.
I'll get right on it. Thanks!

Appreciate it! I'm assuming it's reasonable to take bolt of force as a level 1 spell similar to the evoker?

Yes. For you, it's bolt of force (2nd level) + Restricted Spell ([force] specialization or evoker; -1 level) = 1st level.

See also edits to other AS abilities spoilered above.

That all looks functional, looking forward to Ray Splitting!

My only remaining quibble is the overlap between at-will sudden shield (gained at 6th level) and the 6th level abjurer's wand ability (1-round shield after eldritch blast). Any chance I could substitute Unskittering Spell applied to the blast instead, or is that too powerful?

My only remaining quibble is the overlap between at-will sudden shield (gained at 6th level) and the 6th level abjurer's wand ability (1-round shield after eldritch blast).

See edits; you'd be using the Evocation wand ability instead.

With regards to the question about deities, I was experiencing severe deja vu in writing it, so I went lack and looked in Chapter 1, and found this:

If not, I think I'm basically 100% done.

Go ahead and populate your alias profile for Eshkeval, then.

** I'm hoping to start game play on MONDAY. **